darth spock Posted May 8, 2005 Share Posted May 8, 2005 ...I still love Malak! And his face wasn't plowed by Ord Mantell farmers Fanfics: KotOR II: After the Credits Rolled: Read Force Sight: Read Other: Gaming Blog: Read Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metadigital Posted May 8, 2005 Share Posted May 8, 2005 ...I still love Malak! And his face wasn't plowed by Ord Mantell farmers <{POST_SNAPBACK}> True, but he really shouldn't have shaved with a cursed razor (-23 to hit and -46 to damage) ... OBSCVRVM PER OBSCVRIVS ET IGNOTVM PER IGNOTIVS OPVS ARTIFICEM PROBAT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RevanRedefined Posted May 8, 2005 Share Posted May 8, 2005 Atris is the betrayer! Well, some what. She's the one that started stealing all of the Jedi holocrons, and began studying the Sith Holocrons. She was trying to improve her powers, and become the greatest Jedi. And by doing this, it left Historians and others ignorant to the galaxies histories. This would even further prevent the teachings of future generations of Jedi all to benefit her. Her methods were somewhat helpful, in their own radical self-centered way... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metadigital Posted May 8, 2005 Share Posted May 8, 2005 Atris is the betrayer! Well, some what. She's the one that started stealing all of the Jedi holocrons, and began studying the Sith Holocrons. She was trying to improve her powers, and become the greatest Jedi. And by doing this, it left Historians and others ignorant to the galaxies histories. This would even further prevent the teachings of future generations of Jedi all to benefit her. Her methods were somewhat helpful, in their own radical self-centered way... <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Well, Atris was one of the options for darth Traya before the edits removed this option. So the distinction is moot. OBSCVRVM PER OBSCVRIVS ET IGNOTVM PER IGNOTIVS OPVS ARTIFICEM PROBAT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skynet Posted May 9, 2005 Share Posted May 9, 2005 Malak's 'betrayal' of Revan was neither clever or thought-out, it was impulsive and cowardly. Lord of Betrayal? Hardly. "Who could blame Skynet? He's such a cute, innocent, steel-bolted robot." -Gauntlet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
My-Tee-Sun-Ray Posted May 9, 2005 Share Posted May 9, 2005 The queen was.. oh about 30 levels more powerful. So Malak would have served. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metadigital Posted May 9, 2005 Share Posted May 9, 2005 The queen was.. oh about 30 levels more powerful. So Malak would have served. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Yep, a little Jedi Mind Control on the Malek Puppet ... :D OBSCVRVM PER OBSCVRIVS ET IGNOTVM PER IGNOTIVS OPVS ARTIFICEM PROBAT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volourn Posted May 9, 2005 Share Posted May 9, 2005 Malak would win. Kreia is so obvious in her betrayals; Malak (or anyone) could se eher betrayals coming miles away. Meanwile, Malak betrayed Revan and Revan - as 'smart' as he was - didn't see it coming. At the same time, Kreia was so obvious that EVERYONE *knew* she was untrustworthy; but the game forces the player to remain retarded in order to keep the plot moving forward. Lame. "Kreia loved the Exile because (s)he had the power to bring the end of the force" Kreia loved no one. not even herself. She espicially hated the Exile. Her actions prove this. She hated him; because he was not her. Hate. hate. hate. That is her only motivation. DWARVES IN PROJECT ETERNITY = VOLOURN HAS PLEDGED $250. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Vader Posted May 9, 2005 Share Posted May 9, 2005 Well,I disagree completely. Kreia is definitely not driven by hate.And that's what makes her such an interesting character. She is beyond good and evil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Satasn Posted May 9, 2005 Share Posted May 9, 2005 Malak is stupid. Darth Traya totally owns him. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Traya was bitch and besides you shouldnt be posting that name on this forum. She was weak and pathetic, Malak knows war, Traya does not she is an dillusional old woman who has her pathtic apprentices do her dirty work. At least Malak has the balls to annihilate all thsoe who oppose him, his speach is filled with hate noit cryptic words. She is Uber pathethic! yeah, Malak was just too dumb to orchestrate that <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Malak fought the mandalorian wars, any jedi that survived have much honor, Traya didnt even fight <_< what a pathetic jedi. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> All of Trayas pathetic apprentices...? You mean...like Revan for example? Just for that mistake your whole post has been labeled NOOB and marked null and void. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inanna Posted May 9, 2005 Share Posted May 9, 2005 If we're looking at the question of who's better at *betrayal*, not who would pwn the other... Which is more of a betrayal - to: 1. Charge around yelling 'I'm going to kill you' and then try to kill you (Malak) 2. Draw someone into your confidence then force you to try and kill them (Kreia)? Neither of the two are particularly subtle, though. But Malak's just a big plastic bad guy, as someone else said. And he stuffed up murdering Revan, didn't he? (ref. the entire plot of KOTOR1). I don't see why anyone should be surprised, though, given that the whole power structure of the Sith is based on systematic betrayal. I suppose it's sneakier to *not* be a Sith while you're doing your betraying work. If the question is 'who would win a straight-out battle' I'd pick Malak, given that he cheats re the almost-dead Jedi, but that wasn't the question, was it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metadigital Posted May 9, 2005 Share Posted May 9, 2005 (edited) Malak is not a betrayer. He conducted one act of betrayal. There is no modus operandi. No history of betrayal. Just an anomalous act. Traya on the other hand, was a betrayer all the time. At no stage can you reliably trust anything she says (except when she says you are clever not to trust her ). QED Edit: Yah! Level 4. Edited May 9, 2005 by metadigital OBSCVRVM PER OBSCVRIVS ET IGNOTVM PER IGNOTIVS OPVS ARTIFICEM PROBAT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darth spock Posted May 9, 2005 Share Posted May 9, 2005 Everyone knows the submissive are in power... Meaning Kreia manipulates Malak but he is still in power... Fanfics: KotOR II: After the Credits Rolled: Read Force Sight: Read Other: Gaming Blog: Read Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RevanRedefined Posted May 9, 2005 Share Posted May 9, 2005 Malak would win. Kreia is so obvious in her betrayals; Malak (or anyone) could se eher betrayals coming miles away. Meanwile, Malak betrayed Revan and Revan - as 'smart' as he was - didn't see it coming. At the same time, Kreia was so obvious that EVERYONE *knew* she was untrustworthy; but the game forces the player to remain retarded in order to keep the plot moving forward. Lame. "Kreia loved the Exile because (s)he had the power to bring the end of the force" Kreia loved no one. not even herself. She espicially hated the Exile. Her actions prove this. She hated him; because he was not her. Hate. hate. hate. That is her only motivation. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> It's true, Kreia was extremely obvious in her betrayals and mind tricks. She did love the Exile, she said it herself in the final battle. "I loved you as one would love a champion" Exile was her champion because of his/her potential to end the force. But Exile chose not to so she challanged him. The only reason why I think Kreia would defeat Malak is because of her ability to wield multiple lightsabers using the force. The only reason why Malak was so strong was because he had Jedi who weren't one with the force yet, to consume what was left of their life force. Take that away and Revan would have ripped him apart within a few moments. He even ran during the encounter on the Leviathan. But then again, I'd run if I was fighting the guy who just learned he was the Old Dark Lord of the Sith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metadigital Posted May 9, 2005 Share Posted May 9, 2005 Malak would win. Kreia is so obvious in her betrayals; Malak (or anyone) could se eher betrayals coming miles away. Meanwile, Malak betrayed Revan and Revan - as 'smart' as he was - didn't see it coming. At the same time, Kreia was so obvious that EVERYONE *knew* she was untrustworthy; but the game forces the player to remain retarded in order to keep the plot moving forward. Lame. "Kreia loved the Exile because (s)he had the power to bring the end of the force" Kreia loved no one. not even herself. She espicially hated the Exile. Her actions prove this. She hated him; because he was not her. Hate. hate. hate. That is her only motivation. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> "... He loves and hates the ring. " Gandalf LotR. As emotions Love and Hate are not so divorced as to be polar options. It is not uncommon for people to have both feelings -- in different proportions -- simultaneously. If you are having trouble with the concept, think what you would feel if the love of your life betrayed you (e.g. by sleeping with your best friend). Your love wouldn't vapourise instantly, but you quite possibly would feel intense hurt/fear/anger/hate. OBSCVRVM PER OBSCVRIVS ET IGNOTVM PER IGNOTIVS OPVS ARTIFICEM PROBAT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodecahedron87 Posted May 9, 2005 Share Posted May 9, 2005 The real Lord of Betrayals is not Malak; it's HK-50. HK-50 gained the trust of the captain of the Harbinger and then the workers on Peragus II. None of them had any idea he would betray them: the Administration Officer and Maintenence Officer thought he was chatty but harmless. He then gained the trust of Coorta to orchestrate a massive and extremely devious betrayal of everyone on the station, then betrayed Coorta! ("Mocking Query . . . "). Even the Exile is fooled by HK-50's performance: he or she assumes that HK-50 is a harmless but befuddled protocol droid who answers to his or her commands. For sheer scale and craftiness of betrayal, HK-50 beats both Malak and Kreia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metadigital Posted May 9, 2005 Share Posted May 9, 2005 The real Lord of Betrayals is not Malak; it's HK-50. HK-50 gained the trust of the captain of the Harbinger and then the workers on Peragus II. None of them had any idea he would betray them: the Administration Officer and Maintenence Officer thought he was chatty but harmless. He then gained the trust of Coorta to orchestrate a massive and extremely devious betrayal of everyone on the station, then betrayed Coorta! ("Mocking Query . . . "). Even the Exile is fooled by HK-50's performance: he or she assumes that HK-50 is a harmless but befuddled protocol droid who answers to his or her commands. For sheer scale and craftiness of betrayal, HK-50 beats both Malak and Kreia. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> True. But HK-50 is a droid. (:D) And droids are not permissible (which is was why everyone was so fooled; they didn't expect him to disobey orders). OBSCVRVM PER OBSCVRIVS ET IGNOTVM PER IGNOTIVS OPVS ARTIFICEM PROBAT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volourn Posted May 10, 2005 Share Posted May 10, 2005 "she said it herself in the final battle." Ha. Kreia is a know liar. Why would I believe her? She loved no one. Not even herself. "As emotions Love and Hate are not so divorced as to be polar options. It is not uncommon for people to have both feelings -- in different proportions -- simultaneously." True; but Kreia is not human. She is born to do one thing - hate. Hate, hate, hate. She isn't that complex of a character. Hate, hate, hate. DWARVES IN PROJECT ETERNITY = VOLOURN HAS PLEDGED $250. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metadigital Posted May 10, 2005 Share Posted May 10, 2005 "she said it herself in the final battle." Ha. Kreia is a know liar. Why would I believe her? She loved no one. Not even herself. "As emotions Love and Hate are not so divorced as to be polar options. It is not uncommon for people to have both feelings -- in different proportions -- simultaneously." True; but Kreia is not human. She is born to do one thing - hate. Hate, hate, hate. She isn't that complex of a character. Hate, hate, hate. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> And how does this make you feel? And tell me about your mother ... (You make Kreia sound like a Dalek: genetically modified to remove all emotions except hate...) OBSCVRVM PER OBSCVRIVS ET IGNOTVM PER IGNOTIVS OPVS ARTIFICEM PROBAT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volourn Posted May 10, 2005 Share Posted May 10, 2005 Hey, I didn't create the character. I'm just reacting to what I witnessed in game. Afterall, people claim that Kreia 'loved' the PC yet her entire interaction with said PC was an effort to use the Exilt for her own selfish gain. That's not love. As for my mother, she's cool. :cool: DWARVES IN PROJECT ETERNITY = VOLOURN HAS PLEDGED $250. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Flatus Posted May 10, 2005 Share Posted May 10, 2005 i think the "love" was the love of a commodity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mstormrage Posted May 11, 2005 Share Posted May 11, 2005 The only reason why Malak was so strong was because he had Jedi who weren't one with the force yet, to consume what was left of their life force. Take that away and Revan would have ripped him apart within a few moments. He even ran during the encounter on the Leviathan. Take away his "health packs" and he does only last about a minute. The K II villian didn't last much longer, though I was about 7 levels higher than I was in K I. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metadigital Posted May 11, 2005 Share Posted May 11, 2005 Hey, I didn't create the character. I'm just reacting to what I witnessed in game. Afterall, people claim that Kreia 'loved' the PC yet her entire interaction with said PC was an effort to use the Exilt for her own selfish gain. That's not love. As for my mother, she's cool. :cool: <{POST_SNAPBACK}> But that is what some people understand love to be. They are devoid of empathy, and so only think of love as a one way interaction "How everybody loves me, let me count the ways!" They end up bereft of any companions that might have started off trying to be friends before they found out how skewed the person's personality was. And the sad thing is that these sociopaths have no concept of why they are unappealing; in fact it is generally news to them that they aren't loved by everyone! Kreia could very well have loved the Exile, she just thinks love is a one-way adoration of her tangled personality-free zone. Scary, but unfortunately true. OBSCVRVM PER OBSCVRIVS ET IGNOTVM PER IGNOTIVS OPVS ARTIFICEM PROBAT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sotos Posted May 11, 2005 Share Posted May 11, 2005 Love and Manipulation is the same thing for Kreia She does not truly love Exile And does not know what true love is She loves him as a "valuable Thing" and not as a living person He is pricelless for her to fulfill her interests and to influence him to score for her own agenda He is the TRUE last of the Jedi and the last connection to bring balance to the force to a destroyed universe from the previous wars with Malak, Reavn, Mandalorians Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volourn Posted May 11, 2005 Share Posted May 11, 2005 "Kreia could very well have loved the Exile, she just thinks love is a one-way adoration of her tangled personality-free zone. Scary, but unfortunately true." Kreia is many things; but she isn't crazy. She knows exactly what she is doing, and does so willfully. It's not like she she doens't mean to hurt the Exile or doens't understand why she does so. She's not some drunk who can't control their temper when under the influence. She is control. She is just plain hateful. "She loves him as a "valuable Thing" and not as a living person" That's not the same as the love that others are talking about. That's like Papaltine 'loving' Vader because of the power he brings. A means to an end. "He is the TRUE last of the Jedi" No he isn't. He's not a Jedi, and Kreia KNOWS this. The Exile hasn't been a Jedi in years. DWARVES IN PROJECT ETERNITY = VOLOURN HAS PLEDGED $250. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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