I sense a disturbance in the Force...

[Centaur]

KOTOR2 was much more thought through than its predecessor, however I found the story a little blurred. I ve played this game 3 times and listened to all the cut dialogues (a pity they were not included in the game), but there s still something that bugs me. This time all the fuzz was about a "wound in the force" which the battle at Malachore created. The exile blow up/take under control the dead planet and saves the galaxie, blha-blha-blha happy end. However there s no proof that the mutant (the exile) isn t a part or maybe even the source of that "wound". So if the jedi masters were right (and nothing says they were mistaken) than everybody is doomed. Have a nice apocalypse

[metadigital]

KOTOR2 was much more thought through than its predecessor, however I found the story a little blurred. I ve played this game 3 times and listened to all the cut dialogues (a pity they were not included in the game), but there s still something that bugs me. This time all the fuzz was about a "wound in the force" which the battle at Malachore created. The exile blow up/take under control the dead planet and saves the galaxie, blha-blha-blha happy end. However there s no proof that the mutant (the exile) isn t a part or maybe even the source of that "wound". So if the jedi masters were right (and nothing says they were mistaken) than everybody is doomed. Have a nice apocalypse 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Or, it could have been a convenient climax plot mechanism to build the narrative around.

 

 

 

Kreia is the one true real Prophet.

[Los Wackos]

KOTOR2 was much more thought through than its predecessor, however I found the story a little blurred. I ve played this game 3 times and listened to all the cut dialogues (a pity they were not included in the game), but there s still something that bugs me. This time all the fuzz was about a "wound in the force" which the battle at Malachore created. The exile blow up/take under control the dead planet and saves the galaxie, blha-blha-blha happy end. However there s no proof that the mutant (the exile) isn t a part or maybe even the source of that "wound". So if the jedi masters were right (and nothing says they were mistaken) than everybody is doomed. Have a nice apocalypse 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Maybe the Exile is only supposed to bring death to all force users?..

[Centaur]

metadigital

 

That sweet old lady is supposed to be a manipulative witch and as I recall she wanted to have the Force dead. So how do we know the mutant isn t part of the problem? I still haven t figuered out why that peverted granma wanted to be killed by her talented student (a necrophilous fantasy?), but if some paranoic folks like me assume that it was some part of her twisted plan to commite some full-scale holocost of the force it could make sense...

 

Los Wackos

 

As all things are touched by the force that would mean caput to everything. Forget about the atomic bomb, remember the Miraluca colony? Well it could have happen to all the galaxie, thanks to the echo-thingy.

[Centaur]

I just hate when nobody listens to my nerdish posts! OK, I ll try to revive it the first and last time

[metadigital]

metadigital

 

That sweet old lady is supposed to be a manipulative witch and as I recall she wanted to have the Force dead. So how do we know the mutant isn t part of the problem? I still haven t figuered out why that peverted granma wanted to be killed by her talented student (a necrophilous fantasy?), but if some paranoic folks like me assume that it was some part of her twisted plan to commite some full-scale holocost of the force it could make sense...

 

Los Wackos

 

As all things are touched by the force that would mean caput to everything. Forget about the atomic bomb, remember the Miraluca colony? Well it could have happen to all the galaxie, thanks to the echo-thingy.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Death of the Force is not synonymous with death of all life. (Although this is hinted at in some parts of the monologues given by Atris and Traya.) I was very keen to determine this one way or the other, but after analysing their speeches line by line, I decided that they were so inconsistent it was a fruitless task.

 

Hence I propose that Kreia may have known something that we haven't yet cottoned onto. If there really is no free will, and the Force is predetermining all future events for all life in the universe, then the Force is nothing more or less than an autocrat, a tyrant. But, because said life believes in the illusory fredom of will, then life is being manipulated to some secret agenda. This means that the Force is malevolent (as no good Force would give the illusion of free will -- it would bring us right back to the Epicurean Paradox).

 

Ergo, the Force is a malevolent despotic force that needs to be combated to restore true fredom of choice and free will to the beings of the universe.

 

Join US! (w00t)

[Darth Abomination]

you all have way too much time on your hands, you need some pro help!

[metadigital]

you all have way too much time on your hands, you need some pro help!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You are just another sheep in the flock that end up in the larder of the Force Sensitives.

 

 

PS Socrates is attributed with saying: The unexamined life is not worth living. I wonder what he meant ...

[Sinbreaker]

Evil exists because of our free will.

 

 

If we had no free will, you would not be posting here. Denyin that is the stupidest thing ever. That would mean noobody would be responsible for their actions, and thus, all criminals should be freed from jail, since man lacks free will, and hence cannot be held responsible for what he does.

 

 

 

Man lives under the moral law that guides his soul, but he is free to disobey it, because of his free will. God will not force a soul to be good, it must arise from the inner most being of the soul to desire to be good.

 

 

 

 

Ultimately, modernity tries to blurr free will, because modernity does not want to live a moral life. That would mean being responsible for the sins and evil they do, and the moral exceses and indulgences. Repentance is something modernity cannot bear itself to do.

[WyvernNZ]

Maybe the Exile is really the one prophesised to bring balance to the Force??????

 

And Anikin/luke is like the Second Coming? "

[dufflover]

I just think Kreia is an old witch who made up stuff. As for the Masters, well, I just think their theories are wrong.

[Centaur]

metadigital

 

As I understood the "Force" is some creepy power wich seeks balance either by harmony (L/S) or by chaotic destruction (D/S). Thus our free will in the game is limited by the choice of sides.

But let s go back to our mutant. My point is that he/she might be some plague carrier, creating little Nihismth, who get to feed upon planets like the miracula one. And the exile isn t aware of that he/she is the eye of the tornado.

 

Sinbreaker

 

Good point, but evil is not an absolute category. A cannibal doesn t think that eating human flesh is wrong, a drogued terrorist killing civilians belives he s doing the right thing...The question is when are we manipulated by our own culture and tradition and when do we act on our own?

 

WyvernNZ

 

Cool! Let s start a cult! Send me all your money

 

 

dufflover

 

The part about Kreia is true, but why do you think the jedi are wrong? They are quite logical I think :cool:

[Jade]

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Ergo, the Force is a malevolent despotic force that needs to be combated to restore true fredom of choice and free will to the beings of the universe.

 

Join US! (w00t)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

The force is the world that has been pulled over your eyes to blind you from the truth.

 

Oh, no, wait. That's the Matrix.

 

[Sarjahurmaaja.]

"That would mean noobody would be responsible for their actions, and thus, all criminals should be freed from jail, since man lacks free will, and hence cannot be held responsible for what he does."

 

Natural disasters kill people. Although natural disasters are not sentient and as such can't be held responsible for killing people, it is common practice to try to prevent natural disasters from killing people.

[Centaur]

Furthermore, if the exile is female and has all those intense bonds...Can you imagine a ship full of people with PMS? :D

[Gabrielle]

But the exile is a female.

[nightcleaver]

The Exile was not the direct cause of the problem; I believe the way Kreia put it was that the Exile "taught" the Sith how to destroy the Force. He was part of the teaching of Malachor... that he could blind himself from pain, or fear, to the force... and thus, to his connections with life.

 

More or less.

 

BTW, Kreia says they are mistaken. During the whole game, it's claimed that their teachings are mistaken. Is that enough for, "something" to say that they're mistaken?

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

They became bound to it rather than freed from it (like the exile). In effect they trapped themselves. Neither Nihilus or Sion could exist without the force.

 

I expect when the cut Kreias connection she realised this and thats why she set about trying to destroy it.

[metadigital]

Evil exists because of our free will.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Not necessarily. "Evil" might be just as much a part of the universe as "Good". This is called dualism. It is one of the central tenets of Zoroastrian faith, which was one of the theological parents of Christianity. (See The Gāthās of Zoroastrianism.)

If we had no free will, you would not be posting here. Denyin that is the stupidest thing ever.  That would mean noobody  would be responsible for their actions, and thus, all criminals should be freed from jail, since man lacks free will, and hence cannot be held responsible for what he does.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

How do you figure that? I would say it is much more reasonable to keep them locked up. Who cares Why someone commits a crime, just prevent them from doing it. You argument is specious.

Man lives under the moral law that guides his soul, but he is free to disobey it, because of his free will.  God will not force a soul to be good, it must arise from the inner most being of the soul to desire to be good.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

And yet this all-powerful, all-knowing and all-good God will willingly, knowingly and contentedly leave some souls to eternal damnation? How does that make sense to you?

Ultimately, modernity tries to blurr free will, because modernity does not want to live a moral life.  That would mean being responsible for the sins and evil they do, and the moral exceses and indulgences.  Repentance is something modernity cannot bear itself to do.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Horsefeathers.

 

Morality is not an anathema to modernity. (The animal kingdom doesn't seem to be too moral to me. More amoral, I would say, and modern society is a modern construct of the social organisations of our evolutionary ancestor animals.)

 

And likewise, morality is not the sole domain of religion (which is the implication of your post). You should read more. Try Humanism, or more specifically Renaissance Humanism. It's called ETHICS, and can be derived from reason, rather than some seemingly arbitrary "word of God" dissemintated to a random person (man ).

[Arkendale]

 

*Head starts to spout thick, black smoke, then catches fire and explodes*

 

[metadigital]

You've taken your first [tentative and faltering] steps into a larger world ...

[jodo kast 5]

You've taken your first [tentative and faltering] steps into a larger world ... 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

really, gee i thought that you had just now

[RevanRedefined]

Society actually blames the actions of criminals ( Well, the really sick and twisted ones. ) On mental defects. So is our free will a sign of a minor retardation?

[metadigital]

Yes. intelligence is an evolutionairy cul-de-sac in the highway of survival. The armoured arthropods had it right. Brute force of numbers and a quick breeding cycle beats intelligence hands down. (A business analogy: cheap components bring the "bottom line" down and make for a more efficient and rapid manufacturing process. Quality is bogus.)

[metadigital]

As I understood the "Force" is some creepy power wich seeks balance either by harmony (L/S) or by chaotic destruction (D/S). Thus our free will in the game is limited by the choice of sides.

But let s go back to our mutant. My point is that he/she might be some plague carrier, creating little Nihismth, who get to feed upon planets like the miracula one. And the exile isn t aware of that he/she is the eye of the tornado.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Ah, but if the Force "seeks balance", doesn't that imply a will? And if the Force is a powerful ontological object with a will, then it is tantamount to a god (or at least a minor deity, anyway).

 

Either:

the Force is nothing but a corporeal manifestation of good/evil/both, like some sort of ectoplasmic gravity with an ethical orientation (good points one way, evil the counter-direction);

 

OR

 

the Force is manipulating the universe according to its own (hidden) agenda.

 

So, either we have free will, and we can choose to manipulate the universe according to the laws of physics and metaphysics (which includes this small "f" Force); OR the Force is manipulating the universe and the intelligent beings are deluded in thinking they have free will and the freedom to choose good and evil for themselves.

 

Kreia subscribes to the latter.