combat - too easy? >>>POSSIBLE SPOILERS<<<

[stoo]

I'm not sure, but: >>>POSSIBLE SPOILERS<<<

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Did anyone else find combat WAY too easy, even on hard difficulty level? Playing as a Jedi Watchman (LS of course), I just finished the game and fought through all the bad guys, and none of them could ever bring my health below 75%. BTW, weren't such 'boss' opponents weak, plain and personality-less (sum1 plz gimme Malak back!!!)?

 

Also, after I got Force Wave, I could easily dispatch tons of opponents (non-boss ones) just by running around and getting surrounded by them all (up to 20, or more), and then 'spamming' wave after wave. The ones who didn't get killed by my waves, were stunned anyways and promptly done by my party members.

 

Also, I find Force Enlightment kinda overpowered (using it, I ran through the last part of the game with more than 60 AC - making me virtually untouchable, unless my opponents scored a natural 20 on their to-hit roll).

[KingofThieves]

I don't think the combat is meant to be challenging, but fun. And it is fun.

 

And the problem isn't whether your saber and force powers are overpowered. Towards the end of the game you are a very high level, as you should be, power is inevitable. You should do a devilish amount of damage, and the enemies you face should scale to deal with it.

 

What bothers me a bit is that the enemies don't scale. I'm not upset by the drones of sith assassins and other generic enemies posing no real threat to you, for jedi heroes should- in theory- be able to cut through all minions with a relative ease. It's the way the sith lords and jedi masters seem like they would be more befitting to challenge a level a shade below what you are when you face them.

[stoo]

I don't think the combat is meant to be challenging, but fun. And it is fun.

 

And the problem isn't whether your saber and force powers are overpowered. Towards the end of the game you are a very high level, as you should be, power is inevitable. You should do a devilish amount of damage, and the enemies you face should scale to deal with it. 

 

What bothers me a bit is that the enemies don't scale. I'm not upset by the drones of sith assassins and other generic enemies posing no real threat to you, for jedi heroes should- in theory- be able to cut through all minions with a relative ease. It's the way the sith lords and jedi masters seem like they would be more befitting to challenge a level a shade below what you are when you face them.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

- Well, maybe it's just me, but grinding helpless hordes of Sith-wannabes ain't much fun (just boring/repetitive), as long as they don't pose a decent threat/challenge.

 

- It's ok being a very powerful Jedi/Sith in the end of the game but, again, that should be aimed to defeating some MAJOR threat/opponent.

 

- AI Scaling: that's the point. Opponents should spawn in number and difficulty related to the PC's level (and diff settings, of course).

 

well IMO anyways.

[roflolocopter]

Yeh this game is stupidly easy and the combat loses any sense of fun by the end. There is a mod around here that makes the game a bit harder and more fun. Check some of the older posts.

 

You should be presented with some sort of tactical challenge on hard difficulty, those who like just staring at a screen and repeatedly clicking 'master flurry' and 'master force speed' is what the easy option is for <_<

 

KOTOR1 wasnt exactly hard either but they seem to have lowered the difficulty even further partly through the stupid speed at which you lvl.

[stoo]

Yeh this game is stupidly easy and the combat loses any sense of fun by the end. There is a mod around here that makes the game a bit harder and more fun.  Check some of the older posts.

 

You should be presented with some sort of tactical challenge on hard difficulty, those who like just staring at a screen and repeatedly clicking 'master flurry' and 'master force speed' is what the easy option is for  <_<

 

KOTOR1 wasnt exactly hard either but they seem to have lowered the difficulty even further partly through the stupid speed at which you lvl.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Yeah, that's what I mean. I can easily get through all k2 in solo mode, masterflurrying everything in my way, without even having to heal or shield myself. k1 required somewhat more teamwork (which doesn't really work in k2, 'coz the AI manages party members really bad -eg: I often had Kreia in my party with 'jedi support' behaviour hoping she would buff the whole party, and she always was the first one to rush to enemies trying to whack them with her poorly upgraded lightsaber-).

[Icon]

The only time combat was hard in K1 was on Taris, and thats because I kept my character at lvl 2 to get more Jedi class lvls on Dantooine. Malak was a pushover, and the Star Forge run was actually easier solo than if you took party members. K2 is simply more of the same. Nothing wrong with that.

 

The thing to keep in mind is that this is a RolePlaying game, not a first person shooter. You have to expect more story than challenging combat. As for the ending combat being easy and monotonous, keep in mind that the ending was rushed. I would think that during all that combat there would've been a lot of party member based stuff inserted between all the killing.

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

The thing to keep in mind is that this is a RolePlaying game, not a first person shooter. You have to expect more story than challenging combat. As for the ending combat being easy and monotonous, keep in mind that the ending was rushed. I would think that during all that combat there would've been a lot of party member based stuff inserted between all the killing.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

The end just flet like the Star Forge really.

 

All it really needed was a scene to tie up lose up ends. For the Exile to say.

 

"I created Malachor V this is my fight"!

 

"Take what you have learned from me and teach others"

 

"Rekindle the Jedi flame my friends, where I go you cannot follow".

 

 

Then he turns with a flourish and boards the Ebon Hawk. Folowed by T3 and not noticing the stealthed figures of GOTO and Mira.

 

Everyone waves Haindmaiden can just be seen with moist eyes and Vissas lowers her head to hide her tears.

 

(Thats my LS interlude I pop in before the ship departs for M5).

 

Yes the combat is easy. But so was KOTOR. You do have the ability to make it even easier here because of the craft system though.

[stoo]

The thing to keep in mind is that this is a RolePlaying game, not a first person shooter.

 

It is funny that you say this, when you openly admit to be saving levels until late to take more levels as a jedi (= powerplay = opposite of role playing)...

 

 

You have to expect more story than challenging combat.

 

Neverwinter Nights - great story, great combat

Gothic II - great story, great combat

Icewind Dale - great story, great combat

 

and I could go on forever providing examples of well balanced games. However easy, Malak was by far more challenging (and charismatic as a bad guy) than X, Y and Z (the thee k2 bosses, which I don't want to spoil).

 

 

As for the ending combat being easy and monotonous, keep in mind that the ending was rushed. I would think that during all that combat there would've been a lot of party member based stuff inserted between all the killing.

 

Unfortunately, my opinion is based on how the game is, not on how it should/would have been. So, combat is too easy.

 

 

I'm sorry if this sounds flame-ish, but, well, nothing personal, no offense meant, and IMHO of course. :]

[Master_Splinter]

Yeah, it would have been nice to have challenging combat. I've never understood why they have 3 difficulty settings that are all easy. I'll say it one more time...If you're going to have three levels of difficulty, then the hardest difficulty better be really really hard." That doesn't affect the game, if people get stuck they can easily turn down the difficulty. Kotor 1 had the same problem, too easy, don't try to blame this on Obsidian.

 

It's frustrating, but it didn't make my opinion of the game go down that much. This game is just as good as Kotor 1, if not better. Take into account also that this was Obsidian's first game, and they chose it to be the sequel to the game of the year. Add in the time constraints that were forced upon them, and you realize how great of a job Obsidian did making this game.

 

Keep it up obsidian

[roflolocopter]

Baldurs Gate 1 +2 had the difficulty done perfectly. My first time through I didnt have a clue about DnD rules, so i whacked the game on easy for quite a while and it was still challenging as I learned the ropes. Once I got competant I put it up to core-rules and then difficult which provided a great tactical challenge in many of the fights. The point is it required very little input from the developers to make a gameplay choice that suited all tastes and also greatly improves replayability. BG also had a better story in many ways so there's no excuse.

 

However you want to look at it, or make excuses like, 'well I just play an RPG for the story', the combat in KOTOR is a joke on difficult. Its still kind of fun in parts but gets old pretty quick. The story does carry you through for much of it though but there are games which provide both.

[stoo]

[text snip] However you want to look at it, or make excuses like, 'well I just play an RPG for the story', the combat in KOTOR is a joke on difficult. Its still kind of fun in parts but gets old pretty quick. The story does carry you through for much of it though but there are games which provide both.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

That's exactly what I meant. Nicely said. In RPG's, combat IS part of the story, and the two must exist in harmony. In k2, combat quickly becomes some kind of boring, spammy, sidegame, a sort of annoying game part which I just wanted to end asap due to its futility and lack of challenge/meaning/fun.

 

edit - once and for all, time costraints ain't no ecxuse for releasing a buggy, unfinished, pre-alpha game. It's not up to me to say, buy what the hell, if they were given small time they could increase their personnel on the project, or hire more people, or god knows what else (I am little into marketing, but have been working some years as a programmer, so I know something about completing projects within given deadlines). At least, they could come up with something better (holy crap, what have they been doing since November, when xbox version was released?). That's their job.

This said, I want to make clear that I hold no grudge to OE (I'm still going to BUY nwn2, or kotor3 if they will be the ones making it), neither I do blame them for the quality of the product: honestly, I believe LA (with their new game policies) is to be held the main responsible for all the crap which was attached to this game.

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

That's exactly what I meant. Nicely said. In RPG's, combat IS part of the story, and the two must exist in harmony. In k2, combat quickly becomes some kind of boring, spammy, sidegame, a sort of annoying game part which I just wanted to end asap due to its futility and lack of challenge/meaning/fun.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Jedi are just super powerful. It's like having a fighter/magic user/cleric all rolled into one with none of penalties and all the classes at level 20. As KOTOR was exactly the same the only real solution is to re examine and rewrite the rules.

[stoo]

Jedi are just super powerful. It's like having a fighter/magic user/cleric all rolled into one with none of penalties and all the classes at level 20. As KOTOR was exactly the same the only real solution is to re examine and rewrite the rules.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Honestly, this is more about spawn calibration... No need to go change the rules (which would need some polishing, tho), it was enough to, say, give 5 more levels to all big bosses and 1 or 2 to most common opponents. Well, this is just a quick 'n' cheap solution. Of course more testing, tweaking and stuff would have done the game great good, in terms of balance (and else).

 

-IMHO-

[roflolocopter]

They seem to have made Jedi far more powerful than they were in the films though. Also they just dont place you against difficult odds often, with a couple of exceptions.

Reducing your AC vs multiple opponents would help, also slowing down the lvl speeds, ive said that before but its just ridiculous how fast you lvl.

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

They seem to have made Jedi far more powerful than they were in the films though. Also they just dont place you against difficult odds often, with a couple of exceptions.

Reducing your AC vs multiple opponents would help, also slowing down the lvl speeds, ive said that before but its just ridiculous how fast you lvl.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

In the films they dont use force powers so much.

 

A diablo II skill system would work so much better than what their is now.

 

You shouldnt find yourself buying force powers you dont want because it's the only way to get off the screen.

 

There is no such thing as difficult odds once you get force wave or force storm...

 

The multi strike powers need to be toned down. The durations on stuns need to be tonned down so that stun dosnt equal very very dead.

 

Charging into the middle of 15 or so bad guys and unleashing forcewave is just too effective.

[Rosbjerg]

KOTOR1 already had a much too high power level..

 

I would say: shave off 10-15 levels .. it's ridiculous to imagine a lvl 25-30 Jedi running around, at that level he should be able to 'force kill' the universe!! :ph34r: ..

I mean if nihilus could suck the life out of an entire planet, and I could sneeze on him thus casuing him to die! what am I then able to do??

 

 

I slaughtered everyone with force lightning as my Jedi Master .. and without ever breaking a sweat (force points speaking)! I mean taking down 10+ opponents around you in 10 seconds (or less) seems a bit extreme ..

 

and then you have 3 people able to do it!!

[stoo]

KOTOR1 already had a much too high power level..

 

I would say: shave off 10-15 levels .. it's ridiculous to imagine a lvl 25-30 Jedi running around, at that level he should be able to 'force kill' the universe!!  :ph34r: .. but I could imagine a lvl 15 (which is still high!) Jedi/Sith challenging the powers of the galaxy..

 

I slaughtered everyone with force lightning as my Jedi Master .. and without ever breaking a sweat (force points speaking)! I mean taking down 10+ opponents around you in 10 seconds (or less) seems a bit extreme ..

 

and then you have 3 people able to do it!!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

More (said already, possibly):

 

- as a Sentinel/Watchman, I could easily dispatch large groups of opponents just spamming Force Waves. Like 20 foes down in 3 combat rounds, without even taking a scratch and still having more than 90% of my force points.

 

- always a Sentinel/Watchman, none of the three big bad guys/gals survived the 2nd round in combat, and I had not even upgraded my sabers to their best. None of them even tried using any buff or force power on me. Again, not a scratch taken (AC63 with buffs).

 

 

- again as a Sent/Watch, Atris too was done in 1 round, which ain't much for one of the last jedi, who's spent her last 5 years training 6 hot sisters in the art of non-force fighting

 

[Rosbjerg]

^ yeah?

 

but my dad can beat yours!!

[roflolocopter]

Maybe removing AOE powers or at least seriously toning them down would help a lot, still even without using them the game is too easy.

[Bastilla_Skywalker]

Man I laughed at Darth Nihlihis lol he was called a sith lord? LOL Darth Nilihis was weak lol....by the time you each him you are almost a uber god jedi lol....

[pharcyde]

Man I laughed at Darth Nihlihis lol he was called a sith lord?    LOL Darth Nilihis was weak lol....by the time you each him you are almost a uber god jedi lol....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

4 lol's and a lol smile in 1 post.

[Kayn]

Ehm...

 

Visas shouldn't hide her tears...

 

She is a Miraluka, and Miraluka haven't eyes at all... <.<

[Zach Morris]

My little brother is playing TSL now. He couldn't get out of the Vulkars base in KOTOR. He kept dying and gave up. He is now 15 hours in on TSL and is on his way to his second planet choice with no dying at all. I think that alone goes to show the "difficulty" in TSL.

[Galactic Hub]

They seem to have made Jedi far more powerful than they were in the films though. Also they just dont place you against difficult odds often, with a couple of exceptions.

Reducing your AC vs multiple opponents would help, also slowing down the lvl speeds, ive said that before but its just ridiculous how fast you lvl.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

yes but as i recall all bar yoda/palpatine/dooku were gaurdians so they never really had the ability to use those nifty AoE powers. Agreed tho they do need to be toned down just abit. I also agree with the selecting of useless powers cause theres no option to store like skills is crap. nothing i hate more than scrolling thru that damn bar and clicking on the wrong damned one(i play without the auto pause it forces me to actually watch wat im doing....to a degree ).

 

just curious who maxes the upgrades on lightsabres tho. thus far ive only bothered with the crystals nothing more.

[CrashT]

Combat was overall too easy. Weirdly some people still seemed to be annoyed that their Jedi character wasn't Jedi like enough... I mean I'm a Jedi Sentinal\Jedi Watchman and I'm pratically a god.

 

But just about everything in KoTOR2 was a little too easy. I always had more money than I could every need, more Chemicals than I could ever use and more components than I could ever do anything with. But can I find a single Cyan or Silver Lightsaber crystal? Can I heck.