In What aspect is Kotor I better than II?

[Darth Blivion]

I didn't have very high hopes for it as a sequel. How could it be better than KoTOR 1? But I soon felt myself being drawn into the story more, wanting to find out what was going to happen next. The problem was, of course, when it got to the climax and most of the really interesting questions were just dropped. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I asked myself that question before playing the game, and then I found myself being drawn to the story. It did so many things with the story, it had depth, and thats why I like kotor2 better than 1.

[KOTORFans]

I will analyse the main characters from each. That is what should sway me into preferring one or the other.

 

KOTOR 2 - The main character is very weak. Considering he fought on the frontlines alongside Revan, he should be a very powerful person. However, I do understand that he lost the Force, don't misinterpret me on that. It is once he regains it that he is a weak character.

 

My characters' discussion choices are very limited to that of a very naive Jedi or an extreme darksider. I have high Wisdom and Awareness, so that isn't the problem. I find irritation in the fact that my character shows so much naivety. It could be said that forgetting the Force is very difficult, but my "Exile" pulled it off superbly. He always has choices that either kowtow to another party member, which certainly lowers the characters' influence over others, or ones that I morally wouldn't choose in his position. I began to get frustrated that my character is captured so many times; something that is natural considering the bounty on his head, but surely not considering the guys' power. I mean, come on! Isn't he supposed to be saving the pretty women, rather than the other way around all the time?

 

The character in KOTOR was much more alpha-male, powerful and protective of his party and disciples. The range of decisions available were (unfortunately) not down mainly to skill at certain attributes, but they were still better than in the sequel. The revelation was masterful; certainly a little predictable with hindsight, but absolutely excellent. I saw my character in a new light after that, shifting to power battles with my lightsaber from the more Sentinel-like stance.

 

The main character shapes the game. The idea of a RPG is that you control someone else with the credibility to ensure that you can actually *be* the character. All other characters, environments etc are irrelevant. For that one reason alone, KOTOR 1 was a better game. I am still proud of Obsidian for releasing such a brilliant game, though.

[GreasyDogMeat]

I actually liked the Exile a bit more. I don't know if it was because you got in more intense situations, like trying to rescue/hunt down Mira by yourself, starting the game with an immediate understanding that some bad event had happened to cause the Exile to lose the ability to use the force or the fact that you are extremly high level by the end of the game.

 

I really enjoyed who these characters were in both games. I've always liked the idea of, if a bad person has their memory erased completly, would they still be bad when they awoke? If you go lightside in the first game, was it because of thorough 'reprogramming', or because Revan really had the ability to return to the lightside on his own and the 'loss' of his memory allowed him to start fresh?

 

The Exile is also an interesting character and I really enjoyed the themes of forgiveness. I found myself angry at the Jedi Council in the game. Not so angry that I wanted to kill them in revenge, but angry in the sense that I/Exile deserved an answer for being kicked out. An answer for their slow deliberations while worlds burned. Atris also seemed to play a big part of that, falling to the dark side herself because she couldn't let go of her jealousy and anger sorrounding the events of the Exile.

 

The thing that lifts the Exile as a PC over Revan, for me, is that the Exile's story is explained MUCH earlier, and plays a large part of the story as a whole. Revan, on the other hand, felt more like a generic PC with no past until the big revelation 3/4 of the way into the game.

 

They're both great characters with interesting pasts and who you like is really a matter of opinion. Both great in their own ways.

[DarthMethos]

I think that Kotor I feels more like Star Wars universe somehow?  Kotor II doesn't make me beleive in the story line.  When i'm playing Kotor II, I'm not as involved in the story as Kotor I.  but i don't know why that is.  Wat do u guys think?  :cool:

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think so too.

I also liked Knights of the Old Republic 2.

They both have some great qualities. :cool:

[Jorian Drake]

Both games are very good...but it could be even more better, I hope to see KOTOR 3 as a real good game, and a final to the trilogy what is '1st place' with me

[DarthMethos]

Both games are very good...but it could be even more better, I hope to see KOTOR 3 as a real good game, and a final to the trilogy what is '1st place' with me

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Lighsaber building.

Sword fighting.

Armor building.

Rule the Galaxy.

What more needs to be said? I hope to get another chance at taking over the galaxy.

[Darth Blivion]

He always has choices that either kowtow to another party member, which certainly lowers the characters' influence over others, or ones that I morally wouldn't choose in his position. I began to get frustrated that my character is captured so many times; something that is natural considering the bounty on his head, but surely not considering the guys' power. I mean, come on! Isn't he supposed to be saving the pretty women, rather than the other way around all the time?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Interesting. Being captured increases the drama, at that point it shows the Exile can be powerful but not invulnerable. The near invulnerability of the NJO Luke, makes him a shadow of his appealing OT self. The mortality of a hero, despite his prowess can only serve to draw us into his story.

 

The first PC you shouldn't forget; was captured in the Leviathan, tortured by the former master of the Sith academy on Korriban, arrested in Manaan. So your problems with being captured in kotor 2 are unfounded. I suggest re-evalutating both the PC's again.

 

EDIT: It's the reason why Vader is one of the most popular tragic heroes in pop culture. Invulnerable heroes are hardly interesting. That's why the Superman universe has red sun radiation and green kryptonite.

Edited February 6, 2006 by Darth Blivion

[astr0creep]

He always has choices that either kowtow to another party member, which certainly lowers the characters' influence over others, or ones that I morally wouldn't choose in his position. I began to get frustrated that my character is captured so many times; something that is natural considering the bounty on his head, but surely not considering the guys' power. I mean, come on! Isn't he supposed to be saving the pretty women, rather than the other way around all the time?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Interesting. Being captured increases the drama, at that point it shows the Exile can be powerful but not invulnerable. The near invulnerability of the NJO Luke, makes him a shadow of his appealing OT self. The mortality of a hero, despite his prowess can only serve to draw us into his story.

 

The first PC you shouldn't forget; was captured in the Leviathan, tortured by the former master of the Sith academy on Korriban, arrested in Manaan. So your problems with being captured in kotor 2 are unfounded. I suggest re-evalutating both the PC's again.

 

EDIT: It's the reason why Vader is one of the most popular tragic heroes in pop culture. Invulnerable heroes are hardly interesting. That's why the Superman universe has red sun radiation and green kryptonite.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Thats true Blivion.

 

It's difficult however to write a character and make him cool while being rescued all the time. But it's still fun.

[Darth Blivion]

It's difficult, but it's the way to go to if you wish to create some tension in the story.

[KOTORFans]

Interesting. Being captured increases the drama, at that point it shows the Exile can be powerful but not invulnerable. The near invulnerability of the NJO Luke, makes him a shadow of his appealing OT self. The mortality of a hero, despite his prowess can only serve to draw us into his story.

 

The first PC you shouldn't forget; was captured in the Leviathan, tortured by the former master of the Sith academy on Korriban, arrested in Manaan. So your problems with being captured in kotor 2 are unfounded. I suggest re-evalutating both the PC's again.

 

EDIT: It's the reason why Vader is one of the most popular tragic heroes in pop culture. Invulnerable heroes are hardly interesting. That's why the Superman universe has red sun radiation and green kryptonite.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Point conceded. It just doesn't feel right when in half of the game (slight exaggeration) the character in question is captured all the time. It is different in KOTOR 1, because he has some hand in his escape most of the time.

[Kalfear]

I will analyse the main characters from each. That is what should sway me into preferring one or the other.

 

KOTOR 2 - The main character is very weak. Considering he fought on the frontlines alongside Revan, he should be a very powerful person. However, I do understand that he lost the Force, don't misinterpret me on that. It is once he regains it that he is a weak character.

 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

totally disagree!

 

I liked Exile more then Revan because the Exile was MY character. You play him as you wish.

 

With Revan its someone elses character from the get go and you just going through the motions!

 

For that reason (and many more I wont go into) the Exile was a much stronger Player Character then Revan was.

[Nick_i_am]

It's not like the Exile didn't have a backstory too.

[Tha Cunnysmythe]

The thing that lifts the Exile as a PC over Revan, for me, is that the Exile's story is explained MUCH earlier, and plays a large part of the story as a whole. Revan, on the other hand, felt more like a generic PC with no past until the big revelation 3/4 of the way into the game.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

That's one of the reasons I prefer Revan. He initially presents as an average RPG NPC - Talented, powerful nondescript hero. But then you discover how integral a part he plays in the entire universe.

 

In a way, The Exile was really just Revan lite. It was a chance to play the final quarter of KOTOR (embracing/rejecting your sordid past in which you were a powerful figure) all the way through the game.

[moreKOTORplz]

the maps were the biggest issue for me with K1, if they were more developed it would be K2 all the way.

[grimace style]

For the most part KOTOR had a much better story, while KOTOR II had much better gameplay (despite bugs).

 

KOTOR's story seemed more in the style of the original Star Wars Trilogy with the good vs evil, black and white story. KOTOR II's was more in the gray area like Revnge of the Sith. Although a prefer a darker story, KOTOR II's seemed rather convaluted and difficult to follow. It kept jumping between being chased by the Sith and being chased by the Exchange. It was like two completely seperate storylines that never connected. I never knew why I was really searching for the remnants of the Jedi Council anyway. Why was I even going after Darth Nihilous? Why was I coming out of exile in the first place? Because I was told to? If I defied the Council by fighting in the Mandalorian War, why would I bother listening to people I didn't know? The characters in KOTOR were far more developed than in KOTOR II. The revelations in KOTOR were also far superior than in KOTOR II. I saw Kreia's turn coming since Peragus. It was pretty obvious. But I never suspected the revelation of Revan's identity in the first game. It was covered up so well.

 

The gameplay in KOTOR II was great. I especially liked the fact that skills played a more important role in your character. I loved the influence system and the option to make some of your companions Jedi. Personally, I think more Jedi is a good thing. They're all I ever use. Gaining stat bonuses from conversing with your companions was also a big plus. It's pretty much a wash on which game is actually better.

[Gabrielle]

It's not like the Exile didn't have a backstory too.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It's a good back story but it could have been better. The Exiles past could have been explored in more detail when you were on Dxun and even knowing Bao-Dur, but that wasn't really captialized on.

[Darth Blivion]

That's one of the reasons I prefer Revan. He initially presents as an average RPG NPC - Talented, powerful nondescript hero. But then you discover how integral a part he plays in the entire universe.

 

In a way, The Exile was really just Revan lite. It was a chance to play the final quarter of KOTOR (embracing/rejecting your sordid past in which you were a powerful figure) all the way through the game.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

In Kotor 2 you actually play to resolve the Exile's history. Revan is the Exile, extra lite.

[Knights&Darths]

It kept jumping between being chased by the Sith and being chased by the Exchange. It was like two completely seperate storylines that never connected.

well as you do your business the rest of the universe also do (a new one, isn't it), the bounty on jedi was something to be dealt with if you did mind half the galaxy coming after you wherever you go.

I never knew why I was really searching for the remnants of the Jedi Council anyway. Why was I even going after Darth Nihilous? Why was I coming out of exile in the first place? Because I was told to? If I defied the Council by fighting in the Mandalorian War, why would I bother listening to people I didn't know?

Nihilus also was to be stopped coz'you'd have died along the galaxy if you didn't, even if you found a place to hide. you had to go after those of the council to make them gather and stop being alone facing the sith threat, and to regain your connection to the force (one way or another).

The characters in KOTOR were far more developed than in KOTOR II. The revelations in KOTOR were also far superior than in KOTOR II. I saw Kreia's turn coming since Peragus. It was pretty obvious.

actually the "revelation" is not Kreia turning against you, it's about you having the potential for the death of the force, about your lost on Malachor, about you being what you are and how deep do the bonds you make run. when you return to the ship you don't speak about Kreia, you meditate on what she and/or the council told you. also, if you start thinking why would i this, why would i that, there'd be much more questions concerning k1 than k2.

 

edit: the revelation also had much weight in figuring Kreia's identity actually, for those who believe that "

Edited February 8, 2006 by jinger

[Tha Cunnysmythe]

That's one of the reasons I prefer Revan. He initially presents as an average RPG NPC - Talented, powerful nondescript hero. But then you discover how integral a part he plays in the entire universe.

 

In a way, The Exile was really just Revan lite. It was a chance to play the final quarter of KOTOR (embracing/rejecting your sordid past in which you were a powerful figure) all the way through the game.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

In Kotor 2 you actually play to resolve the Exile's history. Revan is the Exile, extra lite.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

You've just restated what I said and reversed the final statement. KOTOR 2 took the final quarter of KOTOR 1 and stretched it across the whole game, while adding to Revan's legacy. In fact, you learn more about Revan in KOTOR 2 than you do about the Exile. The Exile joined Revan, commanded armies, gave the order to blow up a planet (thereby severing himself from the force), then faced the council. That's all that is ever learned.

[Darth Blivion]

That's one of the reasons I prefer Revan. He initially presents as an average RPG NPC - Talented, powerful nondescript hero. But then you discover how integral a part he plays in the entire universe.

 

In a way, The Exile was really just Revan lite. It was a chance to play the final quarter of KOTOR (embracing/rejecting your sordid past in which you were a powerful figure) all the way through the game.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

In Kotor 2 you actually play to resolve the Exile's history. Revan is the Exile, extra lite.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

You've just restated what I said and reversed the final statement. KOTOR 2 took the final quarter of KOTOR 1 and stretched it across the whole game, while adding to Revan's legacy. In fact, you learn more about Revan in KOTOR 2 than you do about the Exile. The Exile joined Revan, commanded armies, gave the order to blow up a planet (thereby severing himself from the force), then faced the council. That's all that is ever learned.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Yeah! The rp section of the first game, unfortunately very little of Revan's past was resolved. WTF is up with that?!

 

That all? He helps resurrect the Jedi; discovered why the council exiled you; discovered the details behind the civil war; discovered how and why you turned from the force and power; how Malak was a fool; discovered what really happened at Malachor; discovered that the "Sith" of kotor were merely a corrupted Republic defectors.

 

Basically a whole lot of things that kotor didn't cover. The Exile, out of the gate, has more depth than Revan. Of course Obsidian couldn't let Revan's story wallow in a shallow pool, so they brought his story a little bit closer to the depth of the Exile's tale.

 

EDIT: Discover why the Sith are after you; discover that the new Sith had learned from you; Discover that you are a wound in the force; stabilize the galaxy by resolving conflicts in key worlds - not merely finding star maps and meeting your parties relatives, mind you. As far as Revan's story goes, you have to gain influence with Kreia/HK 47 and that isn't necessary for the progression of the story - just serves as interesting information.

Edited February 9, 2006 by Darth Blivion

[Tha Cunnysmythe]

I was talking about the Exile's past actions, not details of everything he learns and does during the game. You haven't mentioned anything that the Exile actually did before the game. More work was done to develop Revan's past than the Exile's in KOTOR 2.

[Knights&Darths]

I was talking about the Exile's past actions, not details of everything he learns and does during the game.  You haven't mentioned anything that the Exile actually did before the game. More work was done to develop Revan's past than the Exile's in KOTOR 2.

well all the talking about Revan is just from Kreia, mostly. in k1 you get to know about the same much about Revan as you get to know about the Exile in k2 if you consider Ludo Kressh's tomb, the holorecord of the trial, the holo on Dantooine, Atris and the veterans you meet along the story.

[PedanticTwit]

Going out on a limb here, I found that the KotOR was actually slightly harder on the grey Jedi than the first, which is one of the reasons I like the first better. While the sequel allows for attributes to lessen the cost of using opposed force powers, it seems that the designers assumed that players would, of course, choose at the outset* whether to play a naive, ideology blinded palatine Light-sider or a psychopathic, sociopathic, foaming at the mouth mass murdering, power mad Dark-sider, making every choice along the way follow that initial decision. This bothered me on multiple levels.

 

It and the first game make the tacit assumption that to be Light-side means to be stupid and easily duped, while to be Dark-side means to be inconstant and power mad. They leave only one avenue open for evil: that of the tyrant. What if I prefer a more subtle brand of evil? As for Light-siders, why must I never make decisions that have a firm basis in game theory? The Kashyyk computer scene bugged many of my friends for that reason. They try to emulate Winston Churchill and get slapped with dark side points for their troubles? Apparently being good means being an idiot of a leader. If this is how the designers view alignment, I'd hate to be in an actual pen & paper RPG with them. They're the type that play "Lawful Stupid" paladins and "Psych(a)otic Evil" rogues. <_<

 

The real kicker of a difference between the two games' takes on alignment was the requirement for PrCs. WTF is with shafting the greys from getting a PrC?

 

Oh, well. C'est la vie. Other than that gripe, KotOR 1 had

• a more coherent final section
  
• more engaging repartee among characters
  
• more likeable characters (partially due to the fact that the sequel's characters were pretty much all either tightlipped or irritating)
  
• none of that stupid "automatic queuing up of a standard attack despite the fact that I ordered my character to heal" bull crap
  
• a final boss that didn't automatically save against everything that you could throw at him
  

KotOR 2 could have been a better game than the first. It was actually very close to attaining that goal. If they had provided advancement options for greys, finished the end section, not screwed up the last boss, not screwed with the combat UI, and made the characters a wee bit less emotionally incontinent, then the game would have topped the first.

 

 

 

*I played through both games the first time using my own moral and ethical compasses as guides. I still had more fun doing that than I did when I played through and got the four star treatment from the game by being an inflexible jerk.

Edited February 9, 2006 by PedanticTwit

[Knights&Darths]

i don't recall the dialog light/dark alignment to be any different in k1, the only difference is in one of Malak's last lines, kinda "you're no jedi nor sith" or something like that, actually i thought k2 was totally grey, even kreia at the end says you're no real jedi/sith, the grey crystal was the most powerful, and when you do something smart yet not exactly ls/ds you actually see a difference (party member reactions).

[Darth Blivion]

I was talking about the Exile's past actions, not details of everything he learns and does during the game.  You haven't mentioned anything that the Exile actually did before the game. More work was done to develop Revan's past than the Exile's in KOTOR 2.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

That's exactly what I explained. We resolve his past, and we actually play a role in how his past turns out. If you meant details of the Mandalorian wars, we don't have many details as you well know.

 

EDIT: We don't have any details on what any of the Jedi actually did in the Mandalorian wars. So as far as the kotor series stands, the Exile's past has been highlited to a large extent.

Edited February 10, 2006 by Darth Blivion