KotoR 3: Ideas and Suggestions

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

Allowing people to kill off NPCs in KOTOR would require reworking the design. KOTOR has always told the story through the NPCS, so they are required to be there to do their bit.

[Dark Moth]

I just don't want to be forced to take a person in my party.  I would have loved to kill G0T0 in K2.  Dark or Light, he was a proven enemy and such deserves death.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Kreia as well...

[metadigital]

Allowing people to kill off NPCs in KOTOR would require reworking the design. KOTOR has always told the story through the NPCS, so they are required to be there to do their bit.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think you mean KotOR:TSL, not KotOR; after all, in K1 the PC was able to kill off every one of the companions, except HK-47 and Canderous.

[Dark Moth]

You forgot Bastila and T3. You're right, but in K1 almost every character was essential to the story in some way and had a good reason to be with you on your ship. A lot of K2's characters had vague or mediocre reasons to be on your ship. The only person who had a damn good reason for sticking with you was Kreia, and that was only so she could train/use you.

[metadigital]

You can kill Bastila, too.

 

But I am (and you are) just being over-punctilious.

 

I would like more depth to a game I play, and this includes the companions: especially (as has been stated before) when they are compulsory.

 

But if they can't even deliver a completed game, I think it's pure fantasy to expect a deep game. "

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

Only when the story allowed you to do so, which was when the characters were no longer needed for storytelling duties.

[Gabrielle]

I would like to have used Detroy Droid on G0T0 and Kill on Disciple.

[Plano Skywalker]

though it is not my own style, I like the idea of DSers being able to torture their party members (as opposed to killing them)....then, the tortured party member could either become a sycophant or leave the party....basically, it would be the DS way of doing party management....LSers would have more pleasant ways of releasing party members.

 

of course, this would have to be "outer circle" party members who don't have essential, main story clues to offer.

 

GOT0 was an "inner circle" character in K2 though his backstory and persona was very underdeveloped.

[vaxen83]

Revitalise was a vastly underutilised force power. Apart from party members being killed off, Revitalise could have been used to bring them back to consciousness. NWN had this in Hordes of the Underdark where the PC could resurrect mercenaries like Daelan Redtiger, Linu Linora and a few others. Not as in virtually using it as a force power, but perhaps like being given a dialogue option to do so. (Like using Battle Meditation to rally either Vaklu's troops or Talia's royalists) So, certain NPCs like the dead Twilek in the 3rd pylon chamber on Nar Shaddaa could have had dialogue lines as another option.

Edited October 9, 2005 by vaxen83

[Bulgarian Jedi]

In my opinion that power was pointless and quite useless. Why don't they change it with a new all-party buff that will make characters more hard to kill instead of resurecting them?

[metadigital]

Only when the story allowed you to do so, which was when the characters were no longer needed for storytelling duties.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It didn't seem to bother Bethesda when they made Morrowind.

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

It didn't seem to bother Bethesda when they made Morrowind.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

What does that have to do with anything ? I already said that it would require a change in design and using the same method as Morrowind would be a change of design.

 

If KOTOR continues to use the characters are storytelling vehicles then they will be protected until they are no longer required (like they were in KOTOR).

[Lord Vegeta]

From Super Shadow and George Lucas himself

 

http://www.supershadow.com/starwars/lucas/

 

George Lucas: Josh, I really enjoyed reading your comments and questions. You seem like a nice person. It is nice to know that Star Wars has given you so much pleasure in life. This makes me feel good. You have plenty of questions so let

[Musopticon?]

Baley? Is this yours? Why do you let your alt-nicks run rampart?

[Bastilla_Skywalker]

From Super Shadow and George Lucas himself

 

http://www.supershadow.com/starwars/lucas/

 

George Lucas: Josh, I really enjoyed reading your comments and questions. You seem like a nice person. It is nice to know that Star Wars has given you so much pleasure in life. This makes me feel good. You have plenty of questions so let

Edited October 9, 2005 by Bastilla_Skywalker

[metadigital]

It didn't seem to bother Bethesda when they made Morrowind.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

What does that have to do with anything ? I already said that it would require a change in design and using the same method as Morrowind would be a change of design.

 

If KOTOR continues to use the characters are storytelling vehicles then they will be protected until they are no longer required (like they were in KOTOR).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

What it has to do "with anything", specifically the ability of the PC to kill any NPC, is that Bethesda used characters to tell the story (amongst other devices), just as every RPG does, so the fact that one game allows the PC to retard the story by killing off critical players shows that there is no reason it cannot be done.

 

Someone didn't get up on the right side of the bed this morning ...

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

What it has to do "with anything", specifically the ability of the PC to kill any NPC, is that Bethesda used characters to tell the story (amongst other devices), just as every RPG does, so the fact that one game allows the PC to retard the story by killing off critical players shows that there is no reason it cannot be done.

 

Someone didn't get up on the right side of the bed this morning ...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Not in the same way KOTOR does. Without Bastila or Kreia respectively you wouldnt even have a story in KOTOR and KOTORII. That is the difference and thats why it would require a change in the design. I never said It couldnt be done. I just said that it would require a different design which it would.

 

In fact outside of some JRPGS I dont know of any game that relies on the characters to tell the story as much as the KOTOR series.

Edited October 9, 2005 by ShadowPaladin V1.0

[metadigital]

One last reply before I'm off to watch Seredipity.

What it has to do "with anything", specifically the ability of the PC to kill any NPC, is that Bethesda used characters to tell the story (amongst other devices), just as every RPG does, so the fact that one game allows the PC to retard the story by killing off critical players shows that there is no reason it cannot be done.

 

Someone didn't get up on the right side of the bed this morning ...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Not in the same way KOTOR does. Without Bastila or Kreia respectively you wouldnt even have a story in KOTOR and KOTORII. That is the difference and thats why it would require a change in the design.

 

Since I said from the start it would require a redesign if you wanted to kill off characters at will, your simply stating the obvious since Morrowind dosnt use characters in the same way as KOTOR.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

1. If I'm "stating the obvious", then why are you arguing? Doesn't that mean you are wrong?

2. You seem to have an incomplete recollection of Morrowind. If the PC killed a critical character, then you were warned that the game was incompletable. That seems like a perfectly reasonable way to manage it in any other game, even a sequel to K2. It soon gets old killing NPCs for the fun of it, when you have to re-start the game to finish it afterwards ...

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

1. If I'm "stating the obvious", then why are you arguing? Doesn't that mean you are wrong?

2. You seem to have an incomplete recollection of Morrowind. If the PC killed a critical character, then you were warned that the game was incompletable. That seems like a perfectly reasonable way to manage it in any other game, even a sequel to K2. It soon gets old killing NPCs for the fun of it, when you have to re-start the game to finish it afterwards ...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Who's arguing ? I'm setting you straight since you felt the need to chime in about Morrowind. Which is already a different design to KOTOR and thus covered in my original post.

 

Fine, but thats still a change in the design from KOTOR which was what I said in the first place.

 

The point in case you missed it, was that as KOTOR is currently designed the characters are so integrel to the storytelling that you simply cant have them die until your done with them. KOTOR may have let you kill people off just before the StarForge but the story was as good as over and they were obsolete from a storytelling point anyway.

 

You may change the design, but you may end up losing what makes KOTOR what it is along the way.

[metadigital]

1. If I'm "stating the obvious", then why are you arguing? Doesn't that mean you are wrong?

2. You seem to have an incomplete recollection of Morrowind. If the PC killed a critical character, then you were warned that the game was incompletable. That seems like a perfectly reasonable way to manage it in any other game, even a sequel to K2. It soon gets old killing NPCs for the fun of it, when you have to re-start the game to finish it afterwards ...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Who's arguing ? I'm setting you straight since you felt the need to chime in about Morrowind. Which is already a different design to KOTOR and thus covered in my original post.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well, you aren't agreeing with me, and you are taking issue with the points I'm making, so that equals arguing, doesn't it?

Let's see, what does dictionary.com say?

argue:

1. To put forth reasons for or against; debate:

[metadigital]

From Super Shadow and George Lucas himself

 

http://www.supershadow.com/starwars/lucas/

 

George Lucas: Josh, I really enjoyed reading your comments and questions. You seem like a nice person. It is nice to know that Star Wars has given you so much pleasure in life. This makes me feel good. You have plenty of questions so let

[Surreptishus]

...And now for something completely different.

 

With a thread this size and with so many predecessors i feel a summary should be made every so often that relates the salient points. I feel this would make it much easier for me forum members to look through relevant info.

[metadigital]

...And now for something completely different.

 

With a thread this size and with so many predecessors i feel a summary should be made every so often that relates the salient points. I feel this would make it much easier for me forum members to look through relevant info.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

There are only about a dozen points that have been raised in all twelve multiplied by fifty pages of fourteen posts; the rest of the space is the usual gossip, arguing, banter and spam.

 

You probably already know all the points; they haven't changed since you were a windier character ...

[Surreptishus]

There are only about a dozen points that have been raised in all twelve multiplied by fifty pages of fourteen posts; the rest of the space is the usual gossip, arguing, banter and spam.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I know, I know. It was just my way of saying "wtf is this graveyard of a thread still doing here?"

 

You probably already know all the points; they haven't changed since you were a windier character ...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Wot you on about mate? ..."

don't look at my profile!

 

[metadigital]

There are only about a dozen points that have been raised in all twelve multiplied by fifty pages of fourteen posts; the rest of the space is the usual gossip, arguing, banter and spam.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I know, I know. It was just my way of saying "wtf is this graveyard of a thread still doing here?"

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Couldn't agree more, though I suspect that the main purpose of the thread is a sink to keep the fora uncluttered by every n00b and their scatty ideas: this acts as both an electric insect zapper (attracting the fans to the light and trapping them here) and an enormous barrier (reading the sixty-odd pages of this thread and then being referred back to the previous ones is enough to make most people wander off and play something less taxing, like chess).

You probably already know all the points; they haven't changed since you were a windier character ...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Wot you on about mate? ..."

don't look at my profile!

 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Didn't look at your profile ... but don't worry, your secret is safe with me. (And if you weren't around before, how can you make an authoritive statement about the expected demise of this thread ... Ahhhh, got you! And don't say anything about arguing in your spare time...)