Hurricane!

[Child of Flame]

Do you know how hard I'm having to resist making a comment like "Good, I'm always glad to see Black Catholic Americans die."  It's not because I am but because you said not to. 

 

But I'm not, because that's against forum policy so NYAH!

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You're absolutely incorrigible! :madr: :D

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If you think I'm incorrigible, you'd get a kick out of meeting my dad. :ph34r:

[kumquatq3]

What kind of society is this? Do we have a shake head emoticon?

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Then again, you come from near a place were they riot because of bad calls by a ref in a football match

[Cantousent]

What kind of society is this? Do we have a shake head emoticon?

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Then again, you come from near a place were they riot because of bad calls by a ref in a football match

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AHA! Touche. ...But it's not nearly as bad in Denmark as it is in the UK. "

[Calax]

EDIT: Just saw on CNN that Dr.Phil is counceling hurricane survivors.......

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They're gonna wish themselves back to New Orleans before long...

 

- Kill Phil

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Who else wants Phil to be replaced by Dr. Drew?

[Lucius]

What kind of society is this? Do we have a shake head emoticon?

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Then again, you come from near a place were they riot because of bad calls by a ref in a football match

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Our footballs fans are notoriously... peaceful, they're called "Roligans" for a reason. "Rolig" means calm, so I guess your jab at us wasn't as effective as you might have anticipated.

 

However English football has a notoriously violent hooligan movement, you might be thinking about them and not the Danish, who knows.

[metadigital]

I think the English fans have a bad rap.

 

Sure, there is a criminal xenophobic underclass element, but this is an extreme minority.

 

Certainly now, when the authorities use CCTV and preventative measures to ensure that anyone even remotely suspected of thinking about some perpetrated violence that happened near to where they might have thought about attending a match are banned for life and forbidden from travelling to overseas destinations that are due to hold a match in the next millennia.

[Lucius]

I think the English fans have a bad rap.

 

Sure, there is a criminal xenophobic underclass element, but this is an extreme minority.

 

Certainly now, when the authorities use CCTV and preventative measures to ensure that anyone even remotely suspected of thinking about some perpetrated violence that happened near to where they might have thought about attending a match are banned for life and forbidden from travelling to overseas destinations that are due to hold a match in the next millennia.

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I guess a lot of them are banned from entering Copenhagen then, they wrecked half the city a few years ago when they went head to head with Turkish fans (who was also out of control, mind you).

[kumquatq3]

What kind of society is this? Do we have a shake head emoticon?

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Then again, you come from near a place were they riot because of bad calls by a ref in a football match

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Our footballs fans are notoriously... peaceful, they're called "Roligans" for a reason. "Rolig" means calm, so I guess your jab at us wasn't as effective as you might have anticipated.

 

Note that I said "Near You". I had no idea how the fans are in Denmark, I was referencing other spots in Europe.

 

aka, Europe isn't some kind of magically peaceful place that isn't prone to dark moments. Hell, France to is having lots of racial issues currently.

 

They just havn't had a big ole' flood in Paris yet.

[metadigital]

I think the English fans have a bad rap.

 

Sure, there is a criminal xenophobic underclass element, but this is an extreme minority.

 

Certainly now, when the authorities use CCTV and preventative measures to ensure that anyone even remotely suspected of thinking about some perpetrated violence that happened near to where they might have thought about attending a match are banned for life and forbidden from travelling to overseas destinations that are due to hold a match in the next millennia.

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I guess a lot of them are banned from entering Copenhagen then, they wrecked half the city a few years ago when they went head to head with Turkish fans (who was also out of control, mind you).

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Yes I remember the headlines. My impression (which may be wrong) was that the worst violence was started by the Turkish supporters, and only in direst self-defence did the English supporters retaliate.

 

The authorities are adamant about this, and the supporters (who aren't homocidal nationalistic xenophobes pretending to be supporters of football) are sick of it, too.

[Lucius]

What kind of society is this? Do we have a shake head emoticon?

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Then again, you come from near a place were they riot because of bad calls by a ref in a football match

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Our footballs fans are notoriously... peaceful, they're called "Roligans" for a reason. "Rolig" means calm, so I guess your jab at us wasn't as effective as you might have anticipated.

 

Note that I said "Near You". I had no idea how the fans are in Denmark, I was referencing other spots in Europe.

 

aka, Europe isn't some kind of magically peaceful place that isn't prone to dark moments. Hell, France to is having lots of racial issues currently.

 

They just havn't had a big ole' flood in Paris yet.

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Well you really should have been more specific then, I really can't be bothered with what people do in football matches in nearby nations, since it has nothing to do with my nation, we're not a federation here, remember that.

But sure, I'm not saying that there isn't problems in Europe, I'm just saying that the situation in New Orleans looks like a society in decay. Why all these poor black people? Why all these guns?

 

Btw. Paris is above sea level.

 

EDIT: Indeed Meta, the Turkish supporters were also known for their violent nature, if memory serves. And it's really positive that so many fan clubs are distancing themselves to the hardcore hooligans.

[kumquatq3]

Well you really should have been more specific then, I really can't be bothered with what people do in football matches in nearby nations, since it has nothing to do with my nation, we're not a federation here, remember that. 

 

Fair enough, but when you and your gang of hooligans from Finland start to "bring it", you should realize that America is much larger and more diverse in most respects (good and bad) than your nations.

 

So when you make a blanket statment about the US, it's alot like me making a blanket statement about Europe.

 

Turn about is fair play and all that.

 

 

But sure, I'm not saying that there isn't problems in Europe, I'm just saying that the situation in New Orleans looks like a society in decay.

 

What society? All of American society? We're one country, but we are very different states and people across this land.

 

 

Why all these poor black people? Why all these guns?

 

1. N.O. is largely a "poor black city" fueled by tourism. I could find you some "poor white cities" in the south if you want.

 

2. Because many many guns stores we're prolly robbed. That, and it's the south. Everyone has a gun and a bible. Thats just what they do :shrug:

 

I don't question the Italians about being able to legally pat a ladies butt

 

Btw. Paris is above sea level. 

 

I hate/love you

[Lucius]

Fair enough, but when you and your gang of hooligans   from Finland start to "bring it", you should realize that America is much larger and more diverse in most respects (good and bad) than your nations.

 

 

So when you make a blanket statment about the US, it's alot like me making a blanket statement about Europe.

 

Turn about is fair play and all that.

Are you implying that you are more different than, say, a Dane and a Spaniard? Or an Austrian and a Greek? All whom does not only not share a mutually understandable language, they also have thousands of years of national history, culture and traditions. Seriously? :D

 

What society? All of American society? We're one country, but we are very different states and people across this land.

The far south, I do know that societies vary within the states, even though you might not believe it.

 

1. N.O. is largely a "poor black city" fueled by tourism. I could find you some "poor white cities" in the south if you want.

 

2. Because many many guns stores we're prolly robbed. That, and it's the south. Everyone has a gun and a bible. Thats just what they do :shrug:

 

I don't question the Italians about being able to legally pat a ladies butt

 

1. I see, but why is this a "poor black" city? Why this 'subclass'? And are there really cities which, if a flood hit it, would have thousands upon thousands of poor white people standing and dying in the streets?

 

2. Yeah well, I just never understood the whole "its our god given right" thing and the NRA, I just can't see anything "good" in having these stores.

 

(3) What was that? Freudian slip or are you trying tell me something ?

 

I hate/love you

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[kumquatq3]

Are you implying that you are more different than, say, a Dane and a Spaniard? Or an Austrian and a Greek? All whom does not only not share a mutually understandable language, they also have thousands of years of national history, culture and traditions. Seriously

 

Please don't alter my meanings or put words in my mouth.

 

I was simply implying that when you ask "What kind of society is this?", you have to know that there is a difference between people of this country. Just look at how we vote. While different senerios, this kind of thing didn't happen in NY during 9/11.

 

The far south, I do know that societies vary within the states, even though you might not believe it. 

 

I didn't suggest that you didn't. Just that your comments don't make that distinction. Much like you said mine don't.

 

1. I see, but why is this a "poor black" city? Why this 'subclass'? And are there really cities which, if a flood hit it, would have thousands upon thousands of poor white people standing and dying in the streets?

 

havn't been to the midwest, have you?

 

2. Yeah well, I just never understood the whole "its our god given right" thing and the NRA, I just can't see anything "good" in having these stores.

 

For every "bad" story report, I promise you there is many more stories of some guy using his boat to rescue neighbors. Or people sharing food and water with those who need it more.

 

You just have to dig a bit more for those.

 

That, of course, doesn't excuse the bad.

 

(3) What was that? Freudian slip or are you trying tell me something  ?

 

What do you want it to be

[Lucius]

Please don't alter my meanings or put words in my mouth.

 

I was simply implying that when you ask "What kind of society is this?", you have to know that there is a difference between people of this country. Just look at how we vote. While different senerios, this kind of thing didn't happen in NY during 9/11.

Ah, but I didn't. You said that you're larger and more diverse, I say that the USA and Europe are just as big in terms of landmass, and Europe has 700million people in some 48-50 (can't remember) different nations, in which there are vastly different cultures and languages.

 

I didn't suggest that you didn't. Just that your comments don't make that distinction. Much like you said mine don't.

Now you know.

 

havn't been to the midwest, have you? 

Not even close, I'd still like to know why this 'subclass' even exists in the first place, though.

 

For every "bad" story report, I promise you there is many more stories of some guy using his boat to rescue neighbors. Or people sharing food and water with those who need it more.

 

You just have to dig a bit more for those.

 

That, of course, doesn't excuse the bad.

I've only heard bad news here so far, even your National Guard is made out to be utterly incompetent, and the same goes for the Bush Administration.

 

What do you want it to be 

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Now now, that would be telling.

[Calax]

My mother is thinking about taking in a family, we have two extra rooms.

[metadigital]

Just so long as you don't get jealous.

[kumquatq3]

Ah, but I didn't. You said that you're larger and more diverse, I say that the USA and Europe are just as big in terms of landmass, and Europe has 700million people in some 48-50 (can't remember) different nations, in which there are vastly different cultures and languages.

 

Yes, I compared it to individual nations tho. I didn't say Europe. You did. I thought that it would be unfairly grouping them to just say Europe

 

Wait, how come you can group Europe together to compare it to the US, but I can't????

 

but about your point:

 

Are you implying that you are more different than, say, a Dane and a Spaniard? Or an Austrian and a Greek? All whom does not only not share a mutually understandable language, they also have thousands of years of national history, culture and traditions. Seriously? 

 

I was in a rush and didn't address this as well as I wanted to:

 

What I should have said it: almost

 

America just didn't appear one day. All those people you talk about: Danes, Spaniard, Austrian, Greek, etc....they came here and brought all that culture and language with them. IIRC, Chicago is second to only Warsaw in terms of the city with the largest polish population. And there are even more Germans and Irish than there are Polish! The Almanac of American Politics 2004 states that "Even today, in Archer Heights [a neighborhood of Chicago], you can scarcely go a block without hearing someone speaking Polish". And thats just one city!

 

So all that history, culture and traditions you speak of that seperates the people of Europe...that didn't just get wiped out when they came here. It remains.

 

Except we also have lots of Asian, Hispanic, Muslim, and African American too.

 

All these cultures remain, as do the languages. If your ever in Chicago I'll take Chinatown or Greek Town or maybe to the German or Polish sections. Maybe we'll go see the Puerto Rican day parade. Or the African American Pride Parade.

 

Sure, it's obvious that we generally have one language to connect us all (tho if you go to a major city, you might not know it outside the touristy areas), but even that varies do to regional dialect. Which can be so heavy that I have trouble understanding everything.

 

And of course, this is America, different cultures blend to become "americana". Where European countries, in my expirence, seem to be more focused on preserving their own cultures.

 

So you see, it very possible that I can pick two random people from any European country (or hell, Europe) and two from America, and have the Americans be more different in culture and history.

 

I mean, something tells me that a Cuban American from Miami and a Native Alaskan vary just a bit.

 

 

Now you know. 

 

And knowing is half the battle. Gooooooooooo Joe.

 

I've only heard bad news here so far, even your National Guard is made out to be utterly incompetent, and the same goes for the Bush Administration.

 

 

I'm not defending the goverments response.

 

Only saying most of those people arn't forming hunting packs and shooting to kill.

 

Most are good people.

 

Not even close, I'd still like to know why this 'subclass' even exists in the first place, though.

 

You mean "poor" and "rich". Say hi to capitalism. It's not always pretty, but it stands the test of time well.

 

Now now, that would be telling. 

 

tease

 

I'll be gone for awhile, so if I don't respond, thats why

[Lucius]

It's very late here so I'll postpone my response until tomorrow.

[Cantousent]

Big brother Eldar is watching you. It's rather tedious wathing you, but he is! hahaha

 

Still, good heated debate. I'm kind of hoping you guys don't go "flame on!" It's a decent debate so far.

 

I will say that subclases of folks live everywhere. We could pretend that there aren't rich and poor in every nation on earth, or that folks aren't distinguished by physical or ethnic characteristics, but it would be a lie.

 

BTW: the federal government is not allowed to use the national guard as a police force. It's a big part of the problem. I agree with preventing the national guard from being used as a police force. Every hundred years or so, we might regret a slower response from state and local police, but the rest of the time, I don't want the army acting as police in my state. Now, the NG can shoot folks shooting at them, but they can't arrest anyone as I understand it. I like that better, even if it means, once in every long while, they are restricted when we could use them.

 

If we live a lie by pretending that

[kumquatq3]

BTW:  the federal government is not allowed to use the national guard as a police force. 

 

states can for short periods of time if the Governer sign off

[Calax]

  I'm kind of hoping you guys don't go "flame on!" 

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We're the fantastic... thousand?

[Lucius]

Yes, I compared it to individual nations tho. I didn't say Europe. You did. I thought that it would be unfairly grouping them to just say Europe

 

Wait, how come you can group Europe together to compare it to the US, but I can't????

 

Now now, as much as I know you'd like to turn my own arguments against me ^_^, you did in fact mention "Europe" first as seen here, and I used it only to show you that this continent is as big as, and in my opinion more diverse than the US, which then leads me back to the initial point of my argument that "we" are not a single nations such as you, and how citizens of a different European nation behave after or during a football match really has nothing to do with me. I know you said that this wasn't what you meant, but this was how I understood your response at any rate.

 

I was in a rush and didn't address this as well as I wanted to:

 

What I should have said it: almost

 

America just didn't appear one day. All those people you talk about: Danes, Spaniard, Austrian, Greek, etc....they came here and brought all that culture and language with them. IIRC, Chicago is second to only Warsaw in terms of the city with the largest polish population. And there are even more Germans and Irish than there are Polish! The Almanac of American Politics 2004 states that "Even today, in Archer Heights [a neighborhood of Chicago], you can scarcely go a block without hearing someone speaking Polish". And thats just one city!

 

So all that history, culture and traditions you speak of that seperates the people of Europe...that didn't just get wiped out when they came here. It remains.

 

Except we also have lots of Asian, Hispanic, Muslim, and African American too.

 

All these cultures remain, as do the languages. If your ever in Chicago I'll take Chinatown or Greek Town or maybe to the German or Polish sections. Maybe we'll go see the Puerto Rican day parade. Or the African American Pride Parade.

 

Sure, it's obvious that we generally have one language to connect us all (tho if you go to a major city, you might not know it outside the touristy areas), but even that varies do to regional dialect. Which can be so heavy that I have trouble understanding everything.

 

And of course, this is America, different cultures blend to become "americana". Where European  countries, in my expirence, seem to be more focused on preserving their own cultures.

 

So you see, it very possible that I can pick two random people from any European country (or hell, Europe) and two from America, and have the Americans be more different in culture and history.

 

I mean, something tells me that a Cuban American from Miami and a Native Alaskan vary just a bit.

Yeah, I know of the cosmopolitan US cities (although I don't know as much as you, of course). It sounds like you live in one, however I've never even been to one, and I'm sure I'd get a culture shock if I ever did. (I hear the amounts of people in the streets can be terrifying at first). However I should have said that I was talking more 'state-to-state-' wise, since this is the closest you can get to comparing nations of Europe. I know that there are still various differencies in accents, political opinions etc. from state to state, but you still share a common language, traditions and what not that binds you all together somehow, yes?

 

If I were to go to Germany, which is my southern neighbours, I'd better friggin' learn to speak German, and appriciate sausage. I have tried to communicate with Germans before, my skills are horrible. :D

 

And knowing is half the battle. Gooooooooooo Joe.

Who is Joe? And why is he more important than me?

 

I'm not defending the goverments response.

 

Only saying most of those people arn't forming hunting packs and shooting to kill.

 

Most are good people.

I know that most are good people, it's just so absurd to watch these gangs lurk in the streets and seeing these poor desperate people loot stuff in order to survive when the government is too slow to respond.

 

You mean "poor" and "rich". Say hi to capitalism. It's not always pretty, but it stands the test of time well.

Together with what Eldar wrote on this subject, I just want to say: Social Democracy; the distance between "poor" and "rich" is a lot shorter, the welfare state has its flaws (such as very high taxes), but there are far more good sides than bad in my biased opinion, however I don't know if such a government type could work in a nation as big as the US.

 

tease

Just how you like it

[Walsingham]

Lucius, the States really isn't the same. There's very little which binds them together in reality. The legal system has the biggest influence, followed by the media, but after that...

 

Go visit New York, followed by Juneau, followed by Miami. I'd say they were no less divergent than Amsterdam, Trondheim, and Marseilles. Language notwithstanding,a nd even that is changing as immigrant commmunities are increasingly sticking to tehir native tongues.

[Lucius]

Lucius, the States really isn't the same. There's very little which binds them together in reality. The legal system has the biggest influence, followed by the media, but after that...

And these are important tools to hold a nation together, they're not just a "little".

[Walsingham]

I'm not suggesting it isn't a functional nation. I'm just saying it is far less homogenised than we give them credit for. Us Euroweenies have a tendency to treat the States like a very large Belgium or something.