That's one of those anger moments. You play to completion, get to the ending, the game is done. Like wtf? That is it?

 

Just be glad you got there and didn't hit "bad design" on Telos Citadel Statin, Telos Academy or the Onderon Palace... which I still call bugs despite whatever people here try to tell me...

Players that need their hands held while playing a CRPG should not be playing a CRPG.

If you threw away the Amulet of Kings, then later on tried to continue the main story but forgot which orifice you stuck it in, is it a bug? Would it even be bad design?

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Neither. That would be a STUPID MOVE OF THE PLAYER.

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Check and mate, or bug?

 

Is it really the devs' job to make sure their players aren't complete morons?

 

Now, even cooler would have been if doing so would have triggered another branch in the story, where you eventually find out someone picked it up, and you have to hunt it down or something.

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I thought it was the developers job to make their game unbreakable.

Or his sucking up

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I don't really need to know, Craigboy2's sexual preference. NOT LISTENING!

Well, it's understandable and not bad design if the player exhibits an abnormal level of stupidity...since it's obvious the Amulet of Kings is needed to further the story. It's bad design if the item in question isn't obviously required later on.

 

Like some given keys. Tried to drop all for some testing and couldn't drop one because "quest item"... due to the lack of a decent name it took me quite some time to figure out for which of my quests I needed that one...

I thought it was the developers job to make their game unbreakable.

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Unbreakable in normal gameplay, but not to player stupidity. If you are going to be stupid, live and die with the consequences.

Well, it's understandable and not bad design if the player exhibits an abnormal level of stupidity...since it's obvious the Amulet of Kings is needed to further the story. It's bad design if the item in question isn't obviously required later on.

 

Like some given keys. Tried to drop all for some testing and couldn't drop one because "quest item"... due to the lack of a decent name it took me quite some time to figure out for which of my quests I needed that one...

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Hmm, they probably intended for it to be obvious. BugCount++

With so many people clamoring for a truly open game in which there will be serious consequences, it makes sense that the player can dump any item, even quest critical items. Of course, that would be a terrible design in a CRPG. Sounds great to have a truly open ended game, but oh, the wailing and gnashing of teeth.

See, bugs and bad design aren't mutually exclusive. If you need to have an item at one point and can't continue without it, if you 'lost' it, oops. "Game-stopping". You can't continue with the game, is it a bug? You could argue that, if only for accusing the game of not being idiot-proof. Is not providing proper idiot-proofing bug-worthy? Perhaps.

 

Is it bad design? If you made it so that you could only accomplish it one way if you wanted to proceed, and that there was the possibility of 'failure', perhaps having alternative paths would have been nice, no? Bad design? What about bug? What about both, or neither?

 

You could correct the 'bug', but the design could still be bad in that there's only one way to proceed. Of course, now it's idiot-proofed. Win-win, or lose-lose? Or neither?

If you threw away the Amulet of Kings, then later on tried to continue the main story but forgot which orifice you stuck it in, is it a bug? Would it even be bad design?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Neither. That would be a STUPID MOVE OF THE PLAYER.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Check and mate, or bug?

 

Is it really the devs' job to make sure their players aren't complete morons?

 

Now, even cooler would have been if doing so would have triggered another branch in the story, where you eventually find out someone picked it up, and you have to hunt it down or something.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I thought it was the developers job to make their game unbreakable.

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I thought that was quality control.

I thought it was the developers job to make their game unbreakable.

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Unbreakable in normal gameplay, but not to player stupidity. If you are going to be stupid, live and die with the consequences.

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So, the player is an idiot if they dropped a "Rusty Iron Key" they found at level 1, which would then be needed at level 50 to open one particular chest in the end game? There's two extremes there, hand holding by not allowing quest items to be dropped, or screwing the player over completely...

I thought it was the developers job to make their game unbreakable.

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Unbreakable in normal gameplay, but not to player stupidity. If you are going to be stupid, live and die with the consequences.

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Like werewolves for example?

Low blow, Raven.

I thought it was the developers job to make their game unbreakable.

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Unbreakable in normal gameplay, but not to player stupidity. If you are going to be stupid, live and die with the consequences.

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So, the player is an idiot if they dropped a "Rusty Iron Key" they found at level 1, which would then be needed at level 50 to open one particular chest in the end game? There's two extremes there, hand holding by not allowing quest items to be dropped, or screwing the player over completely...

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That would be asinine design.

I thought it was the developers job to make their game unbreakable.

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Unbreakable in normal gameplay, but not to player stupidity. If you are going to be stupid, live and die with the consequences.

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Like werewolves for example?

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Dark Ravowned!

See, we've made the question of time in NWN2 irrelevant ourselves. Why should Feargus worry about clarifying our statements. If you don't like the wether on the Obsidian boards, just wait fifteen minutes. It'll change.

That would be asinine design.

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Bingo.

Well, that is a bit of extreme there, but there needs to be a clue of an item's importance. Such as the name Amulet of Kings makes it sound important. However it was simply named ruby amulet it is fodder for the merchant to sell so I can get better armor.

Hmm, they probably intended for it to be obvious.  BugCount++

 

*Sigh*

That was a reply on Lovewolf's "if the objects are quite obviously linked to the plot"... in this case this key was not. If I had stored it somewhere, who knows I could even link it with the door I needed to open. Is that me being an idiot? Maybe...but I wonder how many gamers will recall the use of that one item with a name like "Iron Key" 100+ further into the game...

That would be asinine design.

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Bingo.

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I also liked the degree of assonance present ^_^

Why should you be able to open that chest at all costs? Isn't that the point of inventory management? The player prioritizes what s/he keeps. If s/he decides a key she found in said dungeon is useless and throws it away, boo freaking hoo.

 

As alanschu says, though, asinine design LOL. Just because you don't reward stupidity doesn't mean you have completely random design.

Edited April 25, 200619 yr by Llyranor

I thought it was the developers job to make their game unbreakable.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Unbreakable in normal gameplay, but not to player stupidity. If you are going to be stupid, live and die with the consequences.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Like werewolves for example?

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Dark Ravowned!

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I have an excellent memory.

I thought it was the developers job to make their game unbreakable.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Unbreakable in normal gameplay, but not to player stupidity. If you are going to be stupid, live and die with the consequences.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Like werewolves for example?

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Dark Ravowned!

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I have an excellent memory.

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It is one of the Obsidz forums greatest hits :cool: (w00t)

Hmm, they probably intended for it to be obvious.  BugCount++

 

*Sigh*

That was a reply on Lovewolf's "if the objects are quite obviously linked to the plot"... in this case this key was not. If I had stored it somewhere, who knows I could even link it with the door I needed to open. Is that me being an idiot? Maybe...but I wonder how many gamers will recall the use of that one item with a name like "Iron Key" 100+ further into the game...

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Exactly. A hardcore bug.

Let's ask me this. If NWN2 had an item called "metal block"or so in the tut, would you take it with you?

 

And then when you notice 10 hours into the game you suddenly needed this metal block to climb onto something... would YOU prefer that?

 

Kotor1 and 2 did quest-item sorting on a good way, Oblivion does, WHY does everybody wan't the ability to screw themselves over?