Happy Birthday USA

[Nur Ab Sal]

Well in Europe there're no racist militias that train in the forests and want to exterminate all nonwhite citizens. Racism is bigger in the USA than in Europe.

 

I hope that Latinos will became dominant ethnic majority in the US. This would be

a fair punishment for all bad things you've made to them.

[EnderAndrew]

Lincoln, NE (50-60 miles from me) is supposed to be the international headquarters for the Neo-Nazi party. I've spent a lot of time there, but never once actually run into anyone expressing any anti-semitism. Talking online, I have run into atleast 20 or 30 Europeans expressing anti-semtic comments. I travel this country quite a bit, and I have yet to personally meet an anti-semite in the US.

 

They're here. I'm sure they are. People in the US seem to be racist more so towards Blacks living in poor, inner-city neighborhoods. Rich Blacks are part of a different caste. And people seem to have hatred for illegal Mexican immigrants, and assume all Mexicans are illegal immigrants. So I see racism in the US. I just haven't personally seen any anti-semitism.

[alanschu]

I shook my head a little when the Islamic community began protesting that the badguys in the latest season of 24 were [supposedly] Islamic.

 

Maybe I'm unique, but I don't watch a TV show and start hating/stereotyping muslims because there are some "bad" ones on television.

 

Especially considering in season 1 the badguys were very white as the Red Herring, and Eastern European at the end, in season 2 they had Muslims (though no one seemed to care then) as the red herring, only to learn about a more nefarious plot by a third party. Meh...people get too worked up about small things IMO.

 

But maybe I'm just an arrogant/ignorant white man.

[EnderAndrew]

Well in Europe there're no racist militias that train in the forests and want to exterminate all nonwhite citizens. Racism is bigger in the USA than in Europe.

 

I hope that Latinos will became dominant ethnic majority in the US. This would be

fair punishment fo all bad things you've made to them.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Nazi members still remain in Europe, though they have to hide. On September 11th, they showed footage of Palestine, where children were dancing in the streets and saying "God loves us because he kills the Americans!"

 

It's a pretty distubing sentiment. Racism is everywhere.

[Nur Ab Sal]

... but it is biggest in the USA

 

And palestinians are damn right. You suport their enemies - you pay.

[EnderAndrew]

Most Jews are racist, the US Marines like to rape people, and racism is most predominant in the US.

 

But you're not racist, are you?

And palestinians are damn right. You suport their enemies - you pay.

First off, I would like to say I am offended by any honest sentiment that says innocent civilians deserve to die.

 

Secondly, the US actually gives relief money to Palestine. Bush has threatened to stop giving them money because they won't show us that they are spending said money on relief, and not say, supporting terrorism.

 

This isn't hard. Let's say Palestine has X dollars to spend already, and we give them Y dollars. Now they have Z dollars to spend. We're not asking them to show us where they are spending all of their money, just that they have spent as much money on relief as we are giving them for relief.

[alanschu]

Seems like the USA is quite the cesspool now doesn't it.

 

 

It troubles me because I have images of Indy saying these things.

[Nur Ab Sal]

No I have no reason to hate other people and most evil guys I 've met were white.

 

And I didn't say that racism is major ideology of the Americans. Only that it is bigger in the USA than in the other countries. Which is true.

 

As for marine brutality, this is well documented but believe in your sanctity.

[alanschu]

Oh noes, "most" of the "evil" people that "you've" met are "white." Therefore, most of the evil people must be American

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

And palestinians are damn right. You suport their enemies - you pay.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

That would be the only reason I would require to drop a very large bomb on them. I wouldnt enjoy it but I like peace and quiet.

 

But comments made by you show that your likely the biggest racist here right now.

 

I'd call my myself more of a religionist. Fanatics piss me off and I really dont care from where they happen to come from.

[EnderAndrew]

You supported the position of murderers and terrorists. That's when I leave the conversation.

[Nur Ab Sal]

Hmm since US goverment is murderous and leads world expansion that cost lives of thousands and you support it, I should've left this conversation long time ago

[alanschu]

Where are you from Nur?

 

 

But it's all the US fault of course

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

Yeah lets blame Henry Ford for everyone killed by an automobile what a bastard.

[SteveThaiBinh]

I'm glad to see this discussion is remaining primarily civil.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Famous last words.

[alanschu]

LOL!

 

 

Murphy's Law at the very least

[Nightblade]

Since then, terrorists kill Isreali civilians almost every single day, for 30 years and no one in the world seems to care due to anti-semitism.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Have you met any Israelis? The reason why a lot of people dislike them isn't because they're jewish, it's because they're so damned arrogant and full of themselves.

 

Why would the rest of the world care about this US protectorate? You give the little critters guns, and they run around sniping children, levelling villages with their tanks. Your proteges are just as dumb as the "terrorists" they're fighting. The only difference is that they're better equipped.

 

 

Oh.. happy b-day btw..

 

Give us liberty, or give us death.. terrorist-rebels!!

 

N.

[EnderAndrew]

Show me one news article where Isreali forces have intentionally shot a kid. They haven't. But daily Palestinean forces bomb women and children.

 

I understand military conflicts, but killing innocent civilians is never acceptable in any society or circumstance. Arrogance is no justification for murder.

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

Why would the rest of the world care about this US protectorate? You give the little critters guns, and they run around sniping children, levelling villages with their tanks. Your proteges are just as dumb as the "terrorists" they're fighting. The only difference is that they're better equipped.

 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Tends to happen when you give children weapons. What you really have to ask yourself is would they do it if they were not constantly trying to create a buffer zone between themselves and the people trying to blow them up. In the answer to that question is no, then they are not the source of the problem.

[213374U]

Either that or we weren't motivated my money, but perhaps by conscious.  It is possible.

 

Either that, or we weren't looking for direct profit, but indirect profit if you insist on seeing a monetary motivator.  War causes people to have faith in an economy, and generally leads to production and new jobs.

No power has ever embarked in a war contrary to their interests. If the US were the first to do so, the only logical conclusion is that the leaders that were responsible are idiots. I do not think that is the case, though.

 

All that bs about democracy and the WMDs is just a coverup for something much simpler. A power that is protecting their interests (though perhaps not in a short term) by means of force. It's been that way since the dawn of time, and I don't see the trend changing. Force is the ultimate authority, and the ultimate constant in human affairs.

 

Was it right? Was it wrong? Was it moral? Was it legal?

I don't know, and quite frankly, I don't care. Those notions are relative and will change anyway. One must know to choose who their allies are, or suffer the consequences. Saddam's regime was not supported by his people at large and he lacked allies to ensure his control over his huge oil reserves. On top of that he mocked and denied international laws and authorities, but was quick to hide behind them when it was convenient. The world needs oil. It was just a matter of time before somebody went in and smacked him.

 

You don't like it? Too bad. I'd rather have a polar world than one without a clear hegemony. And I'd certainly have the US on top rather than China or the USSR.

 

Is that a selfish attitude, with taints of fascism? Perhaps. But I don't really care, because unlike most westerners these days, I don't have a guilt complex for living in a rich society while most of the world is poor. Nobody gave us for free what we have today. We have paid for every single thing we have with blood and sweat.

 

 

Hmm since US goverment is murderous and leads world expansion that cost lives of thousands and you support it, I should've left this conversation long time ago

Despite all your bitterness, your historical illiteracy, your bigoted attitude, and your denial of reality, the bottom line is, the US win,

 

YU0 LOSE!

 

[SteveThaiBinh]

Show me one news article where Isreali forces have intentionally shot a kid.  They haven't.  But daily Palestinean forces bomb women and children.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Caoimhe Butterly was an Irish peace protestor who was shielding a group of Palestinian children when she was shot by Israeli troops. As she has long, bright red hair, it's unlikely the soldiers mistook her for a Hamas bomber. Were they intentionally shooting at her or at the children? I don't think they were ever brought to trial, so I guess we'll never know.

[Walsingham]

Well, this thread went to hell pretty conclusively.

 

I think Ender deserves a bloody medal for keeping his cool. I for one don't approve of blatant flaming, particularly where we are talking about real issues, not cars or cheese or anything.

 

I'm also disturbed by Nur's use of Islamist doctrine by claiming that democracy is alien to Islam. Democracy is nothing more nor less than the belief that individuals should have the right to choose the laws by which they are governed. It is an inalienable concomitant of human rights, and human dignity. Islam, and educated muslims, last time I checked have no problem with either of these things. Only the violent and the ignorant believe the semi-fascist credo of rule by clerical 'wisdom'.

 

You all know my feelings on Iraq*.

 

To keep this post short I'll sum up my views on Israel and the US by saying:

- Judaism has a fascinating ethic of scholarly learning, and questioning of authority. Whose thinkers have benefitted all mankind. The cooking's not bad either.

- The creation of the state of Israel was mistake. One that Great Britain deserves greater blame for than the US. A better solution would have been universal tolerance of judaism worldwide, and acceptance of jews into all nations.

- Israel was itself created by applying terrorist pressure on Britain. So no high-horses, please.

- The US is constrained by the importance of the Jewish and Fundamentalist Christian lobbies. That comes with being a democracy.

- Israel is constrained by having a proportional representation system that means the mainstream HAS to pander to extremists.

- Nevertheless elements in both the US and Israel are interested in peace.

- Palestinian interests would be better served by peaceful demonstrations than by violence. Only by using completely peaceful means can the one-sided nature of the occupation, and the parallels with human rights struggles in America and South Africa, be made clear to the public in the US and Israel. Every bomb that kills Israeli civilians prolongs - not shortens - the conflict.

 

 

 

 

* Steve, that's a pretty bizarre claim that WW2 veterans didn't support it. I can believe some didn't. But I know for a fact that was hardly a consensus.)

[Lucius]

Last time I checked, we did bail Europe out in two world wars.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

In WW2, yes, but you didn't save the world from some big nasty evil in WW1, Germany and Austro-Hungary wasn't the bad guys, noone where. In fact you only joined in when it was almost over and both sides had bled themselves to a stalemate in the trenches. Please don't try to take sole credit for this, instead I recommend you read up on it, it's quite an interesting albeit disturbing part of our history that is way too often overshadowed by the war that followed.

 

Note, my country was neutral, but I'm biased towards Germany. (they had spiky helmets)

[SteveThaiBinh]

* Steve, that's a pretty bizarre claim that WW2 veterans didn't support it. I can believe some didn't. But I know for a fact that was hardly a consensus.)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well, those I've spoken to (not many, I'll grant you) opposed it. If you know some who supported it, then I guess we can't be sure where the majority is. I did say I thought it was most. You also have to remember that whereas veterans who opposed the war may have spoken out before the invasion began, this group more than any other is going to keep silent once British troops are in the line of fire.

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

Well, those I've spoken to (not many, I'll grant you) opposed it.  If you know some who supported it, then I guess we can't be sure where the majority is.  I did say I thought it was most.  You also have to remember that whereas veterans who opposed the war may have spoken out before the invasion began, this group more than any other is going to keep silent once British troops are in the line of fire.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Even if you are against a war you still support the troops once it starts.