KotoR 3: Ideas and Suggestions

[Judge Hades]

Doesn't change the rules mechanic that maximum level in the Star Wars RPG is 20.

[Surreptishus]

If the existing system is to be kept then the amount of XP available should be limited, for example not from kath hounds or just random beasties. By rationing the XP you wont run into the problem of becoming too powerful too early on in the game.

[GhostofAnakin]

Or just lower the amount of XP you gain by defeating such "minor" enemies.

[DAWUSS]

I got 1 xp for killing a gizka and 5 xp for killing a Sith Mercenary!

[hawk]

How about if you "start" the game, select a face, gender, class, etc. and then you wake up and oops, your PC is a 10 year old boy/girl.

 

Next, there is a battle on your homeworld, your parents get killed. A few Sith soldiers are coming your way, pointing their blasters at you and then woosh, they are pushed away, you see no one other then ....... appearing, killing the Sith soldiers.

 

You get to the .......... space ship, escape your homeplanet and you will be brought to a Jedi academy where you will spend another ten years of your life and then oops, the face you selected at the start will be your face from now on (or become cruel if you go DS).

 

An idea for the start maybe, considering how long Jedi training will take.

[GhostofAnakin]

How about if you "start" the game, select a face, gender, class, etc. and then you wake up and oops, your PC is a 10 year old boy/girl.

 

Next, there is a battle on your homeworld, your parents get killed. A few Sith soldiers are coming your way, pointing their blasters at you and then woosh, they are pushed away, you see no one other then ....... appearing, killing the Sith soldiers.

 

You get to the .......... space ship, escape your homeplanet and you will be brought to a Jedi academy where you will spend another ten years of your life and then oops, the face you selected at the start will be your face from now on (or become cruel if you go DS).

 

An idea for the start maybe, considering how long Jedi training will take.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

No.

 

At least for me that's a big no. I wasn't a big fan of Fable's "watch your character grow up from a child" thing, so I wouldn't want to see it in KOTOR 3 either. I also want to play as an adult PC, not some kid.

[Musopticon?]

And that start seems rather lame anyhow.

[DAWUSS]

How about if you "start" the game, select a face, gender, class, etc. and then you wake up and oops, your PC is a 10 year old boy/girl.

 

Next, there is a battle on your homeworld, your parents get killed. A few Sith soldiers are coming your way, pointing their blasters at you and then woosh, they are pushed away, you see no one other then ....... appearing, killing the Sith soldiers.

 

You get to the .......... space ship, escape your homeplanet and you will be brought to a Jedi academy where you will spend another ten years of your life and then oops, the face you selected at the start will be your face from now on (or become cruel if you go DS).

 

An idea for the start maybe, considering how long Jedi training will take.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

No.

 

At least for me that's a big no. I wasn't a big fan of Fable's "watch your character grow up from a child" thing, so I wouldn't want to see it in KOTOR 3 either. I also want to play as an adult PC, not some kid.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

.... and then you could watch the galaxy evolve during the course of your life.

 

 

But I agree, having K3 be someone's life story from birth to death is bad idea

[hawk]

I only meant it for the start, okay, that's about 15 or 20 minutes in game time that you are a kid.

 

I only thought about this because Jedi training should take a very long time.

It is said so many times.

I think it is lame if your PC takes Jedi training in a few weeks, a month or perhaps 1/2 a year at most, and then becomes a fully fledged Jedi (which is extraordinary).

[Musopticon?]

How about how they did it in Gothic, your training runs on the side of the story. Who says nothing can happen, or the story advence even though you're not actively scouring the galaxy?

[Jack the Ripper]

I don't like the combat system, I want something completely new. All of these algebraic formulas going on behind the scenes and all of the button pushing and HUD made the game feel really clunky and cluttered. In cinema, choreographed fights don't stop until a character is defeated. It's a constant, violent rhythm filled with intense, emotional moments of fear or anxiety or excitement that KotOR has completely failed to capture up until now. KotOR's combat was more like one person attacks. Wait. The other person attacks. Wait. The other attacks. Wait. One character uses a shield. Wait. The other uses a medkit. Wait. A character attacks. Wait.

 

That's terrible, that feels awkward. The whole game might as well have been done on a table top. How about choosing abilities and fighting techniques at level up, and then, with a significant improvement in AI, the fights proceed with the players intervention being optional. A dramatic camera angle system triggered by what combat animations are happening in real time could be introduced, with the player's ability to pause combat and switch to the 360 degree Matrix cam from the first two games being optional.

[Judge Hades]

I think it goes to fast for the rules system it is based on.

[Jack the Ripper]

I think it goes to fast for the rules system it is based on.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

So you want what? Final fantasy style turn based?

[Judge Hades]

Nope. I want ToEE or Fallout Turn style.

[GhostofAnakin]

I think it goes to fast for the rules system it is based on.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

So you want what? Final fantasy style turn based?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I don't see how what you suggest could be implemented without either a)turning it into a action button smasher or b)making the player sit there and watch a cinematic of the PC and enemy fighting until one happens to fall dead.

[Surreptishus]

I think it goes to fast for the rules system it is based on.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

So you want what? Final fantasy style turn based?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I don't see how what you suggest could be implemented without either a)turning it into a action button smasher or b)making the player sit there and watch a cinematic of the PC and enemy fighting until one happens to fall dead.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Its already pretty much like that.

[GhostofAnakin]

Its already pretty much like that.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Yeah but in his scenario (unless I completely misunderstand him) he's saying that the fights should be more fluid, as in fight until one dies with NO control until one guy is dead.

 

As it is, you can let your PC attack 2 times, then run away to either regroup or use a medpac.

[Surreptishus]

Yes but he did say that player intervention was optional. IMO its a rubbish idea as it smacks too much of an interavtive movie type game. For all intents and purposes the currents sytem ends up being that way anyway.

[Jack the Ripper]

I don't see how what you suggest could be implemented without either a)turning it into a action button smasher or b)making the player sit there and watch a cinematic of the PC and enemy fighting until one happens to fall dead.

 

A. That's exactly what I said I didn't want. I said that I thought there was too much clunky button button pushing already.

B. Yes. But I also said that if people would prefer to have the twelve different huds taking up about 33% of the screen as it was in the previous games, that should be tolerated and allowed. But the boring, unrealistic pace that the combat system currently has should be fixed. I want smarter AI that will use the abilities we give our characters in ways that human players would, if human players could control the game as fast as a computer can.

 

Its already pretty much like that.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Yeah but in his scenario (unless I completely misunderstand him) he's saying that the fights should be more fluid, as in fight until one dies with NO control until one guy is dead.

 

As it is, you can let your PC attack 2 times, then run away to either regroup or use a medpac.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Heh, no you can't. But you can let your PC attack 2 times, then run away while getting stabbed in the back by your enemies' sliding attack animation that looks like somebody lagging through a wall in Unreal Championship 2, and then use a medpack to regain a fraction of the health you lost while running away. It's a crap system and needs to be tweaked.

 

I feel that Bioware didn't go with the Jedi Knight saber system because they wanted their fights to look less chaotic, and more like something you'd see in the movies. In KotOR and TSL, if you leave the characters alone to fight and don't manipulate them, they'll do okay. The fights will be kind of boring, they'll never use force powers like players do, and the rhythm of the fight makes it sometimes look ridiculous, like something out of a Naked Gun movie. The fights have none of what Bruce Lee called "emotional content." If you watch the Star Wars movies, the fights were constantly moving - slash, block, move, step, turn, thrust, parry, leap, force push, slash, block, slash, duck, kick, fall, etc. All of this while moving down tight metallic corridors while dodging various obstacles or while leaping from platform to platform suspended over a four story drop. And the moment we remember from KotOR combat was what? When our character sidekicked a giant spider in a peaceful open field of grass? When that one NPC fell on his knees and then went backwards, moaning, "Uh. Uhhhh."? My heart is not exactly racing. As I mentioned above, the KotOR fights go, slash. Wait. Slash. Wait. Flurry. Wait. Force heal. Wait. Critical strike. Wait. Force lightning wait. And that would be one of the more interesting fights. Improved AI and a more fluid rhythm to the fights would really make the game more interesting.

[Surreptishus]

So you want cosmetic changes? Also the jedi knight combat was stupid - 90%button mashing 10% timing the reason it wasn't used beause it doesnt fit with an RPG

[thepixiesrock]

I feel that Bioware didn't go with the Jedi Knight saber system because they wanted their fights to look less chaotic, and more like something you'd see in the movies.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Or because they didn't want a button masher like the Jedi Knight series.

 

In KotOR and TSL, if you leave the characters alone to fight and don't manipulate them, they'll do okay.  The fights will be kind of boring, they'll never use force powers like players do, and the rhythm of the fight makes it sometimes look ridiculous, like something out of a Naked Gun movie.  The fights have none of what  Bruce Lee called "emotional content."  If you watch the Star Wars movies, the fights were constantly moving - slash, block, move, step, turn, thrust, parry, leap, force push, slash, block, slash, duck, kick, fall, etc.  All of this while moving down tight metallic corridors while dodging various obstacles or while leaping from platform to platform suspended over a four story drop.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

They already have games like that. The Jedi Knight series, and that Episode III game.

 

  And the moment we remember from KotOR combat was what?  When our character sidekicked a giant spider in a peaceful open field of grass?  When that one NPC fell on his knees and then went backwards, moaning, "Uh.  Uhhhh."?    My heart is not exactly racing.  As I mentioned above, the KotOR fights go, slash.  Wait.  Slash.  Wait.  Flurry.  Wait.  Force heal.  Wait.  Critical strike.  Wait.  Force lightning wait.  And that would be one of the more interesting fights.  Improved AI and a more fluid rhythm to the fights would really make the game more interesting.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Why don't you get a different game then, because that is what you are asking for. They losely based the system off of the Star Wars D20 system, thats why the battles are like that. It's an RPG.

[Jack the Ripper]

So you want cosmetic changes? Also the jedi knight combat was stupid - 90%button mashing 10% timing the reason it wasn't used beause it doesnt fit with an RPG

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Cosmetic changes would be a good term for part of what I want, yes. In the sense that I'd like more fluid combat animations, wherein characters are almost always making contact by attacking or counterattacking, with strategic moves like, force push or flurry, incorporated into the combat in a more convincing way. The suspension of disbelief is very important to me, and I rolled my eyes when I saw my character have a lightsaber poking through his model six or seven times as he performed force lightning because he dropped his saber behind him. A better way to do this would be to continue having the characters fight, but the casting character uses his saber to block and parry in one hand while the other reaches out to the zap the opponent, or to have the sabers lock together for a moment in one of those moments where sparks are flying, and zap the other character to break the lock. Something akin to that.

 

But I also want better AI and better camera angles, so if I want to sit back and watch the fight, waiting and hoping for a positive outcome, I can be left anxiously entertained as I spectate. I lost count how many times I had to press the attack button, lean back in my chair and sigh as I waited for yet another damn Sandpeople ambush to go down so I could move on another twenty steps and get attacked again because I forgot to put their clothes on. Fighting quickly stopped being fun or entertaining, and started being sort of a nuisance that held up the story, about two hours into KotOR.

[thepixiesrock]

I admire you. You're a real trooper to put up with all of that. How did you do it?

 

 

 

 

HOW DID YOU DO IT?

[Jack the Ripper]

I feel that Bioware didn't go with the Jedi Knight saber system because they wanted their fights to look less chaotic, and more like something you'd see in the movies.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Or because they didn't want a button masher like the Jedi Knight series.

 

You repeated me.

 

In KotOR and TSL, if you leave the characters alone to fight and don't manipulate them, they'll do okay.  The fights will be kind of boring, they'll never use force powers like players do, and the rhythm of the fight makes it sometimes look ridiculous, like something out of a Naked Gun movie.  The fights have none of what  Bruce Lee called "emotional content."  If you watch the Star Wars movies, the fights were constantly moving - slash, block, move, step, turn, thrust, parry, leap, force push, slash, block, slash, duck, kick, fall, etc.  All of this while moving down tight metallic corridors while dodging various obstacles or while leaping from platform to platform suspended over a four story drop.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

They already have games like that. The Jedi Knight series, and that Episode III game.

 

No, those games do not mimic the choreographed feeling of the Star Wars films. The closest game that does that is KotOR, and the first two games did it poorly.

 

  And the moment we remember from KotOR combat was what?  When our character sidekicked a giant spider in a peaceful open field of grass?  When that one NPC fell on his knees and then went backwards, moaning, "Uh.  Uhhhh."?    My heart is not exactly racing.  As I mentioned above, the KotOR fights go, slash.  Wait.  Slash.  Wait.  Flurry.  Wait.  Force heal.  Wait.  Critical strike.  Wait.  Force lightning wait.  And that would be one of the more interesting fights.  Improved AI and a more fluid rhythm to the fights would really make the game more interesting.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Why don't you get a different game then, because that is what you are asking for.

 

Buy a different game than what? KotOR3, a game that no one knows anything about, even regarding its existence? If you have express knowledge about what the KotOR3 combat system is definitely going to be, please share it. Otherwise, this is the KotOR 3 Idea and Suggestion thread. I presented my idea and suggestion, which was that the current combat system be made less boring.

 

They losely based the system off of the Star Wars D20 system, thats why the battles are like that.  It's an RPG.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Not all RPGs use dice, and I don't understand how people can be such hardcore fans of a deeply structured system of algebra formulas. That said, please point out where I suggested that KotOR3 change from the current D20 system, or stop trying to be snide. I asked for better combat animations, a better camera system and better AI. Why do you object to that?

[thepixiesrock]

You just want different animations?