Who was the best of the best lightsaber user?

[Swxpert]

My post above was directed to Darth Coran

 

 

I\'ve actually studied dookus style long and hard and while form II is powerful it is the curved lightsaber that makes dooku so lethal, if you look at him closly While he is performing his moves, he rotates the blade in his hand so the opponent mus constantly get used to not only a powerful fighting style but also a constanly changing blade angle.

[Darth Mortis]

The only Jedi Lightsaber form that has no potential weakness is Niman. As of the Clone Wars era Jedi, They did perfect their training during war conditions.

 

Very ineffective form as a matter a fact. Virtually all who used this form DIED!

 

Yeah, I was thinking that last night for some reason. One of the weaknesses of Vaapad would be that its not all that powerful against a Jedi-it works by reflecting darkside energy back at an opponent, and of course Jedi are Lightsiders by definition so it wouldn't work. I'm also wondering how good it is against droids, since they are not living beings as far as the Force is concerned they couldn't provide anything to reflect back through the force. Vaapad isn't defenceless against droids-if it was Windu would have been killed on Genosis-but its unlikely to be anymore effective than any other form against droids.

 

Who is to say WHAT KIND of energy it reflects. All that is known is that when Mace wants to he can use to to reflect others powers back at them or use their powers for his own. Your the one that's says is like the same thing as juyo. Juyo is the greatest form (was till vapaad) against a lightsaber user (of any kind but mabey not alot at the same time) ever during it's time. Mace vapaad owned against droids as shown over and over throughout the books. Mace beat a whole droid army. They were shooting hundreds of blasters at him and he was reflecting them all. He even killed jango fett. It ownes against ALL that stuff as PROVEN throug what he acomplished by using it against them. He didn't even struggle to reflect droids blasters and than own them.

 

Focus is a problem for most of the forms. The more agressive forms can lead to focusing so much on a single target you miss new threats or react more slowly against them. More defensive forms are less focused, which while allowing the Jedi to react faster to new threats, means that attacks are weaker. Mace's distraction in ROTS wasn't, however, down to Vaapad as he wasn't fighting at the time. It was more down to Mace not considering Anakin a threat and not being on his guard against him. I do, however, agree with the problem with focus being to narrow. This in fact is what I meant when I said that one of the weaknesses of Vaapad would be in situations where there are more opponents than you can take out quickly, due to its high focus on a small number of targets the Jedi would be reacting more slowly in defence and therefore be more likely to be hit.

 

I don't think any lightsaber form would of saved mace from anakin. The point is if Mace is OPENLY going to fight people he CAN face all the force sensitives very well with this form and focus opon all of them. Vapaad can switch STYLES do you understand that? If he KNOWS he needs to face multiple foes he will adjust as his form can adjust and is VERY UNPREDICTABLE. It is NOT just juyo.

 

Niman is potentally the most powerful of all the lightsabre forms as its principal focus is on adaptability and balance. In theory Niman should allow the user to react equally well to any sort of threat in any situation. In practice however its lack of focus is a major drawback if you are coming under a tightly focused attack-This is why Janga Fett was able to shoot the Jedi that threated him Dooku on Genosis and get through his defences. All the Jedi who were killed on Genosis were, apparently, using the Niman form and this lead the Jedi to stop using it in combat after Genosis. (Although it was still taught, Niman is a prequsite for learning the more aggessive forms-at least for Jedi, Sith might not have bothered. Its impossible to know if Niman was taught to the Sith since the only two Sith Lords who were not Jedi at one point were Sidious and Maul, and we have no idea which of the forms they knew-only the form they faught with.)

 

It would be interesting, in a general way, to know which where the most popular lightsabre forms used by the Jedi after Genosis, and the forms the Jedi used most often during Revans time. I'm wondering if Jedi tend to default to the same general forms during times of war, which would tell us which forms were most effective in combat-assuming Jedi that used the less effective forms were either killed or wounded and decided to change to a different form as time went by.

 

All who used ninman died but others who used other forms survived.

 

Vaapad is classed as form VII, thats an agressive form regardless of what name you give the style of fighting

 

Many sources say is is a brand new form BASED off juyo meaning that is how you learn it by mastering that form first. You keep saying vapaad is a offensive form and but it was clear in the books and movies that Mace WAS on the defensive against palpatine. IT IS UNPREDICTABLE and can switch. Surley you can understand that. Mace always let palpatine attack first cause he adjusted HIS lightsaber form to BE unpredictable like that. He basically resulted to obi-wons form to strike only when the foe is open but with much more skill and a super conducting loop using palpatines speed and agression against him proving that it can even DRAW off the OTHERS lightsaber skils to FURTHER adapt. So it has the potential (especially against another lightsaber user) from a master of vapaad to show no weakness to another lightsaber user.

 

 

And yet again you read only what you want to read and making comments that someone else made in the posts you're replying to-for example you say;

All who used ninman died but others who used other forms survived.

Which, if you had bothered to read and digest my post was the same as me saying;

All the Jedi who were killed on Genosis were, apparently, using the Niman form and this lead the Jedi to stop using it in combat after Genosis.

 

If you can put together a reasoned, logical argument instead of erratic statements that don't hold up and accept that no matter what you wish is true in Starwars, George Lucas and LA have the last word on it then I'll start considering listening to you again. As it is you are not having a discussion, you are just arguing for the sake of it.

[DeathScepter]

Sidenote on Niman: The Jedi whom praticed it during the clone wars, pratice it half heartly because they didn't have a major war going on. During peace time, people will let their combat skills go to waste because of little or lack of conflict.

 

 

 

So they are not up to par for combat for war time with their skills with Niman.

[Darth Mortis]

*nods* Niman was also called the Diplomats form due to most of the Jedi using it being involved in diplomacy-which unless some some of the SW races have some very strange ideas on what constitutes diplomatic talks probably didn't leave a lot of time to sharpen their combat skills. (Having said that I can imagine talks between Wookies and Trandlosians getting a little heated lol)

 

I would say that one advantage Sith tend to have over Jedi, at least at the begining of a conflict between the two, is that they are the more experienced fighters. After all Sith phylosophy is about conflict and struggle, so they prepare for combat far more often than Jedi do. This would in fact fit with known wars between the two groups-Sith tend to get the upper-hand at the start of a war, but the Jedi start to improve over time.

 

Again, I'm wondering what Lightsabre forms Jedi favoured at different times. It would be sort of interesting to see if they tended to drift towards one set of forms-such as Niman-in protracted periods of peace, and then drifted back towards other forms after a war started. I'm guessing that they did, since during times of 'Peace' most (If not all) of their opponets would be using blasters so their would be less need to know a form that was good against lightsabres. By the clone wars things would have been even worse than normal-during Revans time there would still be Jedi masters who had faught against Exar Kun, so they would probably have made sure their students knew how to fight against a lightsabre opponent-By the time of the Clone wars however the Jedi thought the Sith had been dead for 1000 years, so I doubt there were any masters who thought lightsabre verses lightsabre battles would ever happen.

 

Intresting, and something else to further muddy the waters as to who would be the best lightsabre user, since Jedi who were trained during a peaceful period might not have been using the form that they would have been best at, and in any event they wouldn't have reached their full potential due to lack of experiece-Even Yoda might not have been quite as good with a sabre as he had the potential to be, given that the number of lightsabre opponents for him to fight during his lifetime prior to the clone wars was most likley very low-ie the odd fallen Jedi but no Sith, who were hiding.

 

As to the best.....thats a hard one. I think the only person on the list who we know was not beaten in a lightsabre fight at some point was Mace Windu (We can't include Exile or Revan here, since we just don't know enough about their history to say if they were ever beaten). Palpatine was beaten by Mace, and drew against Yoda, Luke Skywalker was beaten by Vader, Vader was beaten by Dooku, Luke and Obi-Wan....Using this logic then the best lightsabre user would have to be either Obi-Wan or Windu. Windu managed to beat Palpatine, but Obi-Wan managed to beat General Grevious (who Mace failed to beat), Vader and Darth Maul (When Obo-Wan was still a pawadan). For taking on and beating more powerful/stronger opponents consistantly I think the title should really be held by Obo-Wan-even if Dooku beat him twice-rather than Windu.

[Xard]

Besides, in original scripts Anakin was going to defeat Mace in duel

 

So much about invincible Vaapad

[OverPowered Godzilla (OPG)]

As to the best.....thats a hard one. I think the only person on the list who we know was not beaten in a lightsabre fight at some point was Mace Windu (We can't include Exile or Revan here, since we just don't know enough about their history to say if they were ever beaten). Palpatine was beaten by Mace, and drew against Yoda, Luke Skywalker was beaten by Vader, Vader was beaten by Dooku, Luke and Obi-Wan....Using this logic then the best lightsabre user would have to be either Obi-Wan or Windu. Windu managed to beat Palpatine, but Obi-Wan managed to beat General Grevious (who Mace failed to beat), Vader and Darth Maul (When Obo-Wan was still a pawadan). For taking on and beating more powerful/stronger opponents consistantly I think the title should really be held by Obo-Wan-even if Dooku beat him twice-rather than Windu

 

Mace crushed General Grevious chest and made him run I think mace one. There are many who could beat obi-won in a lightsaber duel.

 

 

 

 

 

Besides, in original scripts Anakin was going to defeat Mace in duel

 

So much about invincible Vaapad

 

 

Yeah and it didn't happen did it so what you are saying holds no bearing. Anakin is the chosen one anyway.

[Darth Mortis]

Besides, in original scripts Anakin was going to defeat Mace in duel

 

So much about invincible Vaapad

 

Yes, I remember reading that somewhere. Think they got halfway through the film and realised that if they included everything they wanted to in it the whole thing would have been nearly four hours long. I know they filmed and cut a huge chunk out of the film at the start to shorten the film as it was. (You can see some of the cut content on the DVD)

[DeathScepter]

Niman as a Lightsaber system is perfectly good and legit system of choice. But it is up to the user to to make it combat ready for that user. No matter how good the system is, it is up to the user to make it usable for them.

 

 

 

Even the weakest system is better when a user makes it combat ready than a most perfect combat ready system with a lazy schutta whom doesn't make it combat ready for that user.

[jodo kast 5]

Luke and Sidious. Read the Dark Empire series and you'll find out why.

[OverPowered Godzilla (OPG)]

Luke and Sidious. Read the Dark Empire series and you'll find out why.

 

Yeah he was more powerful in the books and also had a crystal that greatly altered his power.

[DeathScepter]

I will not deny those two as two of better post-RofJ lightsaber duelist.

[Darth Mortis]

I will not deny those two as two of better post-RofJ lightsaber duelist.

 

Well yes, if I'm remembering correctly they would have been the only two people in the galaxy (or at least the only two known) who could have truely called themselves a Jedi or Sith at that point-meaning that they had been fully trained.

[DeathScepter]

also Luke ,having minum requirement to be a legit Jedi, has the imagination and the patience to develop those skills that Obi Wan and Yoda had taught him. And that is one of the reasons he surived against Vader.

 

 

 

Sidious has at least 1,000 years of DEDICATED Sith Knowledge and legacy behind him.

[Darth Mortis]

also Luke ,having minum requirement to be a legit Jedi, has the imagination and the patience to develop those skills that Obi Wan and Yoda had taught him. And that is one of the reasons he surived against Vader.

 

 

 

Sidious has at least 1,000 years of DEDICATED Sith Knowledge and legacy behind him.

 

Assuming that it takes years to fully master a lightsabre form, and given that Luke only trained with Yoda for a few months, it seems unlikely that Luke would have been considered a master swordsman by the standards of the pre-clone wars jedi. (Yes, the Exile did seem to learn 'new' lightsabre forms quickly, but it is worth noting that A: The Exile was a trained Jedi before he lost his connection to the force, so he/she probably wasn't learning an entirely new form, but relearning forms they knew before but forgot about. B: There are no specific timescales given for events that occur with in the KOTOR games, so we have no way of telling how long it really took him to pick up the forms from the masters (If your playing as a lightsider anyway, which is the cannon). The closest we get is in K1 when Revan is told that '...you have picked up in weeks what many Jedi take years to master...')

 

Although Luke would have been trained in at least two forms-Yodas form and Obi-Wans-and he did seem to know Vaders style (he used that on the deathstar) I'm not even sure if Luke used one particular form in the same way that the Jedi used to. It may be that Luke's lightsabre form is/was a mixture of at least three different styles, in which case he would be far more adaptive and unpredictable than the 'old' Jedi would have been. That might help explain, at least in part, why someone who was only trained for a few months by Yoda would be able to hold their own against a fully trained Sith Lord. Simply put they would not be used to fighting someone who was using a mixture of forms-The same way that Palpatine had trouble dealing with Vaapad simply because he didn't know that form, although there would have been other factors in that case.

[DeathScepter]

Luke has the records left behind in Yoda and Obi Wan's respective Hutts. So therefore he has something to incorpate his skills from.

[jodo kast 5]

That and coupled with the knowledge and holocrons he found in the remains of the Ossus Jedi Temple aswell as the knowledge Palpatine taught him in DE, along with knowing a few very rare techniques like Electric Judgment and the Fallanassi technique where you can separate yourself from the Force and not be cut off from it, and you pretty much got the best damn Jedi ever.

 

And Palpatine knew far more than 1,000 years worth of knowledge. DE Sourcebook and NEC state that he knows every darkside technique ever made and knows how to defend against them, including Sith Amulet blasts, aswell as the Force Storm technique and being able to endow his minions with some of his power and to switch bodies by overpowering the soul within an occupied body and knowing the mentioned Fallanassi technique above, and you'd pretty much have the best Sith Lord ever right there(NEC and ROTS Novel state that by ROTS, he's the most powerful Sith Lord in History itself).

[DeathScepter]

I do believe that many of the EU writers can be absurded with the POWER levels.

 

 

 

 

In my previous posts about Palpitine, That 1,000 years of dedicated knowledge by those previous Sith Lords is what led dear old Palptine to other sources of Sith knowledge.

 

 

 

The two only previous Sith Lords could match his knowledge and power level potentially are Darth Bane and Darth Revan.

 

 

 

Neither of them are slackers.

[jodo kast 5]

I do believe that many of the EU writers can be absurded with the POWER levels.

 

 

 

 

In my previous posts about Palpitine, That 1,000 years of dedicated knowledge by those previous Sith Lords is what led dear old Palptine to other sources of Sith knowledge.

 

 

 

The two only previous Sith Lords could match his knowledge and power level potentially are Darth Bane and Darth Revan.

 

 

 

Neither of them are slackers.

I have to agree with that. Ever since DE, they've been making Luke to an almost Dragon Ball Z level character, but nevertheless, it's still canon.

 

Do you have any sources to prove that?

 

No offence, but I don't think Revan or Bane are as powerful as Palpatine. First of all, neither of them could even hope to make a Force Storm on Palpatine's scale, and if they did, they most likely wouldn't be able to control it. That and I don't think Revan or Bane have any of the knowledge Palpatine has, since neither have been shown to pull off anything Palpatine could or couldn't, aswell as being able to transfer their soul's to another body and being able to overpower that body's soul. That and neither have been referred to as knowing all darkside powers and how to defend against them including Sith Amulet blasts, or knowing the Fallanassi technique above or being described as' faster than the eye could see' or 'the best of best' in saber fighting. Hell, even the Sith spirit's on Korriban respected and feared Palpatine, as shown in Empire's End #1, if that doesn't show he's the most powerful Sith ever, then I don't know what is.

[Darth Mortis]

I do believe that many of the EU writers can be absurded with the POWER levels.

 

 

 

 

In my previous posts about Palpitine, That 1,000 years of dedicated knowledge by those previous Sith Lords is what led dear old Palptine to other sources of Sith knowledge.

 

 

 

The two only previous Sith Lords could match his knowledge and power level potentially are Darth Bane and Darth Revan.

 

 

 

Neither of them are slackers.

I have to agree with that. Ever since DE, they've been making Luke to an almost Dragon Ball Z level character, but nevertheless, it's still canon.

 

Do you have any sources to prove that?

 

No offence, but I don't think Revan or Bane are as powerful as Palpatine. First of all, neither of them could even hope to make a Force Storm on Palpatine's scale, and if they did, they most likely wouldn't be able to control it. That and I don't think Revan or Bane have any of the knowledge Palpatine has, since neither have been shown to pull off anything Palpatine could or couldn't, aswell as being able to transfer their soul's to another body and being able to overpower that body's soul. That and neither have been referred to as knowing all darkside powers and how to defend against them including Sith Amulet blasts, or knowing the Fallanassi technique above or being described as' faster than the eye could see' or 'the best of best' in saber fighting. Hell, even the Sith spirit's on Korriban respected and feared Palpatine, as shown in Empire's End #1, if that doesn't show he's the most powerful Sith ever, then I don't know what is.

 

We don't really know how powerful Revan or Bane were since we've seen/read less about them than we have Palpatine. For all we know the Force powers Palpatine used were developed by either Revan or Bane-or some other Lord of the Sith we've never heard about. Palpatine might have been useing powers that were known to all the Lords of the Sith that came after Bane-ie the Sith who were in hiding for a thousand years-it could be that he was just better or more skilled in using them, or he had more oppotunity to use them after the Jedi were gone. Lets face it if you are attempting to hide you don't want to do something that might warn the people your hiding from that you are around.

 

The ability to put himself in a different body is, from what I seem to remember reading, orignally a Jedi-rather than a Sith-skill that Palpatine stole and used himself. This came from the book DarkSabre, although LA might not consider this as being absolute truth. It is also worth pointing out that Palpatine could only put himself into bodies that either had no mind/will of their own-his own clones-or into very young children, such as Anakin Solo. It seems that the ability does not work on adults-or at least not force sensitive adults as I'm assuming that swaping places with a none force sensitive person would leave him unable to use the force.

 

The problem with Palpatine is that for a long time he was, in effect, the only Sith Lord anyone was writing about, so the writers went to town. In order to make him seem like a serious threat the writers gave him abilities that made a Death Star look like a toy, without asking 'well, if he was that powerful why didn't the Sith crush the Jedi eons ago....Why bother building the Death Stars and why did he need Vader?....' GL's comments that Palpatine was the most powerful Sith Lord ever are an attempt to explain this, without having to suddenly take all the EU works that have Palpatine in them and declare them non-cannoncal. In future I don't think we will ever see a Lord of the Sith who can do all of the same things Palpatine could, or if they can they will make sure their powers come at a serious price-Nilhus being a good example of a very powerful Sith with some serious limitations.

[DeathScepter]

on my previous post, I did say that Revan and Bane potentially match Palptine.

 

 

 

In the Darth Bane By Drew, It said that Darth Revan's holocron has more knowledge and wisdom on and about the dark side than all of the Korriban's libaries.

 

 

So Bane with the knowledge from Darth Revan's holocron laid the foundation for his Sith Order inwhich Palptine is a part of.

 

 

We all know that Revan was thristy for knowledge while he was alive at least he was a Jedi and Sith. And he was described by his mentor and master Kreia as looking into the heart of the force.

 

 

With a constant search of knowledge and being naturally powerful in the force, Revan is a formiable Force user.

 

 

Like Revan, Bane was also thristy for knowledge so he can improve himself. Also quite strong in the force. I do think that Exar Kun is good competition for Bane, Revan and Palptine.

[jodo kast 5]

I do believe that many of the EU writers can be absurded with the POWER levels.

 

 

 

 

In my previous posts about Palpitine, That 1,000 years of dedicated knowledge by those previous Sith Lords is what led dear old Palptine to other sources of Sith knowledge.

 

 

 

The two only previous Sith Lords could match his knowledge and power level potentially are Darth Bane and Darth Revan.

 

 

 

Neither of them are slackers.

I have to agree with that. Ever since DE, they've been making Luke to an almost Dragon Ball Z level character, but nevertheless, it's still canon.

 

Do you have any sources to prove that?

 

No offence, but I don't think Revan or Bane are as powerful as Palpatine. First of all, neither of them could even hope to make a Force Storm on Palpatine's scale, and if they did, they most likely wouldn't be able to control it. That and I don't think Revan or Bane have any of the knowledge Palpatine has, since neither have been shown to pull off anything Palpatine could or couldn't, aswell as being able to transfer their soul's to another body and being able to overpower that body's soul. That and neither have been referred to as knowing all darkside powers and how to defend against them including Sith Amulet blasts, or knowing the Fallanassi technique above or being described as' faster than the eye could see' or 'the best of best' in saber fighting. Hell, even the Sith spirit's on Korriban respected and feared Palpatine, as shown in Empire's End #1, if that doesn't show he's the most powerful Sith ever, then I don't know what is.

 

We don't really know how powerful Revan or Bane were since we've seen/read less about them than we have Palpatine. For all we know the Force powers Palpatine used were developed by either Revan or Bane-or some other Lord of the Sith we've never heard about. Palpatine might have been useing powers that were known to all the Lords of the Sith that came after Bane-ie the Sith who were in hiding for a thousand years-it could be that he was just better or more skilled in using them, or he had more oppotunity to use them after the Jedi were gone. Lets face it if you are attempting to hide you don't want to do something that might warn the people your hiding from that you are around.

 

The ability to put himself in a different body is, from what I seem to remember reading, orignally a Jedi-rather than a Sith-skill that Palpatine stole and used himself. This came from the book DarkSabre, although LA might not consider this as being absolute truth. It is also worth pointing out that Palpatine could only put himself into bodies that either had no mind/will of their own-his own clones-or into very young children, such as Anakin Solo. It seems that the ability does not work on adults-or at least not force sensitive adults as I'm assuming that swaping places with a none force sensitive person would leave him unable to use the force.

 

The problem with Palpatine is that for a long time he was, in effect, the only Sith Lord anyone was writing about, so the writers went to town. In order to make him seem like a serious threat the writers gave him abilities that made a Death Star look like a toy, without asking 'well, if he was that powerful why didn't the Sith crush the Jedi eons ago....Why bother building the Death Stars and why did he need Vader?....' GL's comments that Palpatine was the most powerful Sith Lord ever are an attempt to explain this, without having to suddenly take all the EU works that have Palpatine in them and declare them non-cannoncal. In future I don't think we will ever see a Lord of the Sith who can do all of the same things Palpatine could, or if they can they will make sure their powers come at a serious price-Nilhus being a good example of a very powerful Sith with some serious limitations.

Agreed. Though DE Sourcebook specifically states Palpatine is the only one who knew what Force Storms were and how to control. But like you said, the rest is speculation, though considering Palpatine is basically described as the Anti-Christ of the SW Universe, I'd say he's pretty much the only one who could use a few of those techniques successfully without it going out of control or just not working at all.

 

Do you have a paragraph or sentence that describes that from Darksaber? I don't believe the Jedi would willfully use a technique like that considering it goes against their morals by taking something from somebody else, as it would be a bit too extreme and self-centered to be Jedi-like by stealing someone else' body. Actually, Palpatine managed to get into the body of one of his old Emperor's Hand's and that's how he got to Byss in the first place, though after he left the body, the guy went insane. GL never commented that Palpatine was the most powerful Sith ever, though he does imply it by saying "Yoda or Mace are the only one's strong enough to go toe-to-toe with Palpatine", though the ROTS Novel and NEC does say that "Yoda couldn't defeat the most powerful Sith Lord in History', so, yeah.

 

Nevertheless, it's still canon. Besides, Palpatine gets powerful GRADUALLY, he doesn't get all of it in one night. As I recall, after TPM, he never used his saber again until Mace and The Posse confronted him and had to tone it down on the Force Powers and Sith Alchemy to keep himself away from being suspected by the Jedi. After the Purge, Palpatine doesn't have to worry about the Jedi and starts to practice with Force Powers and Sith Alchemy without worry, which by a few months before ANH, he's powerful enough to fry an entire room of genetically-altered Stormtroopers with Force Lightning(From SW: Empire comics, BTW) with ease.

[DeathScepter]

this is why i do hate Uber force users. for they are too damn strong.

[jodo kast 5]

on my previous post, I did say that Revan and Bane potentially match Palptine.

 

 

 

In the Darth Bane By Drew, It said that Darth Revan's holocron has more knowledge and wisdom on and about the dark side than all of the Korriban's libaries.

 

 

So Bane with the knowledge from Darth Revan's holocron laid the foundation for his Sith Order inwhich Palptine is a part of.

 

 

We all know that Revan was thristy for knowledge while he was alive at least he was a Jedi and Sith. And he was described by his mentor and master Kreia as looking into the heart of the force.

 

 

With a constant search of knowledge and being naturally powerful in the force, Revan is a formiable Force user.

 

 

Like Revan, Bane was also thristy for knowledge so he can improve himself. Also quite strong in the force. I do think that Exar Kun is good competition for Bane, Revan and Palptine.

Maybe, maybe not. Though potential doesn't mean squat unless you know how to reach it full on.

 

True, though I'd say Palpatine has more knowledge than Korriban aswell, since not all the books their teach you every single Dark Side power and how to defend against them or how to use a Force Storm successfully, which neither Revan nor Bane have been described as using at all.

 

So? Wanting and having a thirst for knowledge doesn't mean anything unless you have all of it and know how to use to it's full power, which is exactly what Palpatine did. Kreia is a fallible source, for all we know she could've been exaggerating or lying about him, considering her pride in him as her student could've blinded her judgment. That and she never knew Palpatine, so that factors in.

 

 

Like I said; Wanting and having a thirst for knowledge doesn't mean anything unless you have all of it and know how to use to it's full power, which is exactly what Palpatine did. Proof? Sorry, I'd maybe put Revan as a powerful Force user if he'd been given more of a backstory, but he does, he doesn't even come close to Palpatine.

 

 

Sorry to sound like a Palpatine-fanboy, but I'm not, I'm just passing this info along that way incase you ever get into a debate with someone, you won't be called a Revan fanboy.

[DeathScepter]

It is not you i having my issues with. It is the creative insanity inwhich Star Wars is known. Uber Force users with even more insane force abilities and Force immunitied Aliens like The Vong.

 

 

 

 

Btw don't eat fanboys because they are bad for your health.........Trust me I know.

 

 

 

Fanboys and creative insanity are the two reasons why I am not a serious Star Wars fan like I should be. That is why I do like the Star Trek more than I do like Star Wars.

[jodo kast 5]

It is not you i having my issues with. It is the creative insanity inwhich Star Wars is known. Uber Force users with even more insane force abilities and Force immunitied Aliens like The Vong.

 

 

 

 

Btw don't eat fanboys because they are bad for your health.........Trust me I know.

 

 

 

Fanboys and creative insanity are the two reasons why I am not a serious Star Wars fan like I should be. That is why I do like the Star Trek more than I do like Star Wars.

I know, I'm just saying is all. I have to agree with you on that. The Post-ROTJ series has gone downhill ever since DE ended. Now it's turned into an overpowering fest where you assume they'll make Luke able to create Jesus Christ himself with a flick of his wrist. I hate the Vong aswell.

 

Agreed, though I more a Marvel and Batman fan, than Star Trek, though Trek's alright.