Complaint: grey characters not grey enough.

[Xard]

(btw. The Christian god is usually referred to as "God".)

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Umm...Didn't I write "God"?

 

Meh, I'm christian, but SW and religions of this world are different thing. So when I think SW, I don't think Force anything like Shiva, Allah, Jahve etc.

 

I base my view of Force to view of Lucas, which is ultimate truth Not EU char. like Kreia. Yes, Kreia IS quite wise. But I prefer to canonical view

 

edit:

He [Jolee] did no evil.

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Excuse me?

 

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Oh, I mean he didn't do anything evil

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lol

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What?

Edited April 9, 2006 by Xard

[Sturm]

[Zelean]

Xard,

 

I understood that the Force (!= SW) was a subject of metaphysics in SW worlds. So I thought you meant "god" since it is self-explanatory that the Force is not the God.

 

I don't want to open the subject of 'canon' (again), but just watching the movies (which I did not long ago) I would hardly be here present, discussing anything.

 

EU characher?! As in Finish, Polish, Greek, 22-other-countryman following in no particular order? :ph34r:

[Xard]

Lol, Expanded Universe :D

 

I still don't understand what you mean Revan

 

I don't want to open the subject of 'canon' (again), but just watching the movies (which I did not long ago) I would hardly be here present, discussing anything.

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I believe you have watched movies not so long ago, I just mentioned canonical view. There isn't anything like "manipulating force" mentioned in movies.

 

Umm...What was this topic about anyway? Oh, grey characters are not grey enough...Meh, there is no grey side anyway.

 

edit: Not EU char. like Kreia.

 

oh, char's <_< Stupid me

Edited April 9, 2006 by Xard

[Jediphile]

Force isn't manipulator or anything like that. Geez, it looks like that k2 mixed up the force thing even worster than midichlorians.

 

Force is energy field etc. It isn't "God" or anything like that, so it cant manipulate. Force is just.... Force.

 

Of course I can say that Great Bambu-Boojoo is manipulating our "reality", but who would believe me? I dont have any proof. And same is with "manipulating force" thing. No proof about that, so there is no need to think it to be true thing. Kreia isn't all-knowing.

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Agreed. But I think the question is whether the force has a will of its own, and what that will does if it exists?

 

That may sound silly to us, but Qui-Gon did use that as the explanation for the jedi finding Anakin in Ep. I (that they also found Jar-Jar proves that if there is a will of the force, then it has a sick and twisted side as well... )

 

I don't think we can argue the force the same way we do god in real life. There is no proof of god in the real world, and the whole thing is a pure matter of faith.

 

Star Wars is not quite the same, because while Han Solo clearly doesn't believe in the force (at least in Ep. IV), it is obvious that it does exist - Luke, Vader and Palpatine (and all other Jedi and Sith) could not possibly do the things they do, if it did not.

 

While Solo may disbelieve, that is probably due to the fact that he grew up during the years when the jedi were "extinct", when knowledge of the force was probably banned by the empire (if you're a decent evil overlord, you don't reveal the source of your power - that would just prompt the annoying do-gooders to use it as well...)

 

But even Solo must admit that the force is real after watching Luke destroy the Death Star without using a computer to guide his shot, after watching Vader deflect Han's blaster shots, after watching Luke levitate C-3PO with his will alone, etc...

 

However, that does not mean that the force has a will, it just means that it is, that it exists. It might be an "energy field" that is there for anyone to use who knows how to do so.

 

So the "will of the force" does become a bit like god in that whether you believe in it or not is an individual choice. Kreia believes, but not in the sense of it being something that she must serve. On the contrary, she hates the will of the force, and seeks to the destroy the force as a consequence.

[WILL THE ALMIGHTY]

there is no grey side. just a thin line of smoke between the light and the dark.

[The Swedish Dark Lord III]

OK, sorry if this has been posted before (I didn't read the whole thread).

 

Anyway - my believes are that true evil, is neutrality. To sit idly by while te world rushes by, is truly sinister. When your not doing something to help the world (in the case - the galaxy) your automaticly un-helping it (lol)...

 

When you are evil, you act by a patter (goodies do that too). That pattern is a part of the force, and helps it evolve (remember, its just my speculations). But as a neutral person, your unaffected by changes, and just sits there...

[WILL THE ALMIGHTY]

so grey jedi aren't good? i say a grey jedi (to me anyways) is somone who does not believe in the force being a weapon/ slave or a power to be used wisely.

[Sikon]

Anyway - my believes are that true evil, is neutrality. To sit idly by while te world rushes by, is truly sinister.

Ironically, you repeat Kreia's position. "Apathy is death."

[Sturm]

Anyway - my believes are that true evil, is neutrality. To sit idly by while te world rushes by, is truly sinister. When your not doing something to help the world (in the case - the galaxy) your automaticly un-helping it (lol)...

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how can "sit idly by while the world rushed by.." be truely sinister, thats probabally the... *blank* est thing ive ever heard, if your truely sinister as you say, you would make the world worst and much other stuff, not by just leaving it be

[The Swedish Dark Lord III]

Anyway - my believes are that true evil, is neutrality. To sit idly by while te world rushes by, is truly sinister. When your not doing something to help the world (in the case - the galaxy) your automaticly un-helping it (lol)...

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how can "sit idly by while the world rushed by.." be truely sinister, thats probabally the... *blank* est thing ive ever heard, if your truely sinister as you say, you would make the world worst and much other stuff, not by just leaving it be

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My meaning was that even if you just went out and killed every sucker you see, you would still keep evolving the world, and the force. Doing nothing (guess what) doesen't evolve the force!

 

 

Ironically, you repeat Kreia's position. "Apathy is death."

 

I didn't realize that.. but it's still my official position.

[Dark_Raven]

Thread pruned. On topic, yes?

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

You should change your Avatar to a gardener.

 

I'll go with Obi.

 

Luke "You mean it controls your actions" ?

Ben "Partly, but it also obeys your commands".

 

So your all tools of the force and you don't have any say in the matter.

[Krookie]

Neutral Points Gained should pop up in K3. I also want a Neutral ending.

[Sturm]

there cant really be a neutral ending.. neutral points are just like "___" exacly, nothing - nothing at all changes

[Xard]

Luke "You mean it controls your actions" ?

Ben "Partly, but it also obeys your commands".

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PARTLY

[Zelean]

there cant really be a neutral ending.. neutral points are just like "___" exacly, nothing - nothing at all changes

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I can't imagine why people understand that being grey (SW) or neutral means being passive or 'apathic'.

Yes, it means taking neither side A or B, yet it also does mean taking C side (very strongly).

 

Want to start a war?

A: Yes!

B: No!

C: Not -any- war!

 

What do you think environmentalism is about?!

 

PS: You can choose "neutral" ending in K2 by not following Revan.

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

PARTLY

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Still makes you a tool of the force. The force desires conflict because conflict makes you strong. Destiny is a huge part of the SW mythos, you cant escape it because the force has a "plan".

 

The force really dosnt care what happens since all life is recycled into itself. Only that the conflict continues. Kreia has it right, although her plan would kill huge numbers of people, it's the only way the people of the SW universe would be free.

 

You can consider the Grey Jedi as those who are wise enough to have seen this "plan" and want no part of it. Or in Kreias case want to free themselves completely.

[Sturm]

Neutral Points Gained should pop up in K3. I also want a Neutral ending.

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you want neutral points now? but there basically is a neutral way in kotor2, just to neither say anything nice, or mean, its just thats its not displayed, neutral ending? hmm this total thing doesnt sound the easiest thing, could you give me a scenario of a neutral ending?

 

EDIT: you can also keep neutrality if you counter one with the other LS countered with DS, and vice versa

Edited April 13, 2006 by Revan_Returns

[DarthVala]

A neutral ending is achieved by tapping into KSE and setting your DS/LS meter at 50.

[Sturm]

but the ending is effected by, whether you killed the jedi or not