Would Mace Windu Have beaten Sidious?

[GhostofAnakin]

I said on the ropes because something about that ferocious, focused look on Jackson's face.

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He has that look even when he's sitting in the Jedi Council room discussing whether they should order pizza or Chinese.

[ncr]

Blame George Lucas for his "vision".

You mean like he replaced Anakin's ghost in ROTJ with Hayden Christensen? <_<

[GhostofAnakin]

Blame George Lucas for his "vision".

You mean like he replaced Anakin's ghost in ROTJ with Hayden Christensen? <_<

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OMG GREEDO SHOT FIRST!!!

[ncr]

:">

[LadyDisdain]

I said on the ropes because something about that ferocious, focused look on Jackson's face.

 

He has that look even when he's sitting in the Jedi Council room discussing whether they should order pizza or Chinese.

 

 

I know. 's why I'm constitutionally incapable of thinking His Imperial Badness could beat him. It's a flaw. :D

[Calax]

I'm surprised that the Imperial Royal Guards didn't hear the commotion and come in and at least TRY to defend Palpitine. I just found Anaking to be a very screwed up little child

[Atreides]

So here's a question.  When does Anakin actually enter the scene?  (Or maybe in the case of the novelization: when does his approach enter Palpatine's awareness?)

 

That seems key to me because actors don't waste their craft on empty houses.  It's not the nature of the beast, even if the intended purpose of the acting is manipulation of another person.  It's wasted effort, and foolish, and Palpatine certainly wasn't a fool.  If Palpatine was acting weak for Anakin's benefit, there's no point in him doing it until his chosen pawn is in the room, and I seem to recall that His Imperial Badness looked to be on the ropes before Anakin even arrived.  That's one hell of a risky warm-up to the main event, if you ask me.

 

Anybody help me out with this?

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In the movie, here is the sequence of events:

 

-Palpatine kills 2 deadbeat Jedi and fights with Windu

-They fight near smashed window

-Windu facekicks Palpatine who drops his saber out of the window

-Palpatine scuttles to the edge of the window because he's disarmed

-ANAKIN PHYSICALLY ENTERS ROOM

-Palpatine + Windu speech

-Palpatine zaps Windu

-etc

 

Anakin is "called" by Palpatine before the confrontation. Not sure on the timing of when he arrives outside the building.

[jaguars4ever]

but if Mace cut Sids lightsaber in half, then how does he use it against Yoda in the Senate Chamber?

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In both book and film Palps is relieved of his saber in the duel against mace but lo and behold he fights Yoda with a saber!! How can this be......? Hmmm this is most vexing.....

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maybe he had an extra one

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Well...just how many lightsabers did you folks have in KotOR? ^_^

[alanschu]

Anakin is in the building while they are still fighting. He gets disarmed and looks "helpless" the instant Anakin enters the room. For all Anakin knows, there was just Mace bullying his mentor/friend.

 

While I voted yes to Mace being able to win, I do think that Mace's "decisive" victory was a calculated risk by Sidious.

 

 

And since everyone is demanding "proof," what proof is there that he ISN'T faking it? Simply being "beaten" is not proof, since both outcomes equally support either side.

 

At no point in the novelization do I see "Palpatine is clearly NOT faking it...this fight against Windu is the real deal and he's fighting for his life, and if he doesn't give it his all then he's going to get owned!"

 

Furthermore, I DO see in the novelization that Mace cries out for help stating that Palpatine is "too strong" for him.

 

 

But to try and make sure no one can conveniently ignore my question, I'll put it again at the end...

 

What proof is there that Palpatine is NOT faking the fight?

[jodo kast 5]

but if Mace cut Sids lightsaber in half, then how does he use it against Yoda in the Senate Chamber?

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In both book and film Palps is relieved of his saber in the duel against mace but lo and behold he fights Yoda with a saber!! How can this be......? Hmmm this is most vexing.....

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maybe he had an extra one

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Well...just how many lightsabers did you folks have in KotOR? ^_^

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a lot, but i mostly used guns and a mod for boba fett armor so i pretty much used that stuff through the whole game.

[Arkendale]

In the novelisation, Anakin arrived and saw the third jedi who came with Windu killed. (Or was it the second?) And then he just watched as Mace and Palpatine fought. I'm not sure if Palpatine knew that Anakin was there or not, but Mace did halfway during the fight, when he was using that 'shatterpoints' technique to find out Palpatine's weakness.

[EnderAndrew]

I'm sure Palp could sense him.

[alanschu]

There's no proof that he couldn't sense him

[Darth Flatus]

well i think Palps expected anakin to be there to witness the events one way or another.

[alanschu]

It would be the best way to turn him.

 

 

For Anakin to come in and see that Palpatine had annihilated everyone would probably look worse for him.

 

Playing the helpless old man that needs Anakin to help him....and the fact that he is put in that helpless situation because the "Jedi are plotting to overthrow him."

 

If Anakin saw him as a badass that could take care of himself....it'd likely cast his mentor in a different way.

[EnderAndrew]

In A New Hope, we see Vader's fighter get hit by Han Solo right before Luke destroys the Death Star. After the Death Star is destroyed, we only see a few surviving fighters in the sky (two X-Wings, and a Y-Wing) and the Falcon.

 

There is no proof Vader's fighter survived the explosion. Furthermore, TiE-Fighters didn't have hyperspace engines, as there was no place to put them. They said in A New Hope, they are short ranger fighters. Vader wouldn't have been able to fly far.

 

Since there is no proof that Vader survived, we must infer that the Vader we know in Episodes 5 and 6 was a clone.

[Darth Flatus]

Vader's wasnt a regular tie fighter.

[alanschu]

Hahahaha.

 

Although we do see him survive the explosion. There's a quick shot right before the scene of them landing and celebrating in the hanger of Vader recovering his spin and flying away.

[Atreides]

What proof is there that Palpatine is NOT faking the fight?

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What proof is there that Palpatine IS faking the fight?

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

In A New Hope, we see Vader's fighter get hit by Han Solo right before Luke destroys the Death Star.  After the Death Star is destroyed, we only see a few surviving fighters in the sky (two X-Wings, and a Y-Wing) and the Falcon.

 

There is no proof Vader's fighter survived the explosion.  Furthermore, TiE-Fighters didn't have hyperspace engines, as there was no place to put them.  They said in A New Hope, they are short ranger fighters.  Vader wouldn't have been able to fly far.

 

Since there is no proof that Vader survived, we must infer that the Vader we know in Episodes 5 and 6 was a clone.

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Actually they did a what happened to Vader WEG scenerio for the original SW RPG.

 

The wings pop off leaving a sort of escape capsule (this was on the model version) and he floated off through space in a Jedi trance till someone got around to picking him up.

 

Even if you take the film evidence alone Vader goes spinning off into space rather than blowing up.

[alanschu]

What proof is there that Palpatine is NOT faking the fight?

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What proof is there that Palpatine IS faking the fight?

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Considering I asked my question for all those that were claiming for an answer to your question...I fail to see why you asked it.

 

 

Unless you were trying to be "funny" or something...we could play this game all night long.

 

 

As for your question. There is none. But don't go pulling a creationist trick of claiming lack of proof for my point is support for your point. Just as there's no actual, concrete proof for Palpatine faking the fight, there is zerio proof that he isn't faking the fight. It is actually better this way as it would be stupid it was stated in the book that 'Palpatine has truly met his match....had he not summoned all of his skill, he would have died...he clearly is not faking it in this fight' or something similar.

 

Having said that, there are numerous other posts that show Mace asking Anakin for help in the Novelization, stating clearly that Palpatine is "too strong." Nur Ab Sal and his supporters have completely ignored this point, despite claiming the novelization supports their point in some way shape or form.

 

 

 

So I answered your question, now answer mine.

 

What proof is there that Palpatine is not faking the fight?

[alanschu]

In A New Hope, we see Vader's fighter get hit by Han Solo right before Luke destroys the Death Star.  After the Death Star is destroyed, we only see a few surviving fighters in the sky (two X-Wings, and a Y-Wing) and the Falcon.

 

There is no proof Vader's fighter survived the explosion.  Furthermore, TiE-Fighters didn't have hyperspace engines, as there was no place to put them.  They said in A New Hope, they are short ranger fighters.  Vader wouldn't have been able to fly far.

 

Since there is no proof that Vader survived, we must infer that the Vader we know in Episodes 5 and 6 was a clone.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Actually they did a what happened to Vader WEG scenerio for the original SW RPG.

 

The wings pop off leaving a sort of escape capsule (this was on the model version) and he floated off through space in a Jedi trance till someone got around to picking him up.

 

Even if you take the film evidence alone Vader goes spinning off into space rather than blowing up.

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I prefer to just use the X-Wing/TIE Fighter video games that indicate that the TIE Advanced (which is what Vader was flying...well, a prototype of it) has a hyperdrive on it :D

[jaguars4ever]

Vader's wasnt a regular tie fighter.

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Indeed - if there's one thing all those years of X-Wing/Tie-Fighter/X-Wing vs Tie Fighter/X-Wing:Alliance taught us, is that Vader had a Tie Advanced.

[alanschu]

More specifically, the TIE Advanced x1 prototype :D

[Nartwak]

It is actually better this way as it would be stupid it was stated in the book that 'Palpatine has truly met his match....had he not summoned all of his skill, he would have died...he clearly is not faking it in this fight' or something similar.

That's actually very similar to the argument that proved the theory of plate tectonics.

 

Seriously, I think the rational portion of the thread ended after 213374U's post.