New KOTOR 2 Patch

[Quasar]

This forum almost reminds me of KOTOR itself. We have the dark-siders who are whining like a bunch of grapes about the patch, and we have the light-siders who are trying to be nice and stuff. Anyone got force persuade, so that Lucasarts doesn't rush in future?

[drowninginjello]

By 'force persuade', do you mean 'dangle loaded wallet in front of LA'?

 

I would like to point out to the whining crowd that after completely backing-up everything that I couldn't live without, I formatted my drive, reinstalled XP MCE, and KOTOR2 with my saves and game settings and the latest Forceware drivers.

 

Results? I am happy to report that not only is the lag gone, but I am now at about 70% complete with the game with the high-performance settings.

 

Vast improvement, however drastic. Beats defrag any day, and less painful then a whiskey enima

 

[Burnzzz]

You really prefer the same rush job that was done on the game be done on the patch as well?

 

Wasn't it LA rushing this game out the door early and untested in the first place that ended-up with all of the bugs?

 

I opt for the path of patience. They've stated that a patch is being tested, and that should be enough to make many of you whiners relax.

 

Many of us paid good money for the game as well. Getting angry and typing obscene messages to people at the company will not make anyone happy.

 

If being angry makes you feel better, perhaps you should try playing a game of Postal 2 while you wait for the patch. It would be a great opportunity to vent your anger, as well as laugh a little.

 

In the meantime, let's give Obsidian some breathing room. And be thankful that they weren't forced to release it back when the XBOX version was released (the original release date for this version). That would really be unacceptable (can you say wireframes?).

 

A proper patch would be better-received than an incomplete patch that resolves nothing. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

While you are right that both games were released when they were not so finished, the fact that they have like 2 weeks + the patch is finished and now just testing they could just release it so people can continue to play the game, and also continue to check and develope new patches, the maximum harm it can do is that your problem won't be solved and that you will wait for the next patch.

 

What I wrote them is not such of an angry letter, it is just expressing my 'desperation' (i.e I paid good money for it and now I can't play it), I think they should know that, not in an angry way, in a disappointed way.

[Guinnessmonkey]

By 'force persuade', do you mean 'dangle loaded wallet in front of LA'? 

 

 

As if LA has historically had a problem with gettin' us to give them money....

 

 

At this point they've learned that they could pretty much put a "Star Wars" logo on a box o' turds and still make millions (not that I think that KOTOR II was said box... IMHO Obsidian did a great job despite LA's pressure... I just want a patch. ).

 

Which is why most SW games are terrible: if LA doesn't have a monetary reason to make sure that all games that carry the SW logo are actually excellent (and back off enough to allow the developers to make a great game) then they won't bother. After all, they don't make money by licencing good games. They make money by licencing games with the logo, which invariably make money regardless of quality.

 

If anything, we should count our blessings that we've had as many quality SW games as we have had (essentially X-Wing, Tie Fighter, KOTORI/II).

 

*grumble grumble*

[dantivirus]

Patch? Oh yeah THAT thing!

 

Me: Runs great on my system!

 

T3-M4: Beop beep?

 

Me: Yes, it does run great. What are you talking about?

 

T3-M4: Bloop bweep beepo beepbeep tweet!

 

Me: I guess broken scripts are ok and no completion of HK-47's droid factory isn't that frustrating.

 

HK-47: :Puzzled Inquiry: Master, why would you say such a thing. Did I not tell you that I wish to find out where these sub-standard versions of myself were coming from?

 

Me: Well, yeah HK-47 but Lucasarts said ship it, so they did! Things had to be cut to meet the ship date.

 

HK-47: :Frustration: Oh I see now Master. If my assassination protocols did not prevent me from harming Lucasarts staff; those meatbags would be praying to their pagan incoporeal divine being that I would press the trigger faster so they can exit this plane of reality!

 

Me: HK, no need to get frustrated, we all are but the game is great isn't it and it runs great on our machines, right?

 

T3-M4: BWOOOP BLEEP BLEEPOOP!

 

Me: What? (sees smoke coming out of system and loading bar at 1/3 full) I guess that's suppose to happen, right?

 

HK-47: :Extreme Dissatisfaction: No Master, that is NOT suppose to happen. I thought you Meatbags test your software before distributing it?

 

Me: Well yeah, we do..well most of the time...I think.

 

HK-47: :Annoyance: Assassination protocols activated! Well Master, point out the offender and I will blast them into space dust.

 

Me: Well you can't, they're Lucasarts employees.

 

HK-47: :Frustration: I see Master. This is most annoying. My assassination protocols have been activated so I must go blast someone into space dust!

 

GoTo enters and sees the smoke coming out of system and 1/3 load bar.

 

GoTo: Hmm analysis sugguest poor beta testing was performed on that software. I told them to fully test it before shipping.

 

Me: You told them? Are you part of the beta team?

 

GoTo: No, I just own a portion of the company.

 

HK-47: :Excited Inquiry: Are you a Lucasarts employee?

 

GoTo: No. As I said I just own....(blaster fire)...zip zoot..... (GoTo explodes)

 

HK-47: :Relieved Frustration: (stops firing) Thank you!

[themacman]

Patch? Oh yeah THAT thing!

 

Me: Runs great on my system!

 

T3-M4: Beop beep?

 

Me: Yes, it does run great. What are you talking about?

 

T3-M4: Bloop bweep beepo beepbeep tweet!

 

Me: I guess broken scripts are ok and no completion of HK-47's droid factory isn't that frustrating.

 

HK-47:  :Puzzled Inquiry: Master, why would you say such a thing. Did I not tell you that I wish to find out where these sub-standard versions of myself were coming from?

 

Me: Well, yeah HK-47 but Lucasarts said ship it, so they did! Things had to be cut to meet the ship date.

 

HK-47:  :Frustration: Oh I see now Master. If my assassination protocols did not prevent me from harming Lucasarts staff; those meatbags would be praying to their pagan incoporeal divine being that I would press the trigger faster so they can exit this plane of reality!

 

Me: HK, no need to get frustrated, we all are but the game is great isn't it and it runs great on our machines, right?

 

T3-M4: BWOOOP BLEEP BLEEPOOP!

 

Me: What? (sees smoke coming out of system and loading bar at 1/3 full) I guess that's suppose to happen, right?

 

HK-47: :Extreme Dissatisfaction: No Master, that is NOT suppose to happen. I thought you Meatbags test your software before distributing it?

 

Me: Well yeah, we do..well most of the time...I think.

 

HK-47:  :Annoyance: Assassination protocols activated! Well Master, point out the offender and I will blast them into space dust.

 

Me: Well you can't, they're Lucasarts employees.

 

HK-47:  :Frustration: I see Master. This is most annoying. My assassination protocols have been activated so I must go blast someone into space dust!

 

GoTo enters and sees the smoke coming out of system and 1/3 load bar.

 

GoTo: Hmm analysis sugguest poor beta testing was performed on that software. I told them to fully test it before shipping.

 

Me: You told them? Are you part of the beta team?

 

GoTo: No, I just own a portion of the company.

 

HK-47:  :Excited Inquiry: Are you a Lucasarts employee?

 

GoTo: No. As I said I just own....(blaster fire)...zip zoot.....  (GoTo explodes)

 

HK-47:  :Relieved Frustration: (stops firing) Thank you!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Yup you notice they cut a Huge part out of the game.

i very disapointed by it

i hope they fix it someday because we have paid good money to see the HK factory be destroyed/used for the jedi in some strange way

 

 

i think lucas arts ows everyone a free updated CD/DVDfor the Xbox and download for the PC.

PLEASE LUCASART LET THEM FINISH THIS QUEST

[Guinnessmonkey]

Yup you notice they cut a Huge part out of the game.

i very disapointed by it

i hope they fix it someday because we have paid good money to see the HK factory be destroyed/used for the jedi in some strange way

 

 

i think lucas arts ows everyone a free updated CD/DVDfor the Xbox and download for the PC.

PLEASE LUCASART LET THEM FINISH THIS QUEST

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well... To be fair, we really don't know if it was a "huge part of the game."

 

I mean, it is a party-member subquest. It could have been just some hitherto unopenable door on Nar Shaada or something, where you kill 10 droids and get an influence point or something.

 

 

Don't get me wrong. I want HK to kill the meatbags who need killin'. Just sayin'...

[Burnzzz]

Sorry, that is a good question - the patch, at the time of this post, should NOT invalidate save games.

 

There is a potential problem that if you have already played through an area where the fix occurs and saved it without the patch, the patch may not fix that problem (as expected). But at worst, the end result would be playing the game as if unpatched, it wouldn't make the save game unplayable. I'm not sure how many bugs are like this (I doubt there will be many), I'm sure it'll be listed on the patch fixes.

 

Again, take this with a grain of salt - this information is only current at the time of this post, and it's still being tested.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Written by one of Obsidian Developers.

 

So basicly anyone who is experiencing a loading problem (like me) will not be able to fix it, damn!

and there is more, if you are in a buggy area in your save game and you can't advance and you have a save game only in this place, then you too will have to start things all over again, really great!

 

I hope that someday LucasArts and Obsidian will realize that they should not be in a rush to release the game, otherwise it will be suck, a shame they didn't realize it from KOTOR I.

[Bazooka]

Sorry, that is a good question - the patch, at the time of this post, should NOT invalidate save games.

 

There is a potential problem that if you have already played through an area where the fix occurs and saved it without the patch, the patch may not fix that problem (as expected). But at worst, the end result would be playing the game as if unpatched, it wouldn't make the save game unplayable. I'm not sure how many bugs are like this (I doubt there will be many), I'm sure it'll be listed on the patch fixes.

 

Again, take this with a grain of salt - this information is only current at the time of this post, and it's still being tested.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Written by one of Obsidian Developers.

 

So basicly anyone who is experiencing a loading problem (like me) will not be able to fix it, damn!

and there is more, if you are in a buggy area in your save game and you can't advance and you have a save game only in this place, then you too will have to start things all over again, really great!

 

I hope that someday LucasArts and Obsidian will realize that they should not be in a rush to release the game, otherwise it will be suck, a shame they didn't realize it from KOTOR I.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Loading problems will be fixed as long as you start a new game.... I don't think that will be a problem for most people if they know they can play without (or at least with less) bugs.

[Burnzzz]

Sorry, that is a good question - the patch, at the time of this post, should NOT invalidate save games.

 

There is a potential problem that if you have already played through an area where the fix occurs and saved it without the patch, the patch may not fix that problem (as expected). But at worst, the end result would be playing the game as if unpatched, it wouldn't make the save game unplayable. I'm not sure how many bugs are like this (I doubt there will be many), I'm sure it'll be listed on the patch fixes.

 

Again, take this with a grain of salt - this information is only current at the time of this post, and it's still being tested.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Written by one of Obsidian Developers.

 

So basicly anyone who is experiencing a loading problem (like me) will not be able to fix it, damn!

and there is more, if you are in a buggy area in your save game and you can't advance and you have a save game only in this place, then you too will have to start things all over again, really great!

 

I hope that someday LucasArts and Obsidian will realize that they should not be in a rush to release the game, otherwise it will be suck, a shame they didn't realize it from KOTOR I.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Loading problems will be fixed as long as you start a new game.... I don't think that will be a problem for most people if they know they can play without (or at least with less) bugs.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I know there are a lot of people who are experiencing troubles with their saved games and with the area they are in, and there are a lot of people (like me) who don't want to save all the time and just using quicks.

So of course I realize it will fix this bug IF I start a new game, but i'm nearly at the end of KOTOR II, I don't want to start a new game, is that so much to ask?

[Azure_One]

Yes, it is. I mean, if there is incorrect data recorded in your save, what exactly do you propose they do about it? Overwrite all saves uniformly with the same values that may or may not have anything to do with your game? Reset the area you are currently in? How many other things could that break?

 

I also don't see where that post says that loading issues won't be fixed.

[Burnzzz]

Yes, it is. I mean, if there is incorrect data recorded in your save, what exactly do you propose they do about it? Overwrite all saves uniformly with the same values that may or may not have anything to do with your game? Reset the area you are currently in? How many other things could that break?

 

I also don't see where that post says that loading issues won't be fixed.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I was mainly talking about my problem which can be fixed but appreantly won't.

As I discovered going thorough this forum is that my bug (1/3 loading bug) is caused by some kind of an incompatible hardware or something, anyway the suggested way to fix it doesn't work at my computer, so they can make the patch make the game avoid this incompitability and by doing so, they will fix the problem.

 

I gave here one example, but I can give more, they should do more, to save our save games.

[drowninginjello]

Well, great news is that I finally finished the game tonight. Without any issues/crashes minus the text/dialogue skipping a few times (went to the menu and read the script to see what was said - add that feature into KOTOR3, please).

 

I really am a bit disappointed that

Kreia

was the bad guy behind it all. I would've much more prefered someone less obvious...the lack of a plot twist on it really made the game a tiny bit disappointing.

 

But the gameplay and story were otherwise great.

 

A few things that would be great (spoilers ahead):

 

 

More opportunities to develop love interests with other female characters (if male main character). I lean more towards Visas, but also would've liked to try Mira. Something about that platinum look really wasn't too appealing to me (Handmaiden). Visas just seemed to me to be more in touch with the Exile and knew who he really was, and proclaimed her love for him at one point. She also stated that she would follow him wherever he wished her to go. So if KOTOR3 does happen, it'd be great to see that not all of Kreia's predictions came true. She wasn't a willing receptor to the Force, meaning she wouldn't be as 'in touch' with visions of the future as she seemed to lead the Exile to believe. In fact, KOTOR3 could open with the status of the characters from KOTOR2, even if they never appear in the game (except HK-47...the game wouldn't be the same without him...but make him funny again, like he was in KOTOR1).

 

Was it just me, or did Citadel Station seem so small? In KOTOR1, there were so many playable areas in many of the levels. It kind of feels like they shortchanged us on level dimensions. There were areas you could see in the entertainment deck that would've been nice to wander through.

 

It's been a spell since I played KOTOR1, but weren't there more planets in the first one than this one? If I recall correctly, there were. Again, being shortchanged comes to mind.

 

 

 

It would've been great to have a game worth $100 for 2 DVD's worth of (bug/error-free) gameplay. I'd shell it out with a genuine smile on my face. I'd rather have a game that takes me 2 months to finish than one I can finish in a week or two. But then, it wouldn't be incentive enough to go buy another sequel, right?

 

Otherwise a great game. Just not sure if it really was worth $49, however.

 

[themacman]

Yup you notice they cut a Huge part out of the game.

i very disapointed by it

i hope they fix it someday because we have paid good money to see the HK factory be destroyed/used for the jedi in some strange way

 

 

i think lucas arts ows everyone a free updated CD/DVDfor the Xbox and download for the PC.

PLEASE LUCASART LET THEM FINISH THIS QUEST

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well... To be fair, we really don't know if it was a "huge part of the game."

 

I mean, it is a party-member subquest. It could have been just some hitherto unopenable door on Nar Shaada or something, where you kill 10 droids and get an influence point or something.

 

 

Don't get me wrong. I want HK to kill the meatbags who need killin'. Just sayin'...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

i want it to be huge

or at least feature in the game...

[The Great Phantom]

Give them a break. Do you know how hard it is to program even a simple game of tic-tac-toe? IT TAKES FOREVER!!! All the possible solutions, all the output that you have to do for EVERY possible solution, and then running every possible senario to make sure that it works (they didn't do this too thurouly (sp???)). Now, take that to a massive 3-D RPG, and you have a lot of work.

 

Could you at least tell us what it does, though???

[Gatt]

Give them a break. Do you know how hard it is to program even a simple game of tic-tac-toe? IT TAKES FOREVER!!! All the possible solutions, all the output that you have to do for EVERY possible solution, and then running every possible senario to make sure that it works (they didn't do this too thurouly (sp???)). Now, take that to a massive 3-D RPG, and you have a lot of work.

 

Could you at least tell us what it does, though???

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Um, Odds are as long as I have the graphics I can do it in Java in the span of a couple Hours. Tic Tac Toe is not exactly something all that complicated...

[Feza]

Chris's just post this thread today...

 

http://forums.obsidianent.com/index.php?showtopic=31125

 

The patch is on the way, but still being tested. We won't have a list of all the fixes until it's ready to be downloaded, unfortunately.

 

I don't have an ETA on it yet, but it shouldn't be too much longer.

 

Anyway, What's this ETA?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Ok, what the heck happened to the thread posted by Chris ???

It's disappeared (???)

[Master Dahvernas]

If anyone has kept up with the development history of TSL...

 

There was a critical point in November when one of the devs said that they ran into a HUGE problem because they couldn't implement something they wanted to.

 

My guess is that the game was almost done... Meaning ALL of the endings, the HK factory and everything else... But the limited hardware of the XBox was incompatbile or with something or other, so they had to do a drastic redesign of the game at the last moment in order to make the Christmas deadline (this has not been confirmed, but if you read-between-the-lines in the interview, this is basically what is being said).

 

I am in no way excusing LA for giving them an impossible, one year deadline for a game of this scope... But from a strictly technical standpoint I am pretty sure this is what happened and we can all see where they had to make drastic cuts

Everything, storywise, falls apart once Kreia goes Evil and becomes Darth Traya because from that point on the game just does not make any coherent sense and you can tell that on Malachor V that they just turn it into a hack and slash fest because a lot of the NPC companion subquests... Like Goto/Remote Stand-off; Mira and Hannhar... Would have been wrapped up, but they had to cut those because this is pressuambly where the XBox had problems

 

 

Also, I am not starting an XBox vs. PC war either. I own an XBox and a high powered (AMd 64) gaming rig and like each one for their strengths.

 

But again, from a strictly development point of view... I think this is what happened and it is a shame because a game like KOTOR really is not a console game in the sense that it is a very complicated piece of programming and unfortnately, the devs had to design it with the limitations of a 1999 era PC (the XBox) in mind when if they had just done two versions for each platform and tested it properly then perhaps the PC version wouldn't have suffered both artistically and technically.

[The Great Phantom]

Give them a break. Do you know how hard it is to program even a simple game of tic-tac-toe? IT TAKES FOREVER!!! All the possible solutions, all the output that you have to do for EVERY possible solution, and then running every possible senario to make sure that it works (they didn't do this too thurouly (sp???)). Now, take that to a massive 3-D RPG, and you have a lot of work.

 

Could you at least tell us what it does, though???

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Um, Odds are as long as I have the graphics I can do it in Java in the span of a couple Hours. Tic Tac Toe is not exactly something all that complicated...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

So could I, even if I had to make the graphics. BUT, try doing it with a 30 hour long game, in 3D, with thousands of possible combinations for hundreds of different locations, and it could take months or a year or two, if they debug it right.

[Burnzzz]

Give them a break. Do you know how hard it is to program even a simple game of tic-tac-toe? IT TAKES FOREVER!!! All the possible solutions, all the output that you have to do for EVERY possible solution, and then running every possible senario to make sure that it works (they didn't do this too thurouly (sp???)). Now, take that to a massive 3-D RPG, and you have a lot of work.

 

Could you at least tell us what it does, though???

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Um, Odds are as long as I have the graphics I can do it in Java in the span of a couple Hours. Tic Tac Toe is not exactly something all that complicated...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

So could I, even if I had to make the graphics. BUT, try doing it with a 30 hour long game, in 3D, with thousands of possible combinations for hundreds of different locations, and it could take months or a year or two, if they debug it right.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

You are taking this programming thing too seriously, it is not so hard as you think to create a game (it's hard but not SOOO hard).

For example - tic-tac-toe doesn't take forever like you think it is, it is much simpler, just know some math thing and some programming and it is a lot easier than you think, and trust me, I know some programming.

Anyway the patch is finished now and just 'testing'.

[GMan2]

Anyway the patch is finished now and just 'testing'.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I'm coming in late here I know....But do you know what fixes they are addressing with this patch? I'm guessing they're not going to be able to fix everything, but is there a site that I/we can look at to get some more info? Thanks!

[Shalynn Lors]

I'm coming in late here I know....But do you know what fixes they are addressing with this patch?  I'm guessing they're not going to be able to fix everything, but is there a site that I/we can look at to get some more info?  Thanks! 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

No, they (the devs) already posted in this forum that no change log will be available before release. So it comes simultaneously with the patch download.

[Russki Bear]

Give them time people.

As for programming Tic Tac Toe in a few hours, well you must be current with state space searches and recursion. For even though I have done it before it would take me a while to program the SSS from scratch, or modify an existing one to take board states as its data. In fact that idea has me wondering if I can do a chess game where you need to employ heuristics to make it viable for current computer hardware to process. I think I am gonna try it out.

If you were not going to use a method like this and use if->thens, good luck. It might work, but it'd be more than a few hours worth.

 

For those interested -

 

There are 9 positions on a tic tac toe board right? 9!=362880 combinations. Let us reduce that by putting the first move always in the middle, so in essence it is 8! = 40320. Other players turn, then let's take the first available corner.... This can be acheived by weighting individual positions on the board, the centre a 1, the corners a 0.9, everything else can be 0.5 base modified by adjacent positions, ie: if there are two of yours in a line with the empty position, it is a 1, thereby ensuring the computer doesn't then go for a 0.9 corner.

What happens is that the computer has a list of all available moves from the current position, the list being the next level on the tree. It either searches through them looking for the highest weighting or it finds a 1, at which point it has won the match. It takes the highest weighted path.

To program this without using a recursive algorithm would require you to have each and every possibility covered - no easy task even if you force the computer to follow certain strategies - essentially to have this possibilities built by the programmer rather than have the processor do the work.

 

That's off the top of my head, it's essentially basic AI.

[twingo]

any release date ?????? my game is very buggy at this moment

[Shalynn Lors]

any release date ?????? my game is very buggy at this moment 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Of course there is one.

Star Wars Knights of the Old Republic II PC patch coming soon!

aka "when it's done".