France Upholds Law That Smooths History

[kumquatq3]

PARIS - France's parliament voted Tuesday to uphold a law that puts an upbeat spin on the country's painful colonial past, ignoring complaints from historians and the former French territory of Algeria.

 

The law, passed quietly this year, requires school textbooks to address France's "positive role" in its former colonies.

 

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20051129/ap_on_...gilding_history

 

The US needs to vote away slavery!

 

I'd post bad stuff about you other Euro countries, but it would seem you rnot important enough to have news about "

[Sarjahurmaaja.]

"I'd post bad stuff about you other Euro countries, but it would seem you rnot important enough to have news about"

 

Or, alternatively, our countries are blissful happylands with nothing bad about them. Ha!

[Lucius]

I think you tried that before Kumq, but we're just too good to be true.

[Surreptishus]

The Vikings did their colonising a long time ago - so you'd have to reach far back to get something on the Danes.

[Lucius]

Actually we had more fallen in the Waffen SS on the German East Front than we had in our resistance movement during WWII. "

Edited November 30, 2005 by Lucius

[SteveThaiBinh]

This law is a disgrace, and I'm surprised more isn't being made of it in the mainstream media. However, most countries don't need a law to glorify their dubious past deeds. In some countries, children learn nothing about history except how wonderful their country has always been.

[kirottu]

There was slight outcry in Finland when it became to know that there had been some enthnic cleansing here when we sided with Nazi German. Some handicapped people were killed. Boat full of jews was turned back and some jews were searched and sent to germany.

 

Civil war was too rather ugly part of Finland

Edited November 30, 2005 by kirottu

[Lucius]

This law is a disgrace, and I'm surprised more isn't being made of it in the mainstream media.  However, most countries don't need a law to glorify their dubious past deeds.  In some countries, children learn nothing about history except how wonderful their country has always been.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well in our case it's something most doesn't really talk about, I can't quite understand why though, just because folks wanted to fight communists doesn't mean they took part in the Holocaust. Not everyone in the SS served in death camps, far from it.

[kumquatq3]

I think you tried that before Kumq, but we're just too good to be true. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

iirc, your having some problems with minorities and such

 

 

and I still say the US should just vote away slavery now.

 

"Slavery? No, we voted that away years ago, sorry for the confusion."

Edited November 30, 2005 by kumquatq3

[Lucius]

iirc, your having some problems with minorities and such

As in street riots with car burnings? No. Mmmmmm Paris.

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

China and Japan had a similiar run in.

 

I think there is a difference between telling history and trying to guilt the current generation into something they have no responsibility for. I'm not going to feel bad just because so and so ancestor made a killing shipping slaves.

 

Different times should not be judged by contempory values.

[~Di]

Oh, those whacky French.

[Hurlshort]

Bliss over truth for teh win!

[Gabrielle]

I hate the French.

[SteveThaiBinh]

I hate the French. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

With less reason, I suspect, than many in their former colonies.

[kumquatq3]

iirc, your having some problems with minorities and such

As in street riots with car burnings? No. Mmmmmm Paris.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

No, less...vicious

 

I'll dig the old post up later

[Gabrielle]

I hate the French. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

With less reason, I suspect, than many in their former colonies.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I would feel pretty bad if my country used to be overlorded by those flakey tarts.

Edited December 1, 2005 by Gabrielle

[Azarkon]

China and Japan had a similiar run in.

 

I think there is a difference between telling history and trying to guilt the current generation into something they have no responsibility for. I'm not going to feel bad just because so and so ancestor made a killing shipping slaves.

 

Different times should not be judged by contempory values.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I don't think erasing any mentions of a country's past misdeeds or spinning them into an euphemism constitute "telling history."

 

But then this problem is intrinsic to any sort of historical education that attempts to imbue nationalist ideology at the same time. History should be about the cold, hard facts from both sides of the equation, good and bad. It should not dictate morals, nor make a decision as to which side to support in a controversy as pivotal to modern society as the rights and wrongs of Imperialism.

 

As far as guilt goes, this is how I see it: the only way you're going to feel guilt at your nation's past deeds is if you're a nationalist who cares deeply about your nation's history and position in the world. And if you're a nationalist who cares about such things, then you have an obligation to know exactly the mistakes your country committed so that your patriotism is not misguided. Misguided patriotism has cost humanity far too much to be taken lightly.

 

On the other hand, if you really didn't care about what your ancestors did in the past, then any mentions of them in history books are theoretically irrelevant to your conception of modern society. Therefore, it should not trouble you that the history books speak badly about your country.

 

As a result, I suspect that those who are complaining about not wanting to feel guilty about the past are in truth very much concerned with the past and dedicated nationalists. And if this is the case then I'd sooner that you know the past in all its terrible glory, then to repeat its mistakes. Remember, the so-called contemporary values that we abide by in modern society are a product of mistakes made in the past. If we stopped believing that those mistakes were in fact mistakes, then what incentive would we have of upholding these contemporary, post-colonial values?

Edited December 1, 2005 by Azarkon

[Walsingham]

You make an interesting case, Azarkon. I certainly have no hesitation in agreeing that one should accept your nation's history without blinkers on. However, it is my perception that many kids today learn only the bad about their nation's history. You could say some redress is needed. The first black bishop in the church of England, recently throned, said as much in his inaugural comments. Although he is from Uganda, and proud of it, he also said British People should be proud of the many good things the Empire did, as well as repenting the bad.

 

I also note you say history should not be a means of indoctrination, and particularly indoctrination of morality. A devil's advocate might say that public morality can ill afford to turn away any assistance whatsoever.

[Blank]

I also note you say history should not be a means of indoctrination, and particularly indoctrination of morality. A devil's advocate might say that public morality can ill afford to turn away any assistance whatsoever.

 

I think public morality can ill afford to turn away any assistance whatsoever.

 

Oh, okay that was a lame joke, but i actually think it is a good point...

 

I agree with what Azarkon said about history education, that it should be only the cold hard facts and not coated with different flavours to change what it actually is. I mean, there are other facets of education that can do that such as humanities or our own religion or whatever. we all make our own opinion anyway, but to be biased in reporting the facts is sickly demented, erm, i just think it is not fair.

 

< opinion alert , well, it was all my opinion, but this moreso >

For France to uphold that law in order to smooth their history is prideful and opens cause for strife in their dealings with other nations. Blank thinks this is unwise. Blank thinks Blank is lame for talking in third person. Blank does not edit this part so that everyone can see the cold hard facts of how lame Blank is.

Edited December 1, 2005 by Blank

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

You make an interesting case, Azarkon. I certainly have no hesitation in agreeing that one should accept your nation's history without blinkers on. However, it is my perception that many kids today learn only the bad about their nation's history. You could say some redress is needed. The first black bishop in the church of England, recently throned, said as much in his inaugural comments. Although he is from Uganda, and proud of it, he also said British People should be proud of the many good things the Empire did, as well as repenting the bad.

 

I also note you say history should not be a means of indoctrination, and particularly indoctrination of morality. A devil's advocate might say that public morality can ill afford to turn away any assistance whatsoever.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

That's quite true.

[Judge Hades]

Those who forget the mistakes of the past will often repeat them in the future. History needs to be as truthful and factful as possible, both the good and the bad, so that we humans can learn from our mistakes. This would be like Bushie boy trying to make sure the Trail of Tears and the Native American genocide wasn't taught. It should with full understanding of the atrocities that the United States Government caused. They were far greater than any Middle Eastern dictator could have done, that is for sure.

[Gabrielle]

Those who forget the mistakes of the past will often repeat them in the future.  History needs to be as truthful and factful as possible, both the good and the bad, so that we humans can learn from our mistakes.  This would be like Bushie boy trying to make sure the Trail of Tears and the Native American genocide wasn't taught.  It should with full understanding of the atrocities that the United States Government caused.  They were far greater than any Middle Eastern dictator could have done, that is for sure.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Lies. I was taught in school that our founding fathers were flawless and our country doesn't have skeletons in the closet.

 

End sarcasm.

 

 

It's a shame they teach kids propaganda, half truths, lies in school. Later on when you can think for yourself, you can learn the truth.

[kumquatq3]

I was taught.......and our country doesn't have skeletons in the closet.

 

We have a closet full of skeletons?!?!!?

 

My god, the X-files were right! Fight the Future!

[Gabrielle]