KotoR 3: Ideas, Suggestions, Discussion

[James Dunn]

To the last post by Markaela,

 

Now those are some good ideas. I would like to be able to explore areas that maybe have nothing to do with the story but maybe a side quest. Some of this I think is a matter of imagining a real city or world, would they have a space port with only 1 place for ships to land? In both K1 and K2 they had these people come up and say "You can't land here" but I couldn't move it eather.

 

And yes to ejecting party members you don't want!

 

I would say more about the Ebon Hawk but I thought it was cool and didn't care that they reused it. But if they did that again...

 

I want to be able to be a Jedi from the start of the game. And have a lightsaber. It doesn't seem right to have a Jedi wothout a light saber or a Jedi that "can't build one". I understand that they didn't want you to get your hands on something too powerful too early but a Jedi running around with a sword and force powers!?!?

 

Also the PS3 should be out in another 2-3 months (unless there is another delay )

 

I didn't like action RPGs as much. I seem to view it as a matter that I an not a Jedi, but I expect my char to be (thats is why I think it is so cool). Setting it up so that when I click the left mouse button my char swings his light laber looks cheesy and brings what we expect in a Jedi down what we can control in real time. But we know that a Jedi is more than your average guy and expect more. Not to mention that if you feel a little slow today...

 

But also understand that I toot no horns for turn based systems as it can look a little fake too. I do think it is workable as you still get to see the cool Jedi that uses the force powers with the finess of the Jedi, and who can stay in control of situations that would other wise seem impossible.

Edited September 1, 2006 by James Dunn

[Pop]

As far as the Ebon Hawk goes, I'd prefer that it stays in, as does T3. They're both what I'd consider KOTOR touchstones. They tie the series together aesthetically. Having only the Ebon Hawk makes sense, as it's the fastest ship in the Galaxy, and that allows it to outrun interceptors, and hence eliminate the need for dogfight sequences so common to Star Wars. The space-defense minigame was akward enough as it is, I certainly don't want more instances of it, and if it wasn't absolutely necessary (there's no reason it has to be a participatory cutscene) I'd just nix it altogether. I want to play Knights of the Old Republic, not Star Wars Battlefront.

 

As for non-vital "dungeon"-esque worlds and locations, I don't like the idea. KOTOR is about story, and sending the PC to do things that don't advance the narrative causes the game to lose momentum. Let's also remember that KOTOR doesn't have the strongest combat system, comparitively, and there isn't a big emphasis on item-hoarding. You can easily get through the game without having to put an effort into getting the best loot.

 

As for letting PCs be something other than jedi, let's face it: Star Wars is about the Jedi. It always has been. Taking the focus off of them would most likely be a detriment to the game narrative, if not the gameplay itself.

 

As for kicking out annoying or ill-fitting party members, I know how irritating some of the CNPCs were, but keep in mind that being able to axe characters would probably harm the role-playing aspect of the game. Most people would only take the strongest party members (some do that anyway) and never have a chance to explore characters back-story, etc. Chris Avellone talked a bit about this, you all remember.

Edited September 1, 2006 by Pop

[Xard]

How can lucas arts cancle one of the msot if not the most anticipated game that all the fans are working on. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

[Markaela]

It seems to me, that by your post Pop, you prefer linear to non-linear games. Some do, some dont, I prefer the ability to explore strange new worlds. Not everything needs to be essential to make the game valuable to players. I would also like to see a few hidden quests, one's that only go into effect if you do a sequence of events. Such as the HK factory, after recieving hints from HK-47. Not necessary to complete the game, but something that is unlocked after intimate background or storyline from party members. (It was fairly upsetting that you couldnt enter the factory after learning of its existance, except in a Tester's save download)

 

As for the Ebon Hawk... It isnt that I disliked it, I would just like the ability to have more then a single ship throughout the game. A novel idea, I understand, but an added variety of ships/items add to gameplay. I admit that the cutscene fighting ship to ship in the turret could be annoying when it happened often. It did add a touch of realism, however. Personal combat is the majority of the game, and some people like a touch of space battle to complete the 'feel' of the atmosphere.

 

It's true that you can win the games with very few weapons, you dont even need a lightsaber in 1 or 2, once you have Force Storm. The only thing the lightsaber was useful for at that point, were the bonuses that the crystals gave. All robes could look identical, give set or no bonuses and the game could still be finished.

 

While it is true that Jedi are considered the primary factor in the games, other characters add to the true feeling of the galaxy. As I said before, the option to choose would be nice. You begin with your choice of Jedi, Sith, or non-force toons. You get to choose stats or hit a random roller, choose sex, alignment, character heads, skin tone, etc. Added features could be robe style, color, or outfit (for non-force users) As for starting without a lightsaber, it was a pain to assemble one in 2, and if you didnt follow the step by step, you ended up nearly halfway through the adventure before you even had your first lightsaber.

 

I liked the advancing to Prestige classes in 2, but it would also be nice to be able to advance your followers to Prestige classes as well.

 

Also, my personal feelings... I know it wont happen, because there are too many whiners out there, but they shouldnt have strategy guides or walkthrough/hint books the same day the game hits the stores. Back when I got my first computer around 1985, clue books didnt show up for many games until most people had played it once through. Not all, some games had them, but not many. I played the Bard's Tales and AD&D gold box series with graph paper, and got lost many, many times due to spinners, darkness, teleporters, etc. But it was all in good fun.

 

 

Markaela

[Dark Wastl]

The story is the most important thing in the KOTOR-games, so I'd like to have a reason to be on a certain planet. Would seem a bit strange, if you are supposed to fight over the fate of the galaxy, most likely not having much time, and you go hunting some gizkas on a backwater planet instead of fighting the war.

 

As for being able to play as a non-Jedi, I don't think so. The game is called Knights of the Old Republic for a reason.

Your character wouldn't be able to beat the real badguy. A strong character might be able to beat a random Jedi, but when it comes to the really powerful ones, they have no chance whatsoever. Just look at Jedi Knight II, if you want so see what happens when a non-force user fights a powerful force-user.

Besides, if you have Jedi in your crew, they would be more poweful than your character. That might be nice, from a certain point of view, but it would lead to the question why you would fight the main badguy instead of them.

[Pop]

In response to Markaela, I like both linear and non-linear RPGs, so long as both can be compelling. Fallout was pretty non-linear and was very compelling, Morrowind was non-linear and was not so much so. KOTOR is linear and compelling, Icewind Dale, not so much.

 

The problem is that when you make a non-linear RPG you need to account for many, many possible variables to make things meaningful. You'll want a human character to have a vastly different experience than a twi'lek character or a wookie character. One of the ways you can do this is through writing out different gameplay arcs and experiences for each of them. For example, in Vampire: The Masquerade, nosferatu characters had to go about the game in a different way because humans wouldn't speak to them, etc. This is time-consuming but ultimately rewarding if it's done right. Another way is to reduce character interaction to numerals so that the difference between different PCs can be easily calculated, as Oblivion does. A shopkeeper would like an orc character less than an elf character, not because the shopkeeper has any reason or pathos behind not liking orcs and liking elves, but because orcs have lower personality scores than elves do. The fact that you were an orc had no bearing on the game whatsoever other than that. And even all that didn't matter, because you could bribe any NPC into liking you. That's the antithesis of RPG character interaction. If you're going to put choice into an RPG, why make those choices arbitrary?

 

So that's the reason why making race and other ships and such non-choices is a sound idea. OE will either have to spend months making those changes meaningful, or make them completely meaningless. personally, I'd like to just see more in-game difference between consulars and guardians and sentinels, instead of them all just being general Jedi with different abilities. Add in some class-specific quests and story arcs, like in BG2. Maybe a guardian can command a defending army. Maybe a consular can advise a king in vital decisions. Maybe a sentinel can go out and investigate a hidden threat to a town. I'd much rather have these kinds of concrete differences in a game, rather than arbitrary race.

 

I know it wont happen, because there are too many whiners out there, but they shouldnt have strategy guides or walkthrough/hint books the same day the game hits the stores.

I think Gamespot and places like that have strategy guides up the day of a game's release, if not within the week. Oblivion shipped with a strategy guide.

 

And as for Jedi and Sith within the game, I think it would be much more interesting if instead of giving the protagonist the choice not to be a jedi, you make the primary antagonist a non-force user, someone who is powerful (and threatening) for some reason other than mastery of the force.

[Revan1127]

And as for Jedi and Sith within the game, I think it would be much more interesting if instead of giving the protagonist the choice not to be a jedi, you make the primary antagonist a non-force user, someone who is powerful (and threatening) for some reason other than mastery of the force.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

In my opioion that would be fine for a spin off of the kotor series, but not for kotor 3. Like Dark Wastl said the series is called KNIGHTS, it should be between the jedi and sith or whomever the "True Sith" are. If the main antaganist is a non force user then a very powerful jedi could kill him maybe bastila. Plus most people like to play as uber force users.

[Dead Skin Mask]

Behold!

 

 

Cheers! "

Edited September 3, 2006 by Dead Skin Mask

[Revan1127]

Behold!

 

 

Cheers! "

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

lol

[Raymond Luxury-Yacht]

What i am trying to say is, i have no clue on why KotOR 3 haven't been announced

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

One thing that has been worrying me, is this:

 

Now it seems the SW saga develops in 'trilogies'----I know the novels and the comics are the big exception to this formula, but so far, with its ANH-like first episode, and the TESB-like gloominess and cliffhanger ending of its second installation, Kotor appears to obey GL's trilogy-format.

 

Fine, so the fans have a lot of reason to expect a third episode. One thing about trilogies, though, is that they are supposed to constitute a unity, not only of plot and characters, etc. but I guess in the case of a video game, in terms of graphic representation and gameplay as well.

 

So the next installation of Kotor would likely feature the same 'looks', 'feel', and 'playability'----otherwise the coherence, the unity expected in a trilogy would be disrupted. Games like GTA that unfold, more or less, a 'universe' of their own have no pretensions as to being grouped in 'Epic Trilogies'; hence in every episode, they can tinker with the game as much as they like, introducing novel features, completely new gameplay and graphics, etc.

 

Kotor wouldn't admit of that, I belive: And the bad news is that the 'original look and feel of the game' is getting (perhaps already has got) obsolete. If a Kotor 3 comes out that won't 'look and feel' like K1 and K2, fans will likely complain that it's something totally different, and not of the spirit of the Kotor-trilogy. On the other hand, if the next Kotor ends up being exactly like its predecessors, it will be considered backward, and surely won't attract new gamers----cool lightsaber hilts, flowing robes and badass fighting stances won't impress those who will have seen that crazy new Vader (?) game (of the u-tube fame....)

 

I know next to nothing about the gaming industry so do excuse my inane speculations on problems pertaining to the publishing of a new Kotor. I'm just bothered by the idea that a 3rd episode far too removed from the first two in terms of development would bring with itself plenty of oddities, as to the 'look and feel of the thing'.

Edited September 3, 2006 by Raymond Luxury-Yacht

[Xard]

Behold!

 

 

Cheers! "

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Don't copy MY cheers

 

That pic was one lollolfoflmaoz

[Benjamin Korr]

http://www.xboxcircle.com/news/lucasarts_q...on_sequels.html

 

A quote from IGN's page.

 

IGN has learned that LucasArts recent silence does not mean inactivity. Infact IGN revealed that LucasArts is infact working on a sequel to the surprise hit Mercenaries for Xbox 360 and PS3.

 

Also quietly in development is KOTOR 3, with the team at Obsedian still behind the game early news is that players can expect better interaction between NPCs and the main character, also IGN said to expect the fighting system to be completely real time. What is not known at the time is which platform KOTOR 3 will land on, one can hope that Obsedian would make the next gen jump.

 

We'll bring you more information on Mercenaries 2 and KOTOR 3 as it becomes available.

 

Of course its not really official, but its good news for those of us still holding our breath.

Edited September 5, 2006 by Benjamin Korr

[Darth Jebus]

http://www.xboxcircle.com/news/lucasarts_q...on_sequels.html

 

A quote from IGN's page.

 

IGN has learned that LucasArts recent silence does not mean inactivity. Infact IGN revealed that LucasArts is infact working on a sequel to the surprise hit Mercenaries for Xbox 360 and PS3.

 

Also quietly in development is KOTOR 3, with the team at Obsedian still behind the game early news is that players can expect better interaction between NPCs and the main character, also IGN said to expect the fighting system to be completely real time. What is not known at the time is which platform KOTOR 3 will land on, one can hope that Obsedian would make the next gen jump.

 

We'll bring you more information on Mercenaries 2 and KOTOR 3 as it becomes available.

 

Of course its not really official, but its good news for those of us still holding our breath.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

It's hard for me to take any "source" seriously that can not even spell Obsidian correctly. I'm not saying any of that is bogus, it's just that they would go a long way in looking more credible if they at least spelled the name of the company supposedly developing the game the way it is supposed to be spelled. <_<

[Benjamin Korr]

Aye I saw that too lol. I wasnt real impressed either with their lack of spelling ability. But typo's happen, and I just hope they knew what they were talking about when they said Kotor 3 is on its way.

[Raymond Luxury-Yacht]

I don't know if any of you remember that several weeks (?) before it was officially announced that K2 was in development, there had appeared a spoof-like newsflash, announcing that "Kotor 2: The Sith Lord" (no 's') was on the way----back then few people had taken it seriously, and the thing did look *quite* fake. I hope this piece of news will turn out likewise!

[Revan1127]

One thing that is crediable from that link s that merc 2 is coming out.

 

http://www.mercs2.com/game.php

Edited September 5, 2006 by Revan1127

[Darth Jebus]

One other thing about that link, it says that IGN predicted Kotor 3 would be released late this year or early next year. And it said that back in January. If that were true, I know we would have heard something by now. Even if LA or OE never made an official announcement. There would have been some info on it floating around the internet. And I don't mean little snippets of information. I mean huge amounts of leaked info, including screenshots, story info, NPCs, and the engine being used.

 

I mean, keeping it quiet? No amount of secrecy save for the type of secrecy employed by the NSA could keep a game the magnitude of Kotor 3 under wraps. Hell, during the years and months leading up to the release of each prequel movie, fans on the internet knew the exact story, characters, cameos, villains, release date, locations, and sometimes even the title long before LucasFilm mad any official announcements.

 

So, unfortunately I have to say that info in the link is outdated and no longer true.

[Benjamin Korr]

One thing that is crediable from that link s that merc 2 is coming out.

 

http://www.mercs2.com/game.php

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Anyone thinking what I'm thinking??? WHAT DOES THAT HAVE TO DO WITH KOTOR?!?! lol

 

Ok not that big a deal, but seriously, this isnt the merc forum.

[Pop]

Uh, see, if one of the conclusions (merc 2 is coming out) is true, that aids the case that their other conclusion (kotor 3 is in development) is credible.

[Karapeters]

Good, solid romances with the character of your choice. And I mean, "I love you" being said in some form, not just hero worship or gut-spilling. That means that if there are 4 male characters I can recruit, I want to be able to take my pick. As some of us girls have said, we had Disciple "adoring us" while we really wanted Atton to flirt with us more and fall in love with our Exile.

 

Resolution to subplots that haven't been fully explored.

 

An extensive amount of choices for appearance. Some of us have been through these two games having been each face just for variety. And some of them are... kinda boring.

 

Explore the jedi order more if possible. There's so much potential there for great history.

[shaggy1984]

Considering this is page 35 of the 20th kotor 3 Ideas thread I'm assuming my ideas have probably already been suggested at one point or another.

 

Anyway I'm hoping for some more expansive environments. The KotOR games were good and all but I really like the element of exploration. I enjoyed both games as they were but most areas really seemed a little too confined in my eyes. Cities didn't feel like cities, too many locked doors the endless sand dunes that weren't exactly endless etc. KotOR 2 was a definate improvement in that regard over the first but not majorly so. I guess it's just the case of striking the right balance, whether you can fill the large environments with interesting enough material to warrant taking the time to wander about and encourage the player to do so. It's something the GTA series I think executed well. Obviously on a larger scale than what I'd expect but the general concept is still the same.

 

The Influence system. Cool concept but it didn't really seem complete in my eyes. I seem to recall slowly corrupting my party members and the visible signs appearing. However their behaviour remained exactly the same througout. So my evil looking party kept their core morals despite the fact that they were apparently evil? I'm just hoping that the influence system is fleshed out to the extent that it will alter their behaviour as well as their appearence.

 

Both Revan and the Exile as the core playable characters each with their own user defined lightside / darkside stance with intertwining story arcs as opposed to one or the other. I have to admit I really have little knowledge in the way of game design but I like the concept of potentially have 2 main characters. Mainly due to the increased level of replayability and variety that it would present. I'm not sure if this is would be a developers nightmare however the prospect of having to design a complex series of varying paths. However I really liked the way obsidian handled the situations when the party members were split up so I'd have faith in them handling this sort of scenario.

 

More epic battles. One thing I found about the KotOR games some of the most built up moments have been letdowns. The Rancor on taris, the Kell Dragon on tatooine (I think?) as well as the various high level enemies and bosses most of which have been relatively easy to take down. I guess with such build up to all these various situations you come off hoping it's going to be a tough fight to come out on top and for many of these situations that hasnt been the case. A fine example of an epic sort of bossfight that required 0 combat was half-life 1 with the big tentacle creature. Granted it's a different type of game but i thought it was exececuted so well. Tense lengthy and difficult.

 

Anyhow thats all that comes to mind at the moment.

Edited September 6, 2006 by shaggy1984

[MarwinElMaco]

My *guess* Obs is developing a new Star wars RPG franchise.

Mostly all what we have heard, so far from PNJ is that it isnt a sequel and it is an own franchise on nextgen. (and the deletion of the forum tho)

 

But it is just my pure guess.

LA are relly nuts if they drop the RPG genre.

[Musopticon?]

Behold!

 

 

Cheers! "

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Woah, from under whence rock didst thou crawleth from?

 

It's been a while since you've been online DSM.

[SHOVA]

Im probably gonna get some yelling from this, because I didnt read All the posts on this topic.

 

My wish/hopefull thinking list:

 

#1 Make KotOR3 like Neverwinternights 1, and soon to be 2, with a toolset that the players can make their own adventurs/mods with. Allow for free online multiplayer as well. Of course this will take away focus from the soloplay game/story, but well worth it in my little opinion.

 

#2 for the storyline of the game, give us more options than 1, or 2. Let us choose what race, sex, and what part of the galaxy we start from. Allow us to choose from multiple paths throughout the game, lightside, darkside, no-side whatever-side. sometimes playing bad is fun, just as playing good is, sometimes all we want is to go through making as much money as possible without either side being advanced.

 

#3 Allow us to go back to any and every place in the game and make it different each time we visit. (unless of course we blow the place to dust).

 

#4 let the player have full control over their interaction with the NPCs in the game. allow us to kill them, scare them, or ignore them. Make the forcepoints reflect this.

 

#5 For the love of a wookie, give me a fricken lightsaber from the start. I've had enough of playing for a hour or so before i can make one, or "earn" one.

 

#6 give us complete party control. allow us to have more than 2 extras in the party. allow us to abandon any party member somewhere nasty when they upset us. and let us kill the ones we really hate.

 

#7 for the main story line, I dont want to be the exile, or the dark lord in disguise. let me make my own way and let my actions in the game earn me a reputation as I go. Maybe I just want to be known as "he's just this guy, you know"

 

#8 Please Please i never want to have to go to tattoine again...ever.

 

#9 please let me skip any minigame that pops up. I dont want to swooprace, or shoot turrets. Lightsabers are more fun. esp when playing as a jedi.

 

#10 let us pick what spaceship we can use, and lets us change it out as we go.

[Revan1127]

#5 For the love of a wookie, give me a fricken lightsaber from the start. I've had enough of playing for a hour or so before i can make one, or "earn" one.

 

 

#8 Please Please i never want to have to go to tattoine again...ever.

 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

I love these two ideas lol