what is kreia's true aim?

[Zilod]

But what happened to Ben? He got a little wobbily for a minute or two, maybe a headache?

 

I just don't see that as even in the same game as what the Exile experienced...

yes i agree with that i'm just using Ben example because it have some similarity, he can feel the screams of people that is dieing and he do it by the force.

 

then i agree that the situation is very different

 

Ben is really distant, in hyperspace, and Alderan was not one a dark place like malachor.

 

Think at malachor like a sort of amplifier, it feed on the screams and death just to relase them distorted and 100 times louder with such an strenght and horror that no one near it can resist.

[witchzenka]

The big difference is the Exile's unconsious Force Bonding with everyone else - that's why the deaths hit him/her so very much harder - they were deaths of those he or she was bonded with.

[Zilod]

The big difference is the Exile's unconsious Force Bonding with everyone else - that's why the deaths hit him/her so very much harder - they were deaths of those he or she was bonded with.

 

I think too that the Exile felt it greater than others due to his bounds, but i prefer to not push it too much, during the game we don't know too much about them and in some dialogued (expecially the one with Visas) they don't seem even to exist.

 

also the point here was more the "normal" jedi one and how other force senitive felt the deaths of people crashing on malachor and of the corruption of malachor itself that ended up in their final corruption or death.

[Gelfling]

I get the impression that the deaths at Malachor (and the deaths at Alderaan), caused a 'sound' in the Force that is really more of an emotional pain, rather than physical. If most of the Jedi who were fighting in the war had chosen to do so for emotional reasons, they would have already been a bit unstable from a Jedi Code point-of-view; MalV probably tripped their emotion circuit breakers, so to speak. The cascade of emotions that would likely ensue would have nudged most of the Jedi over to the dark side.

 

Because of all the bonds, the Exile must have felt the physical pain of having a bonded partner die times thousands before the emotional pain even had a chance to register. His/her survival instinct kicked in and cut off access to the Force, somehow, and apparently that's enough to make him/her a player character.

 

I haven't quite worked out how that makes the Exile a black hole of the Force, though.

[Wycked]

The cavalry will try to explain it

 

The Exile easily forms bonds with people around him (Willy-Nilly ), feeling the weight of their lives on him (probably not as strong as his bond with Kreia, though). When all the Mandalorians and Republicans died on Malachor V, the Exile felt it.

 

All those deaths were like a scream in the force, that was too powerful for the Exile because of his bonds. It was so powerful he couldnt hear the force through it, and it threatened to kill him, so he cut himself off from the force to survive.

 

The point is, the Exile didnt just block himself from the force, he cut himself so completely that the Force was connected to him at all. The Force flows through all living beings, but no longer through the Exile. That makes him a wound in the force, like stripping a piece of skin from a guy's arm.

 

Other Jedi didnt face what the Exile did, since they dont make such bonds. They all either died, or joined the dark side by following Revan. I think Revan was corrupting Jedi during the Mandalorian Wars, and probably using the war itself to corrupt them like that. It's obvious though, from what Kreia says, that he is using some ancient Sith site of Dark Power to corrupt them. Whether that site is Malachor V stands in question, since the planet is on constant danger of being sent into a gravinational oblivion - so maybe Revan left Malachor when he intended to destroy it, or maybe he used a different but similiar site.

 

As for Exile, for whatever reason (when I played LS, Kreia says it's because he was afraid, but I dont know about DS), left Revan, the Wars and the Force.

 

Because the Exile was a dead spot in the Force, where it's will can be denied, Kreia decided to train him and make him powerful.

 

Kreia's true intent is very vague, however. Atris claims she wants to make everyone deaf to the force, and end all life as a result, but that could be just a lie Kreia made her believe in so she will send Exile after her to Malachor V.

 

Kreia herself never mentions any plans of making everyone deaf to the force, even though she'd really like that to happen. I think she knew well enough it was beyond her abilities to defean the galaxies to the force, no matter how much she wanted it. As I understand, her only goal was to train the Exile with her own teachings. Kreia mentions after her defeat on Trayus that the Exile has done all that she wanted him to - It's all about the Exile, as the living example of defying the Force. Destroying the Sith and the Jedi does not mean destroying the Force and Kreia should've known that well enough - whatever reason she had to use the Exile to destroy the Sith and Jedi was not to destroy the Force, she's not a fool.

 

In short, Kreia's ultimate goal was teaching the Exile, someone who was free from the Force. She loved the Exile because he was not bound to the Force's will, and focused everything she did on him.

[Zilod]

is malachor she didn't say the name but is quite obvious...

 

"there is a place in the galaxy where the dark side of the force runs strong, is something of the siths but it was fuelled by war"

 

malachor is a dark place, there is a sith academy there

in the last battle it is also fuelled by war

 

"the mandalorian wars where a series of massacres to mask another war, a war of conversion"

 

now she is speaking about the war... and about the conversion

 

"culminating in a final atrocity that no jedi could walk away from, save one"

 

what could be that atrocity if not malachor, malachor is the final atrocity, is the last battle wher hundeds of warriors where throw at the planet to feed it.

 

"Revan knew the power of such places and the power making them, they can be used to break the will of others, of jedis, promising them power and turning to the dark side."

"it corrupts all that walks on its surface, drawn them with the power of dark side, it corrupts all life and feed on death"

 

is the plan of Revan, the final corruption something so terrible that no one can resist.

 

is really clear we can't say that is not malachor

also is stated clearly that the planet had a power by itself and is that power that break the will of the jedis.

 

if the death of other jedi is felt just by the exile and his bound so why other jedi get corrupted? all of these stances will make no more sense.

 

the corruption generated by the planet is strong enought to convert/kill the jedi, they don't need bounds to feel it, the exile himself can hear even whitout his bounds.

 

this is quite important because, even if i think that the force links of the exile are real, in the game there are some dilaogues that can show how these bounds are in reality just the natural leadership ability, so not directly related by the force.

[The Great Phantom]

This is a DIRECT quote from the game: "If the echoes do not stop, then all that hear them will or be deafened."

 

wait this is out of context, she is telling that after Exile failture on dantooine when he turned out to be just a murderer....

She almost kill the exile saying that something like

 

"you learned nothing"

"you are responsable for all of this and even now events will lead to the destraction because you where unable to listen, to undertand"

"of all i said you have not learnt to listen.."

"you where my only last hope the only one that chould change the future"

 

then she speak about the echoes that the Exile created and she says

"If the echoes do not stop, then all that hear them will or be deafened."

and then something like

"chose the right moment, create the right echo and all shall be destroyed"

 

she is not explaining her plans.... she is blaming the exile because he haven't understand what she taught him!

all of this will result in the destruction of the galaxy, and this will be the gift the exile have brought to the galaxy...

 

she doesn't want that to happen and in the end she says to the exile that he must awaken and hear these echoes and stop them or all will be destroyed.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

HA! I CAUGHT YOU IN YOUR OWN GAME!

 

It is played during the Loading screen, along with the message that says "Nihilus was revived on Malachor V"... HA!

[Zilod]

is also a part of the dialogue of Kreia on Dantooine (DS)

 

if you look i quoted it before you mentioned it in your post

 

 

ehi! you don't read my posts

[The Great Phantom]

The cavalry will try to explain it   

 

The Exile easily forms bonds with people around him (Willy-Nilly  ), feeling the weight of their lives on him (probably not as strong as his bond with Kreia, though). When all the Mandalorians and Republicans died on Malachor V, the Exile felt it.

 

All those deaths were like a scream in the force, that was too powerful for the Exile because of his bonds. It was so powerful he couldnt hear the force through it, and it threatened to kill him, so he cut himself off from the force to survive.

 

The point is, the Exile didnt just block himself from the force, he cut himself so completely that the Force was connected to him at all. The Force flows through all living beings, but no longer through the Exile. That makes him a wound in the force, like stripping a piece of skin from a guy's arm.

 

Other Jedi didnt face what the Exile did, since they dont make such bonds. They all either died, or joined the dark side by following Revan. I think Revan was corrupting Jedi during the Mandalorian Wars, and probably using the war itself to corrupt them like that. It's obvious though, from what Kreia says, that he is using some ancient Sith site of Dark Power to corrupt them. Whether that site is Malachor V stands in question, since the planet is on constant danger of being sent into a gravinational oblivion - so maybe Revan left Malachor when he intended to destroy it, or maybe he used a different but similiar site.

 

As for Exile, for whatever reason (when I played LS, Kreia says it's because he was afraid, but I dont know about DS), left Revan, the Wars and the Force.

 

Because the Exile was a dead spot in the Force, where it's will can be denied, Kreia decided to train him and make him powerful.

 

Kreia's true intent is very vague, however. Atris claims she wants to make everyone deaf to the force, and end all life as a result, but that could be just a lie Kreia made her believe in so she will send Exile after her to Malachor V.

 

Kreia herself never mentions any plans of making everyone deaf to the force, even though she'd really like that to happen. I think she knew well enough it was beyond her abilities to defean the galaxies to the force, no matter how much she wanted it. As I understand, her only goal was to train the Exile with her own teachings. Kreia mentions after her defeat on Trayus that the Exile has done all that she wanted him to - It's all about the Exile, as the living example of defying the Force. Destroying the Sith and the Jedi does not mean destroying the Force and Kreia should've known that well enough - whatever reason she had to use the Exile to destroy the Sith and Jedi was not to destroy the Force, she's not a fool.

 

In short, Kreia's ultimate goal was teaching the Exile, someone who was free from the Force. She loved the Exile because he was not bound to the Force's will, and focused everything she did on him.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

How would you like to become the Captain???

 

I think that your final statement was partly because of their bond, and how anybody around the Exile was literally DYING to serve him, because of their bonds.

 

Her logic was flawed, as stated blatantly by virtually EVERY key Jedi and Sith, and her methods echoed her flawed-ness (What would the term be, flawdidity?). She started off with brilliant inspiration (How the Jedi were restricting the very humanity of their Order), but her constant torment by pretty much EVERY living thing twisted her goals and ways, until she was the Traya we all know.

 

@ Zilod: You said it was out of context, but things in the Message Screen aren't uncontext-able. If it says that, then that is what is going on. She did it, she knew she did it, and it fit one of her many purposes.

[Zilod]

is also a part of the dialogue of Kreia on Dantooine (DS)

 

if you look i quoted it before you mentioned it in your post 

 

 

ehi! you don't read my posts   

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

note that is also true and Kreia herself tells that

 

is out of context if you make it look that Kreia says that as an explanation of her plans (as your post seemed to suppose)

 

as said Kreias tells that when she is blaming the Exile

 

you haven't understood me, look at what have you done...

if the echose will not be stopped the galaxy will be destroyed...

you have to stop that echoes.

 

it seem quite clear that is not her plan.

 

also i posted it more extensivelly as a reply to your post, quotin some other parts of the dialogue on dantooine (DS)

[curimi]

Got a theory elsewhere; sounds convincing.

 

Kreia's Masterplan?

 

Read Fireside's post.

[Grant Dempsey]

Kreia's true intent is very vague, however. Atris claims she wants to make everyone deaf to the force, and end all life as a result, but that could be just a lie Kreia made her believe in so she will send Exile after her to Malachor V.

 

Kreia herself never mentions any plans of making everyone deaf to the force, even though she'd really like that to happen. I think she knew well enough it was beyond her abilities to defean the galaxies to the force, no matter how much she wanted it. As I understand, her only goal was to train the Exile with her own teachings. Kreia mentions after her defeat on Trayus that the Exile has done all that she wanted him to - It's all about the Exile, as the living example of defying the Force. Destroying the Sith and the Jedi does not mean destroying the Force and Kreia should've known that well enough - whatever reason she had to use the Exile to destroy the Sith and Jedi was not to destroy the Force, she's not a fool.

 

In short, Kreia's ultimate goal was teaching the Exile, someone who was free from the Force. She loved the Exile because he was not bound to the Force's will, and focused everything she did on him.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes! I agree with you completely.

 

I don't think Kreia had any "grand scheme" for accomplising "the death of the Force" because it simply wasn't her ultimate goal over the course of the game. Although, I do think it was quite clear that Kreia did indeed hate the Force, in accordance with her expressed philosophies. I feel that if she saw it within her power to "kill" the Force without simultaneously killing much of the life throughout the galaxy (by somehow ensuring that whatever echo she created would simply deafen whatever beings it touched and not kill them), she probably would be tempted to do so.

 

As I see it, her ultimate goal over the course of the game was indeed quite simply to train the Exile to become her greatest apprentice (at least since Revan), and also to use the Exile to save the galaxy in other ways (such as confronting Master Atris and Darth Nihilus). She was originally drawn to the Exile for the fact that he had completely severed all his ties to the Force, which she perceived as "strength" in itself and admired.

 

As she expressed after being beaten at the Trayus Core, she had hoped for the Exile to follow Revan's path out beyond the Outer Rim. However, she also made it relatively clear that it didn't really matter to her, whatever the Exile chose to do after completing his training with her. It was enough of a reward to her that he had completed his training and met her expectations by becoming powerful enough to defeat her.

[@Li3n]

IMO Kreia didn't really had a plan from the beginning, she just wanted 2 find out how and why the exile broke his connection 2 the force and didn't turn out like Nihilus and some revenge on the others. In the end she sees that he did it because he/she was afraid (after she kills the council on dantooine - LS) and decides that death is her only way out.

Frankly Kreia is very suicidal, especially at the end. She's torn between her desire 4 the death of the force and getting people ready 2 fight the true sith.

[nightmaresofsorrow]

IMO Kreia didn't really had a plan from the beginning, she just wanted 2 find out how and why the exile broke his connection 2 the force and didn't turn out like Nihilus and some revenge on the others. In the end she sees that he did it because he/she was afraid (after she kills the council on dantooine - LS) and decides that death is her only way out.

  Frankly Kreia is very suicidal, especially at the end. She's torn between her desire 4 the death of the force and getting people ready 2 fight the true sith.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

1. I think that kreia had a plan from the beginning. She wanted revenge on those who cast her out. She despised the force and knew that the exile and his force bonds were the only way to kill it. She wanted to train a student greater then her first. And lastly she wanted to prepare the exile for the true sith.

 

2. Kreia was kind of suicidal but i think it was for different reasons. I think that her dying was just a test. She knew that if the exile could beat her then she did create a student greater than the first. And i think that she knew that the exile's training was complete and there was no point in her living anymore.