Most powerful Jedi.

[OverPowered Godzilla (OPG)]

Yeah I am getting pwned. Sorry for paying attention to the story.

[Guest The Architect]

Yeah I am getting pwned. Sorry for paying attention to the story.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

The point that where all trying to make is that the Exile is 'not invincible', that he/she has to work for his/her kills before he/she can increase in power. I'm not gonna deny that the Exile increases in power every time he/she kills someone because he/she does increase in power, it's just that 'if' the Exile is not powerful enough to kill someone, then he/she will lose and the point is, no one actually knows if the Exile is more powerful than Revan or not.

 

Now, Kreia did say that the Exile was 'greater' than Revan but we don't entirely know what she means by this, it does not instantly imply that the Exile is more powerful than Revan, 'greater' is the key word but being greater than someone does not necessarily mean your more powerful, but perhaps Kreia was implying that the Exile is more powerful than Revan, but IMO, it remains to be seen and it's still not definite.

 

The other point where all trying to make is that the KOTOR games are just VIDEO GAMES and it's only natural that in the KOTOR/RPG Universe that certain force-users actions, roles and powers are elaborated. Just because someone can kill all life on an entire planet in a VIDEO GAME by himself (I'm referring to Darth Nihilus) it does not mean he's more powerful than Luke Skywalker.

 

But to put a long story short, your claim that the Exile is the most powerful force-user of all time in the SW Universe is incorrect. But if you continue to beleive that the Exile is the most powerful force-user of all-time, then so be it, that's your opinion and your entitled to it but don't expect many people to agree with you. Not that I'm saying you were expecting many people to agree with you in the first place that is, it's just a fact...

Edited May 18, 2006 by The Architect

[Sturm]

I agree with The Architech, kreia may state that the Exile is 'greater' then Revan, but its not enough information and too vague for us to understand of what aspects he is greater, for all we know the exile might have been a better person at, err lets say.. picking up party members (just some hypothetical crap of mine )

 

like my english teacher says, the word nice has been used so often all the time, that its lost all meaning, and to use other words, other descriptive words

 

kreia has used 'greater' in a content where we cant understand of what aspects

[Jediphile]

I agree with The Architech, kreia may state that the Exile is 'greater' then Revan, but its not enough information and too vague for us to understand of what aspects he is greater, for all we know the exile might have been a better person at, err lets say.. picking up party members (just some hypothetical crap of mine )

 

like my english teacher says, the word nice has been used so often all the time, that its lost all meaning, and to use other words, other descriptive words

 

kreia has used 'greater' in a content where we cant understand of what aspects

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Just for the record, Kreia's exact line is: "You are greater than any I have ever trained."

 

Now, most seem to think that it naturally follows from that statement, that the Exile was "greater", i.e., more powerful, than Revan was, since she also trained Revan.

 

I see the logic, but I'm less certain myself for two reasons.

 

First, Revan learned from many other masters, and he may have grown quite powerful under other teachers than Kreia. That he was not her greatest student does not necessarily mean that he has not become the most powerful jedi later.

 

Second, and more important, you have to consider Kreia's perspectives. Revan is "just" another "ordinary" jedi, albeit an exceedingly powerful one. But he does not possess the Exile's ability (that we've seen at least) to deny the will of the force. And that ability is something that makes the Exile beautiful to Kreia, since he can deny the force that she hates so much. She may call the Exile the greatest for that reason, in the sense that it is not a measure of who is more powerful, but who has the ability that Kreia admires the most.

[Darth Blivion]

I agree with Jediphile in part. She may feel the Exile is her greatest because he has the ability to deny the will of the force. But let's look at the context for a second. Who has Kreia trained? She's trained Jedi/Sith/force users. If she calls the Exile her greatest, it means that he is the greatest Jedi/force user she has ever trained. The fact that Jedi are basically force users whose ultimate duty is to save or defend the galaxy, then she can only mean that the Exile is the greatest guardian of peace she has ever trained.

 

I'll draw a comparison, when someone says: "you are the greatest actor I've seen", it means simply that they are the best all round actor they've seen. Greatness encompasses more than power, as the greatest at anything are able to put it all to together or use what they are good at, to maximum effect.

 

For the Exile, I think Kreia means just this: that he is the best Jedi/force user, she has ever trained. He does it all better than anyone she's trained, or that he uses his strengths more exceptionally than anyone she's trained before.

Edited May 18, 2006 by Darth Blivion

[OverPowered Godzilla (OPG)]

That single line is not even all the proof. Many people can think of it meaning different things but the Exile DID (STORYLINE WISE) LEARN force and lightsaber forms within mere SECONDS and used them to a greater effect against the master of that force pwoer who has studied it for years. That is how fast the Exile increases in power. Kreia loved revan alot as she has mentioned. He was not just another jedi to her. She may be the one responsible for turning Revan evil as she taught him teachings that were not from the jedi order. She said Revan was power. Staring at him was like staring at the heart of the force. She said the exile was like the DEATH of the force. The Exile can learn almost any power instantly storywise and he has the potential to destroy the force. He is a wound in the force. ANother resource suggestions that he is more powerful is you have the option of saying in the game becuase in giving up the force one can GAIN ABLITIES NOT POSSIBLE OTHERWISE.

 

As for Lukes power lvl debate........

Lukes power increased becuase he found the kaibur crystal which was said it could increase ones force power one THOUSAND fold. But it is CLEARLY stated in another book that Mace Windus purple lightsaber crystal is the rarest and most powerful crystal and it was believed by the jedi that only the most powerful could wield it so that alone proves that Luke is not ALL POWERFUL AND THE MOST POWERFUL EVER. The Exile can also find the same crystal as luke but storywise it would produce different effects. Not only that but many people claim that since he used electric judgement he is the most powerful but another has mastered that ability as well. Plo coon has mastered it. Mace Windu can used MANY darkside powers that most people don't even know about.

 

Mace Windus rare powers that are not known by most people are.

 

Vapaad - The most powerful lightsaber form ever by far allows to feed off the darksides pwoer and make lightsaber strieks so fast they can be invisible to the human eye. It has many special abilitites including reflecting others pwoers back at them. It was stated that he used Palpatiens own rage and hatred and used it has his own wepaon in the fight. He relfected it back much like a blast bolt. He did the same with the lighting.

 

Sith Muarader rage - He can used this ability and when it overlaoded he can put his lightsaber in the ground causeing a massive electrical attack that can injury and even kill foes. Vader has also mastered this ability.

 

Shatterpoint - Mace Windu can predict the furture or sense things very good with this. He can find an enemys shatterpoint or weakness and feed upon it.

 

 

Force crush - we all know what it is. He used it on General Grevuis and crushed his sternum.

 

he has many otehrs as well so I doubt luke is the ONE HUNDRED PERCENT most powerful.

[Xard]

"As for Lukes power lvl debate........

Lukes power increased becuase he found the kaibur crystal which was said it could increase ones force power one THOUSAND fold. But it is CLEARLY stated in another book that Mace Windus purple lightsaber crystal is the rarest and most powerful crystal and it was believed by the jedi that only the most powerful could wield it so that alone proves that Luke is not ALL POWERFUL AND THE MOST POWERFUL EVER. The Exile can also find the same crystal as luke but storywise it would produce different effects. Not only that but many people claim that since he used electric judgement he is the most powerful but another has mastered that ability as well. Plo coon has mastered it. Mace Windu can used MANY darkside powers that most people don't even know about."

 

Right... It is just fricking crystal, so what that i is powerful? This isn't about crystals... Only most powerful Jedi could wield it? Luke haven't even been born then...And many powerful jedis has already died furing that time...

 

The learning speed...

 

"However, Luke's particular form of lightsaber combat may in the end be something entirely new, with traces of Form III, Form IV and Form V mixed together with his own techniques. It is doubtful that Kenobi and Yoda had time to actually teach him the finer points of the combat Forms. Just like most other things about being a Jedi Knight, Luke would probably have to figure out whole new fighting styles to replace the ones lost during the Great Jedi Purge. It is also probable that the Jensaarai would have passed on knowledge of the lightsaber forms of the Old Jedi Order as their founders were former Jedi Knights and Padawans."

 

So, Luke is great and masterful dueler. He doesn't use one form, he combines them, taking strenghts of them and leaving their weaknesses. That is true mastering of swormanship. We have seen over and over again his ever greatening skills... It looks like he might even being creating new form... Propably greater than Vaapadu.

 

And for learning speed itself...The beginning part of quote: Luke Skywalker's use of Form V is probably as much instinctive as trained. On Bespin, Luke revealed that he was an extraordinarily gifted duelist after only one brief session with Obi-Wan Kenobi and a short time of study with Yoda. After that fateful duel, Luke studied some lightsaber skills from Kenobi's journal and greatly advanced his abilities. Without a Master, it was Luke's unparalleled aptitude which contributed in the impossible advancement of his skills. Onboard the second Death Star, Luke mirrored Darth Vader's own Form V technique and responded with his own furious demonstration of Form V's raw power. Observing swordsmen such as Palpatine might be astonished at such instantaneous learning in a lightsaber duel. Finally, Luke was able to duel Vader on an even footing, and defeated the experienced Dark Lord.

 

 

"Sith Muarader rage - He can used this ability and when it overlaoded he can put his lightsaber in the ground causeing a massive electrical attack that can injury and even kill foes. Vader has also mastered this ability."

 

Hmm...That doesn't fare against electric judgement...

 

"Vapaad - The most powerful lightsaber form ever by far allows to feed off the darksides pwoer and make lightsaber strieks so fast they can be invisible to the human eye. It has many special abilitites including reflecting others pwoers back at them. It was stated that he used Palpatiens own rage and hatred and used it has his own wepaon in the fight. He relfected it back much like a blast bolt. He did the same with the lighting. "

 

It wasn't quicker than eye during fight against Palpy... And again, each from has their weaknesses. With Vaapadu you may not be able to hold darkside back. And then you would enter into terrible rage. If you manage to hold against it long enough opponent with vaapadu would exhaust him/herself, and be easy to kill after that. And combination of other forms really could kick Vaapadu too.

 

And lets not forget that even with Vaapadu Mace wasn't able to beat Sidious. He acts his lost and clearly shows after Ani's turning that he could've pwned him. For example, "Power. Unlimited power".

 

Windu even states that there was two greater lightsaber user in order. Yoda and...hmm...Dooku, even though he was not jedi anymore during ep. II and III. (personally I thought that Mace and Dooku were quite equal, but that is just my opinion) Yoda is equal or little bit weaker than Palpatine, but better fighter/force user than Mace.

 

and Luke manages to beat Palpy later on EU in lightsaber fight. Neither Yoda or Mace couldn't do it...

 

"Shatterpoint - Mace Windu can predict the furture or sense things very good with this. He can find an enemys shatterpoint or weakness and feed upon it."

 

FEED? He isn't Nihilus. And he still couldn't defeat Palpatine...

 

Force crush? Lol, that would mean that Grievous organic remnants had more hit pointsl than most enemies in k2. Obi just shots them with a blaster and boom. He propably used grip during battle of Coruscant.

Edited May 19, 2006 by Xard

[Guest The Architect]

That single line is not even all the proof. Many people can think of it meaning different things but the Exile DID (STORYLINE WISE) LEARN force and lightsaber forms within mere SECONDS and used them to a greater effect against the master of that force pwoer who has studied it for years. That is how fast the Exile increases in power. Kreia loved revan alot as she has mentioned. He was not just another jedi to her. She may be the one responsible for turning Revan evil as she taught him teachings that were not from the jedi order. She said Revan was power. Staring at him was like staring at the heart of the force. She said the exile was like the DEATH of the force. The Exile can learn almost any power instantly storywise and he has the potential to destroy the force. He is a wound in the force. ANother resource suggestions that he is more powerful is you have the option of saying in the game becuase in giving up the force one can GAIN ABLITIES NOT POSSIBLE OTHERWISE.

 

As for Lukes power lvl debate........

Lukes power increased becuase he found the kaibur crystal which was said it could increase ones force power one THOUSAND fold. But it is CLEARLY stated in another book that Mace Windus purple lightsaber crystal is the rarest and most powerful crystal and it was believed by the jedi that only the most powerful could wield it so that alone proves that Luke is not ALL POWERFUL AND THE MOST POWERFUL EVER. The Exile can also find the same crystal as luke but storywise it would produce different effects. Not only that but many people claim that since he used electric judgement he is the most powerful but another has mastered that ability as well. Plo coon has mastered it. Mace Windu can used MANY darkside powers that most people don't even know about.

 

Mace Windus rare powers that are not known by most people are.

 

Vapaad - The most powerful lightsaber form ever by far allows to feed off the darksides pwoer and make lightsaber strieks so fast they can be invisible to the human eye. It has many special abilitites including reflecting others pwoers back at them. It was stated that he used Palpatiens own rage and hatred and used it has his own wepaon in the fight. He relfected it back much like a blast bolt. He did the same with the lighting.

 

Sith Muarader rage - He can used this ability and when it overlaoded he can put his lightsaber in the ground causeing a massive electrical attack that can injury and even kill foes. Vader has also mastered this ability.

 

Shatterpoint - Mace Windu can predict the furture or sense things very good with this. He can find an enemys shatterpoint or weakness and feed upon it.

 

 

Force crush - we all know what it is. He used it on General Grevuis and crushed his sternum.

 

he has many otehrs as well so I doubt luke is the ONE HUNDRED PERCENT most powerful.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

You still fail to recognize the fact that the Exile only increases in power because he/she has to! It's an RPG VIDEO GAME in which your main character and party members LEVEL UP, hence, they increase in power, and by the way, do you have any quotes from any of the characters in KOTOR II that back up your supposed myth that the Exile can learn a force power/technique within mere seconds? If so, don't go making that claim, I certainly did not remember anyone mentioning that the Exile can learn a technique instantly in KOTOR II, I still beleive you misunderstand the difference between gameplay and storyline.

 

Like I've said before, the Exile has to WORK for his/her kills, he/she ONLY increases in power AFTER he/she has killed someone, NOT during or before battle so 'if' the Exile is not powerful enough to defeat another force-user then he/she will lose. The Exile is not the uber-powerful/force-god you make him/her out to be.

 

But go on, prove me a wrong, show me a quote/s that mention the Exile can learn a force-power/technique within mere seconds...

Edited May 19, 2006 by The Architect

[DarthReliguim]

As for Lukes power lvl debate........

Lukes power increased becuase he found the kaibur crystal which was said it could increase ones force power one THOUSAND fold. But it is CLEARLY stated in another book that Mace Windus purple lightsaber crystal is the rarest and most powerful crystal and it was believed by the jedi that only the most powerful could wield it so that alone proves that Luke is not ALL POWERFUL AND THE MOST POWERFUL EVER. The Exile can also find the same crystal as luke but storywise it would produce different effects. Not only that but many people claim that since he used electric judgement he is the most powerful but another has mastered that ability as well. Plo coon has mastered it. Mace Windu can used MANY darkside powers that most people don't even know about.

 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Luke's Electric Judgement is different from Plo Koon's. Luke's lightning is said to be green and kill instantly. Plo's is orange but it doesn't kill.

Edited May 19, 2006 by DarthReliguim

[Darth Blivion]

But go on, prove me a wrong, show me a quote/s that mention the Exile can learn a force-power/technique within mere seconds...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

When you fight Zez Kai Ell, Vrook and Kavar, you learn their forms simply by observing them within a matter of seconds. The fight starts off you, battle for a few seconds and voila, the Exile has learned the technique the masters are using against him. When he is in the ship and Kreia teaches him how to listen to thoughts, he learns instantaneously and Kreia comments that: "You are strong indeed." She also goes on to state that the Exile, in mere moments, has learned a technique most master take years to learn.

 

And there are other examples. His bonding ability allows him to learn techniques within moments, and his own aptitude allows him to be able to defeat the masters with their own technique sometimes.

Edited May 19, 2006 by Darth Blivion

[OverPowered Godzilla (OPG)]

"As for Lukes power lvl debate........

Lukes power increased becuase he found the kaibur crystal which was said it could increase ones force power one THOUSAND fold. But it is CLEARLY stated in another book that Mace Windus purple lightsaber crystal is the rarest and most powerful crystal and it was believed by the jedi that only the most powerful could wield it so that alone proves that Luke is not ALL POWERFUL AND THE MOST POWERFUL EVER. The Exile can also find the same crystal as luke but storywise it would produce different effects. Not only that but many people claim that since he used electric judgement he is the most powerful but another has mastered that ability as well. Plo coon has mastered it. Mace Windu can used MANY darkside powers that most people don't even know about."

 

Right... It is just fricking crystal, so what that i is powerful? This isn't about crystals... Only most powerful Jedi could wield it? Luke haven't even been born then...And many powerful jedis has already died furing that time...

 

The learning speed...

 

"However, Luke's particular form of lightsaber combat may in the end be something entirely new, with traces of Form III, Form IV and Form V mixed together with his own techniques. It is doubtful that Kenobi and Yoda had time to actually teach him the finer points of the combat Forms. Just like most other things about being a Jedi Knight, Luke would probably have to figure out whole new fighting styles to replace the ones lost during the Great Jedi Purge. It is also probable that the Jensaarai would have passed on knowledge of the lightsaber forms of the Old Jedi Order as their founders were former Jedi Knights and Padawans."

 

So, Luke is great and masterful dueler. He doesn't use one form, he combines them, taking strenghts of them and leaving their weaknesses. That is true mastering of swormanship. We have seen over and over again his ever greatening skills... It looks like he might even being creating new form... Propably greater than Vaapadu.

 

And for learning speed itself...The beginning part of quote: Luke Skywalker's use of Form V is probably as much instinctive as trained. On Bespin, Luke revealed that he was an extraordinarily gifted duelist after only one brief session with Obi-Wan Kenobi and a short time of study with Yoda. After that fateful duel, Luke studied some lightsaber skills from Kenobi's journal and greatly advanced his abilities. Without a Master, it was Luke's unparalleled aptitude which contributed in the impossible advancement of his skills. Onboard the second Death Star, Luke mirrored Darth Vader's own Form V technique and responded with his own furious demonstration of Form V's raw power. Observing swordsmen such as Palpatine might be astonished at such instantaneous learning in a lightsaber duel. Finally, Luke was able to duel Vader on an even footing, and defeated the experienced Dark Lord.

 

 

"Sith Muarader rage - He can used this ability and when it overlaoded he can put his lightsaber in the ground causeing a massive electrical attack that can injury and even kill foes. Vader has also mastered this ability."

 

Hmm...That doesn't fare against electric judgement...

 

"Vapaad - The most powerful lightsaber form ever by far allows to feed off the darksides pwoer and make lightsaber strieks so fast they can be invisible to the human eye. It has many special abilitites including reflecting others pwoers back at them. It was stated that he used Palpatiens own rage and hatred and used it has his own wepaon in the fight. He relfected it back much like a blast bolt. He did the same with the lighting. "

 

It wasn't quicker than eye during fight against Palpy... And again, each from has their weaknesses. With Vaapadu you may not be able to hold darkside back. And then you would enter into terrible rage. If you manage to hold against it long enough opponent with vaapadu would exhaust him/herself, and be easy to kill after that. And combination of other forms really could kick Vaapadu too.

 

And lets not forget that even with Vaapadu Mace wasn't able to beat Sidious. He acts his lost and clearly shows after Ani's turning that he could've pwned him. For example, "Power. Unlimited power".

 

  Windu even states that there was two greater lightsaber user in order. Yoda and...hmm...Dooku, even though he was not jedi anymore during ep. II and III. (personally I thought that Mace and Dooku were quite equal, but that is just my opinion) Yoda is equal or little bit weaker than Palpatine, but better fighter/force user than Mace.

 

and Luke manages to beat Palpy later on EU in lightsaber fight. Neither Yoda or Mace couldn't do it...

 

"Shatterpoint - Mace Windu can predict the furture or sense things very good with this. He can find an enemys shatterpoint or weakness and feed upon it."

 

FEED? He isn't Nihilus. And he still couldn't defeat Palpatine...

 

Force crush? Lol, that would mean that Grievous organic remnants had more hit pointsl than most enemies in k2. Obi just shots them with a blaster and boom. He propably used grip during battle of Coruscant.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

The lightsaber crystal increase Jedis power for one and the crystal do MATTER A LOT.

 

NOWHERE was it mentioned that Luke drops the weaknesses of the forms. You made that up. Also it comes NOWHERE NEAR the pwoer of vapaad. Vapaad is invisible to the human eye in terms of speed and can draw power from the darkside. It allows darksided force powers and rage to make your power way stronger. Plus the super conducting loop will allow him to defeat almsot any foe. If not for Anakin Palaptines sorry little ass would of been messed up and decimated by Mace. Mace renewed his trust in Anakin. NOTHING Lukes lightsaber form can do will even come close to vapaad. It wasn't much different from other lightsaber forms if you watch. Only his mastery of the force allowed him to use it so well at the end BUT he was drawing power from other Jedi in that battle anyway,

 

 

Electric judegemnt would jsut be relfected back from Mace Windus lightsaber. Also electric judegement is LESS powerful than force lighting as mentioned. It is the lightside version of it.

 

 

You always exagerate things to be on your side of the debate when their not. Luke ONLY beat Palaptine WITH LIEAS help. If it wasa fight between Palpatine and Mace WITHOUT Anakin....well we all get the picture. Mace would of won.

[OverPowered Godzilla (OPG)]

That single line is not even all the proof. Many people can think of it meaning different things but the Exile DID (STORYLINE WISE) LEARN force and lightsaber forms within mere SECONDS and used them to a greater effect against the master of that force pwoer who has studied it for years. That is how fast the Exile increases in power. Kreia loved revan alot as she has mentioned. He was not just another jedi to her. She may be the one responsible for turning Revan evil as she taught him teachings that were not from the jedi order. She said Revan was power. Staring at him was like staring at the heart of the force. She said the exile was like the DEATH of the force. The Exile can learn almost any power instantly storywise and he has the potential to destroy the force. He is a wound in the force. ANother resource suggestions that he is more powerful is you have the option of saying in the game becuase in giving up the force one can GAIN ABLITIES NOT POSSIBLE OTHERWISE.

 

As for Lukes power lvl debate........

Lukes power increased becuase he found the kaibur crystal which was said it could increase ones force power one THOUSAND fold. But it is CLEARLY stated in another book that Mace Windus purple lightsaber crystal is the rarest and most powerful crystal and it was believed by the jedi that only the most powerful could wield it so that alone proves that Luke is not ALL POWERFUL AND THE MOST POWERFUL EVER. The Exile can also find the same crystal as luke but storywise it would produce different effects. Not only that but many people claim that since he used electric judgement he is the most powerful but another has mastered that ability as well. Plo coon has mastered it. Mace Windu can used MANY darkside powers that most people don't even know about.

 

Mace Windus rare powers that are not known by most people are.

 

Vapaad - The most powerful lightsaber form ever by far allows to feed off the darksides pwoer and make lightsaber strieks so fast they can be invisible to the human eye. It has many special abilitites including reflecting others pwoers back at them. It was stated that he used Palpatiens own rage and hatred and used it has his own wepaon in the fight. He relfected it back much like a blast bolt. He did the same with the lighting.

 

Sith Muarader rage - He can used this ability and when it overlaoded he can put his lightsaber in the ground causeing a massive electrical attack that can injury and even kill foes. Vader has also mastered this ability.

 

Shatterpoint - Mace Windu can predict the furture or sense things very good with this. He can find an enemys shatterpoint or weakness and feed upon it.

 

 

Force crush - we all know what it is. He used it on General Grevuis and crushed his sternum.

 

he has many otehrs as well so I doubt luke is the ONE HUNDRED PERCENT most powerful.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

You still fail to recognize the fact that the Exile only increases in power because he/she has to! It's an RPG VIDEO GAME in which your main character and party members LEVEL UP, hence, they increase in power, and by the way, do you have any quotes from any of the characters in KOTOR II that back up your supposed myth that the Exile can learn a force power/technique within mere seconds? If so, don't go making that claim, I certainly did not remember anyone mentioning that the Exile can learn a technique instantly in KOTOR II, I still beleive you misunderstand the difference between gameplay and storyline.

 

Like I've said before, the Exile has to WORK for his/her kills, he/she ONLY increases in power AFTER he/she has killed someone, NOT during or before battle so 'if' the Exile is not powerful enough to defeat another force-user then he/she will lose. The Exile is not the uber-powerful/force-god you make him/her out to be.

 

But go on, prove me a wrong, show me a quote/s that mention the Exile can learn a force-power/technique within mere seconds...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

All this is completley off and wrong since he learned them WHILE he was fighting or in trouble and all it was part of the story so accept it. He gained powers NOT POSSIBLE otherise from giving up the force as the story told. He can bring DEATH to the force.

[DarthReliguim]

That single line is not even all the proof. Many people can think of it meaning different things but the Exile DID (STORYLINE WISE) LEARN force and lightsaber forms within mere SECONDS and used them to a greater effect against the master of that force pwoer who has studied it for years. That is how fast the Exile increases in power. Kreia loved revan alot as she has mentioned. He was not just another jedi to her. She may be the one responsible for turning Revan evil as she taught him teachings that were not from the jedi order. She said Revan was power. Staring at him was like staring at the heart of the force. She said the exile was like the DEATH of the force. The Exile can learn almost any power instantly storywise and he has the potential to destroy the force. He is a wound in the force. ANother resource suggestions that he is more powerful is you have the option of saying in the game becuase in giving up the force one can GAIN ABLITIES NOT POSSIBLE OTHERWISE.

 

As for Lukes power lvl debate........

Lukes power increased becuase he found the kaibur crystal which was said it could increase ones force power one THOUSAND fold. But it is CLEARLY stated in another book that Mace Windus purple lightsaber crystal is the rarest and most powerful crystal and it was believed by the jedi that only the most powerful could wield it so that alone proves that Luke is not ALL POWERFUL AND THE MOST POWERFUL EVER. The Exile can also find the same crystal as luke but storywise it would produce different effects. Not only that but many people claim that since he used electric judgement he is the most powerful but another has mastered that ability as well. Plo coon has mastered it. Mace Windu can used MANY darkside powers that most people don't even know about.

 

Mace Windus rare powers that are not known by most people are.

 

Vapaad - The most powerful lightsaber form ever by far allows to feed off the darksides pwoer and make lightsaber strieks so fast they can be invisible to the human eye. It has many special abilitites including reflecting others pwoers back at them. It was stated that he used Palpatiens own rage and hatred and used it has his own wepaon in the fight. He relfected it back much like a blast bolt. He did the same with the lighting.

 

Sith Muarader rage - He can used this ability and when it overlaoded he can put his lightsaber in the ground causeing a massive electrical attack that can injury and even kill foes. Vader has also mastered this ability.

 

Shatterpoint - Mace Windu can predict the furture or sense things very good with this. He can find an enemys shatterpoint or weakness and feed upon it.

 

 

Force crush - we all know what it is. He used it on General Grevuis and crushed his sternum.

 

he has many otehrs as well so I doubt luke is the ONE HUNDRED PERCENT most powerful.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

You still fail to recognize the fact that the Exile only increases in power because he/she has to! It's an RPG VIDEO GAME in which your main character and party members LEVEL UP, hence, they increase in power, and by the way, do you have any quotes from any of the characters in KOTOR II that back up your supposed myth that the Exile can learn a force power/technique within mere seconds? If so, don't go making that claim, I certainly did not remember anyone mentioning that the Exile can learn a technique instantly in KOTOR II, I still beleive you misunderstand the difference between gameplay and storyline.

 

Like I've said before, the Exile has to WORK for his/her kills, he/she ONLY increases in power AFTER he/she has killed someone, NOT during or before battle so 'if' the Exile is not powerful enough to defeat another force-user then he/she will lose. The Exile is not the uber-powerful/force-god you make him/her out to be.

 

But go on, prove me a wrong, show me a quote/s that mention the Exile can learn a force-power/technique within mere seconds...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

He can bring DEATH to the force.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

So can either other Force Sensitive.

[OverPowered Godzilla (OPG)]

Nope.

[DarthReliguim]

And why not?

[Xard]

"As for Lukes power lvl debate........

Lukes power increased becuase he found the kaibur crystal which was said it could increase ones force power one THOUSAND fold. But it is CLEARLY stated in another book that Mace Windus purple lightsaber crystal is the rarest and most powerful crystal and it was believed by the jedi that only the most powerful could wield it so that alone proves that Luke is not ALL POWERFUL AND THE MOST POWERFUL EVER. The Exile can also find the same crystal as luke but storywise it would produce different effects. Not only that but many people claim that since he used electric judgement he is the most powerful but another has mastered that ability as well. Plo coon has mastered it. Mace Windu can used MANY darkside powers that most people don't even know about."

 

Right... It is just fricking crystal, so what that i is powerful? This isn't about crystals... Only most powerful Jedi could wield it? Luke haven't even been born then...And many powerful jedis has already died furing that time...

 

The learning speed...

 

"However, Luke's particular form of lightsaber combat may in the end be something entirely new, with traces of Form III, Form IV and Form V mixed together with his own techniques. It is doubtful that Kenobi and Yoda had time to actually teach him the finer points of the combat Forms. Just like most other things about being a Jedi Knight, Luke would probably have to figure out whole new fighting styles to replace the ones lost during the Great Jedi Purge. It is also probable that the Jensaarai would have passed on knowledge of the lightsaber forms of the Old Jedi Order as their founders were former Jedi Knights and Padawans."

 

So, Luke is great and masterful dueler. He doesn't use one form, he combines them, taking strenghts of them and leaving their weaknesses. That is true mastering of swormanship. We have seen over and over again his ever greatening skills... It looks like he might even being creating new form... Propably greater than Vaapadu.

 

And for learning speed itself...The beginning part of quote: Luke Skywalker's use of Form V is probably as much instinctive as trained. On Bespin, Luke revealed that he was an extraordinarily gifted duelist after only one brief session with Obi-Wan Kenobi and a short time of study with Yoda. After that fateful duel, Luke studied some lightsaber skills from Kenobi's journal and greatly advanced his abilities. Without a Master, it was Luke's unparalleled aptitude which contributed in the impossible advancement of his skills. Onboard the second Death Star, Luke mirrored Darth Vader's own Form V technique and responded with his own furious demonstration of Form V's raw power. Observing swordsmen such as Palpatine might be astonished at such instantaneous learning in a lightsaber duel. Finally, Luke was able to duel Vader on an even footing, and defeated the experienced Dark Lord.

 

 

"Sith Muarader rage - He can used this ability and when it overlaoded he can put his lightsaber in the ground causeing a massive electrical attack that can injury and even kill foes. Vader has also mastered this ability."

 

Hmm...That doesn't fare against electric judgement...

 

"Vapaad - The most powerful lightsaber form ever by far allows to feed off the darksides pwoer and make lightsaber strieks so fast they can be invisible to the human eye. It has many special abilitites including reflecting others pwoers back at them. It was stated that he used Palpatiens own rage and hatred and used it has his own wepaon in the fight. He relfected it back much like a blast bolt. He did the same with the lighting. "

 

It wasn't quicker than eye during fight against Palpy... And again, each from has their weaknesses. With Vaapadu you may not be able to hold darkside back. And then you would enter into terrible rage. If you manage to hold against it long enough opponent with vaapadu would exhaust him/herself, and be easy to kill after that. And combination of other forms really could kick Vaapadu too.

 

And lets not forget that even with Vaapadu Mace wasn't able to beat Sidious. He acts his lost and clearly shows after Ani's turning that he could've pwned him. For example, "Power. Unlimited power".

 

  Windu even states that there was two greater lightsaber user in order. Yoda and...hmm...Dooku, even though he was not jedi anymore during ep. II and III. (personally I thought that Mace and Dooku were quite equal, but that is just my opinion) Yoda is equal or little bit weaker than Palpatine, but better fighter/force user than Mace.

 

and Luke manages to beat Palpy later on EU in lightsaber fight. Neither Yoda or Mace couldn't do it...

 

"Shatterpoint - Mace Windu can predict the furture or sense things very good with this. He can find an enemys shatterpoint or weakness and feed upon it."

 

FEED? He isn't Nihilus. And he still couldn't defeat Palpatine...

 

Force crush? Lol, that would mean that Grievous organic remnants had more hit pointsl than most enemies in k2. Obi just shots them with a blaster and boom. He propably used grip during battle of Coruscant.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

The lightsaber crystal increase Jedis power for one and the crystal do MATTER A LOT.

 

NOWHERE was it mentioned that Luke drops the weaknesses of the forms. You made that up. Also it comes NOWHERE NEAR the pwoer of vapaad. Vapaad is invisible to the human eye in terms of speed and can draw power from the darkside. It allows darksided force powers and rage to make your power way stronger. Plus the super conducting loop will allow him to defeat almsot any foe. If not for Anakin Palaptines sorry little ass would of been messed up and decimated by Mace. Mace renewed his trust in Anakin. NOTHING Lukes lightsaber form can do will even come close to vapaad. It wasn't much different from other lightsaber forms if you watch. Only his mastery of the force allowed him to use it so well at the end BUT he was drawing power from other Jedi in that battle anyway,

 

 

Electric judegemnt would jsut be relfected back from Mace Windus lightsaber. Also electric judegement is LESS powerful than force lighting as mentioned. It is the lightside version of it.

 

 

You always exagerate things to be on your side of the debate when their not. Luke ONLY beat Palaptine WITH LIEAS help. If it wasa fight between Palpatine and Mace WITHOUT Anakin....well we all get the picture. Mace would of won.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Emerald Lightning aka electric judgement is most powerful force power, I say sorry, so I do. "

 

So, Vaapad is all powerful neat-o-killing

[Dark_Raven]

Garbage taken out, carry on.

[OverPowered Godzilla (OPG)]

"As for Lukes power lvl debate........

Lukes power increased becuase he found the kaibur crystal which was said it could increase ones force power one THOUSAND fold. But it is CLEARLY stated in another book that Mace Windus purple lightsaber crystal is the rarest and most powerful crystal and it was believed by the jedi that only the most powerful could wield it so that alone proves that Luke is not ALL POWERFUL AND THE MOST POWERFUL EVER. The Exile can also find the same crystal as luke but storywise it would produce different effects. Not only that but many people claim that since he used electric judgement he is the most powerful but another has mastered that ability as well. Plo coon has mastered it. Mace Windu can used MANY darkside powers that most people don't even know about."

 

Right... It is just fricking crystal, so what that i is powerful? This isn't about crystals... Only most powerful Jedi could wield it? Luke haven't even been born then...And many powerful jedis has already died furing that time...

 

The learning speed...

 

"However, Luke's particular form of lightsaber combat may in the end be something entirely new, with traces of Form III, Form IV and Form V mixed together with his own techniques. It is doubtful that Kenobi and Yoda had time to actually teach him the finer points of the combat Forms. Just like most other things about being a Jedi Knight, Luke would probably have to figure out whole new fighting styles to replace the ones lost during the Great Jedi Purge. It is also probable that the Jensaarai would have passed on knowledge of the lightsaber forms of the Old Jedi Order as their founders were former Jedi Knights and Padawans."

 

So, Luke is great and masterful dueler. He doesn't use one form, he combines them, taking strenghts of them and leaving their weaknesses. That is true mastering of swormanship. We have seen over and over again his ever greatening skills... It looks like he might even being creating new form... Propably greater than Vaapadu.

 

And for learning speed itself...The beginning part of quote: Luke Skywalker's use of Form V is probably as much instinctive as trained. On Bespin, Luke revealed that he was an extraordinarily gifted duelist after only one brief session with Obi-Wan Kenobi and a short time of study with Yoda. After that fateful duel, Luke studied some lightsaber skills from Kenobi's journal and greatly advanced his abilities. Without a Master, it was Luke's unparalleled aptitude which contributed in the impossible advancement of his skills. Onboard the second Death Star, Luke mirrored Darth Vader's own Form V technique and responded with his own furious demonstration of Form V's raw power. Observing swordsmen such as Palpatine might be astonished at such instantaneous learning in a lightsaber duel. Finally, Luke was able to duel Vader on an even footing, and defeated the experienced Dark Lord.

 

 

"Sith Muarader rage - He can used this ability and when it overlaoded he can put his lightsaber in the ground causeing a massive electrical attack that can injury and even kill foes. Vader has also mastered this ability."

 

Hmm...That doesn't fare against electric judgement...

 

"Vapaad - The most powerful lightsaber form ever by far allows to feed off the darksides pwoer and make lightsaber strieks so fast they can be invisible to the human eye. It has many special abilitites including reflecting others pwoers back at them. It was stated that he used Palpatiens own rage and hatred and used it has his own wepaon in the fight. He relfected it back much like a blast bolt. He did the same with the lighting. "

 

It wasn't quicker than eye during fight against Palpy... And again, each from has their weaknesses. With Vaapadu you may not be able to hold darkside back. And then you would enter into terrible rage. If you manage to hold against it long enough opponent with vaapadu would exhaust him/herself, and be easy to kill after that. And combination of other forms really could kick Vaapadu too.

 

And lets not forget that even with Vaapadu Mace wasn't able to beat Sidious. He acts his lost and clearly shows after Ani's turning that he could've pwned him. For example, "Power. Unlimited power".

 

  Windu even states that there was two greater lightsaber user in order. Yoda and...hmm...Dooku, even though he was not jedi anymore during ep. II and III. (personally I thought that Mace and Dooku were quite equal, but that is just my opinion) Yoda is equal or little bit weaker than Palpatine, but better fighter/force user than Mace.

 

and Luke manages to beat Palpy later on EU in lightsaber fight. Neither Yoda or Mace couldn't do it...

 

"Shatterpoint - Mace Windu can predict the furture or sense things very good with this. He can find an enemys shatterpoint or weakness and feed upon it."

 

FEED? He isn't Nihilus. And he still couldn't defeat Palpatine...

 

Force crush? Lol, that would mean that Grievous organic remnants had more hit pointsl than most enemies in k2. Obi just shots them with a blaster and boom. He propably used grip during battle of Coruscant.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

The lightsaber crystal increase Jedis power for one and the crystal do MATTER A LOT.

 

NOWHERE was it mentioned that Luke drops the weaknesses of the forms. You made that up. Also it comes NOWHERE NEAR the pwoer of vapaad. Vapaad is invisible to the human eye in terms of speed and can draw power from the darkside. It allows darksided force powers and rage to make your power way stronger. Plus the super conducting loop will allow him to defeat almsot any foe. If not for Anakin Palaptines sorry little ass would of been messed up and decimated by Mace. Mace renewed his trust in Anakin. NOTHING Lukes lightsaber form can do will even come close to vapaad. It wasn't much different from other lightsaber forms if you watch. Only his mastery of the force allowed him to use it so well at the end BUT he was drawing power from other Jedi in that battle anyway,

 

 

Electric judegemnt would jsut be relfected back from Mace Windus lightsaber. Also electric judegement is LESS powerful than force lighting as mentioned. It is the lightside version of it.

 

 

You always exagerate things to be on your side of the debate when their not. Luke ONLY beat Palaptine WITH LIEAS help. If it wasa fight between Palpatine and Mace WITHOUT Anakin....well we all get the picture. Mace would of won.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Emerald Lightning aka electric judgement is most powerful force power, I say sorry, so I do. "

 

So, Vaapad is all powerful neat-o-killing

[Hokage Yoda]

Nihilus could CRUSH anyone with Thought Bomb. If the Entire PT Jedi Order assembled on Coruscant He could wipe it out In a few Seconds

[Calax]

 

argue all you want... this guy can eat anyone else for breakfast... plus he's got a handy dandy little amulet that multiplies his rage giving him even MORE power.

[Xard]

 

So it is all about teh crystalz? I never said that they don't raise their cababilities. But they aren't the main points that makes characters powerful. They just add boost to their powers.

 

If you keep insisting that "Luke is powerfulz becuz teh crystal" fine, I'm using this way too: Mace Windu is so powerful because of his crystal. Same thing with Exile's personal cystal. You see, Kaiburr crystal is same fricking crystal in books and k2. I just added gameplay stats because that would prove that Exile's personal crystal is even more powerful than Luke's kaiburr.

 

Even if we forget the stats, personal crystal is most powerful in whole game. So that would mean that Exile is also so powerful because of his personal crystal... Since it is stronger than Kaiburr, it buffs Exile even more than kaiburr buffs Luke. So it is the crystal that makes Exile so powerful. without his pretty little pet crystal he is sooooo weak....

 

"Liea and Luke are the daughters and sons of the chosen one. They don't need much training and she was trained well from Luke. They TOGETHER DEFEATED Palpatine."

 

Did I say otherwise?

 

"Good for him. Other characters could of done the same and can also do so against battle droids."

 

Umm...What is good for him?

 

"Yoda was not powerful enough to master vapaad which is on it's own proof that Mace is better at lightsaber dueling"

 

Maybe Yoda didn't need Vaapad, after all. He was powerful enough all ready.

 

Sorry but it is officially stated that Palpatine acted his lost to Windu. He could've killed Mace, but why? What he ultimately wanted during that confrontation was that Anakin turned to DS. It worked. Then Palpy just blasted Mace out of the fricking office. Mace had difficulties as he shielded himself against Palpatines lightning. He managed to "win" the struggle and "melted" Palpatine's face. (In truth Palpy just revealed his true form) As you can see from "powerrrrrrr, unlimitedddd poweeeerrrrr" (one of the most lol moments in ep3 ) he could've blasted Mace with lightning too long to Mace stand against.

 

Did you notice that Mace stroke lightsaber from Palpy just few seconds before Anakin entered into building?

 

In original script Anakin was ment to have a lightsaber duel with Windu. And Anakin would've killed him then.

 

"Every form has weaknesses and it is near impossible to take them out. He still wouldn't ever have the speed or power with those three forms combined either to deal with the vapaad master and creater."

 

How do you know? Palpy could've defeated Vaapad with his lightning.

 

I never said that Luke's combination is perfect, it is impossible to have perfect style of lightsaber fighting. But still, it is seen again and again his whole time increasing powers. Remember he had nearly no training in lightsaber combat. That shows that he has great amount of natural talent to lightsaber fightning.

 

"Yes but just be observing in battle the Exile could learn this form from Mace Windu. He has proved in time and time again STORYWISE in the game WHILE THE FIGHT IS GOING ON."

 

*cough cough* Kreia *cough cough* Their force bond *cough cough* Just few pages away back.

 

"Good for him. Mace could of done the same. Mace could make his blade move so vast it would become invisible to the human eye and relfect Lukes own power. Mace could detect the weakness with shatterpoint inside Luke and feed upon it. He would win in a lightsaber fight. Mace defeated Palptine who could kill hundreds of jedi on his own."

 

Answered all ready.

 

 

"That great. Mace could most likley relfect it back at him with vapaad."

 

Umm...what?

 

"Good for him. Doesn't make him all powerful."

 

No one is allpowerful, though you seem to trying to make Exile to that....

[OverPowered Godzilla (OPG)]

     

 

So it is all about teh crystalz? I never said that they don't raise their cababilities. But they aren't the main points that makes characters powerful. They just add boost to their powers.

 

If you keep insisting that "Luke is powerfulz becuz teh crystal" fine, I'm using this way too: Mace Windu is so powerful because of his crystal. Same thing with Exile's personal cystal. You see, Kaiburr crystal is same fricking crystal in books and k2. I just added gameplay stats because that would prove that Exile's personal crystal is even more powerful than Luke's kaiburr.

 

Even if we forget the stats, personal crystal is most powerful in whole game. So that would mean that Exile is also so powerful because of his personal crystal... Since it is stronger than Kaiburr, it buffs Exile even more than kaiburr buffs Luke. So it is the crystal that makes Exile so powerful. without his pretty little pet crystal he is sooooo weak....

 

"Liea and Luke are the daughters and sons of the chosen one. They don't need much training and she was trained well from Luke. They TOGETHER DEFEATED Palpatine."

 

Did I say otherwise?

 

"Good for him. Other characters could of done the same and can also do so against battle droids."

 

Umm...What is good for him?

 

"Yoda was not powerful enough to master vapaad which is on it's own proof that Mace is better at lightsaber dueling"

 

Maybe Yoda didn't need Vaapad, after all. He was powerful enough all ready.

 

  Sorry but it is officially stated that Palpatine acted his lost to Windu. He could've killed Mace, but why? What he ultimately wanted during that confrontation was that Anakin turned to DS. It worked. Then Palpy just blasted Mace out of the fricking office. Mace had difficulties as he shielded himself against Palpatines lightning. He managed to "win" the struggle and "melted" Palpatine's face. (In truth Palpy just revealed his true form) As you can see from "powerrrrrrr, unlimitedddd poweeeerrrrr" (one of the most lol moments in ep3 ) he could've blasted Mace with lightning too long to Mace stand against.

 

Did you notice that Mace stroke lightsaber from Palpy just few seconds before Anakin entered into building?

 

In original script Anakin was ment to have a lightsaber duel with Windu. And Anakin would've killed him then.

 

"Every form has weaknesses and it is near impossible to take them out. He still wouldn't ever have the speed or power with those three forms combined either to deal with the vapaad master and creater."

 

How do you know? Palpy could've defeated Vaapad with his lightning.

 

I never said that Luke's combination is perfect, it is impossible to have perfect style of lightsaber fighting. But still, it is seen again and again his whole time increasing powers. Remember he had nearly no training in lightsaber combat. That shows that he has great amount of natural talent to lightsaber fightning.

 

"Yes but just be observing in battle the Exile could learn this form from Mace Windu. He has proved in time and time again STORYWISE in the game WHILE THE FIGHT IS GOING ON."

 

*cough cough* Kreia *cough cough* Their force bond *cough cough* Just few pages away back.

 

"Good for him. Mace could of done the same. Mace could make his blade move so vast it would become invisible to the human eye and relfect Lukes own power. Mace could detect the weakness with shatterpoint inside Luke and feed upon it. He would win in a lightsaber fight. Mace defeated Palptine who could kill hundreds of jedi on his own."

 

Answered all ready.

 

 

"That great. Mace could most likley relfect it back at him with vapaad."

 

Umm...what?

 

"Good for him. Doesn't make him all powerful."

 

No one is allpowerful, though you seem to trying to make Exile to that....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Yes the crystals do make them powerful.

 

 

Um no the Exiles crystal is not more powerful. How many times must I tell you that is ALL gameplay. The kaiburr crystal is different in the game. Did your brain understand that? Those are GAMEPLAY STATS. STORYWISE the Kiaburr crystal could increase your power ONE THOUSAND FOLD which is why Luke has so much power. Hmmm are you still with me. Read the books. The crystals are not the same. Do NOT add gaemplay into. ONLY story. STORYWISE the Exiles crystal reflected his own power and was bonded to him meaning it was on his power lvl meaning it only increases his power twice as much instead of ONE THOUSAND FOLD. GOT THAT!

 

 

 

THAT'S GAMEPLAY ALONE. IT MEANS NOTHING STORYWISE. IN GAMEPLAY ALMSOT EVERYONE CAN SURVIVE A LIGHTSABER HIT. GAMEPLAY. REPEAT THAT ONE THOUSAND TIMES UNTILL YOU UNDERSTAND THAT AND THAN READ THE STORY AND PAY ATTENTION. The Exiles crystal doubled his states and Luke increased his force powers ONE THOUSAND FOLD. HUGE DIFFERENCE.

 

 

.....

 

 

 

........

 

 

 

Yoda was a lesser lightsaber dueler than Mace, Hello comon sense. Yoda was a FORCE USER. He was a COUNSILER who concentrated on the force and KNOWLEDGE. Mace Windu was a weapons master who focused on RAW POWER AND COMBAT ABILTIES SUCH AS A LIGHTSABER. Anakin even refered to Mace in episode II for power and Yoda for WISDOM.

 

 

Where was that officially stated. It was STATED NOWHERE EVER IN THE ENTIRE HISTORY DAMNIT. Read the books and PAY ATTNETION. NONE WHO MADE THE MOVIE OR BOOKS CONFIRMED THAT. It is a mere excuse for palpatine fanboys. It was on interviews that Mace DID WIN FROM THE CREATERS OF THE FILM. Argue with that if you wish but don't lie and twist things and speak words out of their mouths when it was NEVER EVER stated that Palaptine faked it. He used his vapaad to flect ALL the pwoers Palaptine had. Duh weren't you watching. Stop maknig stuff up. Yes Palpatine unleashed his true form but never the less it wasn't hurting Mace who was reflecting it back but the Sith master absorbed it for his own benefit. Neverthe less Mace would of won because nothing Palps could do would hurt him. It was the juyo master vs the vapaad master and the vapaad Master DID win the lightsaber duel and there were no objects to throw at Mace so all the pwoers of Palaptine owuld of been reflected and Mace would of won. THERES NOTHING palps could of done.

 

 

So what. That matters not if you read the books and listen to interviews from the creaters.

 

 

No Anakin would not of killed him. There is ZERO proof. Obi-won defeated Anakin even when he was using all his rage. A master of the order such as Mace would of moped the floor with Anakin.

 

 

Oh mabey because vapaad has a super conducting loop that relfects powers back to the enemys. Duh. How blind can you be. It's right it front of your eyes. All the evidence is there. Mace would of reflected it back jsut like he did. Palpatine NEEDED Anakins help to live and ONLY when his lightsaber was cut from his hand was Palpatine able to hurt Mace.

 

 

Lukes style of lightsaber fighting still never comapred to vapaad.

 

 

I won't even bother replying to the rest since you hvae NO clue as to what your talking about and have spoken words out of others mouths and have done no research. EVERYTHING in the storys argue with what you have to say yet you make up excuses.

[Jediphile]

THAT'S GAMEPLAY ALONE. IT MEANS NOTHING STORYWISE. IN GAMEPLAY ALMSOT EVERYONE CAN SURVIVE A LIGHTSABER HIT. GAMEPLAY. REPEAT THAT ONE THOUSAND TIMES UNTILL YOU UNDERSTAND THAT AND THAN READ THE STORY AND PAY ATTENTION. The Exiles crystal doubled his states and Luke increased his force powers ONE THOUSAND FOLD. HUGE DIFFERENCE.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Pardon me, but you're the one who keeps arguing powerlevels, crystal powers, and so on. Those are all stats, and stats are gameplay, not story. And the stats are silly compared to the plot no matter how you look at it.

 

Consider the saber battle in "Return of the Jedi". According to the d20 RPG rulebook (which is what the KotOR stats are based on), Darth Vader was at least an 18th level character (Fringer 1/Jedi Guardian 11/Sith Lord 6, stats from beginning of Episode IV), while The Emperor was a level 20 character (Noble 4, Dark Side Devotee 6, Sith Lord 10 - stats as per Episode VI). Luke, however, is described as being (at the end of the film) a 9th level character (Fringer 2/Jedi Guardian 7). Now how the heck did Luke *ever* win that fight?!?

 

Even the Star Wars writers say that the stats should be taken with several grains of salt.

 

If the creators want to do a story where Mace Windu, Revan, Exar Kun, Exile, Palpatine and whomever else join together and fight a lone Luke Skywalker, then Luke will win if that's what the writers want to happen in the plot. Period.

 

Yoda was a lesser lightsaber dueler than Mace, Hello comon sense. Yoda was a FORCE USER. He was a COUNSILER who concentrated on the force and KNOWLEDGE.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

That's funny... Because I could have sworn I saw Yoda fight some pretty serious saber battles in the two most recent movies... But then I must be remembering it wrong...

[OverPowered Godzilla (OPG)]

THAT'S GAMEPLAY ALONE. IT MEANS NOTHING STORYWISE. IN GAMEPLAY ALMSOT EVERYONE CAN SURVIVE A LIGHTSABER HIT. GAMEPLAY. REPEAT THAT ONE THOUSAND TIMES UNTILL YOU UNDERSTAND THAT AND THAN READ THE STORY AND PAY ATTENTION. The Exiles crystal doubled his states and Luke increased his force powers ONE THOUSAND FOLD. HUGE DIFFERENCE.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Pardon me, but you're the one who keeps arguing powerlevels, crystal powers, and so on. Those are all stats, and stats are gameplay, not story. And the stats are silly compared to the plot no matter how you look at it.

 

Consider the saber battle in "Return of the Jedi". According to the d20 RPG rulebook (which is what the KotOR stats are based on), Darth Vader was at least an 18th level character (Fringer 1/Jedi Guardian 11/Sith Lord 6, stats from beginning of Episode IV), while The Emperor was a level 20 character (Noble 4, Dark Side Devotee 6, Sith Lord 10 - stats as per Episode VI). Luke, however, is described as being (at the end of the film) a 9th level character (Fringer 2/Jedi Guardian 7). Now how the heck did Luke *ever* win that fight?!?

 

Even the Star Wars writers say that the stats should be taken with several grains of salt.

 

If the creators want to do a story where Mace Windu, Revan, Exar Kun, Exile, Palpatine and whomever else join together and fight a lone Luke Skywalker, then Luke will win if that's what the writers want to happen in the plot. Period.

 

Yoda was a lesser lightsaber dueler than Mace, Hello comon sense. Yoda was a FORCE USER. He was a COUNSILER who concentrated on the force and KNOWLEDGE.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

That's funny... Because I could have sworn I saw Yoda fight some pretty serious saber battles in the two most recent movies... But then I must be remembering it wrong...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

 

The story says the kaiburr crystal increases your force pwoers one thousand fold. HUGE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN gameplay.

 

 

 

 

 

Yes Yoda is impressive but Mace is better.

[03szubertb]

"The story says the kaiburr crystal increases your force pwoers one thousand fold. HUGE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN gameplay."

I think they're just exagurating. If it really did that, Luke would be suddenly all powerful and there wouldn't be a big struggle against the Vong. It's just like that as the author wants the readers to go "WOW!"

 

"Yes Yoda is impressive but Mace is better."

But Mace admitted it himself. Yoda can out-duel him.