Oblivion megamovie

[Azarkon]

Course, that does mean that those who would rather see innovations elsewhere, such as in gameplay or character interaction, would be disappointed.  But hell, that forest is an awesome work of real-time procedural graphics, and having researched that topic myself in academia, I can tell you that what they did is quite impressive.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Those are not realtime.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Right, of course. What I meant was the real-time *rendering* of procedurally generated plants (the plants are of course generated off-time, per game I assume). That's not an easy thing to do because procedural methods have the tendency to inflate the number of polygons. This is the reason why programs like SpeedTree can generate very lush looking forests, but most games that use them end up looking like crap. You could fix this with artists going in and specifically modifying the scene to suit the game's needs, but that takes ALOT of time, so the fact that Oblivion managed to do this procedurally is certainly a step forward for games in general.

 

And with respect to the soil erosion and wind factors, etc. - these are all procedurally based graphic generation methods that haven't been used, to my knowledge, in games. This is why Oblivion is innovative technologically - because it manages to tackle with one of the biggest problems in game development: the overhead of modeling labor, which then frees artists to engage in more creative endeavors such as designing dungeons and cities.

[Guest Fishboot]

Right, of course. What I meant was the real-time *rendering* of procedurally generated plants (the plants are of course generated off-time, per game I assume).

 

Actually, I'd bet they're the same across all copies, installations and games. I'm sure there are things integrated into the forests by hand, touch ups here and there by artists, that sort of thing, that they'd prefer be the same across copies. Not to mention that I'd bet the process is quite calculationally intense - it may actually be enough FLOPs that it would add a serious delay to new games if done on the client machine.

 

That's not an easy thing to do because procedural methods have the tendency to inflate the number of polygons. This is the reason why programs like SpeedTree can generate very lush looking forests, but most games that use them end up looking like crap. You could fix this with artists going in and specifically modifying the scene to suit the game's needs, but that takes ALOT of time, so the fact that Oblivion managed to do this procedurally is certainly a step forward for games in general.

 

They actually licensed and then modified SpeedTree for their own use. I agree that Oblivion will be a landmark in that type of technology. The forests are quite transcendent, on a level I couldn't even really forsee games doing. Of course in retrospect it was inevitable, but I just didn't expect it.

[BattleCookiee]

This exchange might be slightly embarassing for us both, because disarming actually appears to be implemented in Oblivion.

 

It does retain that balance. It's part action, part stats. There's simply more things you can do. So your skills determine what combat moves you can do. As you level-up you unlock special moves that do more damage, can disarm your opponent, add more knockback to your strikes, and more. Whether you actually hit with this move is entirely action-based. You have to swing the sword and make contact. Your stats then determine how much damage is done. So your strength and weapon skill together do that, and then it gets modified by your opponent's armor skills and the actual armor you hit.

 

It could be me, but I don't see anywhere that enemies can also do that to you...

[jaguars4ever]

Well this is the next game in the series ladies & gents. Like any other series, the Elder Scrolls games have their inherent strengths and weaknesses, such as graphical immersion and hack and slash combat respectively. So why expect anything different? The only reason you'd be disappointed is if you falsely expect this to be something an Elder Scrolls games never was.

 

Just appreciate it for what it is. And yes - those forests were awesome.

[mkreku]

The problem with the Elder Scrolls series is that it always aims so high.. and misses by a small margin (ok, I admit that Morrowind missed by a mile or more). Everytime I play an Elder Scrolls game I get the feeling, "If only they had done this and that it would have been awesome". One of these days they're going to hit bullseye and who knows, maybe Oblivion will be it?

[jaguars4ever]

Yeah - but to be fair, I've never played any game where I felt it couldn't be better.

[Guest Fishboot]

The problem with the Elder Scrolls series is that it always aims so high.. and misses by a small margin (ok, I admit that Morrowind missed by a mile or more). Everytime I play an Elder Scrolls game I get the feeling, "If only they had done this and that it would have been awesome". One of these days they're going to hit bullseye and who knows, maybe Oblivion will be it?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

See, I find that endearing. Daggerfall and Arena were in many ways great games because Bethesda didn't know how to aim low, and instead aimed unbelievably high and missed by hundreds of miles. They made cities that could actually realistically support their population - enough houses to actually house a few thousand people, that kind of thing, and made the land at a 1:1 scale to reality- that is, if you were going to walk across the area of the Daggerfall map in real life, it would take the same time that it took in game. Dozens of regions, gigantic dungeons, hundreds of paper-thin quests and NPCs. Vampirism and Lycanthropy. Utter madness - half of it was awful, half of it was sublime, and the fact that a player could actually enjoy it was pure serendipity. In some ways I'm sad that they've become so slick in production and modest in scope, because they used to be so far outside of the mainstream that they couldn't see the shore.

Edited October 4, 2005 by Fishboot

[Plin]

The combat was short and uninteresting because the PC was uber. Also, there are combat perks to all the weapons (once you get the blade skill to a certain number you can get a chance for disarm or knockdown, bow gets a zoom, stuff like that).

 

There's probably going to be alot more since the whole demo seemed stripped of everything BUT what they wanted to show in it's linear path (for instance, the only two dialogue topics were the ones he was talking about/wanted to talk about and had planned to use, the actual "dialogue trees" only had one question that he planned on asking). I'm sure in the real game it will have a couple dialogue choices for quest NPCs and have fodder NPCs just be topics. The AI was pushed in a certain direction because he was playing it live, if something that happened that he wasn't expecting, his whole speech about features would have probably been messed up.

 

The whole dog thing was just a joke to get the E3 audience to laugh, something that I've noticed alot of people don't get (in most topics I've read about the video I always hear "omg, the AI sux, people are going to be burning dogs and ****!").

 

Big point of MW too. The PC was Uber way too fast, and the same low-level monsters kept coming up. So if it was just done by cheats has to be seen.

And knowdown/disarm and zoom, well, that's going to make it even easier (and boring)? How much damage can an enemy do when his Daedra Uber-Sword is not even in his hands? You can stop blocking/strafing right away and keep hacking (as in MW)

 

For the dialogue; as I said: Hopefully, but I fear the worst here. Since we have voices they can't just give 2000 NPC's the same "Last Rumor" without having a lot of lines recorded and taking up space...

But just the convo options needed, as seen in this movie, isn't going to help the "Freedom" feeling the ES-Series should have at all...

 

The dog thing: If it is a joke, then it would be pre-scripted = Bad Sign for the actual ingame AI. As said before "Fargoth's Quest" made for the movie anyone?

If it is NOT scripted then it is bad too, I don't wan't to loose NPC's just because another find he/she should kill him/her. That option should be only available to me; the PC...

 

The combat didn't seem very fun to me... It looked like somthing you would find as a button masher rather than an RPG. Magic I have never understood in those games. But they did add the ability to change places without spending money.

 

Which could also be a bad thing. Alot of Morrowinds lenght came of huge walking parts, if you can skip it instantly from any position free now, gameplay time may shorten by alot.

Plus would be FedEx jobs get less annoying; but now when they make those less annoying they remove most out of the game <_<

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

On uber too fast (and if you're denying he WAS uber, just look at the number of his health and mana in the video, look at how much he is damaged, and look how he started the game as an expert in blades, stealth and marksman etc.): They have implimented a system so that as you gain in power, enemies will as well. So certain NPCs/monsters, where it makes sense, will always be two or three (or whatever they choose for that specific monster/NPC) levels ahead (and probably with some, behind you) of you (though, that's not always the case, I've heard there are some who don't get stronger as you do). So that there will always be a challenge compared to Morrowind.

 

And knockdown, disarm etc. is just going to add more strategy to the combat (unless they impliment it badly, of cource).

 

Dialogue: No one is expecting 2000 NPCs (and I think the number of npcs is a little over 1000) to have alot of dialogue trees, it would be foolish to do so. But, it's not all that foolish to assume alot of the important quest NPCs will have at least a few dialogue choices to give more life to them. Even games like Fallout didn't have that many NPCs with diaogue choices, most NPCs that populated the world just spouted one liners. While in ESIV, they'll probably just have little more than dialogue topics to get information. And the voiceover IS taking alot of space because there is so much, it takes half the space of the DVD they're putting it on.

 

I don't think it matters about dialogue making you feel "free". ES games have never used dialogue in that way. It MIGHT help in making the game and NPCs feel more alive/immersive, and that's what was one of Morrowinds biggest faults (of the many).

 

The ways in which actual freedom has been improved is in the multiple ways to complete each quest that they are able to make. They've said they've gone to great lengths to improve on this as much as they can. We'll see what they come up with.

 

Heh, everything in that demo was pre-scripted to a certain extent (Uber, starting with armor, at this exact moment or place warp to the next act in the demo, NPCs only having dialogue topics of what he was planning to talk about, the NPCs going to talk about that specific topic at that exact moment). He was playing it LIVE in front of an AUDIENCE. There is no room for spontanious or errors in there. I'm going to assume it was not simply "pre-scripted" though (actually, they've described what they actually did, and it's not that). They just moved the AI indicators to make the NPCs much, much more likely to do this certain thing and that moment. And really, it doesn't give the most honest and straight-forward example of AI, but it DOES show how powerful it can be, and how unique an NPC can act from it. And how moving an AI indicator in a certain way to have this NPC more likely to do this (and the NPC figures out what to do itself based on it's surroundings), is much easier and better and more dynamic than scripting it exactly.

 

I think it can add ALOT to the quests, and apparently they have done alot with it in the quests. I can't wait to see what they've come up with.

 

Fast Travel: You don't HAVE to use it. If you feel you want to walk a few miles to a town you've already been to and explore, DO IT. If you feel it will be tedius and you just want to get there already, FAST TRAVEL. Best of both worlds. More freedom for the player with less tedium for the ones who don't want it.

Edited October 4, 2005 by Plin

[Arkan]

I know one thing....Fallout 3 is going to look f*cking amazing.

[jaguars4ever]

I know one thing....Fallout 3 is going to look f*cking amazing.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'm rather looking forward that aspect of Elder Scrolls Fallout, Arkan. :cool:

[Arkan]

I know one thing....Fallout 3 is going to look f*cking amazing.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'm rather looking forward that aspect of Elder Scrolls Fallout, Arkan. :cool:

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Hey, I didn't say the rest would be good (who knows yet, anyway?).

[kumquatq3]

I know one thing....Fallout 3 is going to look f*cking amazing.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I know, you can almost taste the light bloom <_<

Edited October 5, 2005 by kumquatq3

[Musopticon?]

Ouch

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

One of the real downers about the 360 is that it isnt going to end up as much more than a PC upgrade in what sort of games will appear.

 

Oblivion looks nice but looks havnt been something that the elder scrolls games have failed on. Rather the failures lie elsewhere. Nothing much seems to address those.

 

Sad thing is those whacky people at nintendo probably wont get the rewards they deserve for thinking outside the box because most people will just be happy with pretty eye candy.

[Judge Hades]

I just look at the games I play and the developers that make them. If they were going to the Nitendo side of things I would get a nitendo. If they were going the PS3 side of things I would get a PS3, and so on.

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

I just look at the games I play and the developers that make them.  If they were going to the Nitendo side of things I would get a nitendo.  If they were going the PS3 side of things I would get a PS3, and so on.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I tend to play a lot of different stuff although I do have some developer loyalties as well.

 

I've been mostly playing handhelds , managed to break my third PSP (way too delicate for a handheld).

 

I think i've seen more innovation in handhelds , probably because of lower costs. The Revolution controller is a fun little toy though with a lot of possibilities.

[Judge Hades]

Yes that is a great downside to the PSP. Isn't the GBA, the handheld staple for I don't know how long, more durable? I would think that not only raw computing power and graphical aspects, but durability would also be a major concern for handhelds.

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

Yes that is a great downside to the PSP.  Isn't the GBA, the handheld staple for I don't know how long, more durable?  I would think that not only raw computing power and graphical aspects, but durability would also be a major concern for handhelds.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

The most innovative thing Nintendo ever did was the flipover cover SP. The flip over cover was something that everyone should have taken note of.

 

Saitek released a PSP keyboard which does the same thing which has helped a lot but the unit still feels fragile compared to the DS or SP.

[Judge Hades]

I think that will be the PSP's downfall then. You just can't have a fragile handheld that costs $200+ when a more durable one costs less than $100 now. I know I won't spend that much money on something that can break like a trig.

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

I think that will be the PSP's downfall then.  You just can't have a fragile handheld that costs $200+ when a more durable one costs less than $100 now.  I know I won't spend that much money on something that can break like a trig.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Could be , althouh most of the people I know play it at home rather than out and about where its less of an issue.

 

Gamewise it's pretty bland right now. Mostly been watching anime and Japanese movies on the thing. The fact that the DS has the whole GBA library to draw on definately gives it the edge in the games department.

[Judge Hades]

Backwards compability would dothat every single time. It is indeed the same advantage that the PS3 has over the X Box 360.

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

Backwards compability would dothat every single time.    It is indeed the same advantage that the PS3 has over the X Box 360.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

So true its what keeps the machines from gathering dust for the first 6-12 months of launch.

 

Even if I did buy a 360 at launch there is maybe 1 or 2 titles I'm mildly interested in (DOA IV wont be ready outside of Japan).

That means depending on the titles I'm done within a week (maybe two). The PS3 wont be any different with regards to launch titles I'm interested in most likely. But I have a huge library of PS2 games to see me through the lean times :cool:

 

I'm also really dubious about the multiple configurations on the 360 and the tiny ammount of disk space a regular DVD offers. I've already seen first hand what that means for some games.

[Judge Hades]

Well, I have yet seena game that requires multiple DVDs. They are freaking huge.

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

Well, I have yet seena game that requires multiple DVDs.  They are freaking huge.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Not so much in game terms. One of the movies for DOA 4 took up about 1/5 of the total space on the DVD. Higher res graphics and more graphical effects pretty much double the space used this time around.

 

The guys working on the 360 JRPG (the thing that was supposed to sell the 360 to Japan) ran out of room and the mags over their had a field day with that one. PC games are starting to ship in DVD's and they still need to be decompressed at the end of it. Not an option when you dont have a HD as a standard piece of kit.

 

At least with blu ray you actually have somewhere to go in terms of design without constantly having to watch the space issues. I'm irked that MS went with obsolete tech just to get a jump on Sony if it turns out that will bite them in the butt, well so much the better.

 

Since the next gen games are retailing at

Edited October 6, 2005 by ShadowPaladin V1.0

[Judge Hades]

I heard about that but it seems that it is poor planning and compression than actually being something wrong with the X Box 360.