Judge Hades Posted May 13, 2006 Posted May 13, 2006 Okay, now we all know that the DM Client may or may not be in the released packaged of Neverwinter Nights 2. A lot of people are upset over this and there is also a lot of people who don't give a crap. I don't like buying incomplete games. That is my main beef with this. Also it depends on Atari if they are going to support Obsidian to support this game. One of the reasons why the first Neverwinter Nights got the support it did is because of the resources Bioware has. Resources that Obsidian does not have so they can go at it alone when it comes to patching the game. Also the credibility of Obsidian has been tarnished somewhat. First they say that horses will be usuable and now we know that is false. Now we know that the DM Client might be cut from the release of the game. Should we believe Feargus when he says that the DM Client will be released in one form or another? Should we count on Obsidian to release the DM Client or will it be forgotten like KotOR 2's ending? Or is this been all thrown out of proportioned? A lot of online gaming in NWN uses the DM Client and online NWN would be severely hampered without it. Those who don't care about multiplayer support well, its not an issue but those who do and run DM ran games will most certainly be hurt without its inclusion. Bottomline, without the DM Client being released with the game itself there is no sure bet Atari will support Neverwinter Nights 2 for a patch to be made or be made in a timely manner. Lets not forget MOO3 and ToEE. NWN 1 was the exception and not the rule when dealing with Atari game support.
Kaftan Barlast Posted May 13, 2006 Posted May 13, 2006 The DM CLient will be released, OE would have to be insane not to. But my point is: The OC is single-player only, it cant be played multi with a DM or not. And as it will most likely take 1-2 months before people are able to construct modules worth playing, why do you need a DM client upon release? Game development is nothing but a long line of compromises and this is just another one. It would be nice to have the game with all features on release but thats impossible and this is a reasonable compromise. DISCLAIMER: Do not take what I write seriously unless it is clearly and in no uncertain terms, declared by me to be meant in a serious and non-humoristic manner. If there is no clear indication, asume the post is written in jest. This notification is meant very seriously and its purpouse is to avoid misunderstandings and the consequences thereof. Furthermore; I can not be held accountable for anything I write on these forums since the idea of taking serious responsability for my unserious actions, is an oxymoron in itself. Important: as the following sentence contains many naughty words I warn you not to read it under any circumstances; botty, knickers, wee, erogenous zone, psychiatrist, clitoris, stockings, bosom, poetry reading, dentist, fellatio and the department of agriculture. "I suppose outright stupidity and complete lack of taste could also be considered points of view. "
Judge Hades Posted May 13, 2006 Author Posted May 13, 2006 That is assuming that nothing unforeseen happens. Remember the media patch for KotOR 2? Soon. Can we take Obsidian at their word that the DM Client will be released promptly after the release of the game? Also many modders use the DM Client to test their modules before releasing them. If there is no DM Client to test these I think the wait for worthwhile MP modules will be far longer than 2 months.
Jumjalum Posted May 13, 2006 Posted May 13, 2006 The DM CLient will be released, OE would have to be insane not to. But my point is: The OC is single-player only, it cant be played multi with a DM or not. And as it will most likely take 1-2 months before people are able to construct modules worth playing, why do you need a DM client upon release? Game development is nothing but a long line of compromises and this is just another one. It would be nice to have the game with all features on release but thats impossible and this is a reasonable compromise. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I'm pretty sure you can play the campaign in MP, and you don't need the DM client to do so with any module AFAIK, unless you need a live DM there. We now bring you live footage from the World Championship Staring Final.
Judge Hades Posted May 13, 2006 Author Posted May 13, 2006 If you need a live DM then you are screwed playing the NWN 2 OC in MP.
Kaftan Barlast Posted May 13, 2006 Posted May 13, 2006 The media patch for KoTOR2 was not a vital part of the game, you could enjoy it to 100% without it. The DM Client is vital to online play and without it, online play takes a huge hit. If OE waited too long to release it, youve got a distaster on your hands. OE knows this and ATARi aswell, so I think theyre anxious to get it out as soon as possible. DISCLAIMER: Do not take what I write seriously unless it is clearly and in no uncertain terms, declared by me to be meant in a serious and non-humoristic manner. If there is no clear indication, asume the post is written in jest. This notification is meant very seriously and its purpouse is to avoid misunderstandings and the consequences thereof. Furthermore; I can not be held accountable for anything I write on these forums since the idea of taking serious responsability for my unserious actions, is an oxymoron in itself. Important: as the following sentence contains many naughty words I warn you not to read it under any circumstances; botty, knickers, wee, erogenous zone, psychiatrist, clitoris, stockings, bosom, poetry reading, dentist, fellatio and the department of agriculture. "I suppose outright stupidity and complete lack of taste could also be considered points of view. "
Spider Posted May 13, 2006 Posted May 13, 2006 I've posted my arguments in other threads and don't feel like repeating them. I'll summarize though: If the DM Client is important to anyone, I advice that person to simply not buy the game until the client's been released.
Judge Hades Posted May 13, 2006 Author Posted May 13, 2006 That is a valid way of showing disapproval but a game's first few weeks of sells are often the most vital. If it has poor sales then Atari twill thik it is a lost cause and end its support for the game and without their support Obsidian will not be able to patch NWN 2 or even release the DM Client via patch.
Gromnir Posted May 13, 2006 Posted May 13, 2006 (edited) "Also the credibility of Obsidian has been tarnished somewhat." no it hasn't... not with the mass of posters at bio. "did you seee that interview with so-n'-so. he sure seemed genuine about the dm client and i am sure that they won't cut anything else from the game." says fan #1 "yeah, and did you see some of those game footage movies? i thought they were the bomb." is pages o' that stuff over at bio. there is some small group of fans that is really steamed 'bout horsies and the dm client and no z axis and other stuff, but is gonna take some serious effort to knocks folks out of their love of a game that ain't been released yet. oh, and to be fair we will point out that shortly after we was told by josh that no reasonable estimates of nwn2 could be made at this time, some obsidian qa guy mentions on the bio boards that 30-40+ hours o' gameplay is what he thinks nwn is gonna include. so you folks who is looking for any reason you can to be happy 'bout the cuts that has had to be made to stay on schedule (including game areas and the dm client,) and for you folks that wanna stay optimistic in spite of fact that you is worried that the lead designer left the team shortly 'fore all these new problems came to light, well, not to worry, 'cause nathan did an end around on josh and lets us all know that 30-40+ is the newer and frendlier obsidian estimate for gameplay hours. cheers. HA! Good Fun! Edited May 13, 2006 by Gromnir "If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927) "Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)
karka Posted May 13, 2006 Posted May 13, 2006 The media patch for KoTOR2 was not a vital part of the game, you could enjoy it to 100% without it. The DM Client is vital to online play and without it, online play takes a huge hit. If OE waited too long to release it, youve got a distaster on your hands. OE knows this and ATARi aswell, so I think theyre anxious to get it out as soon as possible. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> But the ending is vital, and it's still missing.
Judge Hades Posted May 13, 2006 Author Posted May 13, 2006 Yeah, but those are Bio Posters. Like they matter.
kirottu Posted May 13, 2006 Posted May 13, 2006 oh, and to be fair we will point out that shortly after we was told by josh that no reasonable estimates of nwn2 could be made at this time, some obsidian qa guy mentions on the bio boards that 30-40+ hours o' gameplay is what he thinks nwn is gonna include. so you folks who is looking for any reason you can to be happy 'bout the cuts that has had to be made to stay on schedule (including game areas and the dm client,) and for you folks that wanna stay optimistic in spite of fact that you is worried that the lead designer left the team shortly 'fore all these new problems came to light, well, not to worry, 'cause nathan did an end around on josh and lets us all know that 30-40+ is the newer and frendlier obsidian estimate for gameplay hours. cheers. HA! Good Fun! <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I think most accurate gameplay lenght estimate comes from the guys who are playing NWN 2 and that is the qa guys. This post is not to be enjoyed, discussed, or referenced on company time.
Gromnir Posted May 13, 2006 Posted May 13, 2006 oh, and to be fair we will point out that shortly after we was told by josh that no reasonable estimates of nwn2 could be made at this time, some obsidian qa guy mentions on the bio boards that 30-40+ hours o' gameplay is what he thinks nwn is gonna include. so you folks who is looking for any reason you can to be happy 'bout the cuts that has had to be made to stay on schedule (including game areas and the dm client,) and for you folks that wanna stay optimistic in spite of fact that you is worried that the lead designer left the team shortly 'fore all these new problems came to light, well, not to worry, 'cause nathan did an end around on josh and lets us all know that 30-40+ is the newer and frendlier obsidian estimate for gameplay hours. cheers. HA! Good Fun! <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I think most accurate gameplay lenght estimate comes from the guys who are playing NWN 2 and that is the qa guys. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> josh, the lead on nwn2, has said that nobody can give an accurate estimate at this time... and josh is one of those self-destructive straight shooters. nevertheless, after the fergie fiasco we has seen previews (and where you think they get their estimates) and obsinaties that all says 30-40 or 40 or some such. you peoples believes what you want to... am gonna be a bit more cautious. HA! Good Fun! "If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927) "Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)
Hassat Hunter Posted May 13, 2006 Posted May 13, 2006 That is assuming that nothing unforeseen happens. Remember the media patch for KotOR 2? Soon. You got it SO wrong it was: In a day or 2 HA! No Fun! The media patch for KoTOR2 was not a vital part of the game, you could enjoy it to 100% without it. And according to posters on the OE forums (Lara Kikelli, Llyranor, Kaftan Barlast) so is the DM Client " Main point is OE once again (even with such a long dev cycle) rushed and did mismanagement and ONCE AGAIN we are stuck with an incomplete game. You can say "we get it in XX" days but can we believe that? SHOULD we believe that? OE told us they learned there lesson from Kotor2, but they repeat it once again; why should other failures not be repeated too then? Where can I get the same fate as you guys seem to have that despite this screwup not more shall follow? ^ I agree that that is such a stupid idiotic pathetic garbage hateful retarded scumbag evil satanic nazi like term ever created. At least top 5. TSLRCM Official Forum || TSLRCM Moddb || My other KOTOR2 mods || TSLRCM (English version) on Steam || [M4-78EP on Steam Formerly known as BattleWookiee/BattleCookiee
Judge Hades Posted May 13, 2006 Author Posted May 13, 2006 Hassat is right. The primary lesson for KotOR 2 was not release an incomplete game. WHat are they doing with NWN 2? Releasing an incomplete game.
Volourn Posted May 13, 2006 Posted May 13, 2006 (edited) "OC is single-player only, it cant be played multi with a DM or not" Yes, you can. Mr. Sawyer stated that it's not ideal to play the OC in MP; but it's very possible. The DM (if there is one that actually will exist) can be used to. It wasn't 'ideal' to play NWN OC (any of them) in MP either; but it was possible. "If the DM Client is important to anyone, I advice that person to simply not buy the game until the client's been released." It's not clear cut for everyone. Not for me to be sure. 'Cause while I want the DMC, there's other parts of the game I really want like the OC for example. And, oh, the DMC is a non issue now. It's no longer (unless they somehow squeeze it into the release) apart of the game package now. It's likely been cut. Sure, it will likely be released in apatch; but it's nwoehe near the same thing. Obsidian has said in the past that they believed that all four parts wer eimportant; but anyone who buys that is wearing blinders. And, oh, cutting the DMC won't help sales no matter how much ones liek Grom. There's a reason why NWN has sold the Bg games, and is actually comeptiing with KOTOR as BIO's highest selling game despite KOTOR being strictly SP and having the SW logo on it (which is way more mass market than D&D is). I'll buy NWN2 on release day because even without the cut DMC, I think NWN2 might be worth it... surely more than a particular overrated game that was release not that long ago. :D Edited May 13, 2006 by Volourn DWARVES IN PROJECT ETERNITY = VOLOURN HAS PLEDGED $250.
Judge Hades Posted May 13, 2006 Author Posted May 13, 2006 What? DUngeon Siege 2? Dungeons Lords 2? Auto Assault?
Arkan Posted May 13, 2006 Posted May 13, 2006 No DM client? Doesn't bother me. I don't plan to play online anyway. "Of course the people don't want war. But after all, it's the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and it's always a simple matter to drag the people along whether it's a democracy, a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism, and exposing the country to greater danger." - Herman Goering at the Nuremberg trials "I have also been slowly coming to the realisation that knowledge and happiness are not necessarily coincident, and quite often mutually exclusive" - meta
Judge Hades Posted May 13, 2006 Author Posted May 13, 2006 I didn't plan on playing online with NWN 1 but I did.
Llyranor Posted May 13, 2006 Posted May 13, 2006 I won't be touching the multiplayer part this time around. (Approved by Fio, so feel free to use it)
Arkan Posted May 13, 2006 Posted May 13, 2006 I didn't plan on playing online with NWN 1 but I did. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I didn't plan on playing online with NWN 1 and I didn't. "Of course the people don't want war. But after all, it's the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and it's always a simple matter to drag the people along whether it's a democracy, a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism, and exposing the country to greater danger." - Herman Goering at the Nuremberg trials "I have also been slowly coming to the realisation that knowledge and happiness are not necessarily coincident, and quite often mutually exclusive" - meta
Hassat Hunter Posted May 13, 2006 Posted May 13, 2006 What? Dungeon Siege 2? Dungeons Lords 2? Auto Assault? *cough*It is pretty obvioulsy Oblivion*cough* Speaking about DS2, what did you find of it? It offered everything you mentioned that would make Diablo2 into a good RPG... " And on the DL later stuff (very late, yeah, I know); They mentioned QA and stuff didn't used DM client for the making of NWN2 so it really is not that much needed or something. It makes me wonder if they actually gonna QA-test the DM Client before offering it for download or just dump it on us when done. [insert Alanschu post about how conversing something from one engine to another might ruin everything]; with all consequences that that could give... ^ I agree that that is such a stupid idiotic pathetic garbage hateful retarded scumbag evil satanic nazi like term ever created. At least top 5. TSLRCM Official Forum || TSLRCM Moddb || My other KOTOR2 mods || TSLRCM (English version) on Steam || [M4-78EP on Steam Formerly known as BattleWookiee/BattleCookiee
Judge Hades Posted May 13, 2006 Author Posted May 13, 2006 (edited) I didn't play it very long because the story made no sense to me. I was, along with my buddy, hired mercs for this guy and so we do the job we were hired to do then he shows up nd attacks us, the people he hired, for no reason. Makes no sense. I stop playing after that because it was stupid. Then all of a sudden I am working for the former enemy. WTF?!?!? Edited May 13, 2006 by Judge Hades
Hassat Hunter Posted May 13, 2006 Posted May 13, 2006 (edited) Good thing you never got betrayed by people in any BioWare games, eh. Totally makes no sense... Ofcourse somebody telling in their hometown he stole one of the most powerfull relics in the entire world would be perfectly normal for any would-be-world-dominator to accept... Especially if these guys are just very expandable people he could easily get another 1000 from without trouble... Hades; I have no idea how you managed to keep playing Kotor2 if you despise an actual story... that isn't immediately clear from point blanche Then all of a sudden I am working for the former enemy. WTF?!?!? UNATCO - NSF WTF! Edited May 13, 2006 by Hassat Hunter ^ I agree that that is such a stupid idiotic pathetic garbage hateful retarded scumbag evil satanic nazi like term ever created. At least top 5. TSLRCM Official Forum || TSLRCM Moddb || My other KOTOR2 mods || TSLRCM (English version) on Steam || [M4-78EP on Steam Formerly known as BattleWookiee/BattleCookiee
kirottu Posted May 13, 2006 Posted May 13, 2006 They mentioned QA and stuff didn't used DM client for the making of NWN2 so it really is not that much needed or something. It makes me wonder if they actually gonna QA-test the DM Client before offering it for download or just dump it on us when done. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Why wouldn This post is not to be enjoyed, discussed, or referenced on company time.
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