Conservatives criticize NDP for helping poor.

[Oerwinde]

I know theres a bunch of Canadians on here and I wondered what everyone thought of the mess our government has become. Recently the NDP took advantage of the scandal smeared Liberals to force changes to the budget to increase spending for education, housing, health care, and the environment, while removing planned tax cuts for large corporations, keeping planned tax cuts for small and medium businesses in the bill. The Conservatives of course were outraged that the NDP could make a deal with the Liberals to make lives better for Canadians, because it doesn't include anything for farmers.

 

Anyone else have any thoughts on this whole Conservatives don't want the government to work situation?

 

EDIT: Just to be clear for non-Canadians, I'm talking about Conservatives as a political party, not ideological conservatives. Same for Liberals.

[WITHTEETH]

Sounds like the scandal was great for the NDP. The NPD is for a more social Canada right?

I'm from the US, Im dislikeing the stand conservatives have here also. All groups will critisize what the other party does just so it can look better. ecen though it might be for the greater good.

I hope for a more social United States someday, all i can do is vote and discuss till it happens, if it does. Amazing how 40% of the population votes against itself out of stupidity.

Im thinking since most conservatives are idealogical, or atleast use it as a tool, its easy to see why they do the things they do, like not care about the enviroment, Education, and when they use it as a tool for corporations and businesses. i can elaborate on it more if you want.

[Oerwinde]

The problem with the scandal is while it will result in increased NDP votes in the next election, because the Conservatives are the 2nd biggest party and the Liberals are a more center left party, it will also result in more support for the Conservatives as well, from the right leaning moderates who voted Liberal for the financial responsibility (The last time the Conservatives were in power they bankrupted the country pretty much) or the "Anyone but the ruling party" voters.

 

More than likely we'll end up with a Conservative government next election, and the first things they'll do is cut taxes and social programs (since they need to get the money for those tax cuts from somewhere), sign up for the ballistic missile defense thing with the US, which is highly unpopular in Canada because its a waste of money, ban gay marriage, which something like 70% of Canada supports, and give us the first deficit in 12 years or so (Took the liberals 3 years to balance the budget after the Conservatives put us into a deficit, Liberals have been in power for something like 15 years). And when Conservative support drops because all the people who voted for them because they weren't the Liberals realize what they voted for, they'll get kicked out of power and either the NDP or the Liberals will replace them again.

 

Major parties in Canada:

 

Conservatives: Imagine Bush's Republicans, only not as arrogant.

 

Liberals: Fiscally responsible, socially progressive, been in power for 15 years so more corrupt than most politicians. They make sure the budget is balanced so they can siphon money off for themselves.

 

NDP: Social Democrats. Big on Health Care, Social Housing, The Environment, and Education. Likes to throw money at problems without really thinking about it.

 

Bloc Quebecois: National branch of the Parti Quebecois, the separatist party. Unfortunately for them, Cretien made it nearly impossible for Quebec to separate, so they just try to make sure Quebec gets more than any other province. Mainly Social Democrat, but they hate the Liberals so much that they side with the Conservatives more than anyone else.

 

Green: Environmentalist groups supported the NDP in the last election. Enough said. Only a major party because they're the only alternative to the Conservatives. Yes, thats right. Conservatives who are also concerned about the environment.

[Nur Ab Sal]

Non-Canadian question: Why Quebec can't gain independence?

[Oerwinde]

Non-Canadian question: Why Quebec can't gain independence?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Well, the "No"s won the last referendum on separation, and afterwards Jean Cretien introduced a bill that would require a 2/3 majority in a referendum for Quebec to separate. Since they achieved a 49% yes at the last one only because of vote tampering (counters were instructed to void any "no" votes where the X went outside the circle in any way. Thousands of votes were voided because of it. Since then the voting rules have been changed so that ANY mark that clearly identifies your choice on the ballot is valid. You can even mark your ballot with a smiley face.) So achieving a 66% vote when separation isn't as popular as it was back then, and they couldn't even get 50% when they cheated, isn't very likely.

 

The separatists caused the situation that lead to where the liberals are right now too. After that the federal government started a big campaign in Quebec promoting federalism and the idea that Quebec is an important part of Canada and should stay a part of Canada. Many Liberal MPs used this to siphon money for themselves, or pad the wallets of friends in the Advertising industry. Eventually these people got really greedy and went too far, taking out enough money for the Auditor General to notice. It originally was something like 140 million dollars was mis-spent or just plain stolen from government coffers, but after investigation it turned out to be more like 30 million. Which honestly is pennies to a government. Thats like the post-it budget. But the Conservatives started playing it up like it was a huge deal. Cretien retired from politics, and Paul Martin took over, and fired pretty much everyone who was involved in the scandal. Pretty much the only Liberal MP left from Cretien's cabinet is Paul Martin, and he's a much different politician.

 

So now, even though no one involved in the scandal is left in the government, the Conservatives are still pushing the Liberals = Crooks angle, and its working. Liberal support is at its lowest in 16 years.

[taks]

Im thinking since most conservatives are idealogical, or atleast use it as a tool, its

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

and liberals don't? boy aren't you self righteous! way to go for hypocrisy. again.

taks

[Laozi]

Conservatives in the U.S. are alittle overly sensative, since none of the "great presidents" have been conservatives.

[WITHTEETH]

Conservatives in the U.S. are alittle overly sensative, since none of the "great presidents" have been conservatives.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well Lincoln was a Republican, but democrats and republicans have kind of switched sides in my eyes.

 

Taks you disagree with my statement about conservatives and idealists obviously, this is a place to talk to one another, talk to me. let me see your side of the story before screaming like a conservative at me.

[Oerwinde]

Conservatives in the U.S. are alittle overly sensative, since none of the "great presidents" have been conservatives.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well Lincoln was a Republican, but democrats and republicans have kind of switched sides in my eyes.

 

Taks you disagree with my statement about conservatives and idealists obviously, this is a place to talk to one another, talk to me. let me see your side of the story before screaming like a conservative at me.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Well a lot of people have said that Republican and Conservative aren't mutually exclusive. There are some liberal republicans, just as there are some conservative Democrats. Just because Lincoln was a republican doesn't mean he was a conservative.

[Laozi]

In the time of Lincoln the republicans were the more liberal of the two parties, infact I don't think the democratic part even existed yet

[Ace]

Conservatives in the U.S. are alittle overly sensative, since none of the "great presidents" have been conservatives.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Well don't tell that to the conservatives. They've been trying to turn Reagan into such a figure.

 

However, for most people writing the history books they've failed at it.

[Darth Flatus]

off topic: I read somewhere that the original ku klux klan were democrats.

[Spooky]

Non-Canadian question: Why Quebec can't gain independence?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Sure it can, but let's be practical about this, there's no point, Quebec dosen't have the economical power or the industry to be independant, it needs the rest of the country as the rest of the country needs it.

 

Of course with all that scandal that's been going on the liberal party in Quebec is discredited for a good long time, on the next elections, they'll be swept aside by the PQ. The liberals in Ottawa will be re-elected simply because no one else is in a position to win, but in Quebec, the Bloc is gonna come through.

 

A combination of the PQ and the Bloc means there's going to be another referendum for Quebec's independance, and this time, there's no telling which way it's gonna go, because most people lost faith in the federal government. There's gonna be referendum because that's what the people want, they're not thinking straigth or practically, they just want it, and like good politicians, they're just gonna hand it over.

[WITHTEETH]

Conservatives in the U.S. are alittle overly sensative, since none of the "great presidents" have been conservatives.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Well don't tell that to the conservatives. They've been trying to turn Reagan into such a figure.

 

However, for most people writing the history books they've failed at it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Reagan, the man who claimed AIDS was the damnnation of gays . could have HUGELY maintained the virus but the damage is already done. Thanks Reagan!

[Jellybelly]

Lincoln was republican, yes. But as Withteeth says, the two great parties in the US essentially both switched sides somewhere down the line, where one more or less assimilated the other and vice versa. This goes for views on ideology, policy and most aspects of what being a political party means.

 

That doesn't mean that there are libaral republicans and conservative democrats, of course. I think the US would be better off with many smaller parties as opposed to the two great ones. Now, I know there are other parties, but none of them stand a chance of representation.

[Oerwinde]

Lincoln was republican, yes. But as Withteeth says, the two great parties in the US essentially both switched sides somewhere down the line, where one more or less assimilated the other and vice versa. This goes for views on ideology, policy and most aspects of what being a political party means.

 

That doesn't mean that there are libaral republicans and conservative democrats, of course. I think the US would be better off with many smaller parties as opposed to the two great ones. Now, I know there are other parties, but none of them stand a chance of representation.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

They might have a chance if they were given some recognition. I mean if the candidates were included in the televised debates and such then maybe more people would consider them.

[Atomic Space Vixen]

Back on topic, what's really pissing me off is the idea, and too many people are buying into this, that the only other choice than Liberal is Conservatives. The NDP can't catch a break, and I'm saying this as someone who has voted Liberal all her life.

I want a strong leader to save my party, Paul Martin has to go, but I'd also like to vote NDP to punish them. However, 1) I can't trust enough people to do the same thing and I'd rather have a corrupt Liberal government in power doing some good things than an honest Conservative government doing bad things, 2) I live in Anne McLellan's riding and I haven't heard of her being involved in the wrong-doings (which of course means I live in Alberta, and you can imagine the hand-rubbing and bared teeth going on here).

[Oerwinde]

I think this whole thing is going to turn BC into the NDP stronghold. BC is very liberal, most of the people here just voted Alliance when the Conservatives were still called that because they weren't the liberals and people didn't care what the Alliance stood for, they were a western party and weren't the liberals so they got their vote. Now with the Conservatives being all bigoted and ignorant in their public speaking the people of BC are learning, and moving over to the NDP.

 

There was a recent poll, I'm not sure if it was Ipsos Reid or the Globe and mail/CTV one that said liberal voters are twice as likely to vote NDP over the Conservatives. And 57% of Canadians believe the conservative party has a hidden agenda they're keeping private so they can win the election. Because if they actually made their policies public, people would immediately think Bush's republicans and not even consider them.

 

Anyway, I voted NDP in the last election, I'll vote NDP again. It was a shame too. They lost to the Conservatives in my riding by 177 votes.

[Atomic Space Vixen]

What hidden agenda? Stephen Harper spoke at a hate rally recently. There is nothing hidden about their agenda. It's conservative through and through.

[Oerwinde]

What hidden agenda? Stephen Harper spoke at a hate rally recently. There is nothing hidden about their agenda. It's conservative through and through.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Hehe, nice. Does anyone have any numbers for support in BC? I know in the last election it was about 30/30/30 for NDP/Liberal/Conservative, but with all thats happened since I want to see what the polls show now, but all I ever see is the numbers in Ontario and Quebec.

[Atomic Space Vixen]

What hidden agenda? Stephen Harper spoke at a hate rally recently. There is nothing hidden about their agenda. It's conservative through and through.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Hehe, nice. Does anyone have any numbers for support in BC? I know in the last election it was about 30/30/30 for NDP/Liberal/Conservative, but with all thats happened since I want to see what the polls show now, but all I ever see is the numbers in Ontario and Quebec.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I don't know about BC, but I can pretty much guarantee a Tory landslide in Alberta, though I'll do what I can to make sure Anne McLellan keeps her seat.

[Oerwinde]

What hidden agenda? Stephen Harper spoke at a hate rally recently. There is nothing hidden about their agenda. It's conservative through and through.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Hehe, nice. Does anyone have any numbers for support in BC? I know in the last election it was about 30/30/30 for NDP/Liberal/Conservative, but with all thats happened since I want to see what the polls show now, but all I ever see is the numbers in Ontario and Quebec.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I don't know about BC, but I can pretty much guarantee a Tory landslide in Alberta, though I'll do what I can to make sure Anne McLellan keeps her seat.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Alberta is always a tory landslide, except in Calgary and Edmonton. I'm pretty sure BC will go to the NDP in the next election. People know the Conservatives are scary, and people think all the Liberals are corrupt, leaving the NDP, the ones who forced the Liberals to take money away from big corporations and give it to the people. I predict huge gains for the NDP next election. Heres hoping they can somehow manage to push through Proportional Representation like they wanted to.

[Silvershadow]

You know, I was going to post something relevant, but talking about the Conservatives usually puts me in such a fit of rage that I become a little incoherent. I would rather see ANY other party in power. And yes, that's including the damn Bloc even though I'm the farthest thing from being a separatist (being as I live in T.O. and all...).

[Atomic Space Vixen]

What hidden agenda? Stephen Harper spoke at a hate rally recently. There is nothing hidden about their agenda. It's conservative through and through.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Hehe, nice. Does anyone have any numbers for support in BC? I know in the last election it was about 30/30/30 for NDP/Liberal/Conservative, but with all thats happened since I want to see what the polls show now, but all I ever see is the numbers in Ontario and Quebec.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I don't know about BC, but I can pretty much guarantee a Tory landslide in Alberta, though I'll do what I can to make sure Anne McLellan keeps her seat.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Alberta is always a tory landslide, except in Calgary and Edmonton. I'm pretty sure BC will go to the NDP in the next election. People know the Conservatives are scary, and people think all the Liberals are corrupt, leaving the NDP, the ones who forced the Liberals to take money away from big corporations and give it to the people. I predict huge gains for the NDP next election. Heres hoping they can somehow manage to push through Proportional Representation like they wanted to.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I don't even know why I said "pretty much", because it is a guarantee. As for "except in Calgary and Edmonton", that depends on whether the election is federal or provincial. I don't know when Calgary last had an MP who wasn't Tory or Reform, but the Liberals did make inroads there in the last provincial election (though the Tories could still be considered having a landslide).

Edmonton is the only area in the province with any non-Conservative MPs, having elected two last time around, though David Kilgour is jumping ship now. We pretty much are the only area to elect any sort of opposition provincially.

[Oerwinde]

I don't even know why I said "pretty much", because it is a guarantee. As for "except in Calgary and Edmonton", that depends on whether the election is federal or provincial. I don't know when Calgary last had an MP who wasn't Tory or Reform, but the Liberals did make inroads there in the last provincial election (though the Tories could still be considered having a landslide).

Edmonton is the only area in the province with any non-Conservative MPs, having elected two last time around, though David Kilgour is jumping ship now. We pretty much are the only area to elect any sort of opposition provincially.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Eh, I didn't even check any facts, I just assumed since cities are generally a LOT more liberal than rural areas, Calgary and Edmonton would have more NDP and Liberals in their ridings.