KotoR 3: Ideas and Suggestions

[Jediphile]

The canonical story for K2 could be bad. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Er, no. Canonically, the Exile is LS. Only the Exile's gender is still in question. While the games don't have to follow canon (Revan is fixed as LS male in K2, for example), it would be really odd to have the game directly contradict canon. Exile's alignment/gender needs to be set by the players as it was for Revan in K2 (and Revan's should be too in K3).

 

Goto [ the real goto, not the droid],

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

That droid is the real Goto.

 

[foxdez]

I was just looking up wookiepedia and checked out Kotor 2. I read the plot summary which appeared to have errors on it because there was some "sorry bout the mess" message on the top of the article but there's a reference of the true sith to be this Sith Empire. I know it's wookiepedia and it's editable but there are editors so it can't be that bad. Nonetheless, it could only be speculation.

 

Here's the passage with the sith empire reference:

He also delves into his companions' past, learning that many of them were Force-sensitive (and training them in the ways of the Jedi), discovering that Kreia was Revan's first teacher, exiled by the Jedi and later the Sith, and that Revan himself left the known space to fight the original Sith Empire, which, presumed to be defeated by the Republic, continued its existence beyond the Outer Rim.

 

It's not my speculation either the word Sith Empire is a link on the article.

Edited March 22, 2006 by foxdez

[Jediphile]

Actually, I think Wookieepedia is right about the Sith Empire. Not least because that's what Kreia reveals at the end of K2.

 

Kreia: "You must go where Revan did, into the Unknown Regions, where the Sith, the true Sith, wait in the dark for the great war that comes. And he came because Malachor, like Korriban, lies on the fringes of the ancient Sith Empire, where the true Sith wait for us, in the dark.Have we? You thought that the corrupted remnants of the Republic, the machines spawned by technology that Revan led into battle were the Sith? You are wrong. The Sith is a belief. And its empire, the true Sith Empire, rules elsewhere.And Revan knew the true war is not against the Republic. It waits for us, beyond the Outer Rim. And he has gone to fight it, in his own way.He left the Ebon Hawk and its machines behind, for he knew he would not need them.And, like you, he knew he must leave all loves behind as well, no matter how deeply one cares for them. Because such attachments are not the way of the Jedi, and they would only bring doom to them both in the dark places where he now walks. It would have helped had he made her understand. But she was always strong-willed, that one, and did not understand war as Revan did."

 

It all makes a lot better sense if you've read some of the Tales of the Jedi comic books, particularly The Golden Age of the Sith and The Fall of the Sith Empire, where the Sith Empire is introduced and where we meet ancient Sith Lords Ludo Kressh and Naga Sadow.

[Meshugger]

that's a nice story u have there kinda of interesting to me ^^ hm...maybe adding some little things which might help i hope? some things like able to recruit young jedis during ur journey, maybe stay in the jedi temple for more training to be come a jedi master?

like what u say there is a attachment trainning with a master during ur journey. (hope this would be good if added in the story but any way is just a suggestions so i hope u dun mind)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

My intention was that on your journey as a padawan with your master, he/she will get more apprentices that you will help on their training and joining your party. This will also give the player the option to go whatever planet he wants in any order (say 4-5 planets with atleast one possible apprentice on each. This could replace the "find the star maps" or "find the missing Jedi Masters"). Some will die if you turn DS and some will turn DS aswell and aid you. Likewise when doing LS, some will abandon/try to kill you when you make the choice.

 

And yes, if LS before the great battle, i wrote that you will get special training from the Jedi Masters. I thought that the location wasn't that important

[Meshugger]

It all makes a lot better sense if you've read some of the Tales of the Jedi comic books, particularly The Golden Age of the Sith and The Fall of the Sith Empire, where the Sith Empire is introduced and where we meet ancient Sith Lords Ludo Kressh and Naga Sadow.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

IIRC, Ludo Kressh and the rest of his fleet/army disappeared after the war with Naga Sadow. They could be the remnants that still rule somewhere in the outer regions.

[hawk]

My Ideas on K3:

 

1. Plantes involved:  Coruscant or Corellia, 1 planet from K2 possibly Telos or Nar Shardaa, A new Space Station concept, at least 1 planet we've heard of but haven't seen before, 1 planet we've seen in games from other genres, 1 planet we've never heard of, 1 planet from the films transitioned to the game and 1 planet from the first game possibly Rakatan world or Manaan.

 

2. Timeline:  2 years after K2 events.

 

3. Plot: Rebuilding of the Jedi Order. 

 

4. Plot:  Rebuilding the Jedi Order.  Jedi Exile from K2 is the Main Villain. ( Here's how.  The canonical story for K2 could be bad.  Exile defeats the sith lords and takes the throne of the Korriban sith empire although player has choice whether or not Atris was spared.  Carth helps hide Bastila from the rest of the sith.  Bastila redeems Atris if spared.  Together with Atris or alone with Carth, Bastila Finds a Force Sensitive teenager, possibly 14 yrs old[Main PC].  The Player gets to, not only make choices that effect everyone, but the player also gets to shape his character physically as he grows older.  Species choice should also be an option even if it's a choice between only 5 species[Humans included] as well as Joining Jedi/sith order or not being a Jedi at all [Other prestige classes available such as Bounty Hunter].  Somewhere in the middle of the Story, Revan should Return.  Not fully a beast like he should turn out to be, but only leveled up to a certain point.  Maybe since his "search for the true sith" wasn't as eventful as he had thought, he hadn't been able to really keep his skills and use of the force honed.  Player's character makeup from previous 2 games should determine outcome of characters' abilities in this game.  Gender and Appearance for both though, should be pre-determined by Game designers.  When Revan returns he becomes a PC.  He should also be the Head of the Jedi order at that time if and when it is Re-established. 

 

5. Characters: Main character, Bastila, Carth, Hk-47, T3-M4, Revan, Bao-dur[player finds out that Bao-dur abandoned the "General" when he fell to the darkside], Brianna [see "Bao-dur"], Zaalbar [After he finds out about Revan's return he joins the squad and renews his life-debt], Mission [Cameo], Disciple [Cameo], Atris [Choice], Two new characters possibly force sensitives picked up along the way that player can train into Jedi, and 1 or 2 characters that are based upon choice of Gender or Alignment.

 

6. Villains: Exile, Atton [trained as a Dark Jedi, Player has a choice of either saving him or killing him], Visas Marr [see "Atton"], Hanharr [Hunting Main party with some sith soldiers for the Exile], Goto [ the real goto, not the droid], Two Huge new characters possibly one sith as Exile's peer, partner or apprentice, and the other as a Elite fighter such as a Echani specialist, Bounty Hunter or Genohardan Leader. 

 

7.  Ships: Ebon Hawk, [Player should have a choice from a list of ships as to which type of ship they want, recommended: not all freighters] Some Unique ships identified with certain characters, such as the Exiles ship.

 

8. Vehicles:  There should also be more at least one battle involving huge vehicles.  One aspect of StarWars that everybody loves is the large scale planetary battles. 

 

9.Organizations: Jedi [Duh], Republic army, the Sith [should have more of a downscaled presence compared to the other two, just a little bit], Genohardan [The way K1 set up this organization and it's secrecy along with it being a "driving force of the Galaxy" is perfect for making them a Major if not the Major Obstacle in The Heroes way], The exchange [definitly downscale this one. we don't want it to get worn out for a possible K4 and K5 appearance], Czerka and a Competitor of Czerka, possibly a pre-rendering of one of the CIS corporations.

 

10. Overall: Make it Starwars!  I loved Both games, but the one thing K1 has over K2, is it felt like you were making your own starwars movie.  K2 just felt like you were playin a game.  And Definitly have a randomize enemy respawn system like K1, not level limit like K2.  More Drama and way more Space Action, possibly assaulting a Capital ship or something[space fighting and boarding].

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

First of all, welcome to the forum.

Secondly, to all your suggestions. Sorry to say this, but they don't work in any way. A vital aspect as to how Kotor III should be made is that we would be allowed to choose a face / gender / alignment etc. for both Revan and the Exile.

Your proposal isn't really what you call an RPG when you mention large vehicles to battle. In Kotor I, I found the battle of the Star Forge an excellent example of how this should be done. Both in the LS and DS ending. Just cutscene's. Now, I am all for new games, maybe space fight games and action games as well in the Kotor period. But I wouldn't like to see your idea's happening in a Kotor III.

My opinion: Stick to a good storyline with the ability to set 'everything' for your previous characters and improve influence.

Those are the vital elements of a good Kotor III. Not completely new additions and a lot of returning characters. Okay, storyline based but I wouldn't like to see a storyline in which there is a focus on bringing back lots of old characters.

[Blank]

Another idea, maybe the K3 PC should be based canonically to be female, so as to change up the series, since Revan and Exile seem to be based canonically as males. Of course, the male PC's campaign would still be good... just a thought.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Not a bad idea IMO.

But why do you think that the Exile is canonically a male?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thanks. It think Exile is canonically male because #1) If female, Disciple would be in the story. he sucked and wouldn't be a good character to continue because #2) Without male there is no Brianna. She was developed better than Disciple #3) Exile was a general. Which is more often a general in the devs' society? Male or Female? #4) The devs are males and probably were inclined to make it that way.

[DAWUSS]

I thought the last word was Exile was female? Then again, it HAS been awhile since I've kept up with KOTOR's happenings...

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

Works better that way if you want to play their spawn.

 

Unless you go all Dragon Ball Z and morph into REXILE !!!!

[Darth Hades]

Truthfully, any new KOTOR game would be nice. #1 and #2 had pros and cons, so its hard to really change much, both games were near perfect for atleast playing through twice per game.

 

The gameplay should not even be touched if a KOTOR 3 is to be made. Both Bioware and Obsidian did marvelous jobs with there respective games.

 

To benefit from this open forum, we must first look at each game in respect to pros and cons.

 

A minor flaw with #1 is that you could only advance 20 levels, which was not nearly enough to complete a nice range of powers and feats. Also the planets, not being completely linear, had that kind of looming over you to progress the story. The story was good which is an understatement at that. The twist with Revan caught me completely off guard.

 

For #2, the planets of Onderon and Dxun were nice additions but still rather small, as well it takes some time to master up to level 50. Force powers were excellent, but since there were so many options, alot of powers were useless in relation to actual usage. The story of this game was great for a progressive understanding of "the force".

 

For a possible 3rd game, actual gameplay should not be touched, force powers should be extended upon. Earlier experience levels should focus more on defensive (light) force powers and eventually work up to heavier powers of a true master. Honestly, in #1 and #2 once you gained powers like Force Storm, there was no need for combat at all.

 

Character wise, a little expansion into different races would be nice and allow story related distinctions for different races (much like light and dark side change events)

 

Story wise, anything is possible in the Star Wars universe. Ofcourse it should have some connection to the original story. Infact, playing as a Jedi, who has to eventually choose to go the the mandalorian wars and follow Revan or not (and different events for each choice) would be great. Alot of battles would be guaranteed, and this would expand even more on the original story.

 

 

Unfortunately, I see no hopes for a third game anytime soon if at all. But no matter how or if the game is made, if it stays somewhat true to the original KOTOR ideas and gameplay, it will be a hit.

[hawk]

Story wise, anything is possible in the Star Wars universe.  Ofcourse it should have some connection to the original story.  Infact, playing as a Jedi, who has to eventually choose to go the the mandalorian wars and follow Revan or not (and different events for each choice) would be great.  Alot of battles would be guaranteed, and this would expand even more on the original story.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

The period has been discussed pretty often and I disagree to it with a game which is set as a prequel. Why? It's because almost everyone is waiting for a game which will finish the allready set storyline. I would rather see "The Return of the Jedi of Kotor" then "The Phantom Menace of Kotor" if you understand what I mean?

 

No prequels yet please.

[Primeminister03]

First of all, welcome to the forum.

Secondly, to all your suggestions. Sorry to say this, but they don't work in any way. A vital aspect as to how Kotor III should be made is that we would be allowed to choose a face / gender / alignment etc. for both Revan and the Exile.

Your proposal isn't really what you call an RPG when you mention large vehicles to battle. In Kotor I, I found the battle of the Star Forge an excellent example of how this should be done. Both in the LS and DS ending. Just cutscene's. Now, I am all for new games, maybe space fight games and action games as well in the Kotor period. But I wouldn't like to see your idea's happening in a Kotor III.

My opinion: Stick to a good storyline with the ability to set 'everything' for your previous characters and improve influence.

Those are the vital elements of a good Kotor III. Not completely new additions and a lot of returning characters. Okay, storyline based but I wouldn't like to see a storyline in which there is a focus on bringing back lots of old characters.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

As far as the determined Revan and Exile, not that big of a deal to me. But to say that there can't be large battles in an RPG, Now that's limiting the potential of good future gaming. I was thinking of like the battle on Onderon, but an added "Mech" or two top fight against or with. You must have misunderstood what I was proposing. I wasn't saying I wanted the core gameplay changed or anything. I was just(Like Kotor 2 adding influence) providing ideas for New additions to the game. anyway, about the character selection, One thing that makes good RPGs different from OK RPGs is a good, story and character driven concept. Either way, the older characters need to be included if the Exile and Revan are included, because of the bond between the characters(Bastila loving Revan, Zaalbar's life-debt, Bao-dur idolizing the Exile, and the Exile's love interest). To just drop these characters off the map doesn't really resolve the story for each character. There at least need to be explanations. And maybe this is Selfish, but there are certain characters I think everybody loved playing with and would like to see a return or two(other than the two droids).

 

Anyway, WHERE IS JOLEE? Can anybody tell me what happened to him? Maybe I missed something.

Edited March 23, 2006 by Primeminister03

[hawk]

As far as the determined Revan and Exile, not that big of a deal to me.  But to say that there can't be large battles in an RPG, Now that's limiting the potential of good future gaming.  I was thinking of like the battle on Onderon, but an added "Mech" or two top fight against or with.  You must have misunderstood what I was proposing.  I wasn't saying I wanted the core gameplay changed or anything.  I was just(Like Kotor 2 adding influence) providing ideas for New additions to the game.  anyway, about the character selection, One thing that makes good RPGs different from OK RPGs is a good, story and character driven concept.  Either way, the older characters need to be included if the Exile and Revan are included, because of the bond between the characters(Bastila loving Revan, Zaalbar's life-debt, Bao-dur idolizing the Exile, and the Exile's love interest).  To just drop these characters off the map doesn't really resolve the story for each character.  There at least need to be explanations.  And maybe this is Selfish, but there are certain characters I think everybody loved playing with and would like to see a return or two(other than the two droids).

 

Anyway, WHERE IS JOLEE?  Can anybody tell me what happened to him?  Maybe I missed something.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Okay, I guess I saw a bit to much characters. Sure, Mission / Zaalbar / Jolee / Carth etc. could make cameo appearances in the next game if you set Revan as LS that is.

Note that I say cameo appearances because if you make them party members again it would mean some other party members have to replace them when you set Revan as DS.

I agree with you that typically Atton and Bao Dur from the second game should make a cameo appearance in Kotor III.

Then again, they could either be evil or good, depending on the alignment of the Exile so, yeah maybe better to give them cameo appearances.

 

And finally, the characters who should return in the next game:

Bastila / Mandalore / HK-47 / T3-M4

 

Yeah, they are important in the Kotor games.

HK-47 and T3-M4 certainly again as party members.

 

About Jolee?

If Revan is DS, he died.

If Revan is LS, he is probably alive somewhere. He could have exiled himself again or he might be helping some group.

[Musopticon?]

Unless you go all Dragon Ball Z and morph into REXILE !!!!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

:D

[Darth Hades]

The period has been discussed pretty often and I disagree to it with a game which is set as a prequel. Why? It's because almost everyone is waiting for a game which will finish the allready set storyline. I would rather see "The Return of the Jedi of Kotor" then "The Phantom Menace of Kotor" if you understand what I mean?

 

No prequels yet please.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Your point is not crossing the board completely, but its your opinion. I personally would like more information, another section of the original story that could possibly set the events for a sequel. Unless they jump the KOTOR story ahead about 2000 years to a "blank canvas", the story will be a sequel in story wise to the original. A new game would be difficult, right now the KOTOR universe is believable, as long as it remains unique in itself, it will be fine.

 

No matter which route they go (if they do go) I don't think it will throw off a fan base or destroy the series.

 

For this topic, its all opinion at this point.

Edited March 23, 2006 by Darth Hades

[Jediphile]

It all makes a lot better sense if you've read some of the Tales of the Jedi comic books, particularly The Golden Age of the Sith and The Fall of the Sith Empire, where the Sith Empire is introduced and where we meet ancient Sith Lords Ludo Kressh and Naga Sadow.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

IIRC, Ludo Kressh and the rest of his fleet/army disappeared after the war with Naga Sadow. They could be the remnants that still rule somewhere in the outer regions.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Two, things. First of all the Great Hyperspace War was set 1000 years before the KotOR era - all the characters in those stories have long since died of old age.

 

Second, Ludo Kressh didn't escape - Naga Sadow killed him and destroyed his fleet, but lost most of his own during the fight, which made his forces defenseless when the Republic fleet tracked him back the Sith Empire. That's why the story was called "Fall of the Sith Empire". Naga Sadow escaped to establish his temple on Yavin IV until he was betrayed and apparently killed by his apprentice, Freedon Nadd (what actually happened there is still a bit hazy).

[Meshugger]

It all makes a lot better sense if you've read some of the Tales of the Jedi comic books, particularly The Golden Age of the Sith and The Fall of the Sith Empire, where the Sith Empire is introduced and where we meet ancient Sith Lords Ludo Kressh and Naga Sadow.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

IIRC, Ludo Kressh and the rest of his fleet/army disappeared after the war with Naga Sadow. They could be the remnants that still rule somewhere in the outer regions.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Two, things. First of all the Great Hyperspace War was set 1000 years before the KotOR era - all the characters in those stories have long since died of old age.

 

Second, Ludo Kressh didn't escape - Naga Sadow killed him and destroyed his fleet, but lost most of his own during the fight, which made his forces defenseless when the Republic fleet tracked him back the Sith Empire. That's why the story was called "Fall of the Sith Empire". Naga Sadow escaped to establish his temple on Yavin IV until he was betrayed and apparently killed by his apprentice, Freedon Nadd (what actually happened there is still a bit hazy).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I didn't mean that you would meet Ludo Kressh in the flesh in KotOR III. Just some descendants of those who fought with him. But i wasn't aware that the whole fleet was wiped out.

 

/me goes back to the drawingboard.

Edited March 23, 2006 by Meshugger

[Jediphile]

Thanks. It think Exile is canonically male because #1) If female, Disciple would be in the story. he sucked and wouldn't be a good character to continue because #2) Without male there is no Brianna. She was developed better than Disciple #3) Exile was a general. Which is more often a general in the devs' society? Male or Female? #4) The devs are males and probably were inclined to make it that way.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

1) That's just an opinion, and even though I tend to share it with you, that doesn't mean we're right. Other people like the Disciple, and their desire to have him be canonical (i.e., female Exile) is just as valid as yours and mine for the Handmaiden to be so.

 

2) Well, I agree a bit there. She's still there, but she sort of slips out of the story once you leave the Telos academy. Disciple, on the other hand, clearly has a major connection to Carth (or Cede) in the male Exile version.

 

3) This is Star Wars, so it's just as likely to have a female general as a male. Just look at Dodonna in K1, for example.

 

4) Maybe so, but I hear someone at Lucasarts is still calling for a canonically female Exile...

 

5) I do think, however, that there are other and better reasons for a male Exile. For one thing, while the Disciple has a connection to the female Exile, I find that the Handmaiden's story is much more interesting. One point here is particularly about the relationship to Atris, who clearly had history with the male Exile, but little or none with the female Exile. That means her fall to the dark side is told far deeper in the male version of the game, and the betrayal of the Handmaiden, when you train her as a jedi is very compelling - I loved the "Betrayal!" bit that Atris and Kreia did at that point. Also, without the Handmaiden, we know very little about Arren Kae...

[hawk]

I could also add to number 3 that we see admiral Dodonna in Kotor I, yes but we also see Mon Mothma in the OT and EU as either the leader of the rebel alliance or the chief of state. Note that Leia was also a long time the chief of state. No, females are making quiet a big role in SW.

 

To Darth Hades response. It is my opinion all right, but I also think that a game set in "the past" is probably not so good.

Stay with the council. Stay LS?

Or go with Revan. Do the right thing IMO and fall to the DS except of course that you then discover that you are the Exile.....

 

Well, I wonder how a really good storyline would be build up. I guess you could keep in mind that we allready know quiet a bit about what happened prior to Kotor 1 don't you think?

[Darth Hades]

To Darth Hades response. It is my opinion all right, but I also think that a game set in "the past" is probably not so good.

Stay with the council. Stay LS?

Or go with Revan. Do the right thing IMO and fall to the DS except of course that you then discover that you are the Exile.....

 

Well, I wonder how a really good storyline would be build up. I guess you could keep in mind that we allready know quiet a bit about what happened prior to Kotor 1 don't you think?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Could work, or not even as the Exile but another Fallen Jedi, with his own story for following/not following Revan and returning or not returning to the order and subsequent events for each choice.

 

I know what I know story wise from the games and repeatedly playing, I never got into SW comics...didnt even know there were KOTOR comics.

 

 

Kind of off topic..a little, but I have been meaning to ask people to verify, Bao-Dur is an Iridonian, and looks exactly like Darth Maul, does that mean Maul is an Iridonian as well?

Edited March 23, 2006 by Darth Hades

[Krookie]

Is Darth Hades a non-annoying alt.?

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

Dosnt sound like it.

[Dark Moth]

Well, so far he doesn't seem to be like the other Hades. Already a plus.

[Krookie]

This is true, Moth.

[DAWUSS]

Should K3 be kept entirely in the Unknown Regions? This could make easier happenings for the alignments of Revan and the Exile, since we wouldn't have to worry much about other characters (ie, are they alive? dead?), though a game set entirely in the Unknown Regions could make for a "I want a return to familarity" feel possibly halfway through the game...