jodo kast 5 Posted June 28, 2005 Author Posted June 28, 2005 So... 213374U wins the thread? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> hell no, where the hell did you get that idea, he can't backup his speculations so he has no viable proof that Palps wasn't fighting his best, so he loses.
Atreides Posted June 28, 2005 Posted June 28, 2005 Looks like Windu's winning in the poll. Windu's the frickin uber guardian mofo while Yoda's more force adept. They specialise in different things, which doesn't mean that they're weak - it means they may surpass each other in different things. Same thing with Palpatine - he strikes me more as a Sith Lord/force user than a Maurauder. That's why it's more than conceivable that he'd lose to Windu in a saber fight alone. Let's start with what we know - Palpatine called out to Anakin. He's either planning things or knows he needs backup. Probably both. If Palpatine planned to throw the fight, he "lost" his saber before Anakin was anywhere close and does a very good job scuttling to the window edge and freaking out for Mace's benefit before Anakin's even in the room. Anakin enters, and he zaps Windu because he doesn't want to die (Sith ending there and all that) then "plays weak" - lightning reflecting and removing his mask etc. Windu's very close with the saber at that point and is struggling but not about to give up. If anything, he seems to be gaining ground. If Palpatine was playing things, he's cutting things too close to the edge for his own comfort - note his "No. No. NEVER!!" (love that) scene when confronted with the end of the Sith - and he's chucking most of his cards out of the window and seems pretty desperate even before Anakin is there for the benefit of the show. Spreading beauty with my katana.
ncr Posted June 28, 2005 Posted June 28, 2005 When you think about it, the game reflects this too... My Jedi Weaponsmaster (like Mace Windu was) has no problem wiping the floor with Kreia (Sith Lord class). Of course, Kreia is insanely easy so maybe it's not all that significant after all.
jodo kast 5 Posted June 28, 2005 Author Posted June 28, 2005 Looks like Windu's winning in the poll. Windu's the frickin uber guardian mofo while Yoda's more force adept. They specialise in different things, which doesn't mean that they're weak - it means they may surpass each other in different things. Same thing with Palpatine - he strikes me more as a Sith Lord/force user than a Maurauder. That's why it's more than conceivable that he'd lose to Windu in a saber fight alone. Let's start with what we know - Palpatine called out to Anakin. He's either planning things or knows he needs backup. Probably both. If Palpatine planned to throw the fight, he "lost" his saber before Anakin was anywhere close and does a very good job scuttling to the window edge and freaking out for Mace's benefit before Anakin's even in the room. Anakin enters, and he zaps Windu because he doesn't want to die (Sith ending there and all that) then "plays weak" - lightning reflecting and removing his mask etc. Windu's very close with the saber at that point and is struggling but not about to give up. If anything, he seems to be gaining ground. If Palpatine was playing things, he's cutting things too close to the edge for his own comfort - note his "No. No. NEVER!!" (love that) scene when confronted with the end of the Sith - and he's chucking most of his cards out of the window and seems pretty desperate even before Anakin is there for the benefit of the show. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> exactly, i remember reading somewhere that when Palps was younger he seldom trained with a lightsaber and more on force powers, such as the infamous force lightning, so he was fighting a losing battle to begin with, without good saber training he was commiting suicide challenging Windu because: 1.Windu invented his own form of lightsaber combat that is pretty useful. 2.The Jedi said he was a master swordsman, probably the most powerful of them all(Anakin would've been if he hadn't fallen to the darkside) 3.He is the original bad mother****er!
ncr Posted June 28, 2005 Posted June 28, 2005 He was good enough with a lightsaber to take out two (or three I forget), Jedi with like two moves... Come to think of it, that was just ridiculous.
jodo kast 5 Posted June 28, 2005 Author Posted June 28, 2005 He was good enough with a lightsaber to take out two (or three I forget), Jedi with like two moves... Come to think of it, that was just ridiculous. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> first of all: 1.He scared the livin' **** out of them and they were unprepared to take him down.
ncr Posted June 28, 2005 Posted June 28, 2005 They knew they'd be facing a Sith Lord. As you said, he is not particularly skilled with a lightsaber. The way he handled it looked really awkward to me. Maybe he used some stim packs ahead of time.
jodo kast 5 Posted June 28, 2005 Author Posted June 28, 2005 They knew they'd be facing a Sith Lord. As you said, he is not particularly skilled with a lightsaber. The way he handled it looked really awkward to me. Maybe he used some stim packs ahead of time. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> he probably went to Daytona Beach and bought some drugs while he was there
Atreides Posted June 28, 2005 Posted June 28, 2005 Palpatine sk00led those two because they looked stoned - slow/no reaction rather than Palpatine being superb or anything. Spreading beauty with my katana.
Kissamies Posted June 28, 2005 Posted June 28, 2005 I don't care if George Lucas himself came in here and said that Palpy lost on a purpose. That idea just sounds too silly for me. Forget your simplistic more powerful-less powerful jedi scale. Different people are good at different things. Mace's speciality happened to be fighting. His henchmen went down a bit too fast, though. I like to think that Palps clouded their minds with his sith aura, or something similar, but it didn't work on Mace. SODOFF Steam group.
Darth Flatus Posted June 28, 2005 Posted June 28, 2005 Scholastic published the paperback version for kiddies, it even had different authors than the hardback version
EnderAndrew Posted June 28, 2005 Posted June 28, 2005 Scholastic published the paperback version for kiddies, it even had different authors than the hardback version <{POST_SNAPBACK}> That must have been the version Nur Ab Sal read.
Nur Ab Sal Posted June 28, 2005 Posted June 28, 2005 I've read Matthew Stover's novelization. HERMOCRATES: Nur Ab Sal was one such king. He it was, say the wise men of Egypt, who first put men in the colossus, making many freaks of nature at times when the celestial spheres were well aligned. SOCRATES: This I doubt. We are hearing a child's tale.
EnderAndrew Posted June 28, 2005 Posted June 28, 2005 Sure you did. Novels have lots of words, and big concepts. They also have subtext. You are adamant that anything not out-right stated doesn't exist. Since the concepts of subtext\ and subjective interpretation are beyond your grasp, I highly doubt you've ever read and comprehended a novel. But maybe someday! Come on, say it! I think I can! I think I can!
Darth Flatus Posted June 28, 2005 Posted June 28, 2005 The film leaves it ambiguous - better that way IMO. I dont remember exactly how the book portrayed it but i remember the impression of palps being in overall control.
Nur Ab Sal Posted June 28, 2005 Posted June 28, 2005 Sure you did. Novels have lots of words, and big concepts. They also have subtext. You are adamant that anything not out-right stated doesn't exist. Since the concepts of subtext\ and subjective interpretation are beyond your grasp, I highly doubt you've ever read and comprehended a novel. But maybe someday! Come on, say it! I think I can! I think I can! <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Some things in novels and movies are left clear. This thing unfortunately is. The sad thing is to neglect subtext but also to make baseless speculations . HERMOCRATES: Nur Ab Sal was one such king. He it was, say the wise men of Egypt, who first put men in the colossus, making many freaks of nature at times when the celestial spheres were well aligned. SOCRATES: This I doubt. We are hearing a child's tale.
213374U Posted June 28, 2005 Posted June 28, 2005 hell no, where the hell did you get that idea, he can't backup his speculations so he has no viable proof that Palps wasn't fighting his best, so he loses. You obviously can't tell the difference between speculation and fact. The only thing in my post that resembles speculation is the part where I say that I don't think Sidious could have beaten Mace fair and square. But I already stated that it is nothing but my personal opinion and as such it holds no specific weight. The rest of the post are just observed facts, and applied logic. I dare you to try and find a flaw in it. BTW, Kissamies, your sig is awesome. What is that? - When he is best, he is a little worse than a man, and when he is worst, he is little better than a beast.
Arkendale Posted June 28, 2005 Posted June 28, 2005 The battle was going Sidious' way, until Mace went out to the window ledge. Sidious is scared of heights and that allowed Mace to cut his lightsaber in half. But then again, the book didn't say that Palpatine was scared. When Mace called for Anakin to help, though, Palpatine was in controll again. So, yes, I think Mace Windu would have killed Palpatine.
darthsidious666 Posted June 28, 2005 Posted June 28, 2005 We all seem to be forgetting the entire duel was staged by George Lucas, so what he says goes, if he decides that Palpatine was having an off day and Mace Windu legitimately beat him, or vice versa, then so be it. About Mace Windu being a great swordsman - That is also speculation, since we're judging by what we've seen in the movies, all I've seen so far is him defend from blaster bolts and cut a guy's head off(Omg, wow, he is teh r0xx0rz). As for the battle his battle against Palpatine - Just watch the movie again, the lightsaber fight between Windu and Palpatine is slow considered to the one between Yoda and Palpatine, reguardless of the reason, Palpatine was faking in the duel. Palpatine knew that he had to prevent himself from killing Windu at all costs, until the right time came. He purposfully used lightning, NOT to defend himself, but to make it seem like a struggle that he was loosing. To the person who will perhaps say this or any other posts are just speculation: OMG, I would have never known, considering that this entire subject is speculation.
213374U Posted June 28, 2005 Posted June 28, 2005 About Mace Windu being a great swordsman - That is also speculation, since we're judging by what we've seen in the movies, all I've seen so far is him defend from blaster bolts and cut a guy's head off(Omg, wow, he is teh r0xx0rz). Read the comics, read the novels, get an informed opinion, and come see me in the morning. ) As for the battle his battle against Palpatine - Just watch the movie again, the lightsaber fight between Windu and Palpatine is slow considered to the one between Yoda and Palpatine, reguardless of the reason, Palpatine was faking in the duel. No. That is because the duel between Mace and Palps is performed by real actors (and poor Ian isn't as agile as he used to be) while the fight between Yoda and the Emperor (emporer? ) is largely CGI. And no, you are right. Your post is not speculation. It's just plain wrong. - When he is best, he is a little worse than a man, and when he is worst, he is little better than a beast.
ShadowPaladin V1.0 Posted June 28, 2005 Posted June 28, 2005 No Mace was destined to fail much like Yoda was. I have to agree with Volourn. Bioware is pretty much dead now. Deals like this kills development studios. 478327[/snapback]
darthsidious666 Posted June 28, 2005 Posted June 28, 2005 Thank you for informing me that the duel between Mace and Palpatine was performed by real actors, I never would have known, honestly. I shouldn't have to read comics or novels to be able to form a conclusion, If George Lucas doesn't have the directing or writing skills to explain everything in the movie, then it is his problem and not the problem of the viewer. As for my post and argument being plain wrong, well I tried, I really did, oh well.
ncr Posted June 28, 2005 Posted June 28, 2005 I think Lucas intended Mace to win if Anakin had not intervened. This is better from a storytelling perspective. It puts much more weight on Anakin's turn to the Dark Side.
GhostofAnakin Posted June 28, 2005 Posted June 28, 2005 The film leaves it ambiguous - better that way IMO. I dont remember exactly how the book portrayed it but i remember the impression of palps being in overall control. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Ehem. I DID post the excerpt at your request, but apparently my effort went unnoticed. Judging from the people who still insist there's no evidence to suggest Palpatine was "faking", I guess they didn't read the excerpt from the novel either. I'd say it's pretty good proof when it changes Nurb's stance from outright refusal and saying anyone who thinks Palps was faking is wrong, to now saying it was a "stalemate" (his version of admitting he could be wrong). "Console exclusive is such a harsh word." - Darque"Console exclusive is two words Darque." - Nartwak (in response to Darque's observation)
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