Freedom of Speech.

[metadigital]

I actually don't think there should have been an apology.  Face it, just because insulting a prophet is against the law of a specific religion does not mean that said religion has a right to enforce its own laws upon those who are not of that religion.  Which is, at its core, exactly what's going on here.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Spot on.

As to the embassy burnings, I am so not surprised.  At least they haven't kidnapped a few dozen ambassadors, planning to torture them for the next year and a half, as Iran did to ours.  Still, I can empathize with the anger and indignation the people of Denmark, Norway and Sweden feel.  Americans have seen all too many of their own embassies burned and bombed over the past few decades.  I do not believe there is ever a legitimate reason for that kind of violence; however, my opinion on that has been in the minority in the past.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Britain is very familiar with fascist loonies that are happy to decree fatwa (فتوى) on an author (thought the book-burning antics of fundamentalists ended with the Nazis?).

 

When the extremists (who I would even say aren't even Muslim, they are just adopting whatever vector they can use to spread their own version of self-promoting anarchy) start to kill random innocent people, just because they happen to look remotely Nordic ...

 

My observations:

[*]There is a universe of difference between discriminating against someone because of their race vis-

[Cantousent]

I really don't find myself trying to enrol folks at a message board, but we're discussing freedom of speech over at Tarna's new message board. We all like the guy [i [b]will[/b] flame folks who speak ill of tarna :Eldar's evil grin icon:] and he wants to have something a bit more edgy. Anyhow, Fio's been a regular over there and you're more likely to get a view of his idea of message board policies than here. So, come and participate in the thread over there. Also, it has a genuine YoP forum. It's back to the old days. No more serious stuff. We're back to the real thing. Ye Olde Pages....

 

http://www.tarna.us/viewtopic.php?t=7

[Lucius]

From a protest in London...Islamofascist irony "

Edited February 4, 2006 by Lucius

[Cantousent]

Not to get off topic, but the next time I want an opinion from a flat headed, obnoxious, French Kanadian Neanderthal, I

Edited February 4, 2006 by Eldar

[julianw]

I actually don't think there should have been an apology.  Face it, just because insulting a prophet is against the law of a specific religion does not mean that said religion has a right to enforce its own laws upon those who are not of that religion.  Which is, at its core, exactly what's going on here.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

In this case, even if there is an apology, it has become the result due to political pressure and threat of violence and therefore not sincere at all. If the cartoonists caricatured the Prophet without the prior knowledge that it's a great offense to Islam, they probably should apologize as it would be human decency. When you caused another group unintentional harm, you apologize. Heck, we even apologize when stepping on other people's foot in the subway. But when he then sticks a knife in your gut, things tend to change a bit.

Edited February 4, 2006 by julianw

[Volourn]

Hey, my post got erased! It was obvious a joke just like Eldar's comment about me was a joke! It had to be! Afterall, being claled 'French Kanadian' is a horrible insult espicially when it's true 'cause as they say, the truth hurts!!!

[Lucius]

Not to get off topic, but the next time I want an opinion from a flat headed, obnoxious, French Kanadian Neanderthal, I

[Cantousent]

Ahh, you big Dane you. Can I say that on a private forum.

 

Actually, that introduces another question, message boards. Folks complain about fascist moderators all the time. I'd like to reprint some of Fionavar's views, but this is probably not an appropriate place to do so.

 

The reality is, however, that there have been some clear slurs against Muslims on the net and they did not receive much attention. Obviously, this issue relvolves around the fact that it's an actual publication. It's important for Muslims because it's an attack in the mainstream media. It's important to Europeans because of how they value a free and open press.

[Lucius]

Ahh, you big Dane you.  Can I say that on a private forum.

Sure you can, grandpa.

 

Actually, that introduces another question, message boards.  Folks complain about fascist moderators all the time.  I'd like to reprint some of Fionavar's views, but this is probably not an appropriate place to do so.

If Fido wants to write something, then by all means write it, several other mods have involved themselves in fierce debates before.

 

And I, personally, have enough in this thread, I don't need another forum with a copy of this discussion

[tarna]

Tarna is a punk!

Let's see...where do I ban Volourn first? Decisions, decisions.

[Gabrielle]

Freedom is a lie, Freedom is Slavery.

[Blank]

I think people on both sides (although, I hate saying "sides" since that shouldn't be the case but clearly is) should get over it and move on 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

1. Nobody is forcing you to read this topic.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It looks like you just talked down to DL, and no one is allowed to do that, NO ONE!

 

now, as friendly advice, i suggest you apologize, or you'll have, like, 10 other monkeys breathing down your esophagus. :ph34r:

[metadigital]

... Not to mention the entire Obsidian community wishing illwill on you.

[moreKOTORplz]

feel free to speak your mind but be ready for whoever you piss off to strike back. the people of denmark might want to get ready for a little fight, or do they go to fist to cuffs in denmark?

 

don't hide behind free speech if you can't handle the emotions they spawn.

[Jediphile]

... Not to mention the entire Obsidian community wishing illwill on you.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

What, there is someone here not already mad at me?

[metadigital]

... Not to mention the entire Obsidian community wishing illwill on you.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

What, there is someone here not already mad at me?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Launchie, of course.

[Lucius]

...or do they go to fist to cuffs in denmark?

 

What does that even mean? As I said earlier, more KOTOR and a little less world for you.

Edited February 5, 2006 by Lucius

[Jediphile]

And now the extremists have torched the danish embassy in Beirut. At this point I'm wondering if there is any point in talking to such people at all? It seems to me that they are just angry and want to be angry, and that nothing will change that.

[Lucius]

Well at least Lebanon tried to prevent it by sending in police and military force. I even saw some Imams trying to quell the mob. I think it is important to note that at this point, the mob has taken control, and it seems the moderates have trouble stopping them.

[Gorth]

feel free to speak your mind but be ready for whoever you piss off to strike back. the people of denmark might want to get ready for a little fight, or do they go to fist to cuffs in denmark?

So, you are advocating violence as an adequate response ?

 

And the last part of that statement is too garbled to understand

[ramza]

Here's an interesting article:

 

http://face-of-muhammed.blogspot.com/

 

It's just my opinion, but I have the impression that we have been entering in a new era of history: after the cold war, we have a conflict between the occidental world and the islamic world...

[Moose]

Here's a more interesting article: Clicky

[Lucius]

Lol, that's hilarious.

[Volourn]

"So, you are advocating violence as an adequate response ?"

 

How about self defense? These animals (the ones threatening violence; not Muslims in general) are now thretaening countries like Denmark with their own '9/11'.

 

Denmark, and other threatened countries have the right to defend themselves against such threats of violence.

[Dark Moth]

This entire situation has gotten way too out of hand. For one thing, you'd think that with all the horrible statements we've seen coming out of the Muslim community in the ME regarding Jews, Christians, and Americans, they'd be more open to criticism on their own way of thinking for once. " And people think conservative Christians are way to zealous.

 

Also, the response of the disgruntled Islamic community hasn't helped their cause in any way. These people object to their prophet being potrayed as (more or less) as an advocate of violence, yet they respond with violence? ... I think they're doing more harm to their image then the cartoon ever did.

 

It's clear that these people involved have no respect for freedom of speech, nor are they able to handle jabs at their own faith. There shouldn't have even been an apology.