Bioware > Obsidian

[Drakron]

I have just one comment.

 

KotOR is Star Wars, TSL is not.

[Kissamies]

So TSL is too good to be Star Wars? I think TSL doesn't feel like "Canonical Star Wars", but it fits the "EU Star Wars" category.

[GhostofAnakin]

So TSL is too good to be Star Wars? I think TSL doesn't feel like "Canonical Star Wars", but it fits the "EU Star Wars" category.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Haha yeah, based on some of the drivel that is considered EU canon, it's a bit amusing to hear that TSL doesn't fit the SW story.

 

Although I do agree with the numbers man in his comments.

[Archangel]

well, each one has his own opinion, for me, kotor 1 was one of the best game I've ever played, much better story, much better graphics, the portrait of your own character is more detailed (just compare the characters in kotor 1 and 2), I'll give an opportunity to Obsidian 'cause they had a very short time to make this game, Atari is not like LA, so NWN 2 should be great

[Drakron]

So TSL is too good to be Star Wars? I think TSL doesn't feel like "Canonical Star Wars", but it fits the "EU Star Wars" category.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Too good ... yes, to a point.

 

Star Wars is a classic B movie, any overall complicated theme will simply be lost on what is a universe of absolute morality.

 

I am not going to deal with the whole EU since KotOR series is too busy ignoring it, if it failed to have that Star Wars feeling and still fitting with EU continuity then I would pointed that out but since it does not ...

 

Besides the ending of TSL is incomplete and simply have too many loose ends, KotOR might be "simpler" but at least it have a proper ending.

[mastah vandah]

Ok, I would like to point out something:

 

How can we possibly determine " oh this has a SW 'feeling' and this doesn't?" i mean, in my opinion, KOTOR 2 is credible as well as KOTOR in terms of being canonical because what was revealed in the movies whether it is about the return of the sith through darth Sedious up until anakin's redemption, is just a speck of events in a very complex universe...just because there was no jedi that caused a wound in the force during the original trilogy it doesn't mean it should all be regarded as "oh well, that doesnt have the SW feeling" or "that doesnt make sense. As far as the storyline, I don't understand why so many people are having a problem with KOTOR 2's because it is a complex story and it requires you to master many aspects of features newly introduced into the sequel so that you can get parts of the story and then put it together...what could be more engaging than this??? I mean seriously, it's a very interesting story even though i have to absolutely agree that the ending should have been more satisfying.

 

Just because the ending might have sucked,it doesnt mean the story leading up to it sucked or that it didnt "feel" like Star Wars. TO ME IT FELT BETTER THAN THE PREQUEL TRILOGY AND THE SMALL EXPLORATION OF WORLDS AND CONCEPTS DONE BY THE ORIGINAL TRILOGY ITSELF.

[Judge Hades]

Bioware better than Obsidian? Hell freaking no. Every Bioware game that has come out has been a predictable piece and very shallow and poor writing, very much unlike Obsidian and former BIS games.

[Dolphin]

TO ME IT FELT BETTER THAN THE PREQUEL TRILOGY AND THE SMALL EXPLORATION OF WORLDS AND CONCEPTS DONE BY THE ORIGINAL TRILOGY ITSELF.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

The only material I saw in the game that seemed "inspired" by the original trilogy was all the ripped-off lines from the movies. So many times I caught myself thinking, "Hey, I've heard those exact words before. Where? Oh yeah, Empire!"

[Judge Hades]

I find myself falling asleep watching Star Wars nowadays.

[mastah vandah]

TO ME IT FELT BETTER THAN THE PREQUEL TRILOGY AND THE SMALL EXPLORATION OF WORLDS AND CONCEPTS DONE BY THE ORIGINAL TRILOGY ITSELF.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

The only material I saw in the game that seemed "inspired" by the original trilogy was all the ripped-off lines from the movies. So many times I caught myself thinking, "Hey, I've heard those exact words before. Where? Oh yeah, Empire!"

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

All i'm saying is that the KOTOR series are more complex and have deeper meaning to their plots than the trilogy, thus it makes the KOTOR games more appealing to me and the fact that i get to interact with the story?? what more do you want? (besides a better ending, that's a given)

[Baneblade]

Bioware better than Obsidian?  Hell freaking no.  Every Bioware game that has come out has been a predictable piece and very shallow and poor writing, very much unlike Obsidian and former BIS games.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Funny, sence this is how I would describe the storyline of KotOR II:TSL.

 

And lets face it, If KotOR's Storyline was a copy from NWN OC then KotOR II is the bastard child of PS:T.

[racofer]

IMO what most of you guys are forgeting is that its not about how good the plot was, how obvious or not the story was, neither how complex or not creating items should be .... none of these matters for such game.

 

IT'S Star Wars, and it should feel like you were in the SW universe. The 1st game was much more like the movies, simple and deep. You felt like you were the main character in that game, and IMO, thats what a RPG should make you feel. Its about you being part of the story.

 

In KOTOR2, it was so complex, so full of details that it makes you pay more atention to such "details" than the game itself. I felt like watching a long and boring Star TREK (the new ones... in the original movies with Kirk were way funnier) movie instead. So full of principles and morals, right and wrong.. blah! My fun factor with Kotor2 was almost zero. I kept playing it only with hope the end was holding a big surprise... and it did! It sucked bad!!!

 

Star Wars is simple, and that made it good. It's a galaxy far far away, remember? I don't want it to feel like all these Sci-Fi movies full of scientists with their theories about everything, nor those "cowboys" with laser guns killing half the galaxy to prove how bad they can be, NEITHER a complex RPG.

[mastah vandah]

Bioware better than Obsidian?  Hell freaking no.  Every Bioware game that has come out has been a predictable piece and very shallow and poor writing, very much unlike Obsidian and former BIS games.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Funny, sence this is how I would describe the storyline of KotOR II:TSL.

 

And lets face it, If KotOR's Storyline was a copy from NWN OC then KotOR II is the bastard child of PS:T.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I'm impressed you actually implied that KOTOR 2's story is predictable and shallow...wow you must have been able to really anticipate:

 

- The story of all the companions, EVERY DETAIL the first time through by maxing out the influence system.

- How you got to Peragus mining facility and why

- You must have predicted all to well that the jedi masters would try and strip the force from the exile again

- that you were going to end up on malachor v halfway through the game

-Kreia manipulating you during the whole game for her own ends.

 

Dont call it shallow...because everyone in this forum liking it or not, knows it isnt. That's why people were wondering what happened when they got to Malachor V the first time through

[Von Manstein]

I think TSL had the ability to become a much greater game than KotOR. Especially the story-line. The detail was there, the originality was there (what happens when the force is stripped from someone? The intricacies of the Master - Apprentice relationship, etc.) but the delivery was poor and fragmented, so the game felt like the remains of a great narrative that was chopped to pieces, left unclarified in critical points and ultimately left unfinished. So, as far as I'm concerned, the story-line in TSL was superior, but shot down by it's delivery, leaving the gamer for most of the game confused and in a state of disjointed purgatory in regards to what they're supposed to be doing and where they are meant to go.KotOR had a simpler, more Star Wars-ie story-line, which, although not as complex and interesting as TSL's, was pulled off so cleanly and tightly that I was more engaged in the original than the sequel.

 

I think Obsidian has the ability to forge a far greater narrative for their games than Bioware, they just need more favourable conditions.

[mastah vandah]

IMO what most of you guys are forgeting is that its not about how good the plot was, how obvious or not the story was, neither how complex or not creating items should be .... none of these matters for such game.

 

IT'S Star Wars,  and it should feel like you were in the SW universe. The 1st game was much more like the movies, simple and deep. You felt like you were the main character in that game, and IMO, thats what a RPG should make you feel. Its about you being part of the story.

 

In KOTOR2, it was so complex, so full of details that it makes you pay more atention to such "details" than the game itself. I felt like watching a long and boring Star TREK (the new ones... in the original movies with Kirk were way funnier) movie instead. So full of principles and morals, right and wrong.. blah! My fun factor with Kotor2 was almost zero. I kept playing it only with hope the end was holding a big surprise... and it did! It sucked bad!!!

 

Star Wars is simple, and that made it good. It's a galaxy far far away, remember? I don't want it to feel like all these Sci-Fi movies full of scientists with their theories about everything, nor those "cowboys" with laser guns killing half the galaxy to prove how bad they can be, NEITHER a complex RPG.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

I believe a complex RPG is what makes it fun and also makes you wanna keep playing it.

[FaramirK]

Bioware better than Obsidian?  Hell freaking no.  Every Bioware game that has come out has been a predictable piece and very shallow and poor writing, very much unlike Obsidian and former BIS games.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Funny, sence this is how I would describe the storyline of KotOR II:TSL.

 

And lets face it, If KotOR's Storyline was a copy from NWN OC then KotOR II is the bastard child of PS:T.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I'm impressed you actually implied that KOTOR 2's story is predictable and shallow...wow you must have been able to really anticipate:

 

SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER

 

Dont call it shallow...because everyone in this forum liking it or not, knows it isnt. That's why people were wondering what happened when they got to Malachor V the first time through

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

What is wrong with you? Stop with your spoiling, hell-fiend.

[mastah vandah]

I think TSL had the ability to become a much greater game than KotOR. Especially the story-line. The detail was there, the originality was there (what happens when the force is stripped from someone? The intricacies of the Master - Apprentice relationship, etc.) but the delivery was poor and fragmented, so the game felt like the remains of a great narrative that was chopped to pieces, left unclarified in critical points and ultimately left unfinished. So, as far as I'm concerned, the story-line in TSL was superior, but shot down by it's delivery, leaving the gamer for most of the game confused and in a state of disjointed purgatory in regards to what they're supposed to be doing and where they are meant to go.KotOR had a simpler, more Star Wars-ie story-line, which, although not as complex and interesting as TSL's, was pulled off so cleanly and tightly that I was more engaged in the original than the sequel.

 

I think Obsidian has the ability to forge a far greater narrative for their games than Bioware, they just need more favourable conditions.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

and you make a valuable point

[mastah vandah]

Bioware better than Obsidian?  Hell freaking no.  Every Bioware game that has come out has been a predictable piece and very shallow and poor writing, very much unlike Obsidian and former BIS games.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Funny, sence this is how I would describe the storyline of KotOR II:TSL.

 

And lets face it, If KotOR's Storyline was a copy from NWN OC then KotOR II is the bastard child of PS:T.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I'm impressed you actually implied that KOTOR 2's story is predictable and shallow...wow you must have been able to really anticipate:

 

SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER

 

Dont call it shallow...because everyone in this forum liking it or not, knows it isnt. That's why people were wondering what happened when they got to Malachor V the first time through

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

What is wrong with you? Stop with your spoiling, hell-fiend.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

ok, your reply with a quote from me had nothing to do with a point that i tried to make so that was your first mistake.

 

your second mistake was that you failed to realize we are discussing STORYTELLING and whether they did a good job with it or not, thus it makes it obvious there are possibilities of spoilers being written in this thread...

 

but then again...once you werent really bright enough to find that out for yourself

 

Do this:

 

Turn off you computer

GROW UP

Don't ever bother me again

[racofer]

IMO what most of you guys are forgeting is that its not about how good the plot was, how obvious or not the story was, neither how complex or not creating items should be .... none of these matters for such game.

 

IT'S Star Wars,  and it should feel like you were in the SW universe. The 1st game was much more like the movies, simple and deep. You felt like you were the main character in that game, and IMO, thats what a RPG should make you feel. Its about you being part of the story.

 

In KOTOR2, it was so complex, so full of details that it makes you pay more atention to such "details" than the game itself. I felt like watching a long and boring Star TREK (the new ones... in the original movies with Kirk were way funnier) movie instead. So full of principles and morals, right and wrong.. blah! My fun factor with Kotor2 was almost zero. I kept playing it only with hope the end was holding a big surprise... and it did! It sucked bad!!!

 

Star Wars is simple, and that made it good. It's a galaxy far far away, remember? I don't want it to feel like all these Sci-Fi movies full of scientists with their theories about everything, nor those "cowboys" with laser guns killing half the galaxy to prove how bad they can be, NEITHER a complex RPG.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

I believe a complex RPG is what makes it fun and also makes you wanna keep playing it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Sorry, I belive I wasn't clear with the "NEITHER a complex RPG" part. It should be like "NEITHER a way too complex RPG" , my fault " , I like complex RPG's

[mastah vandah]

IMO what most of you guys are forgeting is that its not about how good the plot was, how obvious or not the story was, neither how complex or not creating items should be .... none of these matters for such game.

 

IT'S Star Wars,  and it should feel like you were in the SW universe. The 1st game was much more like the movies, simple and deep. You felt like you were the main character in that game, and IMO, thats what a RPG should make you feel. Its about you being part of the story.

 

In KOTOR2, it was so complex, so full of details that it makes you pay more atention to such "details" than the game itself. I felt like watching a long and boring Star TREK (the new ones... in the original movies with Kirk were way funnier) movie instead. So full of principles and morals, right and wrong.. blah! My fun factor with Kotor2 was almost zero. I kept playing it only with hope the end was holding a big surprise... and it did! It sucked bad!!!

 

Star Wars is simple, and that made it good. It's a galaxy far far away, remember? I don't want it to feel like all these Sci-Fi movies full of scientists with their theories about everything, nor those "cowboys" with laser guns killing half the galaxy to prove how bad they can be, NEITHER a complex RPG.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

I believe a complex RPG is what makes it fun and also makes you wanna keep playing it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Sorry, I belive I wasn't clear with the "NEITHER a complex RPG" part. It should be like "NEITHER a way too complex RPG" , my fault " , I like complex RPG's

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

i get ya hehe :D

[Baneblade]

I'm impressed you actually implied that KOTOR 2's story is predictable and shallow...wow you must have been able to really anticipate:

 

- The story of all the companions, EVERY DETAIL the first time through by maxing out the influence system.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

The backstories of NPC in your group, have nothing to do with the main plotline/Storyarc of KotOR II.

 

- How you got to Peragus mining facility and why

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Insignificant event in the main plot.

 

- You must have predicted all to well that the jedi masters would try and strip the force from the exile again

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Yes, this I *Knew* before entering the re-build academy.

 

- that you were going to end up on malachor v halfway through the game

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Yes, every dialogue with kreia seemed to point there..

 

-Kreia manipulating you during the whole game for her own ends.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

This was obvious from the first few talks you had with her when escaping Peragus.

 

Dont call it shallow...because everyone in this forum liking it or not, knows it isnt. That's why people were wondering what happened when they got to Malachor V the first time through

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I call it as I see it.

 

Know, that not everyone sees the things as you do.

you liked it, fine, I didn't.

 

Deal with it....

I have.

[Swinny]

ahh cant beat a heated debate... :D

 

i think you guys should lay off obsidian, for their 1st game they had 1 year to make the sequal to 2003's best game, i think they did brilliantly, if anyone is to blame its LUCASARTS.

 

kotor1 felt more star wars on a light scale, kotor2 on a dark scale (ala ep4 and 5)

 

anyways, if the ending had been correct on kotor2 everyone here would be wanking over how good it is.

 

and all you people who come here and say 'ohhh i hate kotor 2, im gonna kill obsidian' - i'm willing to bet money youve played kotor2 like, 3 or 4 times, so you do like it, just stop claiming you dont.

 

so lets just all sit back, congradulate Ob on a fantasticly done job, lets all 'blame' lucasarts for their crappyness, and i personally hope Ob do kotor3, on their own terms, so they can have all the time they want

[mastah vandah]

I'm impressed you actually implied that KOTOR 2's story is predictable and shallow...wow you must have been able to really anticipate:

 

- The story of all the companions, EVERY DETAIL the first time through by maxing out the influence system.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

The backstories of NPC in your group, have nothing to do with the main plotline/Storyarc of KotOR II.

 

- How you got to Peragus mining facility and why

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Insignificant event in the main plot.

 

- You must have predicted all to well that the jedi masters would try and strip the force from the exile again

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Yes, this I *Knew* before entering the re-build academy.

 

- that you were going to end up on malachor v halfway through the game

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Yes, every dialogue with kreia seemed to point there..

 

-Kreia manipulating you during the whole game for her own ends.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

This was obvious from the first few talks you had with her when escaping Peragus.

 

Dont call it shallow...because everyone in this forum liking it or not, knows it isnt. That's why people were wondering what happened when they got to Malachor V the first time through

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I call it as I see it.

 

Know, that not everyone sees the things as you do.

you liked it, fine, I didn't.

 

Deal with it....

I have.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Fair enough. Your experience during the game might have been very different from mine and other poeple that's fine. Doesnt mean it is shallow, but just humor me: you said some of the things were irrelevant to the main plot, that is still part of the story. If you want to be selective about what you call part of the story or not...be my guest, of course if you consider only certain things relevant in the game that might make it shallow.

 

Btw, Kreia doesnt make you believe she used you because you are not even aware of the whole wound in the force deal, all you know was that you were exiled. Now if you played LS the first time through, after proving to each Jedi Master you find how you have changed, its hard to anticipate that they would wanna do anything bad to you specially because they needed all the jedi they could get to fight against the Sith Lords.

 

Look, all i'm saying is that i dont have a problem with the fact that you shared your opinion, but if you go through the story...you know it isn't shallow..perhaps a little more predictable to you...

 

and im just trying to have a conversation here, no offense intended

[Archangel]

you've forgot that kotor 1 seems much better in graphics... just look at the sparks of fire in the beginning of the game, looks like nintendo lol

[mastah vandah]

ahh cant beat a heated debate... :D

 

i think you guys should lay off obsidian, for their 1st game they had 1 year to make the sequal to 2003's best game, i think they did brilliantly, if anyone is to blame its LUCASARTS.

 

kotor1 felt more star wars on a light scale, kotor2 on a dark scale (ala ep4 and 5)

 

anyways, if the ending had been correct on kotor2 everyone here would be wanking over how good it is.

 

and all you people who come here and say 'ohhh i hate kotor 2, im gonna kill obsidian' -    i'm willing to bet money youve played kotor2 like, 3 or 4 times, so you do like it, just stop claiming you dont.

 

so lets just all sit back, congradulate Ob on a fantasticly done job, lets all 'blame' lucasarts for their crappyness, and i personally hope Ob do kotor3, on their own terms, so they can have all the time they want

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Sounds good to me...hehe