NWN2 only 20 hours long?

[alanschu]

I dunno, if I came across a creature in a game I couldn't hurt... I think my next thought would be to run from it.

 

But that's just me.  :ph34r:

 

I know several FPS that contain "invincible" enemies till you meet certain requirements. How do you know you should not activate those?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Good point! ++BugCount;

 

Being told to NOT fight and to RUN right before hand was a good indication IMO.

Edited April 25, 2006 by alanschu

[Judge Hades]

Nines fought and killed his. There have been plenty of games that I have played in the past that NPCs told me to run, but I stayed and fought and won the encounter.

Edited April 25, 2006 by Judge Hades

[Tigranes]

If you could not figure out to trap it between the observatory doors or out run it for a certain amount of time, is that not the stupidity of the player for not using tactics in a given situation?

 

You're right, but at the same time, one could consider the enemy as a challenge and attempt to beat it. A player would only be at fault if he NEVER tried the above option and just kept fighting it 20,30 times.

 

The problem was that many RPGs (esp. JRPGs) have enemies you cannot initially harm, or are seemingly immune to many normal attacks - but are eventually defeatable, whether through regular tactical means or more scripted actions. At least Troika can get credit for not holding your hand through it such as "TIP: WHY DONT YOU TRY THE DOOR?"

[Volourn]

"Being told to NOT fight and to RUN right before hand was a good indication IMO."

 

Well.. come on.. how many times have you played a CRPG where some npc tells x is very dangerous and you will die if you go to x place, or fight y creature than you go and do it anyways as dumb adventurers do and the battle is eaisly doable. Heck, it happens in BL a lot at that so sayiong z npc tells you to run proves nothing to me.

[Dark_Raven]

Nines fought and killed his.  There have been plenty of games that I have played in the past that NPCs told me to run, but I stayed and fought and won the encounter.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

He was special, your character is not. Simple.

[alanschu]

If you could not figure out to trap it between the observatory doors or out run it for a certain amount of time, is that not the stupidity of the player for not using tactics in a given situation?

 

You're right, but at the same time, one could consider the enemy as a challenge and attempt to beat it. A player would only be at fault if he NEVER tried the above option and just kept fighting it 20,30 times.

 

The problem was that many RPGs (esp. JRPGs) have enemies you cannot initially harm, or are seemingly immune to many normal attacks - but are eventually defeatable, whether through regular tactical means or more scripted actions. At least Troika can get credit for not holding your hand through it such as "TIP: WHY DONT YOU TRY THE DOOR?"

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

That's just it, they gave strong hints.

 

Niles spent a good chunk of time telling you to not fight the werewolf, and that you had to run.

[alanschu]

"Being told to NOT fight and to RUN right before hand was a good indication IMO."

 

Well.. come on.. how many times have you played a CRPG where some npc tells x is very dangerous and you will die if you go to x place, or fight y creature than you go and do it anyways as dumb adventurers do and the battle is eaisly doable. Heck, it happens in BL a lot at that so sayiong z npc tells you to run proves nothing to me.

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Not many of them are followed by encounters where you do ZERO damage to the enemy.

 

And no, I don't know of many incidents in Bloodlines where NPCs tell you to run away. Please enlighten me.

[Judge Hades]

He was special, your character is not. Simple.

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Like I said, bad design. There was different rules for the NPCs and PCs and that is just bad and asshat design on Troika's part.

[Volourn]

"He was special, your character is not. Simple."

 

yeha; but your character comes from a newbie vamp to ultra power in a matter of like a moth or so game time. I mean you beat some very powerful vampires, undead hunters, and demons; but not werewolves? LOLOLOLOLOLLIPOP

[Llyranor]

Making the werewolf invincible for all intents and purposes was a pretty weak crutch for imposing their awesome design on the player, though.

[Judge Hades]

And no, I don't know of many incidents in Bloodlines where NPCs tell you to run away.  Please enlighten me.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I was talking about other games.

[alanschu]

And no, I don't know of many incidents in Bloodlines where NPCs tell you to run away.  Please enlighten me.

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I was talking about other games.

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I wasn't responding to you.

[Hassat Hunter]

Llyranor I think there is some reason why devs do that. I don't understand the reasoning to bash Bethesda for not allowing to drop quest items if the same cannot be done in ANY other modern RPG. Tried to do it with both Kotors... you gonna have a hard time.

 

Now is OE so extremely incompetant as to rely on "non-sellable, non-droppable" items or has it some other reason, which could be like:

Having actual game-events happen based on a quest-item. In the older games that would be harder, since you had to indeed calculate the risk that the player might have dropped it. Thus the quests were more of the "talk/journal" type of stuff than the actual having of some item.

 

WHY take both systems and mix them? That would make the worst system in RPG-history... and is probably the reason why nobody did so yet...

[Volourn]

"And no, I don't know of many incidents in Bloodlines where NPCs tell you to run away. Please enlighten me."

 

Pick a quest pretty much - movie monster mania, graveyard, haunted mansion, sewers, the gargoyle and the list goes on...

 

 

"Not many of them are followed by encounters where you do ZERO damage to the enemy."

 

This is true, and is what cued me in when I tried fighting it once.

Edited April 25, 2006 by Volourn

[alanschu]

Now is OE so extremely incompetant as to rely on "non-sellable, non-droppable" items or has it some other reason, which could be like:

Having actual game-events happen based on a quest-item. In the older games that would be harder, since you had to indeed calculate the risk that the player might have dropped it. Thus the quests were more of the "talk/journal" type of stuff than the actual having of some item

 

WHAT????!??!

[Llyranor]

Meh, lazy linear design.

[alanschu]

"And no, I don't know of many incidents in Bloodlines where NPCs tell you to run away. Please enlighten me."

 

Pick a quest pretty much - movie monster mania, graveyard, haunted mansion, sewers, the gargoyle and the list goes on...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

I wasn't told to run away from the haunted mansion. I was told to go INTO the haunted mansion. As for the graveyard, I was asked to protect the place. I was also asked to investigate the chinese theatre. The only person that told me to "go away" was the gargoyle itself.

 

As for the movie monster mania, it was some red-shirt NPC with a 2-bit part. Not Nines Rodriguez who, after I insisted that we fight more than once in the conversation with him, reiterated that we have to run. Not Nines Rodriguez, who was an NPC that was established as being important from the opening video, and very integral to the plot.

[Hassat Hunter]

I was talking about other games.

 

Several bosses in FPS/RPG are invernable till certain events are set into motion. I could point you toward the game Painkiller and if you actually finished DS2 you also know what I talk about (alot of people had trouble with that too... MAJOR BUG!!!11111!!1ONE1!!! VALDIS WON'T GET HURT!!! was a common thread title)

 

WHAT????!??!

 

In the old games like BG and PNJ questupdates (of the mainquest) usually were more because of convo options and actual triggers of being there and/or killing enemies than for example Kotor2's possession of the HK parts in order to build HK-47...

 

Oh, and to add heat... we all blame Troika for the wherewolf now, where is the blame for SION on Korriban, eh... damn, you guys must all hate OE seeing your replies of how you hate everything that is put in other games That OE actually uses itself!!!

Edited April 25, 2006 by Hassat Hunter

[Llyranor]

Does an idiot who throws away HK's parts away 'just because' deserve to be able to build him again?

[Hassat Hunter]

The idiot can't...

 

Not asfar as I know atleast

 

Lets hope Obsidian avoids such things in their games.

 

You are too late...see 2 posts above

Edited April 25, 2006 by Hassat Hunter

[Judge Hades]

Well, no one is going to convince me that the werewolf wasn't bad and asshot design from Troika or that a direct combat with a creature is a "puzzle" or some sort. It also severely deviated from canon material and basically made it that different rules apply to NPCs and PCs which is poor design work for a CRPG. It was badly done and executed, plain and simple.

 

Lets hope Obsidian avoids such things in their games.

[Tigranes]

n the old games like BG and PNJ questupdates (of the mainquest) usually were more because of convo options and actual triggers of being there and/or killing enemies than for example Kotor2's possession of the HK parts in order to build HK-47...

 

Nope. Possibly the item-possession trigger was utilised a bit less, but it was certainly prevalent. You were usually given good clues about quest items, but this was sometimes the reason people would get stuck with no way forward in older RPGs. (I mean pre-BG.)

[alanschu]

In the old games like BG and PNJ questupdates (of the mainquest) usually were more because of convo options and actual triggers of being there and/or killing enemies than for example Kotor2's possession of the HK parts in order to build HK-47...

 

I'm talking about the older games like the entire Ultima series. Or the Gold Box games. And which game is PNJ?

 

Oh, and to add heat... we all blame Troika for the wherewolf now, where is the blame for SION on Korriban, eh... damn, you guys must all hate OE seeing your replies of how you hate everything that is put in other games That OE actually uses itself!!!

 

I didn't care that Sion was invincible, and it's clear not many other people did either. When you say "we all," you should really rephrase it to Hades.

[Craigboy2]

He's not very smart Mr. Sawyer.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

You aren't very imaginative with your insults, boy.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

But I'm tired......

[Llyranor]

Ultimately, the problem with 'have item, proceed with story' design is that it is COMPLETELY linear. Lazy boring design.