a comparison of I and II after playing II first

[bluerosy]

I'm one of those rare people who got their introduction to the KotOR world with The Sith Lords, and I was able to see II without any biases from having played I. Twas an experience that gave me a very unique viewpoint and I'll just tell you what I saw from my point of view from playing the two games backward.

 

Prepare for a long post...

 

Plot Advancement/Game design

The Sith Lords: Influence made finding out about characters prohibitively difficult. This aspect of the game wasn't intuitive enough such that the average gamer would be able to tell when and where to do what, in order to get what they wanted. It was a bad decision to base an important plot advancement aspect such as character background, on a device that didn't guarantee the gamer would be able to find out everything. Lots of "huh" moments cos of that.

 

One very interesting thing about the sequel was that light and dark side choices began to blur. You could select what you thought was a light side choice and dark side outcome could occur (e.g. giving the beggar on Nar Shadda money, and seeing him getting robbed cos of it).

 

Original: Gaining character backgrounds based on experience points was a good way to let the gamer know about the back stories in stages. This guaranteed the gamer would be able to find out everything, and also keep interest piqued throughout the game.

 

In this sense, it was good to keep things simple to avoid giving gamers a "huh" moment, which occured pretty often in TSL

 

Bosses/Combat

The Sith Lords: Definitely more difficult than the original. The end game, where you fight on telos/ravager, has Mandalore as a forced character, which means that you're weaker cos he is non-Jedi. Not to mention, Malachor V, where you are forced to travel alone and where you face Storm Beasts that really threaten to whip your ass. I found those were much more difficult than the Sith army waiting in Trayus Academy and that was only the preliminary endgame!

 

Bosses were a walkover, however, except for Kreia and her lightsaber grandchildren.

 

I liked the feats. My TSL Guardian was more powerful than my original game Guardian.

 

Original: When I played the original's endgame I was like huh? I actually have a PARTY with me for the endgame? This is so easy compared to Malachor V/Trayus Academy, where I was saving every two rooms - I was that terrified of dying...

 

Malak and his Jedi grandchildren were so repetitive. It got boring after awhile cos I used my run-and-saber technique. Was a Guardian so I saved my precious Force Points for Master Speed.

 

I found Bastila reminiscent of Darth Sion (the resurrecting aspect) and also Kreia (a member of your party who becomes final boss aspect). I enjoyed turning Bastila to light side. That was the only combat aspect that I preferred over the sequel.

 

I didn't like the animations for feats, especially Force Wave. It was fine-tuned in the sequel and much better done there.

 

Storyline

The Sith Lords: The writing is simply brilliant. Where the original failed in depth and dimensionality, the sequel succeeded in creating a dark, deeply disturbing and most importantly, resonant storyline. Who would have conceived of Force "wounds" and a final boss who was neither Jedi nor Sith (Kreia, who wants to get rid of the Force)? Here's where the game's ambitious complexity succeeded very well. The plot devices simply absorb you into the story. No one ridicules the storyline, it is only weakened by the ending. The game asks pertinent questions about light and dark as well as the Force itself, and gives them a depth that transforms these concepts into more than children's science mythology. George Lucas should shake in his Stormtrooper boots.

 

Original: The light side and dark side are flat, 2-dimensional concepts with a very clear line drawn between the two. Yawn. Boring. So Enid Blyton.

 

Characters

The Sith Lords: I far preferred the sequel in terms of characters. They somehow seem to resonate very deeply - and they provoke debate, as seen in the countless threads and polls on this forum.

 

They have a lot of depth and believability. I think this has to do with the absolutely superb voice acting and the superior writing. There are very few cheesy lines here and all characters are very 3-dimensional, like real people.

 

Original: I found the characters extremely 2-dimensional and flat. They felt forced, more like caricatures than real people. Not to mention the voice acting was terrible ESPECIALLY for Bastila Shan. Well admittedly she's probably the best looking female character out of both games, but her voice acting was terrible ("You cannot win, Revan" at the start was groan-inducing ) There were just cheesy lines galore.

 

Romance

The Sith Lords: Do you ever think Obsidian MEANT for girls to hate Disciple and want Atton? It gives so much more depth to the story when you think of all the unresolved sexual tension between your character and Atton that is simply expressed in this one line in the entire game:

 

"If you ever think you're alone, play pazaak in your head because when you do, you'll be playing pazaak with me."

 

Just ONE line can have worlds of meaning. Slam me for being a fangirl, but I think it's Obsidian's way of creating believable romantic tension.

 

I don't know about the male options though. I always played as LSF Guardian

 

Original: Carth's voice acting and line scripting were so bad that when he said "I love you" on the Unknown World, I nearly laughed out loud. It wasn't written well enough not to look cheesy and forced. There was never any feeling of romantic tension building, and suddenly wham, he thinks he loves you? Ugh. This is not Mills and Boon... Anyway, I think Atton was better looking than Carth. Carth's animation looked like crap.

 

Conclusion

KotOR was revolutionary for its time, but TSL has taken it one notch higher in terms of sheer complexity and storytelling finesse. RPG games are all about the story, and while the original came up with a fantastic game engine, Obsidian has fine tuned it for a truly ambitious storytelling attempt where the original's story fell flat. Of course, this backfired in some ways e.g. the influence factor which over-complicated things and was not fine-tuned enough, as well as an ending that did not give a conclusive ending. Perhaps Obsidian merely wanted to add to the open-endedness and sense of mystery that pervaded the game? Who knows.

 

There may be some questionability about TSL's quality with regards to the cut endings, but when seen from the perspective of how it improved over the original, it's a really brilliant game. I absolutely prefer the sequel.

 

Now I'm all prepared to get slammed by the TSL-naysayers... ;P

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

Conclusion

KotOR was revolutionary for its time, but TSL has taken it one notch higher in terms of sheer complexity and storytelling finesse. RPG games are all about the story, and while the original came up with a fantastic game engine, Obsidian has fine tuned it for a truly ambitious storytelling attempt where the original's story fell flat. Of course, this backfired in some ways e.g. the influence factor which over-complicated things and was not fine-tuned enough, as well as an ending that did not give a conclusive ending. Perhaps Obsidian merely wanted to add to the open-endedness and sense of mystery that pervaded the game? Who knows.

 

There may be some questionability about TSL's quality with regards to the cut endings, but when seen from the perspective of how it improved over the original, it's a really brilliant game. I absolutely prefer the sequel.

 

Now I'm all prepared to get slammed by the TSL-naysayers... ;P

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I wouldnt call either of them great. But then I probably play more and varied things than most people on here do (especially this particular forum).

 

But I agree with your conclusion even though I played KOTOR first.

[draakh_kimera]

I dunno, I thought that the first game had more difficult battles compared to the second one. I got through the Trayus Academy without a single problem until Kreia, and even though she was hard, she went down pretty fast, and that was with a sentinel/watchman build. The storm beasts, great or normal, also went down in about two rounds max, four for the big guy. Going through the star forge as a sentinel in the first game was pretty hard for me. The difference is the enemy AI, it's far better in the first one. They actually used different force powers against you in KotOR I, unlike KotOR II. I still prefer the second game though!

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

I dunno, I thought that the first game had more difficult battles compared to the second one.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

If you think about it though, that is only logical since you are now familiar with the system. It's like when I played Shadow Hearts and ShadowHearts II. In the first I had a bloody time and half getting used to the judgement ring which made the game "difficult" in the second one I could nail the critical zone 90% of the time which made the game a whole lot easier.

 

One of the things I did in KOTOR was to create a character to be a smuggler rather than a Jedi. Which meant he was way too smart for the game because skills were next to useless and suffered in other stat areas. Would have made a great smuggler though.. And as he was as smart or maybe a bit smarter it made digging up the twist a couple of hours into the game pretty easy.

[draakh_kimera]

If you think about it though, that is only logical since you are now familiar with the system. It's like when I played Shadow Hearts and ShadowHearts II. In the first I had a bloody time and half getting used to the judgement ring which made the game "difficult" in the second one I could nail the critical zone 90% of the time which made the game a whole lot easier.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

True, but there was still a lack of offensive force powers, shields, stims etc. used by enemies in KotOR II. Also, one hit kills were much more rare in KotOR I, even after I'd played it a couple of times and gotten the hang of it.

[JediExile]

I personally liked KOTOR better. You are right in that RPGs most important element is the story.

 

KOTOR started with a great fast paced intro. It was great in that it was short and then you were thrust right into the action. I found Peragus somewhat boring at times. I especially liked all the little things like the arena and Bendak Starkiller.

 

Character interaction in the first game was driven by what point in the game you are at. The characters will randomly talk to you about themselves. In KOTOR2 on the otherhand you can do all the talking on the ship and you have to start the dialogue.

 

The planets in KOTOR seemed alive and I always felt like I was interating with people on them. In KOTOR2 it they seem empty and like I'm just doing this because I need to if I am going to finish the quest.

 

We had the nice Revan plot twist. It may have been obvious to some, but to me it was a suprize and I liked it enough to play through a few times.

 

The end of KOTOR was classic star wars. Some didn't feel it fit the game, but I enjoyed it a great deal. KOTOR2 left me feeling empty like how did I get here and why is this over already? Did I miss something?

 

Jolee > Kreia

 

HK4 = HK47

 

Carth < Atton

 

Bastila > Visas/Handmaiden

 

Mission = Mira

 

T3 = T3

 

Canderous = Mandalore

[Dragonforce]

both games suck at the start, taris was the single worst part of the game in the original and peragus was the same

[Darth Jebus]

The end of KOTOR was classic star wars.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Nuff said.

[hawk]

I'm one of those rare people who got their introduction to the KotOR world with The Sith Lords, and I was able to see II without any biases from having played I. Twas an experience that gave me a very unique viewpoint and I'll just tell you what I saw from my point of view from playing the two games backward.

 

Prepare for a long post...

 

Plot Advancement/Game design

The Sith Lords: Influence made finding out about characters prohibitively difficult. This aspect of the game wasn't intuitive enough such that the average gamer would be able to tell when and where to do what, in order to get what they wanted. It was a bad decision to base an important plot advancement aspect such as character background, on a device that didn't guarantee the gamer would be able to find out everything. Lots of "huh" moments cos of that.

 

One very interesting thing about the sequel was that light and dark side choices began to blur. You could select what you thought was a light side choice and dark side outcome could occur (e.g. giving the beggar on Nar Shadda money, and seeing him getting robbed cos of it).

 

Original: Gaining character backgrounds based on experience points was a good way to let the gamer know about the back stories in stages. This guaranteed the gamer would be able to find out everything, and also keep interest piqued throughout the game.

 

In this sense, it was good to keep things simple to avoid giving gamers a "huh" moment, which occured pretty often in TSL

 

I fully agree with you!

 

Bosses/Combat

The Sith Lords: Definitely more difficult than the original. The end game, where you fight on telos/ravager, has Mandalore as a forced character, which means that you're weaker cos he is non-Jedi. Not to mention, Malachor V, where you are forced to travel alone and where you face Storm Beasts that really threaten to whip your ass. I found those were much more difficult than the Sith army waiting in Trayus Academy and that was only the preliminary endgame!

 

Bosses were a walkover, however, except for Kreia and her lightsaber grandchildren.

 

I liked the feats. My TSL Guardian was more powerful than my original game Guardian.

 

Original: When I played the original's endgame I was like huh? I actually have a PARTY with me for the endgame? This is so easy compared to Malachor V/Trayus Academy, where I was saving every two rooms - I was that terrified of dying...

 

Malak and his Jedi grandchildren were so repetitive. It got boring after awhile cos I used my run-and-saber technique. Was a Guardian so I saved my precious Force Points for Master Speed.

 

I found Bastila reminiscent of Darth Sion (the resurrecting aspect) and also Kreia (a member of your party who becomes final boss aspect). I enjoyed turning Bastila to light side. That was the only combat aspect that I preferred over the sequel.

 

I didn't like the animations for feats, especially Force Wave. It was fine-tuned in the sequel and much better done there.

 

I don't agree! Why? Because in TSL combat is very easy due to the fact that you can level up almost endlessly and therefore pick so many force powers that IMO you have to many of them. In the original you had at least a level cap of 20 and a maximum of 18 force powers. That's a big difference. B.T.W., the Unknown Worls / Star forge is a way better end game then the Ravager and Malachor V. If you want a difficult endgame, try the Star Forge / Yavin Space Station ambush and The Black Rakata battle solo! Now, that's a tough battle!

 

Storyline

The Sith Lords: The writing is simply brilliant. Where the original failed in depth and dimensionality, the sequel succeeded in creating a dark, deeply disturbing and most importantly, resonant storyline. Who would have conceived of Force "wounds" and a final boss who was neither Jedi nor Sith (Kreia, who wants to get rid of the Force)? Here's where the game's ambitious complexity succeeded very well. The plot devices simply absorb you into the story. No one ridicules the storyline, it is only weakened by the ending. The game asks pertinent questions about light and dark as well as the Force itself, and gives them a depth that transforms these concepts into more than children's science mythology. George Lucas should shake in his Stormtrooper boots.

 

Original: The light side and dark side are flat, 2-dimensional concepts with a very clear line drawn between the two. Yawn. Boring. So Enid Blyton.

 

Bullsjit! It's a Star wars game we are playing. Besides, was it to obvious to you that you played Revan. Maybe, you knew because you first played TSL and then the Original but lot's of us where actually highly surprised.

Think about this. In the original, when you played it for the first time you had to wonder what this Star Forge actually was. You find out that you are Revan. What's that compared to a very predictable storyline: TSL: learning about the force, finding some Jedi Masters and finally (good points for this Obsidian) learning about what you actually are. Then sonfront some easy to beat Sith lords and a lot of Sith one week trainies who learned how to not hurt yourself with a lightsaber and strike one fully fledged Jedi.

True, the force and the lessons you can get from Kreia and force sight from Visas. The fact that you can train most of your characters as a Jedi, either light or dark is absolutely a good thing, but the storyline itself in TSL is way too predictable for my taste.

 

Characters

The Sith Lords: I far preferred the sequel in terms of characters. They somehow seem to resonate very deeply - and they provoke debate, as seen in the countless threads and polls on this forum.

 

They have a lot of depth and believability. I think this has to do with the absolutely superb voice acting and the superior writing. There are very few cheesy lines here and all characters are very 3-dimensional, like real people.

 

Original: I found the characters extremely 2-dimensional and flat. They felt forced, more like caricatures than real people. Not to mention the voice acting was terrible ESPECIALLY for Bastila Shan. Well admittedly she's probably the best looking female character out of both games, but her voice acting was terrible ("You cannot win, Revan" at the start was groan-inducing ) There were just cheesy lines galore.

 

That maybe your opinion but you do get to know much more about all of them. I always want to replay the original game with all the extra options TSL has (Item creation / Jedi training lessons, Random item generator etc. etc. etc.). The characters overall where much much better in Kotor I

 

Carth / Atton: Well, here I don't mind. If Atton's story is more than just his past and his Pazaak I would go for Atton. But as it is Carth has his trust problem, then his son and if you are female finally his love, I would go for Carth. Better and longer story for Bioware.

 

Kreia / Jolee: Jolee, all the way. But this is I guess because I like Jolee a lot better. His stories are good and I think he would make a good Jedi Master.

 

Juhani / Visas: If you could know a lot more about Visas, I would go for her but since you know much more about Juhani and the fact that her story is so much longer I go for Juhani

 

Mandalore / Canderous: Allthough its the same person, Canderous had again a much bigger story then Mandalore. Influence is just so very bugged in TSL!

 

That leaves: Bastila / Mission / Zaalbar versus Bao Dur / Mira / Handmaiden. Well, I don't think you can't really compare the people here but let's just say that only Brianna, Handmaidan had a good story and made a good second appearance in the Endgame she is the only one that can be compared to the sidequests of the original.

 

Romance

The Sith Lords: Do you ever think Obsidian MEANT for girls to hate Disciple and want Atton? It gives so much more depth to the story when you think of all the unresolved sexual tension between your character and Atton that is simply expressed in this one line in the entire game:

 

"If you ever think you're alone, play pazaak in your head because when you do, you'll be playing pazaak with me." 

 

Just ONE line can have worlds of meaning. Slam me for being a fangirl, but I think it's Obsidian's way of creating believable romantic tension.

 

I don't know about the male options though. I always played as LSF Guardian

 

Original: Carth's voice acting and line scripting were so bad that when he said "I love you" on the Unknown World, I nearly laughed out loud. It wasn't written well enough not to look cheesy and forced. There was never any feeling of romantic tension building, and suddenly wham, he thinks he loves you? Ugh. This is not Mills and Boon... Anyway, I think Atton was better looking than Carth. Carth's animation looked like crap.

 

That's your opinion again. Not mine. Atton's story again was far too short.

 

Conclusion

KotOR was revolutionary for its time, but TSL has taken it one notch higher in terms of sheer complexity and storytelling finesse. RPG games are all about the story, and while the original came up with a fantastic game engine, Obsidian has fine tuned it for a truly ambitious storytelling attempt where the original's story fell flat. Of course, this backfired in some ways e.g. the influence factor which over-complicated things and was not fine-tuned enough, as well as an ending that did not give a conclusive ending. Perhaps Obsidian merely wanted to add to the open-endedness and sense of mystery that pervaded the game? Who knows.

 

There may be some questionability about TSL's quality with regards to the cut endings, but when seen from the perspective of how it improved over the original, it's a really brilliant game. I absolutely prefer the sequel.

 

Now I'm all prepared to get slammed by the TSL-naysayers... ;P

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Yeah right, I have allready done. Some strong points for TSL are absolutely the Random Item generator, the many new Force powers from which some of them cannot be pickup up from the level up menu. That's good! If only Breath Control would also work in the Royal Palace it is good.

And, O yes I absolutely love Force Sight!

The workbenches and Lab Stations where you can create / break down items. The Prestige Classes, the changing alignments of your NPC's. The Lightsaber styles / Force forms etc. O yes, TSL for gameplay is great. But the points you have described are just the points where TSL fails mostly against the original.

 

Maybe you think of me as a TSL naysayer but I do have to say that both games have good points, but it's just the person behind the computer who desides wether he/she liked the original / TSL better. For me, the original comes out on top.

[Lord Tarondor]

TSL is bad for its additions outside of the workbench/med lab but even those two are flawed. Item worth when breaking down is a waste of a good item or item since you can generally just sell it for a mess of credits, buy a plethora of Advandced Medpacs and breaking down which is so much cheaper

 

The Force Powers added are silly because 1] You aren't the Chosen One or Luke Skywalker and 2] This is thinking on your feet, constantly in motion, no time to 'train' sort of Star Wars playing.

 

You can be Master Yoda in a game which takes place in no more than one year of time -- Yoda's f'ing 900 years old; you're given too many options for power, too many Force Feats which is 'unrealistic' Star Wars canon-wise and deadens the realism you feel when you're placed into the position of the Exile. KoTOR'1 while it is up the same alley, has only the basic Force Powers -- stun droid, heal, jump, run, lightning and choke which gives it that movie-like feel.

 

With all the powers you get in KoTOR'2, the game is unenjoyable because the greatest challenge comes when you're Atton Rand on Nar Shadaa and only because you haven't spent time developing the character. Even when sticking to Light Side when getting powers, making decisions, and not purchasing at all and doing the noble thing constantly, the game is easy. With the Dark Side (or Light Side with purchasing/selling), you have 60,000 credits by the end of the first planet after Telos unless you do the Sith Homeworld first.

 

Furthermore, the game is *riddled* with descreprencies filled with plot holes and when all's said and done, I felt like I had wasted a whole lotta time for mumbo-jumbo bull**** which would make Alec Guinness cry in anguish (The same type of mumbo-jumbo bull**** that got Obi-Wan killed off earlier than he was supposed to be). All the discussion of bonds, of echoes, and of past -- for what?

 

A dumb ending I will blame Obsidian for.

 

They're a rookie company trying to contend with LucasArts -- I blame the rookie company. Which brings up my next point:

 

I'm tired of George Lucas-bashing and I'm tired of LucasArts-bashing; shut the bloody hell up if you do not like it; it's their f'ing merchandise, its his f'ing movie and he can do what he f'ing wants, call whatever shots he wants concering canon, if he so deem it, make Yoda die in the third movie despite the five and six having him in it! I'm tired of people passing judgment w/o realising these movies aren't for twenty-year old die hards who argue over stupid things like whether or not Han shot first or sixteen-year olds who are trying to act cool by dissing him just cause. These movies aren't for you -- they're for kids and always haven been.

 

You may not like how simple it is to find out the bad guys who are supposed to be secretive or like the Gungans or Ewoks but kids love'em -- my nephews and nieces adore Jar Jar and they didn't even know Emperor Palpatine was evil until they watched V when they were over. Its basic evil versus good, and considering its audience (I wonder why its PG :rollseyes:), its good. Its like saying HP sucks because its too kiddy -- its for bloody kids. Oddly enough, both garner adult and teen attention because its interesting, easy to follow, and entertaining above all.

 

Getting back on track, Obsidian was given a damn deadline, undoubtedly, and you know what? They couldn't meet it with a good game. No one ever takes LucasArts's issues in though, either. No one might think that George Lucas is wanting to make it easier for all three departments by moving them together to one locale and in the process they had to cut not only the KoTOR III team but also the deadline.

 

I pass the 'blame' so to speak on Obsidian, who was handed the Oddessy Engine which was perfect for now since its storyline that drives RPGs, not always great graphics; handed a storyline which could write itself in its sleep; handed returning voice actors/actresses of a calibre -- they produced half-assed, mumbo-jumbo ****.

 

This game, when boiled down, is an expansion and all I can point to is the fact that Blizzard Ent. and Sony Online Ent. are capable of adding expansions with not only new items but new systems that are for more complex than the workbench options as well as a new plot that at least strives to be different from what its expanding on. They crank these out in generally 6-12 months of the 'original's' release and are, oddly enough, filled with less bugs and issues than KoTOR'2.

 

I won't be calling TSL its own game because its not a game -- its half of one and its an expansion to KoTOR that builds on to its story but doesn't really drive it forward. Hell, I found out more about the events that took place in the first in the second than I did in the first -- it made the main character of the first all the more godlier.

 

Case and point? TSL is trash and a waste of a full-game. It should have been an expansion for

[vadrillan]

My opinion:

KotOR is a more consistent, rounded game. It had harder combat.

 

TSLs good points were very good- more complicated story, better implementation of certain feats, crafting items etc....but it's bad points were very bad (you should know what I mean). Combat was much easier.

 

I like them roughly equally as a result. KotOR's a good old Jedi romp, whereas TSL is harder work but equally rewarding.

[Blaise Russel]

it's just the person behind the computer who desides wether he/she liked the original / TSL better.

 

Good god, sir, I don't know what I'd do without you.

 

What drives the few people who like it to support it with such a radical hatred is the un-Star Wars like characters. They aren't the classy Star Wars type nor the struggling worker type also familiar in its universe

 

I've never understood this point.

 

No, TSL is not Star-Warsy. Why is this a problem? Are you incapable of enjoying both epic romantic hero tales and dark, ambiguous, gritty, philosophical stories?

 

Inadvisable to let fanboyism blind you to greater varieties of entertainment, I say.

 

 

 

Oh,

 

classy Star Wars type

 

hahaha.

[Lord Tarondor]

I play all types of games and I can enjoy what type of game it is but the characters sucked and it not being of Star Wars class is just one additional thing, that if not counted, would still leave a crappy game with crappy characters .

[Influence]

Good post, im glad someone is on my side, I played the KOTOR games in order and I do think the second one is better, longer, and smoother (both animations and storyline).

 

I really think TSL would be one of the best rpg's of all time had it been FINISHED. I proposed that Obsidian finish the game, put in the full Korriban world, polish the storyline, get a better ending, and focus a little more on what happend to the Jedi Council, Atris, Your Party and, why Atris fell and to what extent

 

As i recall Kreai kills the Jedi council but then when I met Atris on Telos at the end I told her that i would let the Jedi Council come up with a punishment.

 

I mean the game was excellent but once u returned to Dantooine to meet the Council it went to fast and all that rich and sophisticated building up of the stopryline came to an end too fast, to sloppily, and too confusingly. It is a crime agaisnt humanity those developers worked so hard and did such a great job but it just was not finished and it disgusts me.

 

Which is a shame because i think many people do not appreciate how amazing that storyline nor to they realize how great it could have been had it not been cut due to the developers time restraint.

 

But I digress, they shoudl finsih teh game release it in six months, and call it TSL Redux. Finish that puppy up and im not jsut talking about a computer expansion update casue that jsut fixes bugs and adds items and screws over Xbox Owners.

 

But anyway... TSL is teh better game, people just fail to realize it because of teh bad taste it left in many gamers mouthes.

 

P.S. I did not realize how great TSL was until my second playthrough. BUt i never ofund Jedi Kight or Jedi Master robes in TSL and that pissed me off BIG time. I wanted like a Blue robe like we had in KOTOR I, but a little more flowing Fabirc.

[Influence]

My opinion:

KotOR is a more consistent, rounded game. It had harder combat.

 

TSLs good points were very good- more complicated story, better implementation of certain feats, crafting items etc....but it's bad points were very bad (you should know what I mean). Combat was much easier.

 

I like them roughly equally as a result. KotOR's a good old Jedi romp, whereas TSL is harder work but equally rewarding.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Umm i fully disagree the TSL combat was more complex and there were more overall enemies. I just wish we could have fought more Daker Jedi and Sith Lords.

 

P.S. The TSL storylien is obviously better because i think it is a greater and deeper conversation peice, much more interesting and makes u play teh game multiple times to grasp it. I mean look at all teh topics that talk aobut the storyline, people discuss TSL storylien WAY more than KOTOR I casue their is only one piece of complexity in Kotor i, Your PC beign Revan, thats about it. TSL is ten times deeper ,ten times more involved, and ten times more interesting than KOTOR I.

[Jivin]

Characters

The Sith Lords: I far preferred the sequel in terms of characters. They somehow seem to resonate very deeply - and they provoke debate, as seen in the countless threads and polls on this forum.

 

They have a lot of depth and believability. I think this has to do with the absolutely superb voice acting and the superior writing. There are very few cheesy lines here and all characters are very 3-dimensional, like real people.

 

I couldn't agree with you more here, and I can't help but think the way this was written in KOTOR2 was very deliberate, and was done this way to give the characters a different kind of depth. At least a few of the characters dont slap you in the face with all they have to offer... instead they give you the surface of their personality, and you have to dig deeper (both in your mind and in the game) to discover the detail about the characters. I would go as far as to say some of the characters do nothing less that -inspire- you to dig deeper... but of course that will differ from person to person.

 

From what I have seen of KOTOR1, the characters still have a good level of depth, but it requires less... mindpower (for the lack of a better, or more existant word ). It appears in kotor1 that all of the character depth is sitting right there in front of you, you just need to progressively peel back the layers. I can understand that some people may prefer that, but personally, having a great interest in the psychology of it all, I find it much more appealing that TSL characters were so thought provoking (and I have an inkling that this very difference is what deep down affects a lot of people). I am only 8 hours into KOTOR1 however, so I cannot comment too much on my preference ala kotor1 vs kotor2.

 

By the way, great post bluerosy - I enjoyed reading it, and the responses it has provoked are equally interesting! (well most of them)

 

- Dan

 

PS: Bluerosy - Now that I think about it, it would be wonderful if you wouldnt mind checking out my post regarding characters (specifically visas) here: and perhaps add your thoughts/opinions? I'm curious to get some other viewpoints from people who share a similar beleif regarding the character depth. I would appreciate it if you could

[Lord Satasn]

it's just the person behind the computer who desides wether he/she liked the original / TSL better.

 

Good god, sir, I don't know what I'd do without you.

 

What drives the few people who like it to support it with such a radical hatred is the un-Star Wars like characters. They aren't the classy Star Wars type nor the struggling worker type also familiar in its universe

 

I've never understood this point.

 

No, TSL is not Star-Warsy. Why is this a problem? Are you incapable of enjoying both epic romantic hero tales and dark, ambiguous, gritty, philosophical stories?

 

Inadvisable to let fanboyism blind you to greater varieties of entertainment, I say.

 

 

 

Oh,

 

classy Star Wars type

 

hahaha.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Revenge of the Sith is going to Rock your fanboys worlds, and forever change the view of "star wars" feel....in a good way or a bad way...it will change.....and darkness will be accepted...

[bluerosy]

PS: Bluerosy - Now that I think about it, it would be wonderful if you wouldnt mind checking out my post regarding characters (specifically visas) here: and perhaps add your thoughts/opinions?  I'm curious to get some other viewpoints from people who share a similar beleif regarding the character depth.  I would appreciate it if you could

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Replied!

 

Here's my post here for reference.

 

Hey Dan, I need to replay II to refresh certain aspects of it in my mind, esp for Visas. I was more interested in the Disciple/Atton problem and cos I never played Male, I never got to see as much of Visas as the Male players did. Gonna playthrough again soon as LSM, just to find out all I missed from the first time around. I'll let you know once I've done that and formed an opinion on it.

 

I do remember bringing her along with me on Onderon, and losing influence with her because I chose Queen Talia over Vaklu the ass. I really didn't like that

 

But I really agree with you on how Obsidian structured the characters in a very interesting way, with the top layer given and the rest left to you to find out or figure out. The influence device made things very frustrating to gain information but it added stunningly to the believability of the characters.

 

I especially admire the way the writing left a lot of us to figure things out. Look at the numerous posts on this board regarding the story.

 

It made TSL a thinking game, in a very un-Star Wars style. It has totally reinvented the spirit of Star Wars - in many ways TSL is an extremely sophisticated game for adults, in a way the entire StarWars franchise is a more simple story targetted at a General audience.

 

I hope Obsidian tries again, with a longer deadline. If Obsidian does KotOR III and it comes out in like 2 years time I really don't mind. I'll be the first one in line to buy it

[kalimeeri]

Don't compare them. Take them as parts of a trilogy, and the differences make sense.

 

K1 could not AFFORD the luxury of introspection. It had to pull you into an epic saga and deliver enough backstory to build a foundation, all the while making it feel like an exciting personal journey with characters you care about. A tall order. And it succeeded, even though Bioware had to take into account the possibility that it would be a stand-alone game, depending on sales.

 

K2 is the middle installment. Typically, it can take more time and go deeper, because the foundation is already laid. It only has to build on it. It can add a new character(s), if that is a critical part of the resolution; it fills in some blanks and adds a few complications. Just the fact that it doesn't significantly forward the original plot adds suspense and anticipation for the final installment.

 

K3 basically only has to uphold the story and go for the gold. But that isn't going to be simple, by any means. There's a lot to live up to, from both prior segments.

 

I don't care awfully much whether they adhere to the fictional Star Wars universe to the last detail. I think I lost most of my investment in that over time and the latest SW movie flops. Kotor can stand on its own, and I feel much the same about K3 as I did waiting for ROTK to come out.

[Jivin]

Great post, I see your point, and its very valid... I hadn't considered that angle up until now.

 

 

- Dan

[Lord Pahakala]

Sorry, but I didn't read whole thread before posting. Well, anyway...

 

I like both KotOR and KotOR 2. THey both have something that works really well.

 

Ofcourse first part didn't have all those fancy things as influence and all the other things like giving beggar some money so that he could get mugged.

 

Anyway, as a game experience, both were great. Only thing botherin me, is that second one didn't have any good closure like first one did. I mean, first one's ending tells what happens, but second one's doesn't, atleast not so clearly...

 

Dman, I played first KotOR through just to see the ending. Yea, I could have easilly go to check the movies in main menu, but what's the fun in there? Ending in KotOR 2 just left me cold and I was just WTF!?

 

Okay, there's much to it. If Obsidian would have finished their work... No, I shouldn't blame Obsidian, it was the Lucas Arts and their death lines, damn. Well, much of the content left experienced and that sucks.

 

Final words: I could compare the ending in KotOR 2 to Halo 2. My thoughts were exactly same: Now I need to wait for the third one.

I didn't have that feeling when I played KotOR 1, and that was good. I wan't sequels to come as surprise, not by force.