Jade Empire Bombed

[Guest Fishboot]

And someone said most games take a loss of profit.  That's insane.  This is a growth industry.  The problem is it only takes one or two clunkers to sink a developer.  Eventually small time developers will all be forced to work with huge companies like EA...just like the movie studios.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

No, in fact the majority of games lose money, and are financed by the megahits. This is why a diversified entity like EA can eat the market. The average profit per title of video games (see the Costikyan article in the current Escapist) is negative.

 

Edit - average, not median

Edited September 1, 2005 by Fishboot

[metadigital]

"I've never seen anyone say it "bombed", but it's certainly modest sales at best. BioWare presumably has the resources to take a long term view and grow the brand but this time around probably lost them money, which is hardly a huge success."

 

Lots of people have. You shoudl read around. The IGN article itself says its a 'financial failure', and other sseem toa gree. In fact, on the BIO board people had a thread 'JE a financial failure'. There are other examples to.

 

And, oh, lost money?

 

JE sold 500k+ copies. Let's say the average retail price is $50. That is 25 million dollars. I'd be surprised if the game cost that much to make and to market. And, that's assuming 500k minimum copies were sold.

 

My point is, few games cna even hope to reach 500k copies in about 5-6 months like JE. It didn't bomb. Sure, if you were expecting BG-NWN- KOTOR type of numbers it bombed; but I doubt that's what they were going for. Afterall, JE only had BIO's name to sell it which as much as I like BIO cannot match the selling power of the SW names or the D&D names so of course JE loses out to those other games.

 

Just sayin'. "

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Pssst. Volo. read this

 

 

7% of 25M = $1,750,000.

Edit: Can't read calculator screen at 1280x1024 resolution and small fonts; moral of the tale is to not be lazy and eschew the use of calc.exe.

 

That's got to feed, cloth and shelter all the Bioware devs and their families, from the last, until the next cash injection (Two years? Three? No wonder they are so keen to get the next one out the door, they need the cash flow.). (Less any upfront investment that was put in by publishers, if there were any.)

[Judge Hades]

Indeed. It would be silly and a waste of time porting it over. Frankly I would have no idea how they would port the controls over with keyboard and mouse. The gameplay just wouldn't mesh.

[jaguars4ever]

Some would say the same about Knights too. But it still worked didn't it? and if they had to they could use a similar control scheme as FF7

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Those are turned based games. JE is real-time combat. You simply can't jump, roll, move, heal, change style/transform & camera angle all at the same time using a Mouse & Keyboard.

[metadigital]

Indeed.  It would be silly and a waste of time porting it over.  Frankly I would have no idea how they would port the controls over with keyboard and mouse.  The gameplay just wouldn't mesh.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That wouldn't stop a suit, and you know it.

[Calax]

Some would say the same about Knights too. But it still worked didn't it? and if they had to they could use a similar control scheme as FF7

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Those are turned based games. JE is real-time combat. You simply can't jump, roll, move, heal & change style/transform & camera angle all at the same time using a Mouse & Keyboard.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

you could say the same things about Fable but they be porting that...

[Judge Hades]

And they are wasting their time and money doing so.

[Guest Fishboot]

7% of 25M = $175,000.

 

That's got to feed, cloth and shelter all the Bioware devs and their families until the next cash injection. (Less any upfront investment that was put in by publishers, if there were any.)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I.75M you mean, of course. Still not a good number. I'd also bet that Bio gets a significantly better cut than that, since I'd guess they majority finance their work internally instead of having to rely on milestone forwards on royalties. So I'd bet JE is somewhere between minor miss and minor hit for Bio, although they might value getting a possible new franchise started.

[Judge Hades]

Perhaps JE will be Bioware's and X-Box's Final Fantasy.

[Calax]

That would mean that it would be bought out by Microsoft game studios...

[Judge Hades]

Why?

[metadigital]

Perhaps JE will be Bioware's and X-Box's Final Fantasy.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yeah, a loss leader to kickstart a franchise.

[Judge Hades]

Loss leader?

 

Its a good game and besides Halo 3 and Oblivion are kickstarting X-Box 360.

[jaguars4ever]

Loss leader?

 

Its a good game and besides Halo 3 and Oblivion are kickstarting X-Box 360.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Don't forget Football Manager 2006 (the latest incarnation of the legendary Championship Manager series)!! :cool:

[metadigital]

Loss leader?

 

Its a good game and besides Halo 3 and Oblivion are kickstarting X-Box 360.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Not to kickstart the blinking XBox, to kickstart the Jade Empire franchise!

[><FISH'>]

And they are wasting their time and money doing so.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Why?

[metadigital]

And they are wasting their time and money doing so.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Why?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Because it will be one of those games that has crappy controls BECAUSE it was ported from the console.

[Judge Hades]

Loss leader?

 

Its a good game and besides Halo 3 and Oblivion are kickstarting X-Box 360.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Not to kickstart the blinking XBox, to kickstart the Jade Empire franchise!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

But JE was a good game.

[Child of Flame]

Some would say the same about Knights too. But it still worked didn't it? and if they had to they could use a similar control scheme as FF7

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Those are turned based games. JE is real-time combat. You simply can't jump, roll, move, heal, change style/transform & camera angle all at the same time using a Mouse & Keyboard.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Jump = Space

Roll = RMB

Move = W-A-S-D

Heal = Shift

Change Style/Transform = Scroll Wheel

Camera Angle = X/Y Axis on the Mouse

 

What's so hard about that?

 

I've messed around with harder control schemes.

 

You can easily have a finger on all those buttons at the same time.

 

Failing that, include an option for a joypad.

 

Assuming there is an attack button, map that to the LMB, and if there's different types of attacks triggered by that attack button, have the attack be modified by the movement keys.

[Atreides]

If the project's internally funded, interest doesn't need to be paid to another company. The money stays within the company but you still need to make sure that you're getting an acceptable return on the project and you can set it at what you think's appropriate. If the expected return's not acceptable then you shouldn't be starting the project anyway.

 

As for the 7% - are salary/overhead costs part of the expenses in calculating the 7% or do they come from the 7%? Technically a project can have a net present value (NPV) of 0 and still be ok if your expenses have been imputed into the costs in calculating the NPV (which is how it should be done).

[metadigital]

Loss leader?

Its a good game and besides Halo 3 and Oblivion are kickstarting X-Box 360.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Not to kickstart the blinking XBox, to kickstart the Jade Empire franchise!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

But JE was a good game.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

But it only sold 500,000 copies.

[jaguars4ever]

Loss leader?

Its a good game and besides Halo 3 and Oblivion are kickstarting X-Box 360.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Not to kickstart the blinking XBox, to kickstart the Jade Empire franchise!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

But JE was a good game.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

But it only sold 500,000 copies.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

And how many did PS:T sell?

 

I'm sorry, but market demand is not directly proportion to quality.

[metadigital]

If the project's internally funded, interest doesn't need to be paid to another company.  The money stays within the company but you still need to make sure that you're getting an acceptable return on the project and you can set it at what you think's appropriate.  If the expected return's not acceptable then you shouldn't be starting the project anyway.

 

As for the 7% - are salary/overhead costs part of the expenses in calculating the 7% or do they come from the 7%?  Technically a project can have a net present value (NPV) of 0 and still be ok if your expenses have been imputed into the costs in calculating the NPV (which is how it should be done).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

IIRC the 7% was the net figure given to a developer after everyone else has taken their bit, up to and including the publisher. (The headline figure was a 15% margin, which was referred to as the top end of the scale.)

 

The sunk costs of the publisher (on marketing and whatnot) are taken out of the amount the developer gets, with priority.

 

Obviously if Bioware self-published, they have taken some of the inherent risk and therefore wil not have to shell out as much (no publisher cut and loss of IP), but they still have to pay all the marketing and other upfront costs, not to mention keep the develoeprs alive until the next release.

[Judge Hades]

But it only sold 500,000 copies.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

So, what does that have to do with me? All I care about is getting a good game.

[metadigital]

And how many did PS:T sell?

 

I'm sorry, but market demand is not directly proportion to quality.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Never said it was.

 

I was making an economic assessment about how the business plan might easily have been to buy market share with a new game, Jade Empire; under these auspices it can be termed a "loss leader" in reference to the marketing terminology, because it is establishing a new franchise that will not require as much marketing in the future (as it is an established entity in the marketplace).