Been to my first Game Developers Conference

[Craigboy2]

Indie game developer = a developer that is not owned by, or under contract to a publisher.

 

 

It has been an exhausting 2 days(its lunchbreak now, going to continue this afternoon) so Im just going to write down some quick points on what we came up with during the debate and lectures. http://www.thedebates.org

• We must find other ways to finance games than signing with an established publisher. This is the trickiest point and noone really has the magic answer but in Scandinavia we're looking into independant private or corporate investors, ordinary bank investment loans and subsidizing or funding by the state or EU (the same model that is used for film production)
   
  
• We must eliminate as many middle men as possible in the chain, ideally, the developer should be able to sell their games directly to the public. This would lead to more money for the developers aswellas as much cheaper games for the public. Today we have a huge money-eating chain of "Developer>Publisher>Distributor>Retailer>You" and its usually much more complex than that.
   
  
• We have to build more well known"big name" services like Steam that allow for direct purchase and download of games, but without them being actual companies looking to make a profit. Ideally it would be a joint venture run by an organisation of game developers that did take more from the sales then it needed to keep running. It shouldnt impose as much on your system as Steam does either, it shouldnt be stranger than a website.
   
  
• We should develop more open source, free software development tools and engines for people to use in making indie games so that we can build up a real underground of developers. Ideally, all you should need to make a good game is a computer and the will to do it.
   
  
• And most importantly, we should stop talking and start acting.
  

Got any other idea on what we could do to promote independant game development?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Offering more game devloping classes at colleges?

[Craigboy2]

Not to knock off Steam and other Direct Download ideas but when I spend money I like to have something tangible like discs, a manual, and the such.  Call me old fashion but it is one of the things I look for in a game.

 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

You are old fashioned. :D

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

And if your comp crashes, than you're screwed.

[Kaftan Barlast]

Nope. When you buy something, your purchase will be stored in the database and youll be able to download it again if you have any trouble

[Hassat Hunter]

Way to secure something... what if I "accidentily" slipped that database code to laods of friends?

[mkreku]

The database is stored on the servers of the company you purchased the product from, not on your own computer.

[metadigital]

Way to secure something... what if I "accidentily" slipped that database code to laods of friends?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Mr Wookiee, meet Steam.

[DemonKing]

All I really carea bout is a printed manual and the games on DVD/CD.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I used to be like you, but have come to embrace Digital Distribution:

 

1. I have hundreds of CDs/DVDs/Boxes lying around and I just don't have space for them all, considering my other collections of comics, role-playing game books, board games, Star Wars figures and other junk (which I also have to rationalise).

 

2. No new game boxes/discs/manuals lying around means the wife has no idea I just wasted money on a new game.

 

3. It can be substantially cheaper and faster to download a game - for example I just got Commandos:Strike Force from IGN's Direct2Drive service for $29.95US but if I waited for the boxed edition to be released here in Australia later this week I'd pay almost double the price. As it is I'm playing before the official Australian release *and* saving money.

 

4. I'd rather my money went direct to the developer than to someone like EA.

[Hassat Hunter]

The database is stored on the servers of the company you purchased the product from, not on your own computer.

 

What stops you from allowing friends to DL it with your "copy" then if you can also DL it multiple times?

 

Mr Wookiee, meet Steam. 

 

Steam sucks. One packaged version for me SVP instead of a system that asks 6498 GB to install (really, it asked that! It's no lie )

[metadigital]

Steam allows me to log onto any PC that is internet-conneted (download Steam, if necessary, which is < 1MB), and play all of my registered Steam games.

 

That's brilliant.

[Nartwak]

steam steam lol

[Hassat Hunter]

Steam allows me to log onto any PC that is internet-conneted (download Steam, if necessary, which is < 1MB), and play all of my registered Steam games.

 

That's brilliant.

 

I can walk to any PC in the freaking world, jack in my CD and tada... I can play ALOT sooner than I could if I had to DL it first.

I could also take patches with me on CD instead of DL'ing that same 500+MB every damn time again on every PC...

 

Besides that I don't have spyware like Steam running than; potentially hogging system resources etc.

Edited April 11, 2006 by Hassat Hunter

[Kaftan Barlast]

The point of distributing games online(our way) is to eliminate as much of the cost and hassle of distribution as possible. Sure, having a CD and a nice box to put on the shelf is great but if we didnt do that, youd be able to buy games at 60% of the cost and most of that money would go directly to the developer.

 

 

Steam is a bad example of such a service because its extremely intrusive and impractical. That applies to most copy protection applications aswell.

[metadigital]

Steam allows me to log onto any PC that is internet-conneted (download Steam, if necessary, which is < 1MB), and play all of my registered Steam games.

 

That's brilliant.

I can walk to any PC in the freaking world, jack in my CD and tada... I can play ALOT sooner than I could if I had to DL it first.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Technically you would have to uninstall it on the previous PC, first.

I could also take patches with me on CD instead of DL'ing that same 500+MB every damn time again on every PC...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Not sure why you are quoting weird figures for Steam and downloading. I had to re-install Steam after I formated my harddrive. Once I had contacted the Steam website, it was installed in about 10 minutes. (I don't know how it worked that fast, but I tested it and played all the games I installed.)

Besides that I don't have spyware like Steam running than; potentially hogging system resources etc.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The subterfuge employed in the initial delivery of Half-Life 2 was a little bit rude, but only if a customer bought the game without an internet connection (as this wasn't stated as a prerequisite).

 

I'm not sure why you are all up in arms about Steam: what spyware? Actually, forget it, I'm not really interested.

 

Anyway, you have neatly diverted attention from the original point (and it didn't work): I mentioned Steam because you were posing a copy-protection issue:

The database is stored on the servers of the company you purchased the product from, not on your own computer.

 

What stops you from allowing friends to DL it with your "copy" then if you can also DL it multiple times?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

which cannot be done with Steam.

 

So, you see, DL is quite a safe way to deliver product. Even if you have such compelling arguments as:

Mr Wookiee, meet Steam. 

Steam sucks.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[Llyranor]

SUPPORT PUBLISHERS! THEY KEEP THE INDUSTRY ALIVE!! DOWN WITH GREEDY DEVELOPERS!

[Hassat Hunter]

Technically you would have to uninstall it on the previous PC, first.

 

In reality, you do not...

 

Not sure why you are quoting weird figures for Steam and downloading. I had to re-install Steam after I formated my harddrive. Once I had contacted the Steam website, it was installed in about 10 minutes. (I don't know how it worked that fast, but I tested it and played all the games I installed.)

 

Note "patches"... Metadigital reading comprehension -1.

 

The subterfuge employed in the initial delivery of Half-Life 2 was a little bit rude, but only if a customer bought the game without an internet connection (as this wasn't stated as a prerequisite).

 

I'm not sure why you are all up in arms about Steam: what spyware? Actually, forget it, I'm not really interested.

 

The fact it logs your activities, hardware etc. With SiN Episodes they wan't to monitor every minute when you play what you do as to alter later episodes. Can be seen as revolutionary improvement or dirty spyware activity... (easy to note under which one I would place it)

(WTF is wrong with a questionaire form?)

 

which cannot be done with Steam.

 

And why can't you do so easily (note I gave up on any steam transactions and games using it after a few meatings with Steam)...?

Edited April 11, 2006 by Hassat Hunter

[metadigital]

Easily? Because Steam maintain a central database that they use to check licences for duplicates and fraud.

[Hassat Hunter]

And how would they detect if the DL was a Fraud one by your friend or a legit one by the seller of said copy for another PC?

[jaguars4ever]

:calax:

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

What emoticon does ^that represent?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[Hassat Hunter]

Maybe it will be good to provide an example.

 

We take company X, which we call Troika. Company X makes several buggy games and goes broken. Closing the company.

Now let's see what happens if they use modern CD technology, and what would have happened if they used futuristic Internet-DL-Technology.

 

CD.

Gamers will still be able to buy and play the Troika products if they like, even if the company is no more

 

Downloading of games.

Since Troika went down they lock their servers. Nobody can buy new copies of their products, and if one has problems with ones PC and has to Format or something they cannot re-install the game (since server down; thus no DL'ing of a new copy). Even if the gamer would have liked to play said game years later he cannot...; unlike with the other technology. Also if devs abondon games gamers can no longer play them since they are no longer available online... (while a CD allowed one to still play unsuported games)

Additional side-effect; More cluthering of HardDisks (since nobody ever uninstalls games any more out of fear of never being able to play those games again, and Formats and other systemrepairs which force you to loose your data will be set FAR back, even permanent, causing a large gamma of technical issues not kept to just a performance loss...)

Edited April 12, 2006 by Hassat Hunter

[Kaftan Barlast]

But sometime the corporate world just sneaks up on you. Ive just been offered to be part of a group that will produce animations (hand and MoCap) for an upcomming AAA title which will be a an Action-adventure/RPG. We'll be meeting next week to see who makes the team and the conditions.

 

 

Ill be doing this as a student, but Ill be employed, paid and forced to sign an NDA

[DemonKing]

Downloading of games.

Since Troika went down they lock their servers. Nobody can buy new copies of their products, and if one has problems with ones PC and has to Format or something they cannot re-install the game (since server down; thus no DL'ing of a new copy). Even if the gamer would have liked to play said game years later he cannot...; unlike with the other technology. Also if devs abondon games gamers can no longer play them since they are no longer available online... (while a CD allowed one to still play unsuported games)

Additional side-effect; More cluthering of HardDisks (since nobody ever uninstalls games any more out of fear of never being able to play those games again, and Formats and other systemrepairs which force you to loose your data will be set FAR back, even permanent, causing a large gamma of technical issues not kept to just a performance loss...)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Actually it's only a problem if the developer actually controls the on-line distribution path (eg Valve going out of business would screw Steam bigtime). Most companies use 3rd party services to distribute their titles online (eg Steam, Direct2Drive etc), so the developer going out of business would mean you could still play any of their titles you legally purchased.

[Kaftan Barlast]

Exactly. And with this system the developer will get so much more of the profits from the sales of games that the risk of bancrupcy is much less. Furthermore, if a company "goes down" they will still control their own IPs and so could very well decide to declare all their software free for download, modification and distribution so that other devs could benefit from their technology.

 

 

 

ALSO:

 

Newest news from another conference for euro game developers. There is talk of establishing an "asset collection" for devs big and small where members of the European Game Dev Association(or what theyre called) can add and take material for use in games. Everything from models to middleware or snippets of code and complete engines. The idea is actually borrowed from EA Games that are setting up such a system right now to speed up development times

 

What it would mean is that a dev could produce games much faster because there would be no need to make things from scratch. You could take readymade assets modify them and put them in your game.

 

I know the first thing that you think is "But then all games will look/be alike!". But that is not true, not all things are visible to the player and those who are would be modified beyond recognistion.

[Gorth]

Nope. When you buy something, your purchase will be stored in the database and youll be able to download it again if you have any trouble

My only problem with that is, based on experience, that the cd's/dvd's sometimes outlast the developers/publishers when they fold

 

One reason for me to prefer physical media with a friggin possibility to back it up (i.e. no weird copy protection schemes).

Edited April 13, 2006 by Gorth

[Hassat Hunter]

Actually it's only a problem if the developer actually controls the on-line distribution path (eg Valve going out of business would screw Steam bigtime). Most companies use 3rd party services to distribute their titles online (eg Steam, Direct2Drive etc), so the developer going out of business would mean you could still play any of their titles you legally purchased

 

Valve asks money to devs for them using Steam. I don't know if Direct2Drive does so too, but I would suspect that that will be the case.

 

Eiter we have

1) Devs use their own distribution, leaving the risks I mentioned before

2) Devs use other peoples distribution system, and have to pay cash. Smart marketing types smell cash and before you know it the online distributors do the same stuff the publishers are blamed of now, and nobody advances a freaking step, besides the fact we as costumers probably have a longer time between purchase and actual playing and a larger chance that we can no longer play a game we have legally bought...

 

Edit; PS. And publishers/distributors can also easily go broke...

Edited April 13, 2006 by Hassat Hunter

[Kaftan Barlast]

or what I was actually talking about:

 

 

3) A cooperative of developers band together in a joint effort to start a system for selling and distribtuing their and others games online and charging only as much as it takes to keep the service running. Thus, customers sadly does not get a nice box and a disc but instead they pay much less and most of the money they pay go to the developer of the game they bought.