Why is the Party AI so rubbish?

[Dranoel]

The party AI system does not work at all. It is without a doubt one of the worst systems I have ever seen. This is particularly evident on Telos when assaulting the Czerka compound. When you face the first group of mercenaries (after killing the Twilek Droid master) it is ridiculously bad. I have engaged stationary mode for all the characters, cancelled combat and engaged solo mode. I try to pull back to retreat and the other two characters, despite being miles away from the enemy begin suicidal dashes (quite independently) at different large groups of enemies. Bao dur runs up the ramp where there are mercenaries and turrets whilst Atton runs at another group of mercenaries. I try running them away back down the path they came from, change character (still in solo mode) to get one of the other retards to pull out and the one I have just moved starts running, from miles away, back into combat with the enemies.

 

WTF is this. What is the point of having AI options if you are not going to use them. This has got to be one of the hardest encounters simply cos the AI is so ****ed up!

[Malagance]

You know, I'm glad I'm not the only one who has this issue at the Czerka Compound. You're absolutely right, this point of the game (Attack on the Czerka compound) is really terrible because of the party AI, regardless of how you set it.

[Laozi]

Ya, but it gets so bad its funny. You're standing there trying to heal party members and you turn around and they're gone, I still especially like it when someone just runs through a couple of mines though its the best

[skuldar]

Granted, the AI needs some work, but that particular location is a problem largely because of the overlapping aggro radii and a ramp-induced line-of-sight issue; it would be a pain even with improved party AI.

 

Still, I ended up rarely using the Ranged behavior mode because they kept getting stuck with melee weapons out even when I thought they should have switched back to ranged. I stuck Atton on Agressive because that way he wouldn't swap out his pistols.

 

Once I started paying more attention to line-of-sight and range, my battles went more smoothly. Try to line up everyone so they don't have to round a corner to attack, and also pay attention to the relative ranges of Force Powers vs Pistols vs Rifles. Or, somewhat against that grain, equip your main with a rifle then pull enemies around corners to your group.

[><FISH'>]

that AI system was my doom at the czeka compound >.< perhaps in kotor 3 there could be something like a retreat command?

[BattleCookiee]

The AI really makes it hard there, and as they use Shields there you need Bao Dur to destroy them, but he has a nice habit of cancel the shield breaker-commands I give him and instead fight, die and let me fight an enemy who just can't get hit and killed... (shield)

 

Reminds me to Bastila in KOTOR1's Star Forge (DS): "Cut The Fighting Crap, Run To The Open Door And To The Command Level. AAAAAAAAAAAARG, NO Revan Don't Run Back, NO Bastila Get Back Her. AAAAAARGH (smoking PC because of a shield breaking fist)

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

The AI is better than the first game you just have to know which settings to use where. Even left to it's own devices it makes much better use of powers and feats.

 

Dont switch to solo mode if your using stationary AI they will stay put anyway. But they will "teleport" if you start a conversation.

 

In that instance I usually have him run around cracking shields before switching back to my character.

[Darth Brooks]

The PDF manual talks about a "defensive" behavior where the AI characters stay within 5 meters of the focused character. I have no idea why they took that out.

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

The PDF manual talks about a "defensive" behavior where the AI characters stay within 5 meters of the focused character. I have no idea why they took that out.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Me either because that would have been quite handy to have

 

It was kind of funny when they ran all over the place and you just saw XP scrolling up the screen.

 

Less funny when they ran off and died though.

[Volourn]

"The AI is better than the first game you just have to know which settings to use where."

 

No, it isn't. Not even close. And, it doens't matter what setting you use. They alls uck. Half the time, npcs just stand there jerking off; the other half they do nothing butattack unaware of brains.

 

FO's AI is better. Easily.

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

There mere fact that there was no stationary and ranged AI in the first game just shows what a crock you speak.

 

Next you will be saying the NwN AI is better

[AlanC9]

There mere fact that there was no stationary and ranged AI in the first game just shows what a crock you speak.

 

Next you will be saying the NwN AI is better

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

It's good to have the options. But if they don't do what they're supposed to do, what's the point?

 

I've had a fairly good experience with the "stationary" behavior in situations like the Czerka base assault.

 

Anyway, the game's so easy that you can win even with the bad NPC AI -- not surprising, since the enemies use the same AI themselves.

[Guest Damar Stiehl]

Just pick the right stances and weapons.

 

If you have a melee character whom you don't want to charge, put them on Grenadier. I had all kinds of problems until I started using this stance.

 

Thing is, the AI will want to attack if it takes fire. And if it has only a melee weapon with which to attack, it'll charge. You wouldn't expect someone to stand there and get hosed with blaster fire without fighting back, now would you?

 

If you put your melee people into Grenadier stance, they'll retaliate with grenades instead of charging when hit. And when YOU charge, they'll charge with you. Put your Sentinels and Consulars on Jedi Support. Keep your Guardians on Aggressive because they'll Force Jump over mines when they want to charge, and you DO want them up in the enemy's face ASAP.

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

It's good to have the options. But if they don't do what they're supposed to do, what's the point?

 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

They do pretty much what they say they do. Jedi support will use buffing powers on entering combat. Ranged will attempt to stay at range and will switch to a melee weapon if they are attacked in melee and then switch back to ranged(which eases my mind a bit on the NwN II front).

 

Stationary WILL sit there like a lemon if they dont have a ranged weapon equipped.

But thats kind of obvious given the nature of the command I would have thought.

[Darth Jebus]

There mere fact that there was no stationary and ranged AI in the first game just shows what a crock you speak.

 

Next you will be saying the NwN AI is better

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

In certain situations, yes, NWN's AI was better. In NWN you had a MULTITUDE of commands you could give to a party member. For example, inside the Inner Sanctum of the Source Stone where you confronted Morag, once her two Hands came out to attack you, you could fall back through the tunnels and then bring up the radial commands on your henchman and tell him or her to follow you, irregardless of if they were in combat mode or not. That's just one of many examples throughout the game, by the way. It's just the one that sprung to mind.

 

You could also tell your henchman to "Stand Your Ground", which was kind of like Solo Mode, except that they didn't automatically attack an enemy when one was in sight. These minor functions made a big difference when facing tough enemies in that game.

 

But it would've been even cooler if KOTOR had the same command functions as the BG games and Icewind Dale, where you could issue specific commands and even tell NPC's where to attack from, or even tell them to fall back. I know that those games were run off of ancient engines, but they handled combat situations and tactical planning, as well as party formations far better then either KOTOR game, IMO. It was like you were in command of a small military unit.

[lothos]

Yeah, I loved how Kreia charged up that ramp at the Czerka encampment all on her own on my first time through! Well, at least she did have the stun droid line so it wasn't a total disaster <chuckle>.

[AlanC9]

But it would've been even cooler if KOTOR had the same command functions as the BG games and Icewind Dale, where you could issue specific commands and even tell NPC's where to attack from, or even tell them to fall back.  I know that those games were run off of ancient engines, but they handled combat situations and tactical planning, as well as party formations far better then either KOTOR game, IMO.  It was like you were in command of a small military unit.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Actually, it's like playing a bad tactical wargame. Real small-unit command is nothing at all like playing an IE game.

 

Clarification (as HK-47 might say): "Bad" meaning a bad wargame --i.e., a poor simulation. Games like that can still be good fun.

[Volourn]

"There mere fact that there was no stationary and ranged AI in the first game just shows what a crock you speak."

 

Huh? You had ranged AI in FO. As for stationary AI; they had it as much as KOTOR did for sure. At least FO npcs don't sit there when their thumbs up their behinds.

 

 

"Next you will be saying the NwN AI is better"

 

NWN's AI is 100x better than KOTOR1 or 2. There is no comparison. Only someone who thinks 3rd eprosn view is going out of style would be dumb enough to suggest otherwise.

[AlanC9]

Huh? You had ranged AI in FO. As for stationary AI; they had it as much as KOTOR did for sure. At least FO npcs don't sit there when their thumbs up their behinds.

 

Not sure where FO comes in. I think the point is that you can tell KotOR 2 party members to stay put, whereas you couldn't cofigure the KotOR 1 AI at all. I'd call it a step forward.

[Volourn]

Problem is that the KOTOR2 npcs don't relaly listen. They pretty much ignore most of your commands unless your directly control them. The only AI set up that seems to work reasonably well is the Jedi AI one. That gets a from me.

 

As for FO; read the first page.

[Sorwen]

My favorite AI mess up is a character with a blaster running through a mine they are aware of to get into melee combat with someone. Then half the time they run back so they are in range combat. Yea, natural selection failed in the Star Wars universe.

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

NWN's AI is 100x better than KOTOR1 or 2. There is no comparison. Only someone who thinks 3rd eprosn view is going out of style would be dumb enough to suggest otherwise.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

In your dreams. NwN's AI sucked thats the only way to put it. It shipped broken with regards to spell casting and even now (hotu) it cant switch between melee and ranged weapons.

 

Still keep the laughs coming it's obvious you have given up on being taken seriously and just play your new troll role these days.

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

My favorite AI mess up is a character with a blaster running through a mine they are aware of to get into melee combat with someone. Then half the time they run back so they are in range combat.  Yea, natural selection failed in the Star Wars universe.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Thats why you have a stationary AI, it's intended for use around mines. If there wasnt one I would share you pain. But not knowing what the AI states do is really something you have to take responsibility for Obsidian can only provide the "tools".

[Volourn]

"It shipped broken with regards to spell casting and even now (hotu) it cant switch between melee and ranged weapons."

 

You've been caught. HOTU,a nd even SOU it does switch weapons. Nice try though. Shadow Troll.

 

 

"Still keep the laughs coming it's obvious you have given up on being taken seriously and just play your new troll role these days."

 

Taken serious by who? You? Sorry, but I don't worry what someone who thinks 3rd person games will be dead soon takes seriously.

 

Keep up the entertainment.

 

P.S. Staionary AI in KOTOR2 simply does not work. Period.

[bob_the_kitty_hunter]

I HATED it on Goto's cruiser on the second time through. ATTON kept on running around everywhere, and when I noticed that he wasn't around, he was surrounded by a gabajillion droids. He also set off almost all the mines I'm surprised he didn't die once.