A plot suggestion

[Sammael]

I haven't played much KotOR, but I understand that there is a choice to be made whether the player wants to join the Dark Side or the Light Side. Which is fine and dandy, but... here's a (hopefully) fresh idea: make the player character start out as belonging to the Dark Side in the beginning, and make him work towards redemption if he wishes to join the Light Side.

[Tigranes]

Hmm... that's a refreshing idea. If it's done well it could be very unique. Furthermore, this could actually mean one could really be a champion of evil... some kind of Evil Overlord at least, instead of just another greedy adventurer.

[Diogo Ribeiro]

Final Fantasy 4 already did this :D

[tripleRRR]

I like it. Good idea Sammael.

 

 

TripleRRR

[Iolo]

Sounds good to me. In fact, that would have been a better story for Revan's redemption than what happened in KOTOR1.

 

FF4 shipped how long ago?

[Diogo Ribeiro]

^Eons ago

 

FF4 had the standard drama of a Dark Knight on a quest to become a Paladin. Rather simplistic and contrived, but it was the first thing i remembered when i read what Sammael wrote

[Tigranes]

FF4? Cecil was .... 1991? Besides, his kingdom was so ridiculously downright evil. Prologue involves killing innocents for greed. Booring.

[Plin]

make the player

heh, doesn't that kind of kill the role playing?

I'm not against it, but it would seem like those anal guys around wouldn't like this.

[Tigranes]

Talk about out of context. *In* context, going against that phrase would mean you are against any kind of predetermined beginning of a game. What do you want, an option to start wherever you want belonging to whoever? Yeah... wonder how long that'd take.

[Iolo]

^Eons ago

 

FF4 had the standard drama of a Dark Knight on a quest to become a Paladin. Rather simplistic and contrived, but it was the first thing i remembered when i read what Sammael wrote

It was so long ago then it would be a hard case to say that they copied it from FF4. Just about everything in a CRPG has been done at what point or another. I am sure it wouldn't stop something from saying it though just like how some talk about how much Planescape Torment stole from Final Fantasy (and I don't really mean the spell cutscenes either).

[Iolo]

make the player

heh, doesn't that kind of kill the role playing?

I'm not against it, but it would seem like those anal guys around wouldn't like this.

No it wouldn't actually. 'Role playing' an evil character for redemption or going worse into the dark side would still be role playing and to some extent the game would probably play like Planescape Torment. The character in Planescape Torment certainly had things to atone for.

[kumquatq3]

Well, I like Sammaels idea (never played ff4), but it's prolly a bit late in the game to be messing with the basics of the plot. Tho I suspect he knew that and was throwing this out just for discussion.

[Sammael]

make the player

heh, doesn't that kind of kill the role playing?

I'm not against it, but it would seem like those anal guys around wouldn't like this.

Yes, some of the "anal" guys around would certainly diss the idea, because they somehow think role-playing is only possible with a blank-slate character. I do not share their views.

 

However, my idea is no more imposing on the protagonist than the idea that he starts out as a Republic soldier in KotOR. Instead, he simply starts off working for the Sith and has an option to turn to the Light Side during the game.

 

Yes, this idea is more theoretical and aimed at future games than it is at KotOR2.

[Diogo Ribeiro]

^Eons ago

 

FF4 had the standard drama of a Dark Knight on a quest to become a Paladin. Rather simplistic and contrived, but it was the first thing i remembered when i read what Sammael wrote

It was so long ago then it would be a hard case to say that they copied it from FF4. Just about everything in a CRPG has been done at what point or another. I am sure it wouldn't stop something from saying it though just like how some talk about how much Planescape Torment stole from Final Fantasy (and I don't really mean the spell cutscenes either).

I wasn't saying it copied from it, just that it was the first thing i remembered when i read Sam's initial idea. Having replayed it recently, it was easier to remember.

[roshan]

make the player

heh, doesn't that kind of kill the role playing?

I'm not against it, but it would seem like those anal guys around wouldn't like this.

Yes, some of the "anal" guys around would certainly diss the idea, because they somehow think role-playing is only possible with a blank-slate character. I do not share their views.

 

However, my idea is no more imposing on the protagonist than the idea that he starts out as a Republic soldier in KotOR. Instead, he simply starts off working for the Sith and has an option to turn to the Light Side during the game.

 

Yes, this idea is more theoretical and aimed at future games than it is at KotOR2.

i really like the redemption idea.

 

but lets face it. 90% of gamers are incredibly brainless and have no roleplaying skills. they want blank characters, not complex characters with past backgrounds. and this is the major complaint about planescape torment.

 

whats hypocritical about these foolish people is that they say they want to roleplay their character, but in the end the character they play and create is just another stereotyped fantasy build such as the mysterious dual wielding elven ranger etc.

[Sarjahurmaaja.]

"90% of gamers are incredibly brainless and have no roleplaying skills. they want blank characters, not complex characters with past backgrounds. and this is the major complaint about planescape torment."

 

That's bull. No need to spew elitist garbage here.

 

Major complaints were the lack of character generation, the lack of half-decent combat, general weirdness and the unbelievable amount of text that made Torment feel more like an interactive book than a game.

 

I loved that damn book, by the way.

[roshan]

Its not "bull". It is a fact. In my years of debating with those who are against planescape torment, the main complaint they had is they wanted blank slate characters so that they could recreate their favourite fantasy stereotypes.

[Volourn]

Pot. Kettle. Black.

[roshan]

Pot. Kettle. Black.

dog. fire. wind.

[Iolo]

Sky. Water. Blue.

 

Oh wait a minute. Water isn't blue is it Volourn.

 

[Volourn]

[Magena]

but lets face it. 90% of gamers are incredibly brainless and have no roleplaying skills. they want blank characters, not complex characters with past backgrounds. and this is the major complaint about planescape torment.

 

whats hypocritical about these foolish people is that they say they want to roleplay their character, but in the end the character they play and create is just another stereotyped fantasy build such as the mysterious dual wielding elven ranger etc.

Lets face it, a good 90% of men are incredibly brainless.... and if they didn't start off that way, the lower a females neckline, the more brainless a guy gets.

 

however, even with that in consideration, yes there are many who want to recreate some character that they read or watched or something - though I will admit that I have rarely run into those playing pnp, and when I did, those characters only lasted a game or two, and then they moved on to a different character, because their characters didn't work well with the group. ---- ahhhhhhhh but what wonderful canon fodder. ^_^

 

One nice thing about Doom, is that you really don't care about your character, just what is going on in front of you and if you can kill them before they get you.

 

 

The thing that I didn't like about Torment as far as characters, is that yes, I couldn't create my own character... but then I don't tend to play males very often, so that was rather strange for me also.

 

 

hubby just pointed out to me that there are two kinds of people in the world, those who are as stupid as he is, and those who are too stupid to realize they are as stupid as he is. :D

[Gorth]

...the lower a females neckline, the more brainless a guy gets.

In that case, I dont mind being completely braindead, as in int = 1

[Iolo]

I think Int can be 0 which would be completely brain dead.

[Tigranes]

Major complaints were the lack of character generation, the lack of half-decent combat, general weirdness and the unbelievable amount of text that made Torment feel more like an interactive book than a game.

 

This is more to the truth; the *huge* complaints were 1) An incredible amount of text, and 2) Crap, crap, crap combat. Then we latch onto other flaws of the nich