Name That Tale The Bible Stole!

[WITHTEETH]

Julien

My perspective is evil is an illusion, it doesnt exist, it only exist in your minds. You think im evil because i don't believe what you beleive, thats a typical viewpoint of one belief to another. so im going to "hell". Its just an abstract thought.

 

We are not fundementally flawed.

 

What kind of programming do you think a person has when he lives in a perfect world (Adam and Eve, with everything given to him. without right and wrong a person can't learn a view of good and evil.

 

Also if you put yourself in anothers shoes, they typically justify what they do, many times that justification is bad, they might have a misunderstanding, or maybe you have the misunderstaning. Its all a point of view. your reality(how you intrepret the world) against his.

 

Maybe there is no evil but rather the consequences of the species developing adaptive strategies that tend to be accompanied by pain, suffereing, unhappiness, and conflicts of intrests, all part of evolving and growing up.

 

I can tell you have a different idea of good and eveil, i just wanted to show you another.

[EnderAndrew]

My freshmen year we had a class on archetypes in mythology around the world. We found the same stories were told in various cultures around the world that had no communication with each other.

 

These cultures didn't steal the stories from one another. Those stories touched upon universal human experiences and themes.

 

That's why they are archetypes.

[SteveThaiBinh]

These cultures didn't steal the stories from one another.  Those stories touched upon universal human experiences and themes.

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No!

 

The Mayans and the Egyptians both built pyramids because aliens told them to!

[11XHooah]

These cultures didn't steal the stories from one another.  Those stories touched upon universal human experiences and themes.

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No!

 

The Mayans and the Egyptians both built pyramids because aliens told them to!

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It's interesting that you brought this up, because I just saw a documentary on the pyramids on the history channel (Thank God for this channel, I love it ). Mail Call is the best. But I'm digressing just a bit. Back to the point, they were saying that we tried to rebuild the pyramids using modern machines, but the task proved to be impossible. As a result, many speculate that aliens indeed came down and assisted in the construction process. I think that we are just building them wrong.

[Musopticon?]

It's really amazing how I can't visit any forums anymore without atleast one thread that debates the bible:P

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Welcome to the real world. Have a happy stay.

 

 

Ahem, Rhomal I'd like to know where you got that info on St. Bridget. The Bridget I know, or Birgitta, was a very real person. Wife of a duke/jarl who has her own cloister. And which goddess are you talking about? I don't remember one named Bridget.

 

I believe in god. Still, I can't but just laugh at the satanizing of deitis, like Pan. But that was back then, like christianisment of Yule and Samhain. I find it lollifying to call it "disgusting" now.

[Cantousent]

If we want to look at the Bible as a literary achievement, I'd conclude it's a remarkably flawed, incoherent work, as a whole, allowing the candid reader to interpret pretty much whatever the hell he wants from it.

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At this one point, I disagree. The Bible is a transcendent literary work when you look at the parts. Different books of the Bible address different needs in the community at the time it was written. Some of the books are actually quite boring. However, critics still laud the book of Job as a classic work of literature. The parables of Christ still speak to people today, and not entirely due to religious fervor. As a Catholic, I hearken to the story of a Prodigal Son. As a human being, however, I love the story. It speaks to me on a personal level. After all, I

[Commissar]

As far as differences of interpretation, I agree.  I actually think you put it quite well. 

[metadigital]

...

Looking at Christianity as a historian, I can't help but marvel at the fact that the modern religion still takes its direction from points of doctrine laid down by guys three hundred, five hundred, a thousand, fifteen hundred years ago, guys who interpreted Scripture one way and declared it canon, very often to their own particular ends.  It's a sordid history, and I think that a modern, wholly objective observer - one who has never been exposed to Christianity, so a purely hypothetical being - looking over the Bible today would come to vastly different conclusions about the nature of the faith. 

...

If we want to look at the Bible as a literary achievement, I'd conclude it's a remarkably flawed, incoherent work, as a whole, allowing the candid reader to interpret pretty much whatever the hell he wants from it.

...

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I disagree with your analysis; you are making a very crude and superficial comparison of the Bible with historical events.

 

Just as a film made in 1945, like Casablanca or They Were Expendable, can tell us more about the society of the time than any textbook, so too the Bible can tell us about the myths of civilzation: the hopes, dreams and nightmares.

 

The Bible does that very eloquently, especially when now we are able to piece together what has been edited out and in ...

[Darque]

These cultures didn't steal the stories from one another.  Those stories touched upon universal human experiences and themes.

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No!

 

The Mayans and the Egyptians both built pyramids because aliens told them to!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

And here I thought it was because they both originated from a single culture in the atlantic that vanished when the iceage ended and the water levels rose worldwide.

[Darque]

I disagree with your analysis; you are making a very crude and superficial comparison of the Bible with historical events.

 

Just as a film made in 1945, like Casablanca or They Were Expendable, can tell us more about the society of the time than any textbook, so too the Bible can tell us about the myths of civilzation: the hopes, dreams and nightmares.

 

The Bible does that very eloquently, especially when now we are able to piece together what has been edited out and in ...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

And the fact that the Bible's stories are borrowed says what about the piece?

[SteveThaiBinh]

The Mayans and the Egyptians both built pyramids because aliens told them to! 

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And here I thought it was because they both originated from a single culture in the atlantic that vanished when the iceage ended and the water levels rose worldwide.

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More likely it's because any other way of putting stone blocks on top of one another falls over.

[Darque]

Tell that to the Romans

[Plano Skywalker]

My freshmen year we had a class on archetypes in mythology around the world.  We found the same stories were told in various cultures around the world that had no communication with each other.

 

These cultures didn't steal the stories from one another.  Those stories touched upon universal human experiences and themes.

 

That's why they are archetypes.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Excellent point. Who said that the ideas were stolen? Maybe some truths are just so universal and eternal in nature that they WILL BE DISCOVERED by man.

 

Joseph Campbell writes about how there are many Messiah myths throughout history. Does this mean Christianity steals the concept? Or could it mean that the concept is so irrefutable and transcendant that it is inevitable that the concept would have been widely known even before its culmination in the Passion?

 

All I am saying is that the idea that several cultures had the same idea does not in any way diminish the idea. And the burden of proof is on he who would make the assertion.

[Cantousent]

I disagree with your analysis; you are making a very crude and superficial comparison of the Bible with historical events.

 

Just as a film made in 1945, like Casablanca or They Were Expendable, can tell us more about the society of the time than any textbook, so too the Bible can tell us about the myths of civilzation: the hopes, dreams and nightmares.

 

The Bible does that very eloquently, especially when now we are able to piece together what has been edited out and in ...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

And the fact that the Bible's stories are borrowed says what about the piece?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Using this example, virtually all literture steals from somewhere. It's the same argument folks use to attack Shakespeare, Tolkien, Homer, and just about everyone else. That's why the word "stole" is such a loaded term. Of course the Bible had outside influences. That's not the point. The Bible managed to take those influences and create something vibrant and new. I always get a kick out of folks leveling the dread charge of "thief" against Greek classics, as if the stories and writings from the near east compare favorably. I've been keenly interested in other works that influenced Greek literature, but let's be honest, the Greek literture has endured extremely well over time.

 

The term "stole" is nothing better than an overt attack. So, if you wish, declare that the Bible is bogus because some of the theology found therein is adopted from an outside source. I think that's going to create a bunch of trivial arguments, but at least it's not nearly so stupid as claiming that a literary work has no value because of outside influences. Of course, maybe that's not what folks are implying. All's I know is that folks are willing to use arguments against the Bible that they are not willing to make against other works of literature.

 

You might not like the Bible as a work of literature, but it is a work of literature and it has endured extremely well.

[SteveThaiBinh]

My freshmen year we had a class on archetypes in mythology around the world.  We found the same stories were told in various cultures around the world that had no communication with each other.

 

These cultures didn't steal the stories from one another.  Those stories touched upon universal human experiences and themes.

 

That's why they are archetypes.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Viet Nam has a story about a king who was facing an evil enemy (the Chinese, I think), and not knowing what to do, he went to a lake in Hanoi to meditate. There, a magic turtle rose from the depths and presented him with magic sword, which he used to win great victories etc. etc. When finished, he went back and threw the sword into the lake, where it was caught by the magic turtle and taken down into the depths.

 

So the Lady of the Lake was really a turtle in disguise.

[Cantousent]

That's fascinating. Hey, are you Viet Namese, Steve?

[SteveThaiBinh]

No, just lived there. They have a version of Cinderella too, I think - possibly involving beans?

[metadigital]

These cultures didn't steal the stories from one another.  Those stories touched upon universal human experiences and themes.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

No!

 

The Mayans and the Egyptians both built pyramids because aliens told them to!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I have heard a very convincing explanation of the origin of civilzation. Wanna hear it?

 

Okay, all the continents had ancient civilzations that built some sort of pyramidal structures; from the Aztecs' Ziggarats and Babylonian Hanging Gardens to the Egyptian and Sudanese Pyramids.

 

Greek mythology talks about Atlantis, an advanced civilization that was swallowed by the ocean. Numerous attempts have been made to locate the exact geographic spot of the fabled Atlantis, but using Socarates (I think) it would appear that around the last ice age the continents had a dramatically different alignment. Specifically, the Antartic continent was much closer to the equator; a sudden speeding up of the Earth's rotation caused by a reversal in the geopolar alignment caused the continent to move at an accelerated pace to the south pole of the Earth (where it helped stabilize the rotation back to normal). Once there, the antartic ocean currents circumnavigated the sold polar land mass, and the lack of convection caused an accelerated freeze which resulted in the Antartic ice sheet and the last ice age.

 

Of course this took a few centuries to happen, and the ancestors of the ancient civilizations travelled to all other the continents and became the local wise people, capable of passing on some of the knowledge from this first civilzation, now buried under the antartic tundra.

 

There was quite a bit of supporting evidence for the most radical part of this explanation, namely the sudden shift of the antartic continent in centuries rather than millions of years.

 

One of the neat bits of supporting evidence involved the Sphinx. You see it's dimensions don't add up. When you look at the Sphinx from the end elevation, the pharoah's head is tiny in comparison to the body of the lion. What is puported to have happened is that the Sphinx was in fact an anotomically-correct lion, that was doctored later by a pharoah (can't remember his name off-hand, some dude who was trying to re-inforce the divine link with him as pharoah, by chiselling his very popular father's mug on the Sphinx).

 

Sorry I can't remember where I saw this, but I thought it was interesting enough to share. (Of course I have glossed over some of the bits that are a bit hazy now, like the destruction of Atlantis: I can't remember if it was a sea volcano or an earthquake or what.)

[metadigital]

My freshmen year we had a class on archetypes in mythology around the world.  We found the same stories were told in various cultures around the world that had no communication with each other.

 

These cultures didn't steal the stories from one another.  Those stories touched upon universal human experiences and themes.

 

That's why they are archetypes.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Excellent point. Who said that the ideas were stolen? Maybe some truths are just so universal and eternal in nature that they WILL BE DISCOVERED by man.

...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That ties into the Jungian concept of Objective Psyche:

...The objective psyche may be considered objective for two reasons: it is common to everyone; and it has a better sense of the self ideal than the ego or conscious self does, and thus directs the self, via archetypes, dreams, intuition, and making mistakes on purpose, to self-actualization.

[11XHooah]

According to Indiana Jones and The Fate of Atlantis, it is located in the Mediterranean Sea. :D

[metadigital]

According to Philip K. Diсk the German's in Man in the High Castle, after they won WW2, damned the pillars of Hercules, drained the Mediterranean and turned it into agricultural land.

[11XHooah]

My freshmen year we had a class on archetypes in mythology around the world.  We found the same stories were told in various cultures around the world that had no communication with each other.

 

These cultures didn't steal the stories from one another.  Those stories touched upon universal human experiences and themes.

 

That's why they are archetypes.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Excellent point. Who said that the ideas were stolen? Maybe some truths are just so universal and eternal in nature that they WILL BE DISCOVERED by man.

...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That ties into the Jungian concept of Objective Psyche:

...The objective psyche may be considered objective for two reasons: it is common to everyone; and it has a better sense of the self ideal than the ego or conscious self does, and thus directs the self, via archetypes, dreams, intuition, and making mistakes on purpose, to self-actualization.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Ah yes, self-actualization. That brings me back to psychology class. The memories. Just for the hell of it, I feel like posting Maslow's hierarchy of needs that lead to self-actualization. It's funny though, our teacher made us draw a trapezoid instead of a pyramid.

 

[SteveThaiBinh]

It's a nice story, and would make a very good setting for Project New Jersey.

 

As a serious theory? The Mayan and Egyptian pyramids are very different in construction, and unlikely to be the product of the same culture. And I think this advanced civilisation would have left some pottery, weapons or something that they traded with neighbours.

 

It's interesting, though. The idea that a Messiah will come to save us is common to many cultures, and very attractive. So is the idea that we're descended from a great and lost civilisation. The power of human dreams, eh?

[Cantousent]

I'd like to see a gritty game where the angels are good and beautiful but they carry a fiery sword and deal out vengence. How's that for some old time religion?

 

We could include some pyramids and maybe an oracle or two. Atlantis? I don't know about including Atlantis in this setting. Of course, the more I think about it, the easier it seems to do.

[metadigital]

It's a nice story, and would make a very good setting for Project New Jersey.

 

As a serious theory?  The Mayan and Egyptian pyramids are very different in construction, and unlikely to be the product of the same culture.  And I think this advanced civilisation would have left some pottery, weapons or something that they traded with neighbours.

 

It's interesting, though.  The idea that a Messiah will come to save us is common to many cultures, and very attractive.  So is the idea that we're descended from a great and lost civilisation.  The power of human dreams, eh?

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I noticed it was borrowed by the plot writers of the recent Alien versus Predator film (yes, I've seen it -- I was bored one day and just picked a film at random at the mutiplex. I like doing that. I saw Death and the Maiden that way ...).