Yet another question about the ending

[Bless]

Who cares if my "beliefs" aren't shared by Kreia? I still haven't decided whether I like her or not, but she's wrong. You can't destroy the Force. End of story. She could struggle all she wanted, but look what it got her. Indecision and death. Whoopie.

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

[quote name='Bless

[The Great Phantom]

LIES ALL LIES!

 

The Jedi seek balance with the Force. The Sith seek domination. The Sith Tempations involve 'breaking chains'.

 

The "Ideal" Jedi would live in perfect balance (this DOES NOT mean neutral), and feel at peace, which many Jedi have done...

 

The "Ideal" Sith would conquer the Galaxy, be totally unquestioned by his puny underlings, and live a long life in the power of the Dark Side of the Force. (pulled from every compilation of SW Fantasy )

 

See, here we see NO destruction of the Force. This is the Vongs (being the accursed plague on SW as they are) goal... As well as Kreia's, but both of theirs entails the death of all those that hear its call.

 

Kreia's logic is SEVERELY flawed in many ways (CHOICE people, even Obi-Wan talked about this one, so all you sceptics have to agree ).

 

Shall we argue more, or leave it to the Devs and future SW writers?

[The Great Phantom]

Kreia did not win. She was put at peace in the end.

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

Kreia did not win. She was put at peace in the end.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Which means she is no longer a slave and therefore wins. She already spread her teachings to the Exile whether or not they agreed them.

 

Kreia wins whatever happens. She has either trained a student strong enough to kill her, the goal of every Sith. Or she beats the student having found out what she needed to complete her plan. Of course the reload button means you will only ever get the first outcome.

[KurtDunniehue]

It's becoming somewhat clear that the idea that at some point someone MIGHT be capable of destroying the force in a non completely cataclysmic way seems to inspire rage.

 

Is it so hard to believe that something of that scale, with enough coordination and meticulous planning, MIGHT succeed? To completely purge the universe of the Force, and let life continue on in a now less connected sort of way? This is a fantasy setting after all.

 

And if all Jedi's and Sith followed their Ideal archetypes, then we wouldn't have some Jedi's who ran off to War, and others who stayed in pacifistic contemplation. You wouldn't have the remaining Jedi Masters who put themselves into a 'mock exile' for wrongs they believed they commited.

 

No Jedi's would fall, and stories would be alot shorter.

 

And if we'll just go by Future Writer's productions, then mayhaps I should become a published SW writer, and settle this once and for all?

 

In my opinion, any production of any artist anywhere stops being 'intellectual property' of the artist the very MOMENT they release their art to the public. Each person will put their own spin on any peice of art, no matter how small the interpretation or how deliberate the peice of art itself.

 

For us to only speculate about the SW cannon by what the creators say is valid arguments seems quite foolish to me.

[Volourn]

Kreia loses. Her goal was to destroy the Force. She failed in doing that. She loses.

 

And, as Kreai was a slave in life she is a slave in death. She will always be a slave to the Force. Always.

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

Kreia loses. Her goal was to destroy the Force. She failed in doing that. She loses.

 

And, as Kreai was a slave in life she is a slave in death. She will always be a slave to the Force. Always.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

That was just one of her goals.Revenge on Jedi (done) Revenge on the Sith(done) spreading her teachings to a new student(done).Her true goal was to no longer be a slave to the force and being dead she isnt a slave.

 

How did you come to that conclusion anyway?

[tmp]

Is it so hard to believe that something of that scale, with enough coordination and meticulous planning, MIGHT succeed?  To completely purge the universe of the Force, and let life continue on in a now less connected sort of way?  This is a fantasy setting after all.

I think the idea is difficult to cope with, because from what i understand --which is admittedly little, SW didn't hold much of my interest-- the force is primarily a 'by-product' of life... something that always exist as long as there's life itself. It then surrounds you and flows through you, and if you are aware of this you can either tap into it (either forcefully or in balanced manner, giving back as much as you take so to speak) ... or you can shut it out. But since it's constantly generated it's not possible to actually 'kill' the force without completely erasing thing that creates it, i.e. every single live beings.

 

But then again you have someone like Nihilus who's apparently something like a black hole to the force, and that whole 'echoes' thing whatever that's supposed to mean... gah, complicated. >.< ;

[Volourn]

"How did you come to that conclusion anyway?"

 

Which one? The fact that she still a slave even after death. Simple. As we all know, dying in the SW Universe doesn't mean much. Even the dead are a part of the Force so even in death Kreia is a slave to the Force.

 

 

"That was just one of her goals.Revenge on Jedi (done) Revenge on the Sith(done) spreading her teachings to a new student(done)"

 

Those weren't her goals. Those were all a means to an end. Her goal was tod estroy the Force. She did not do that. Therefore, she failed in her goal just like any oher villain.

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

Which one? The fact that she still a slave even after death. Simple. As we all know, dying in the SW Universe doesn't mean much. Even the dead are a part of the Force so even in death Kreia is a slave to the Force.

 

Those weren't her goals. Those were all a means to an end. Her goal was tod estroy the Force. She did not do that. Therefore, she failed in her goal just like any oher villain.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Aside from the Jedi who have come back as force ghosts no one knows what happens to the dead. Even if they become one with the "force" they dont in a manner which retains a concious. Or SW would be overun with force ghosts.

 

They are goals she wanted revenge on all things and ultimately the force and she wanted to spread her teachings, which she tells you about on the ship.

 

The only goal she didnt accomplish was the death of the force she did everything else. As game villians go , shes one of the more successful.

[The Great Phantom]

She 'won', but not in the way she wanted. In the Guide for the game, and a couple of LA sites, it says that the only way to FINALLY give her peace is to end her life, sending her to see the Force the way it really is. As LS, you give her rest, and as DS, she is doomed to eternal torment feeding Malachor V's power.

 

Her goal may have STARTED as showing the Jedi the error of her ways, but her guilt over Revan, and the constant torment of her various betrayers, coupled with the Dark Side effectively drove her insane towards the end. You can't deny it, look in a medical dictionary .

 

Edit: And many Jedi or, more common, Sith, can come back as ghosts if they surround themselves with the right kind of power. Jedi usually don't come back, unless they have unfinished business (they usually work through Holocrons, though), but the Sith can NEVER have enough power, so they come back to bask in what they do have... (Based on Ajunta Pall and another ghost, whats-his-name)

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

She 'won', but not in the way she wanted. In the Guide for the game, and a couple of LA sites, it says that the only way to FINALLY give her peace is to end her life, sending her to see the Force the way it really is. As LS, you give her rest, and as DS, she is doomed to eternal torment feeding Malachor V's power.

 

Her goal may have STARTED as showing the Jedi the error of her ways, but her guilt over Revan, and the constant torment of her various betrayers, coupled with the Dark Side effectively drove her insane towards the end. You can't deny it, look in a medical dictionary .

 

Edit: And many Jedi or, more common, Sith, can come back as ghosts if they surround themselves with the right kind of power. Jedi usually don't come back, unless they have unfinished business (they usually work through Holocrons, though), but the Sith can NEVER have enough power, so they come back to bask in what they do have... (Based on Ajunta Pall and another ghost, whats-his-name)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Is that why Qui Gon never did a vanishing act when he died?

[Hunter_of_Chaos]

not all Jedi do a "vanishing act" ,from what i know only Jedi Masters who are completely

at peace and in balance with the force completely disappear as their bodies become one with it just as their spirits do.

 

So I guess Qui Gon was not at that stage yet...

[The Great Phantom]

Qui Gon was sorta like Jolee, but not as cool or bad @$$...

 

I think that where they die, and if they want to come back, has a lot to do with it. Most people stay dead, but Sith are most known for ignoring the Rules (of the Force aka Nature) and come back with the right objects in the right place, with the right attitude at death: "I'm going to show you! I'll manipulate your students until they dance before me like those Twi'lek bounty hunters!!!"

[Soulweaver]

Many have said here that there is choice in the Force. The way i see it there is choice, but it is limited to the path you walk to an end the Force chose.

Imagine the future in SW as a network of roads, with many crossroads, but only one destiny. You can choose which path you will take on each crossroad and so the future can be predicted to that point acurately; after that point it becomes uncertain. If there was someone who understood the Force in a perfect way he could probably see ahead enough to understand what the final outcome would be.

From this point of view I would say Kreia's logic was not flawed and that her actions weren't insane at all.

[The Great Phantom]

Destiny can change, which is said by any Jedi that try to predict the future. Granted, in the end, the Force will achieve SOME form of balance, but the Galaxy could be going from a place ruled by Gizka to Darth Revan's bathroom... (I needed 2 opposites, and this is what I got)