KotoR 3: Ideas and Suggestions

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

... and then a new player to the KOTOR franchise would wonder who the Exile and Revan are as they both end up dead, and then would probably become even more lost as to why they even were in the game when the main character is introduced. The whole game he'll wonder why one had to do with the other.

 

The Revan fanatics (some of you like to refer to them as fanboys) will become pissed the second he dies because they wanted him to be the "big gun" of the galaxy and have children with Bastila.

 

The other long-time KOTOR fans would become a little disappointed at the Revan-Exile conclusion, especially if it took two games to set the whole thing up and it doesn't end up being at the core of the game (especially if it ends up underdeveloped [see new player])

 

Now some would see a quick Revan-Exile wrap-up as a means to move on start with something fresh (unless they hear "Revan" and "Exile" so many times [in which case they may as well have been left alive]) as a new character in a new day, leaving behind all previously created characters (T3, Visas, Carth...) (where long-time fan would think this game really didn't deserve to be a 'KOTOR')

 

 

Granted, you're not going to please everybody, but who would you rather please, the long time fan or the newcoming gamer who may or may not even care that much about the previous KOTOR installments. Just a thought

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Good thats the idea of the opening scene. It makes the player empathise with the character. Of course there will be some reference, but thats not the same as having to explain the whole history of the previous games. By the end of the game the character will know who was in the opening scene and why but little beyond that.

 

I couldnt care less about them. I'm thinking of the series and the future of the franchise. Way more people are into Sephiroth , but they got over it.

 

Again if the game is good enough then thats not going to make any difference. They will get over and simply appreciate KOTOR III as its own creation. People were disapointed in the conclusion of KOTOR II and that could have been a much better game had it ignored the whole thing and just focused on it's own story.

 

You can carry across the droids without too much trouble. I'd make them regulars like R2 and 3p0. No one is going to bat an eyelid if a droid is memory wiped or dosnt remember that he was actually built by Anakin Skywalker :D and cant remember what he's been doing for the last 30 years.

 

If the game is good enough it will attract new fans. If your long term fans are holding back the growth of your franchise, then they are more of a liablility than a fan. For example a Revan fan would be worthless unless you planned to include him in every game, so therefore you can simply discount that. Only those who are fans of the franchise itself can really be counted on.

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

The KotOR series can break away and start fresh after they finished the Revan/Exile story in KotOR III.

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Too much baggage.

 

I'd be more inclined to agree if we were not at the start of a new console generation. But we are , so I wont.

[Meshugger]

The KotOR series can break away and start fresh after they finished the Revan/Exile story in KotOR III.

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Too much baggage.

 

I'd be more inclined to agree if we were not at the start of a new console generation. But we are , so I wont.

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If can't handle the baggage, then you shouldn't have packed it in the first place. I don't see a reason to compare FF to KotOR either, especially FF VII. Sephiroth died and the world was a safer place, even 500 years in the future. There was no buildup for a greater enemy, and no inconclusive ending.

[DAWUSS]

Never thought I would hear the words Troika and competent in the same sentence..

 

With regards to offspring. The only game thats really gotten this right is Fire Emblem (think it was 4). The game was split into two parts , the first part with the original character, during which you could pair them up. Depending on those pairings you would then get a new cast of characters for part II of the game.

 

You could do it over the course of two seperate games but there would have to be someway to transfer infomation. And it would have to be part of the intent from the start. It does also leave the problem of what if you dont pair up ? Much like the death of Carth and Bastila ,as well as the obvious LS/DS male/female , meant having to account for all these possibilites which didnt actually extend the story of the second game in significant ways. So would having a myriad of possible offspring and parents included in the next game.

 

If it is to thrive in the way FF does (96 million ish) then KOTOR must break away from just identifying with specific characters and become regocnized in it's own right. Otherwise it will be trapped by it's own limitations and rabid fan expectations in the same way that Fallout has been.

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The KotOR series can break away and start fresh after they finished the Revan/Exile story in KotOR III.

 

KotOR IV could be set 400 years after the events of the previous KotOR's, making a new start or even a new trilogy. Or even 6000 years later with the New Republic and with the Skywalker trilogy buried in history.

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We could start fresh in IV, since hopefully the Revan-Exile story can be properly resolved by then.

 

I'd like to see something along that last statement, like 2000 years after the Battle of Endor, where the Luke Skywalkers Jaina Solos and Emperor Palpatines are all long said and done and maybe a brief trace from anything from that time period exists (maybe a cameo 3PO unit, but that's it)

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

If can't handle the baggage, then you shouldn't have packed it in the first place. I don't see a reason to compare FF to KotOR either, especially FF VII. Sephiroth died and the world was a safer place, even 500 years in the future. There was no buildup for a greater enemy, and no inconclusive ending.

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If it was your baggage to start with then perhaps.

 

FF is an example of a succesful franchise that isnt tied to a particular character, or a particular world. Probably with it's on part XII while others die out after 2 or 3. GTA could be another example.

 

I was making reference to the rabidity of the fans not the story.

[Janmanden]

Consumed by the dark side they said... The DS: *crunch-crunch* BURP!!

 

If you look at FFXII (the new one) it has nothing to do with the events in X or X-2 which means that it's not going to alienate anyone because they havnt played the previous games.

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Let FF be fluffy cuteness and anime crap and leave Knights of the Old Republic out of the picture, please.

 

Well... in (real) games like Baldurs Gate all the characters had a background resum

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

Let FF be fluffy cuteness and anime crap and leave Knights of the Old Republic out of the picture, please.

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oh well saves responding to the rest of your post.

[Janmanden]

Let FF be fluffy cuteness and anime crap and leave Knights of the Old Republic out of the picture, please.

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oh well saves responding to the rest of your post.

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I should have said Out of *that* picture with FF and blargh, but... well... no loss, I feel dirty already.

[Commissar]

...gah.

 

How is the Revan/Exile storyline not already wrapped up? They're both off fighting the bigger threat outside of known space. Revan left behind people who can take care of the Republic, make it strong, while he's gone, and the Exile left behind the nascent beginning of a new Jedi Council.

 

Don't you guys want to start playing characters that are wholly yours? Hmm? Hmm?

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

...gah.

 

How is the Revan/Exile storyline not already wrapped up?  They're both off fighting the bigger threat outside of known space.  Revan left behind people who can take care of the Republic, make it strong, while he's gone, and the Exile left behind the nascent beginning of a new Jedi Council.

 

Don't you guys want to start playing characters that are wholly yours?  Hmm?  Hmm?

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Yes.

 

Interesting point. I think the more people who start playing these sorts of things that dont come from a PnP background (or are just lazy and unimaginative) wont know what to do when presented with thier own character.

 

The major flaw is of course that if you want to make a pregen playable then you have to wipe it's memory and that just gets old.

[Meshugger]

...gah.

 

How is the Revan/Exile storyline not already wrapped up?  They're both off fighting the bigger threat outside of known space.  Revan left behind people who can take care of the Republic, make it strong, while he's gone, and the Exile left behind the nascent beginning of a new Jedi Council.

 

Don't you guys want to start playing characters that are wholly yours?  Hmm?  Hmm?

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Of course not. But i don't want throw the story down in the dumpster either.

[Meshugger]

If can't handle the baggage, then you shouldn't have packed it in the first place. I don't see a reason to compare FF to KotOR either, especially FF VII. Sephiroth died and the world was a safer place, even 500 years in the future. There was no buildup for a greater enemy, and no inconclusive ending.

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If it was your baggage to start with then perhaps.

 

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Ah, i see. The devs can claim no responsibility of the stories they made, and go lazy with doing a new story. Fair enough for you, not for me.

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

Of course not. But i don't want throw the story down in the dumpster either.

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What story ?

[Meshugger]

Of course not. But i don't want throw the story down in the dumpster either.

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What story ?

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No need to pick straws. You don't see a story worth continuing, but i do.

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

Ah, i see. The devs can claim no responsibility of the stories they made, and go lazy with doing a new story. Fair enough for you, not for me.

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Not what I meant at all. KOTOR and the characters of KOTOR are Biowares creations not Obsidians.

 

Now every time you continue a game along the same plot line you simply exasperate the problems that KOTOR II demonstrated.

 

Both the Exile and Revan are off doing stuff. Now thats cleared up Obsidian can focus on a KOTOR that is theres and not one that is a mish mash of two ideas.

Same applies should someone completely new take over (although I cant see who that would be).

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

No need to pick straws. You don't see a story worth continuing, but i do.

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Whoa defensive...

 

No really what story ?

Its meant as a question not a sarcastic statement I know that may not come across on the net.

Edited December 9, 2005 by ShadowPaladin V1.0

[Commissar]

Of course not. But i don't want throw the story down in the dumpster either.

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Thing is, where can the story go? Say there's another adventure for the Exile and that pissant Revan, in which they either fight whatever's out in unknown space or come back to the known galaxy to defeat/take part in some great evil. What then? Do they just go off into retirement? That's essentially the same thing as heading out into unknown space to never be heard from again. If they don't go into retirement, what do they do? More adventures? Storyline's not over then, is it? What's the satisfactory ending? Both games had an ending, and you're saying you want more. Why wouldn't you want more at the end of the next one?

[DAWUSS]

No need to pick straws. You don't see a story worth continuing, but i do.

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Whoa defensive...

 

No really what story ?

Its meant as a question not a sarcastic statement I know that may not come across on the net.

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I think he was talking about the Revan-Exile story.

 

 

And BTW, if we make K3 will an all-new cast, we'll just be doing EXACTLY what we did in K2 (when we sent off the main characters from K1), and you can only do that for so long until it gets old

[Commissar]

And BTW, if we make K3 will an all-new cast, we'll just be doing EXACTLY what we did in K2 (when we sent off the main characters from K1), and you can only do that for so long until it gets old

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But the "cast" of an RPG, with regards to the main character at any rate, should be left up to the player. It's "action-RPG" console crap to give you a pre-generated whatever.

[Janmanden]

I wonder why the initial character creation in itself is so one-dimensional, empty and inane: Just picking initial strengths and skills without any background or inclination...from scratch, level 1, neutrality, tabula rasa, no name (as least never spoken)...defining your character through dialogue and action from *this* point and onwards...getting to know yourself from what anyone tells you about yourself. Like Bao-Dur addressing you as general...it's like "why didn't anyone tell me?!" ...disbelief...

 

Class is briefly reflected upon in dialogue in K1, when Trask for instance makes a reference to your 'smuggling' ways as a scoundrel and even Carth too I think, but otherwise it has little to no affect on the story if, iirc.

 

The question based character creation for your custom merc in Jagged Alliance 2 both affects your traits and your personality. Depending on how you answer you can actually become a bit unnerving to yourself and other party members as well. With a borderline 'psycho' trait in JA2 you will sometimes lose control and spray bullets all your enemies HA-HAAAA!!!

 

Of course I'd like to play a completely customized character, but I'd also like to see the relevance of it and an impact on the story...as the low-int char build in FO2 "ungh?", but I guess the Jedi Order would naturally root out chars like that...

[DAWUSS]

I wonder why the initial character creation in itself is so one-dimensional, empty and inane: Just picking initial strengths and skills without any background or inclination...from scratch, level 1, neutrality, tabula rasa, no name (as least never spoken)...defining your character through dialogue and action from *this* point and onwards...getting to know yourself from what anyone tells you about yourself. Like Bao-Dur addressing you as general...it's like "why didn't anyone tell me?!" ...disbelief...

 

Class is briefly reflected upon in dialogue in K1, when Trask for instance makes a reference to your 'smuggling' ways as a scoundrel and even Carth too I think, but otherwise it has little to no affect on the story if, iirc.

 

The question based character creation for your custom merc in Jagged Alliance 2 both affects your traits and your personality. Depending on how you answer you can actually become a bit unnerving to yourself and other party members as well. With a borderline 'psycho' trait in JA2 you will sometimes lose control and spray bullets all your enemies HA-HAAAA!!!

 

Of course I'd like to play a completely customized character, but I'd also like to see the relevance of it and an impact on the story...as the low-int char build in FO2 "ungh?", but I guess the Jedi Order would naturally root out chars like that...

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Like behaving a certain way will have NPCs labeling you a certain way? (ie. You heal a lot of NPCs and make a lot of medpacs, they'll view you as a medic or doc)

 

I think the personality bit also can be a determinant of the influence factor seen in K1 & K2. Also, one should be able to impact the other if there was a personality the player can give his character

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

I think he was talking about the Revan-Exile story.

 

 

And BTW, if we make K3 will an all-new cast, we'll just be doing EXACTLY what we did in K2 (when we sent off the main characters from K1), and you can only do that for so long until it gets old

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But where are you going to take them ? Revan is level 20 (probably higher now) Exile is anywhere from level 28 to level 50.

 

You cant just erase those. Revan is no longer playable now he has his own memory back. Exile is, but only as some sort of Jedi superman.

 

And RPG is about growth from obscurity to something "great" even if you take Baldurs Gate I/II BG was purposely capped at level 7/8 for that very reason, to give you somewhere to go.

 

Now I'm not familiar with the d20 SW rules only the WEG ones. But as I understand it Yoda is something like level 14 in those rules. And there are no EPIC SW rules.

 

No, what KOTOR II did was weave a new story into an old one. I'm talking about a new story period with only the most scant references to the previous games.

[DAWUSS]

I think he was talking about the Revan-Exile story.

 

 

And BTW, if we make K3 will an all-new cast, we'll just be doing EXACTLY what we did in K2 (when we sent off the main characters from K1), and you can only do that for so long until it gets old

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But where are you going to take them ? Revan is level 20 (probably higher now) Exile is anywhere from level 28 to level 50.

 

You cant just erase those. Revan is no longer playable now he has his own memory back. Exile is, but only as some sort of Jedi superman.

 

And RPG is about growth from obscurity to something "great" even if you take Baldurs Gate I/II BG was purposely capped at level 7/8 for that very reason, to give you somewhere to go.

 

Now I'm not familiar with the d20 SW rules only the WEG ones. But as I understand it Yoda is something like level 14 in those rules. And there are no EPIC SW rules.

 

No, what KOTOR II did was weave a new story into an old one. I'm talking about a new story period with only the most scant references to the previous games.

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You really don't need to have characters level up anymore. You don't necessarily need to level up to be an RPG (see Legend of Zelda). Since you made it seem that Revan is no longer playable, you could take that Jedi "superman" Exile (and it would seem reasonable here especially if we are building off K1 and K2) and play on from there

Edited December 9, 2005 by DAWUSS

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

You really don't need to have characters level up anymore. You don't necessarily need to level up to be an RPG (see Legend of Zelda). Since you made it seem that Revan is no longer playable, you could take that Jedi "superman" Exile (and it would seem reasonable here especially if we are building off K1 and K2) and play on from there

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Zelda isnt an RPG. Zelda pacing comes from discovering weapons that allow to solve puzzles and thereby advance deeper into the game.

 

You do "level up" in Zelda by accumulating more hearts. As well as by getting a new weapon or item.

 

Your link with 2 little hearts is million miles away from your link with 20.

 

Playing the Exile would be like playing TOB without playing BG or BGII first.

[Musopticon?]

Except that most Zelda games are entirely beatable with only the odd 3 hearts. It's really more of an action game. Even the puzzles are kind of arbitrary. Outside of Gameboy, I mean. Gameboy Zeldas had some rough puzzles.

 

Edit: Just something that I noted.

Edited December 9, 2005 by Musopticon?