After talking with G0T0 and getting back story

[shadowriath]

Why was G0T0 other then working for the Exchange..or actualy heading the Exchange marked as a darkside character? All his goals point to not really saving the republic but stablizing it quickly before it colapsis in on it's self. Though the means to get acheave that in the time table wanted might mean some unhanded things does not make one evil, but more like a "Robin Hood" type. More grey/nutrail then either light/good or dark/evil, maybe a little more light sided. The means he chooses to use are just the most effecient and quickest means to reach an end goal that is not distructive, that is not evil.

 

I would see G0T0 be like Kiera, start and remain 50/50 the whole time and be uneffected by the players standing in the force.

[aerowars617]

You answered yourself by saying that all he cares about is stabalising the republic. He is prepared to do this by any means nescessary, which is usually the dark, violent way as he says when you speak with him. Since that isnt the definition of being "good" by the jedi, he must be "bad". I suppose its like The Emperor in the SW movies. He has stabilised the republic (rebels were small in the begining), and he is evil. Its just that, GoTo is doing all these bad deeds for a greater cause, but he is now in too deep in the Star Wars "Mafia" type underground crime syndicate. Last time I checked, the Mafia and crime syndicates were bad :D

[shadowriath]

Thats why there is that grey area. Not far going either way. G0T0 is doing what he is for the greater good..which makes him good. But some things that need to be done just to fit the time table are abit edgy. That does not make one evil. THus the reforence "Robin Hood"..."Steal from the rich, give to the poor."

 

Just wondering why he didn't start out as grey, 50/50. He does nto care who is incontrol of things, as long as they are stable.

[Benfea]

Personally, I always thought G0-T0 should start out somewhere between evil and neutral, probably closer to neutral.

[Sturm]

he works for the exchange so assumed evil, most of the exchange is, never seen a half decent nice bounty hunter or boss of the exchange now have you? and who knows what he has done *before* his views on how the republic should be saved - what he previously thought could have effected his allignment

[Blaise Russel]

G0T0 is doing what he is for the greater good..which makes him good.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Not really. He's doing what he's doing because he's been told to stabilise the Republic, not because he has any heart-felt concern for people in general or whatever.

 

Furthermore, good does not have a monopoly on stability. If I want a stable Republic because it makes it easier for me to extort money and exploit people, does that make me LS?

[Sturm]

Furthermore, good does not have a monopoly on stability. If I want a stable Republic because it makes it easier for me to extort money and exploit people, does that make me LS?

 

no it doesnt, i couldnt agree more

Edited March 15, 2006 by Revan_Returns

[The Great Phantom]

Look at people like Chingis Khan: He did some horrible things to people that didn't surrender to him, but under the 'empire' of his descendents (who continued to pile up skulls as threats to neighboring cities and whatnot), an almost international trade network was formed, and religious tolerance was granted to anybody from Egypt to Beijing (more or less).

 

Does that make him good, PER SE?

[Mahf]

Why was G0T0 other then working for the Exchange..or actualy heading the Exchange marked as a darkside character?  All his goals point to not really saving the republic but stablizing it quickly before it colapsis in on it's self.  Though the means to get acheave that in the time table wanted might mean some unhanded things does not make one evil, but more like a "Robin Hood" type.  More grey/nutrail then either light/good or dark/evil, maybe a little more light sided.  The means he chooses to use are just the most effecient and quickest means to reach an end goal that is not distructive, that is not evil.

 

I would see G0T0 be like Kiera, start and remain 50/50 the whole time and be uneffected by the players standing in the force.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

You have to stop thinking about it in terms of good/evil. Light and dark are *related* to good and evil, but to understand good and evil as the Jedi portray it you must first understand what the light vs. dark philosophies are all about, rather than just reading *your* version of good and evil into the light and dark sides of the force.

 

The Light side represents a philosophy of harmony and peace. You fight only in defense and you become strong by being completely at peace. You get strength as a secondary result rather than seekings strength directly. You seek the values of good, peace, compassion, etc. first, and strength follows. This makes things difficult, because you cannot simply enforce what you think is good. The ends do not justify the means in this philosophy. You must try to bring about good while staying within the bounds of actually being good yourself.

 

The Dark side represents a philosophy of strength at whatever cost so that you can enforce your values with that strength. This is why Yoda says the dark side is quicker and easier. This is why the Emporer and Vader are not simply evil for evil's sake. They both want something at any cost: Palpatine wants stability for the Republic/Empire and Anakin wants to save Padme's life. They want the strength to bring about these good ends at any cost.

 

Of course we find out that in the end, the Dark side never really brings about what the person originally wanted strength for, but simply consumes them in the pursuit of power. This is how the Sidious and Vader from Ep 3 become the Sidious and Vader from Ep. 4.

 

So GOTO is clearly a darkside character. He seeks to enforce his version of good (which may be a pretty good version of good) at any cost. He seeks to gain the strength necessary to make his vision a reality, no matter what he has to do to gain that strength. So it really doesn't matter that what he's trying to do is good. This is what separates him from a stupid thug, but it does not make him neutral. The means he uses are what make him a dark sider.

[aerowars617]

So GOTO is clearly a darkside character. He seeks to enforce his version of good (which may be a pretty good version of good) at any cost. He seeks to gain the strength necessary to make his vision a reality, no matter what he has to do to gain that strength. So it really doesn't matter that what he's trying to do is good. This is what separates him from a stupid thug, but it does not make him neutral. The means he uses are what make him a dark sider.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

kinda like Anakin in the movies, he thinks hes helping the republic by making it stronger, but he just got corrupted, in this case by the evil emperor. In G0t0s case, it was the exchange work that makes him evil, and perhaps other stuff. Killing people for a good cause is still killing people, which is generally considered bad by most people (except you DSers out there :D )

[shadowriath]

But killing the right problem making is not bad..if that death does not create a martyr to a cause which would be a larger problem. G0T0 would rather leave the general populas alive and unawere..only target the in question indevidual that would be the most impacting.

[Sturm]

Look at people like Chingis Khan

 

dont you mean ghengis khan?

[Mahf]

But killing the right problem making is not bad..if that death does not create a martyr to a cause which would be a larger problem.  G0T0 would rather leave the general populas alive and unawere..only target the in question indevidual that would be the most impacting.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

But G0T0 tries to bring good about by first devoting himself to becoming powerful. For him the ends justify the means. Sure he would *rather* not kill people but at the end of the day he'd do it if it would bring about his ends.

 

The obvious gaming clue is that if you take light side conversation options you lose influence with him. Everytime you show mercy to someone he chides you for it. He always wants you to take advantage.

[Deadly_Nightshade]

Look at people like Chingis Khan

 

dont you mean ghengis khan?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

there are many spellings of his name...

[The Great Phantom]

In my old history book, it has both, and a few more...

 

But, that's off-topic.

 

How can Goto be evil/good if he's a robot? They really don't have alignment, only programming... and, he's 'cracked' his, which makes him, more or less, insane (like somebody's mind going bonkers under too much pressure, which is sorta what happened to him).

[Sturm]

true, but then look at hk, fully darkside

[Deadly_Nightshade]

true, but then look at hk, fully darkside

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

you can turn him full light side if you want...

[Jediphile]

In my old history book, it has both, and a few more...

 

But, that's off-topic.

 

How can Goto be evil/good if he's a robot? They really don't have alignment, only programming... and, he's 'cracked' his, which makes him, more or less, insane (like somebody's mind going bonkers under too much pressure, which is sorta what happened to him).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Cold, calculating, ruthless...

 

Would those characteristics describe an ethical person?

 

Droids are "evil" in that they will follow their programming blindly without question, no matter how much evil and suffering they might cause as a consequence, because they do not have a moral compass to guide them in the distinction between good and evil.

 

They are only "good" if they were programmed to be so... and the programming works.

 

Just compare GOTO to HAL in 2001 - the inspiration is fairly obvious to me.

[Sturm]

true, but then look at hk, fully darkside

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

you can turn him full light side if you want...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

then he'll be a wussy killer

[Deadly_Nightshade]

true, but then look at hk, fully darkside

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

you can turn him full light side if you want...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

then he'll be a wussy killer

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I like him better DS anyway...

[Jorian Drake]

In my old history book, it has both, and a few more...

 

But, that's off-topic.

 

How can Goto be evil/good if he's a robot? They really don't have alignment, only programming... and, he's 'cracked' his, which makes him, more or less, insane (like somebody's mind going bonkers under too much pressure, which is sorta what happened to him).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

He has a personality like R2 or 3cpo, they can have alignment

[Sturm]

true, but then look at hk, fully darkside

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

you can turn him full light side if you want...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

then he'll be a wussy killer

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I like him better DS anyway...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

the darkside is strongest

[Benfea]

Look at people like Chingis Khan

 

dont you mean ghengis khan?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I assume that English isn't his first language.

 

Genghis Khan didn't use the Latin alphabet and probably didn't even know that alphabet existed. Thus there is no "proper" spelling when using Latin letters, and every European country spells it in whatever way produces the closest phoenetic spelling for their language.

 

"Genghis Khan" was a title anyway. His actual name was "Temujin."

Edited March 26, 2006 by Benfea

[Sturm]

bit late there...

[CoM_Solaufein]

Off topic.