How old is "True Sith" plot?

[Musopticon?]

And TotJ has quite a bit of authority over what pssses as official lore in Old Republic universe. Afterall, it was the main source that inspired Bio when making K1.

Edited December 27, 2005 by Musopticon?

[Guest MacLeodCorp]

And TotJ has quite a bit of authority over what pssses as official lore in Old Republic universe. Afterall, it was the main source that inspired Bio when making K1.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I have not read all of the 'Tales of the Jedi' books, but I personally don't take it as cannion. I just don't except the 'True Sith' idea... In my mind, there is no lexicon for 'True Sith'. There is only 'Sith'... Sith are fallen Jedi, potential Jedi, and Force-Sensitives... Nothing more... <---Sorry for the repeate statement, but that is just how I feel.

 

Vader, Maul, Revan, Malak, and Emporer are Sith period. Regardless about what 'TotJ' says, they are what they are: SITH...

 

Edit::

Someone stated that Lucas will dissmiss the 'True Sith' idea, for it goes against everything that he has allready established. Therefore, the next KotOR will have no mention about them, or a twist to get rid of the whole idea...

Edited December 27, 2005 by MacLeodCorp

[Plano Skywalker]

one theory about the term is this:

 

Revan knew that the Sith Empire (i.e. the decendants of Ludo Kresh and his followers) was preparing for war in the Unknown Regions. He also new of the Star Forge and how it had the ability to mass-produce ships.

 

He decided to "fall" to the dark side in order to wake up the Republic against the true (unseen) threat. He used the Star Forge against the Republic in order to galvinize the Republic. Revan's New Sith amounted to a "scorched earth" policy of attacking the Republic in order to save it. That is what Malak could not understand...why Revan did not move more aggressively against the Republic....Revan was amassing a fleet that would ultimately assist the Republic.

 

But apparently this scorched earth policy was also part of the True Sith's plan and a mindless Revan ended up destroying the only thing that could save the Republic...the Star Forge...that

along with Kreia's Jedi Purge

have basically allowed the enemy to waltz on in and take over.

 

"True Sith" is just the Sith Empire (that, while largely defeated in the comics, was not totally wiped out). New Sith Order was just a failed scorched earth scheme that Revan had cooked up to save the Republic.

[Guest MacLeodCorp]

one theory about the term is this:

 

Revan knew that the Sith Empire (i.e. the decendants of Ludo Kresh and his followers) was preparing for war in the Unknown Regions.  He also new of the Star Forge and how it had the ability to mass-produce ships.

 

He decided to "fall" to the dark side in order to wake up the Republic against the true (unseen) threat.  He used the Star Forge against the Republic in order to galvinize the Republic.  Revan's New Sith amounted to a "scorched earth" policy of attacking the Republic in order to save it.  That is what Malak could not understand...why Revan did not move more aggressively against the Republic....Revan was amassing a fleet that would ultimately assist the Republic.

 

But apparently this scorched earth policy was also part of the True Sith's plan and a mindless Revan ended up destroying the only thing that could save the Republic...the Star Forge...that

along with Kreia's Jedi Purge

have basically allowed the enemy to waltz on in and take over.

 

"True Sith" is just the Sith Empire (that, while largely defeated in the comics, was not totally wiped out).  New Sith Order was just a failed scorched earth scheme that Revan had cooked up to save the Republic.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Therefore, Revan wasn't really a Sith, but was pretending to be a Sith. <----That actually makes sense. Therefore, Revan may have fallen slightly to the Darkside, but he/she only did it to make the Republic and Council aware that a larger force was about to hit known space... (Theory...)

 

Now, what people were confussed about is the words 'True Sith', which in this case means that Revan wasn't really a Sith. Therefore, 'True Sith' should really be the 'Real Sith', and not someone possing as a "Sith'..

 

At the end, 'True Sith' don't actually exist, but it was a reference to the fallen Jedi who actually became 'Sith'. Revan wasn't a 'Real Sith', but just a lightside Jedi trying to make the Republic and council stronger.

 

In conclusion: There is no such thing as a 'True Sith' species, but there are people who are 'Real Sith'.. Those 'Real Sith' are Jedi or Force Sensitives that have truely fallen to the darkside.... Unlike Revan.... Terefore, Revan never truely turned to the darkside...

 

(Sorry if there is some repetition..)

[freedom_fries]

Did Kreia say "true sith" or "true sith empire"? I haven't played the game for a while and there could be a really big difference there.

 

and uh... couldn't revan just have used the star forge ships to attack the sith empire? Why couldn't thet have just left Revan as a tradional sith like he was meant to be in k1? Was it really that necessary to glorify him?

[Guest MacLeodCorp]

Couldn't revan just have used the star forge ships to attack the sith empire? Why couldn't thet have just left Revan as a tradional sith like he was meant to be in k1? Was it really that necessary to glorify him?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Absolute power currupts absolutly...He could have been trying to prevent the curruption of the Council... Temptation!

[moreKOTORplz]

they do have this theme with koriban, everyone search for the true source of DS power. like kreia said (which lord had the uber lightsaber holocron) made the current lightsaber fighters look like babies with toys or some ****.

[Xard]

And TotJ has quite a bit of authority over what pssses as official lore in Old Republic universe. Afterall, it was the main source that inspired Bio when making K1.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I have not read all of the 'Tales of the Jedi' books, but I personally don't take it as cannion.

 

Lol!

 

Nothing except movies, Luceno's Labyrinth of Evil and Dark Lord are cannon. Everything else goes "EU cannon". (or how it is typed anyway)

 

edit: Kreia talked about True Sith and True Sith Empire.

Edited December 27, 2005 by Xard

[moreKOTORplz]

everything done pretty much has to fit in the SW story

[Surreptishus]

Lol!

 

  Nothing except movies, Luceno's Labyrinth of Evil and Dark Lord are cannon. Everything else  goes "EU cannon". (or how it is typed anyway)

 

edit: Kreia talked about True Sith and True Sith Empire.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

If you are going to be picky, its actually just the films that are CANON. Everything else is expanded universe.

[moreKOTORplz]

oh lord no canon debates

 

 

 

 

 

besides luke skywalker is KING

[Musopticon?]

I didn't say it was main line canon, just that in TotJ-line there was a race of Sith and as K1 supposedly happens a few decades after the last TotJ-story(talks about Exar Kun and familiar planets in K1 for example), so I think the KotORs do follow TotJ as their source/canon/base/whatever; therefore there Sith-race explanation probably applies to KotORs too.

Edited December 27, 2005 by Musopticon?

[Plano Skywalker]

Dark Horse also had a comic series called "The Golden Age of the Sith".

That comic talks about the Sith as an actual race...they are red-skinned, insectiod,

somewhat demonic-looking.

 

It is believed that, by the KOTOR time, there are probably not many full-blooded Sith running around but, perhaps many with Sith blood and who still look alot like the ancient sith. The "half-breeds" would actually be stronger in the Force than pure Sith since they are also the offspring of Fallen Jedi.

 

Basically, the real Sith is anyone who learned of the Force through the Sith tradition...in other words, Palpatine would be a "true Sith" because he was not a fallen Jedi...his Force instruction came from the unbroken Sith tradition.

 

Sith is a dark side cult as is the Krath....I personally would not mind hearing from the Krath a bit more in future games...as a joinable faction too.

[darknesslord]

all the talk about canon is right, only the movies are canon, because it is as you see it. as for the eu, njo for exemple, I coule write a story that start beginning after return of the jedi and ending 100 years after it, completly erasing everything that has been done, and it would be as much canon as before. as for the sith, I don't know. the sith under revan and malak were just dark jedi or wealking, so anything more sith would do the job

[DeathScepter]

Palpitine and Maul are True Sith by Training and Sith Training is their only source of training.

 

Vader, Dooku, Revan and Malak are Sith Converts. Technically they are Dark Jedi with Sith Training.

 

 

 

Dark Jedi study both sides of the Force and they embrace the Dark Side.

 

Sith(Dark Jedi with Sith Training) are typical FLY thru the ranks of the Siths.

 

Sith(those without Jedi Training) are very dedicated to the Dark Side and they pride themselves in their hard training. So They are always in constant competition with Dark Jedi and other Sith.

 

 

Freedon Nadd and Exar Kun had more Sith Knowledge than Revan or Malak had.

 

IT doesnt mean that Revan or Malak are no less deadly than those two.

[Guest MacLeodCorp]

Palpitine and Maul are True Sith by Training and Sith Training is their only source of training.

 

Vader, Dooku, Revan and Malak are Sith Converts. Technically they are Dark Jedi with Sith Training.

 

 

 

Dark Jedi study both sides of the Force and they embrace the Dark Side.

 

Sith(Dark Jedi with Sith Training)  are typical FLY thru the ranks of the Siths.

 

Sith(those without Jedi Training)  are very dedicated to the Dark Side and they pride themselves in their hard training. So They are always in constant competition with Dark Jedi and other Sith.

 

 

Freedon Nadd and Exar Kun had more Sith Knowledge than Revan or Malak had.

 

IT doesnt mean that Revan or Malak are no less deadly than those two.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Nice try... However, Vader is call, "Lord of the Sith"... He is not a Dark Jedi... Hense, 'Lord Vader'.

[moreKOTORplz]

all the talk about canon is right, only the movies are canon, because it is as you see it. as for the eu, njo for exemple, I coule write a story that start beginning after return of the jedi and ending 100 years after it, completly erasing everything that has been done, and it would be as much canon as before. as for the sith, I don't know. the sith under revan and malak were just dark jedi or wealking, so anything more sith would do the job

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

EU fans are too rapid, although the vong are pretty outrageous for star wars

[foxdez]

Therefore, the 'Original Sith', which gave birth to the first 'Sith Empite' were fallen or potential Jedi. What makes them special is that they are founders. Nothing more...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

If I read that right, you're wrong. The Sith were a race, that has been gone for ages. The first Sith Empire was not made up of fallen or potential Jedi, it was made up by the Sith species.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

What!?!?! First it was called 'True Sith', and now a 'Sith Species'.... What type of drugs are people smoking!?!?! Are people trying to take elements from 'The New Jedi Order' series, and intermix them with 'KotOR'???

 

I think that 'The New Jedi Order' series created a massive mess.

 

There is no 'Sith Species'... There is no such thing as a 'True Sith'...

 

The Sith are fallen Jedi, potential Jedi, or Force Sensitives. There are no alien 'species' called 'Sith'... Regardless about how they fall into the darkside, their species background has nothing to do with it...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

So why does it mention "true sith species" on the load screens. I believe canon or not that the species itself is part of kotor at some point because it does mention them in the game. But to an extent they are only noteworthy and not really any impact because they were supposely extinct.

 

True Sith can be many different things and Kriea as cryptic as she is does not elaborate to well. There are several ways you can look at true sith. A couple people already touched on this before on other threads but true sith could be a dark force. Not necessarily a sith armada but true sith darkness maybe an ancient sith's empire teachings or something down those lines.

 

Maybe there is a grand sith aramda remnants of ludo kresh's army left unchecked and flourishing.

 

The actual species or half-breeds but honestly most far fetched since there are to be extinct according to both games.

 

Personally, I like the idea of true sith as a dark force then anything else because light and dark have been smeered so much that maybe a true darkness will be the epic story that the kotor series deserve.

[Sikon]

all the talk about canon is right, only the movies are canon, because it is as you see it. as for the eu, njo for exemple, I coule write a story that start beginning after return of the jedi and ending 100 years after it, completly erasing everything that has been done, and it would be as much canon as before.

Don't confuse the Expanded Universe - media sanctioned and licensed by Lucasfilm - with fan fiction. You can write this story, but as long as it's not licensed by Lucasfilm, it's not EU. Publishing an EU work is by no means a simple process, it involves checking for continuity errors with the Holocron database, not to mention that key decisions involving major characters need to be discussed on a high level, sometimes involving Lucas himself if it includes the characters he created (for example, Lucas disallowed killing Luke in NJO, so Chewbacca died instead; also he ordered to kill Anakin Solo instead of Jacen).

Of course, the KOTOR era is not as strictly monitored as the post-(pre-, inter-)movie era, as it doesn't involve any movie characters.

[Xard]

Lol!

 

  Nothing except movies, Luceno's Labyrinth of Evil and Dark Lord are cannon. Everything else  goes "EU cannon". (or how it is typed anyway)

 

edit: Kreia talked about True Sith and True Sith Empire.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

If you are going to be picky, its actually just the films that are CANON. Everything else is expanded universe.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

No, you are wrong. Those books are cannon too. If i could just find link for a proof...

 

edit:

I didn't say it was main line canon, just that in TotJ-line there was a race of Sith and as K1 supposedly happens a few decades after the last TotJ-story(talks about Exar Kun and familiar planets in K1 for example), so I think the KotORs do follow TotJ as their source/canon/base/whatever; therefore there Sith-race explanation probably applies to KotORs too.

 

exactly. All that is said in EU, is true in sw universe. (unless you aren cannon-fanatic who hates EU-****) What is true in totj, is true in kotor.

Edited December 28, 2005 by Xard

[213374U]

I have not read all of the 'Tales of the Jedi' books, but I personally don't take it as cannion. I just don't except the 'True Sith' idea... In my mind, there is no lexicon for 'True Sith'. There is only 'Sith'... Sith are fallen Jedi, potential Jedi, and Force-Sensitives... Nothing more... <---Sorry for the repeate statement, but that is just how I feel.

 

Vader, Maul, Revan, Malak, and Emporer are Sith period. Regardless about what 'TotJ' says, they are what they are: SITH...

Huh?

 

How do you expect to make sense out of something if you purposefully disregard the material it's based on?

 

Regardless of what you consider canon or not, the Sith species is a recurrent theme in the TotJ era (newsflash: KotOR is set in the TotJ era), and considering that everything in that era is not canon, the Sith race are as good a part of the EU as anything else. So, like it or not, the Sith race exist in the KotOR universe.

 

And, about Revan and the others, the term "Sith" is an EU invention that made it to the movies. You will find that in the OT, nobody mentions anything about "Sith", and Darth Vader is a dark Jedi.

 

Funny how people make up stuff in their mind, and then proceed to assume it's a fundamental truth.

[Sikon]

Whether or not you accept the EU as canon or not (looks like most people to, if they know about the EU's existence) is a matter of personal preference, but technically, the KOTOR games are on the same level of canon as most of the EU: C-canon. Both.

[213374U]

Um, ok. By not canon I meant it in the purist sense, as in not being in the movies.

[Guest MacLeodCorp]

I really want to get into this topic, but there is a clear disagreement over what is considered cannon and not. From my point of view, what ever is in the movies is canon. Yes, some elements of EU have made it into the movies, and some characters have even made it into lore. Inorder for me to have a deep intelectual conversation about 'True Sith', I would need to reed some EU books. I try to stay away from books that rewrite history. I will probally not read 'TNJO'... When a game like 'KotOR' is made, there should be consideration for those who do not read EU books. Other words, people who have allready excepted the 'Sith' as fallen Jedi, potential Jedi, or Force-Sensitives.

 

Everyone in this thread has made a pretty good argument both ways, and at the end it all comes down to preference and what Lucas will consder truth. Book, comics, and game writters are out to entertain, but at the en George Lucas has the final say. Unless Georgre Lucas can come in here, I don't see any solution to the question.... Is 'True Sith' considered canon?

[213374U]

Is 'True Sith' considered canon?

Only as far as you consider KotOR canon.