Hildegard Posted July 13, 2005 Posted July 13, 2005 On the other hand, wouldn't it be even worse if people were fed one interpretation of history and accepted it as objective fact? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Good point Steve, it would be much worse, because then one inerpreter or interpreters would hold monopol on the decision what is seen as good or bad, knowing the history of the human nature one doesn't have to be a philosopher to see that that would eventually lead to corruption and abuse by certain groups. Objectivism is not born from single interpretations but from various ones, from dialogue, discussions and arguments. Single history inerpretations would have to be avoided by all means as it would be misused by avaricious people and groups, remember: Omnium vitiorum fundamentum avaritia est.
julianw Posted July 13, 2005 Posted July 13, 2005 It's not patently clear to everyone involved. The Japanese that I know who support these textbooks aren't disputing the facts, they're disputing the importance and interpretation of those facts. Revising history is not the same as falsifying history - it's finding a new interpretation based as much on the facts as the old one. I will not point my finger to those textbook writers as if they are trying to revise history. Even they must know that the truth is known everywhere, and Japan's inhumane war crimes cannot be disputed. But I will say that by omitting many of the facts of history, the textbook writers are insulting millions of victims in China, Southeast Asia, and amongst British and American POWs, not to mention those of them who are still alive. Japanese army conquered Nanking against heavy Chinese resistance and went onto a rampage of murdering and raping to release their anger. After three days of Armageddon, 300,000 deaths of civilians and POWs are totaled. Same thing happened in Tianjin, except the death total is 100,000. The fact is that Japan has committed the worst war crimes in modern history. Their POWs' death rate is 46% comparing to 7% in Germany. And 100 Malaysians are killed for every murdered Japanese soldier. Of course, it would be wrong for me, who did not live to receive the offense, to hold any grudge against today's Japanese, who didn't commit any of those crimes. But still, they ought to have some sincerity to atone for their fathers' mistakes.
Walsingham Posted July 13, 2005 Posted July 13, 2005 I I can interject on your lofty superhuman debate. Most of us live by the principle of reasonable doubt. As in, beyond all reasonable doubt. Was Monty wrong to launch Operation Market Garden - good question. Debatable. Did the Japanese army kill 300,000 civilians in the nanking area? Not really debateable. They died. The Jap army almost certainly had something to do with it. Was such an act contrary to the established conventions of war at that time? Yes, and again not really debateable. On the other hand, the business with the PoWs is debateable. Many people have pointed to cultural diffs, which don't excuse IMO someone seeing aliving human being in front of them and stabbing them with a bayonet and seeing them writhing in agony. BUT things like the Bataan Death March (not a Goth dance move, in case you were wondering) can also be put down to lack of logistic planning for that many prisoners because the Japanese foolishly assumed the American general wouldn't abandon his entire field army in an untenable position. They never ever expected that many prisoners, and hence could not feed or look after hem. Their orders were to move them hundreds of miles, and so they obeyed those orders. Malice of poor flexibility, perhaps. I'm not saying I agree with the above. But it's not completely bonkers. Not beyond reasonable doubt. Ths thread should have died off a long while ago, though. "It wasn't lies. It was just... bull****"." -Elwood Blues tarna's dead; processing... complete. Disappointed by Universe. RIP Hades/Sand/etc. Here's hoping your next alt has a harp.
Calax Posted July 13, 2005 Posted July 13, 2005 This thread is a zombie eating the hearts and minds of everybody. Victor of the 5 year fan fic competition! Kevin Butler will awesome your face off.
Walsingham Posted July 13, 2005 Posted July 13, 2005 This thread is a zombie eating the hearts and minds of everybody. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Braaaaainzzzz "It wasn't lies. It was just... bull****"." -Elwood Blues tarna's dead; processing... complete. Disappointed by Universe. RIP Hades/Sand/etc. Here's hoping your next alt has a harp.
Darth Flatus Posted July 13, 2005 Posted July 13, 2005 Furthermore, I suspect you added this sentence mostly for the thrill of posting the 'ae' character. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Yes, meta sure does love his ligatural digraphs... "
metadigital Posted July 13, 2005 Posted July 13, 2005 Furthermore, I suspect you added this sentence mostly for the thrill of posting the 'ae' character. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Yes, meta sure does love his diphthongs. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Actually, it's a special type of digraph called a ligature. And I can neither confirm nor deny any pleasure associated with the addition of aforementioned ligatures to said posts. (A diphthong is a sound that merges one vowel into another, like coin or loud.) PS I can confirm that my personal happiness is jeopardised by the absence of punctiliousness. OBSCVRVM PER OBSCVRIVS ET IGNOTVM PER IGNOTIVS OPVS ARTIFICEM PROBAT
Darth Flatus Posted July 13, 2005 Posted July 13, 2005 Meta are you crazy? I can't believe you'd stoop so low as to doctor a quote to get your point across. You have sullied my name this day. I DEMAND SATISFACTION!!!!
metadigital Posted July 13, 2005 Posted July 13, 2005 Small, Medium or Large? OBSCVRVM PER OBSCVRIVS ET IGNOTVM PER IGNOTIVS OPVS ARTIFICEM PROBAT
metadigital Posted July 14, 2005 Posted July 14, 2005 About a quarter after one. It's surreal, how should I know. OBSCVRVM PER OBSCVRIVS ET IGNOTVM PER IGNOTIVS OPVS ARTIFICEM PROBAT
Cantousent Posted July 14, 2005 Posted July 14, 2005 The last great hope of mankind. May I not live to see the last day of the United States. I beg no forgiveness for my love of country. Happy birthday, indeed. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> You don't want live to see their last day Eldar, but I'll not drop any tear for them <{POST_SNAPBACK}> The United States is truly exceptional, but we live in an age that cannot accept greatness. We live in an age where nothing receives more contempt than success. Nothing earns more respect than failure; where soldiers fighting against terrorists are labeled terrorists themselves; and where folks who intentionally target civilians carry such lofty titles as "freedom fighters" and "patriots." You have lived your whole life under the so-called "oppression" of the United States, obviously buying into the whole idea that we've done everything wrong here in America. Fine. It's not only a free country here, but probably there as well. If I point out that the United States was, for decades, the guarantor of freedom, then I Fionavar's Holliday Wishes to all members of our online community: Happy Holidays Join the revelry at the Obsidian Plays channel:Obsidian Plays Remembering tarna, Phosphor, Metadigital, and Visceris. Drink mead heartily in the halls of Valhalla, my friends!
Calax Posted July 14, 2005 Posted July 14, 2005 I SUMMON YOU OH GREAT GOD OF SPAM KILLING, I SUMMON YOU OH FINOVAR PLEASE COME AND KILL THIS THREAD! Victor of the 5 year fan fic competition! Kevin Butler will awesome your face off.
EnderAndrew Posted July 14, 2005 Author Posted July 14, 2005 I SUMMON YOU OH GREAT GOD OF SPAM KILLING, I SUMMON YOU OH FINOVAR PLEASE COME AND KILL THIS THREAD! <{POST_SNAPBACK}> The above post was clearly on topic and you call for the thread to be closed?
Fionavar Posted July 14, 2005 Posted July 14, 2005 Once invoked ... well let's say SPAM has encouraged graduation to the AotS ... a great honour indeed ... FLoSD.ObE The universe is change; your life is what our thoughts make it - Marcus Aurelius (161)
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