Things I liked about TSL

[MaglorD]

Sith Cave on Korriban

--------------------------

 

I found it one of the best parts of the game. I mean seeing Malak before he fell to the dark side...unblemished and full of conviction about his cause, which ultimately led to his downfall.

 

Also the scene when those republic soldiers were pleading with the general about the impossible odds they faced and how as the general I made the right choice to go alone and how grateful they were...it just seemed so eerie and real...in the sense that we all have our ghosts of the past to confront.

 

Mandalorians

---------------

 

TSL put Mandalorians in a different light. Almost like they were pawns used by the dark side of the Force to bring about the destruction of the Jedi. The very qualities they admire such as battle prowess and their honour system were manipulated by the Force into fruition as the Mandalorian Wars. Yet in spite of all that they were-a great warring nation of the highest order-we know from SW that their people and their world, Malachor V, were wiped out from the face of the galaxy and became but a memory in the inexorable progress of time.

 

The Ravager was another reminder of the glorious past of the Mandalorians. I recall the scene when one of the proton torpedoes prematurely detonated and the Mandalorian crying out "we have failed you again, Mandalore". Could he have been referring to their defeat at Malachor V? The irony of course was then they were probably trying to save the vessel of Mandalorian construction than destroy it.

 

How can one not feel a sense of pity for the Mandalorians? We have Canderous as Mandalore and his inability to forget the past, trying to reclaim a piece of it as evidenced in "it will just be like old times".

 

 

Darth Sion

------------

 

Another poor soul. A man so damaged and in such pain and yet trudges on for no particular reason. A man so jealous his former master would love the exile instead of him..."what does she see in you?"

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

I was thinking how much you must have sucked on Malacor V not to have destroy droid and nuke the mine field...

 

It didnt really make a whole lot of sense.

 

If you play a female character Sion says he loved you. Although it dosnt go into who he was before he fell.

 

Kreia and the Exile are kindred spirits. She was cut off from the force and the Exile turned his back on it. She wanted to "kill" the force and the exile was the only one who could make that possible.

 

Kreia was incredibly well done and whoever voiced her did an excelent job. Every time I met with her I would come out feeling tainted and seeing her point of view just a bit more..

[MaglorD]

I was thinking how much you must have sucked on Malacor V not to have destroy droid and nuke the mine field...

 

It didnt really make a whole lot of sense.

 

I guess if you were playing LS, you'd probably have destroy droid anyway. Towards the end, I had so many excess powers I invested in horror even though I was LS.

 

If you play a female character Sion says he loved you. Although it dosnt go into who he was before he fell.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

That's interesting. Sounds like he lost a lot.

[Sabahattin Dere]

A little off topic, but a minor point that I could bring up concerning what I liked is that the character names perhaps made more sense, this time. As I recall nobody was able to make something out of the names "Malak" and "Revan"; though this time there were some solid connotations.

 

Traya---------------> Traitor?

Nihilus--------------> Obvious, this name

Visas Marr---------->Someone on the boards suggested VISion MARRed which makes sense, I think

Sion-----------------> This might be far fetched, but because he believed he was the 'chosen apprentice'?

Atris-----------------> Adapted from the Latin word for 'unfortunate' or 'gloomy'

Hanharr-------------> The type of name that a Wookie can pronounce

 

any ideas for Bao-Dur? "Dur" could suggest strong, or solid.

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

A little off topic, but a minor point that I could bring up concerning what I liked is that the character names perhaps made more sense, this time. As I recall nobody was able to make something out of the names "Malak" and "Revan"; though this time there were some solid connotations.

 

Traya---------------> Traitor?

Nihilus--------------> Obvious, this name

Visas Marr---------->Someone on the boards suggested VISion MARRed which makes sense, I think

Sion-----------------> This might be far fetched, but because he believed he was the 'chosen apprentice'?

Atris-----------------> Adapted from the Latin word for 'unfortunate' or 'gloomy'

Hanharr-------------> The type of name that a Wookie can pronounce

 

any ideas for Bao-Dur? "Dur" could suggest strong, or solid.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Darth Traya is the Betrayer.

[Aegis]

KotOR2 sadly have very few moments where I really got involved. However, there was one that I clearly remember when facing Nihilus. I don't think there are many people that see it the way I did, but I really liked it.

 

I'll mask it, just in case someone hasn't done it yet and actually would like it as much as I did:

 

The moment was just after you've beaten him, when Visas demask Nihilus. It's not much to look at maybe, but when you ask what she saw and she replies "just a man", I read a lot from that simple line. It was a shame they included the meditation chamber just moments before, I think it would've been better to include that phase here. I was also quite upset that this was never developed further, it seemed like a major change in her character. Even something as cliche as her removing her veil (might require some changes in her previous dialogue about her people being blind, or dismissing that as a metaphor and that they blind themselves to connect to the force or something) would've been nice. I am rather curious about how she would look without that veil.

 

[Volourn]

"Sith Cave on Korriban"

 

Yes, I agree. That was nice. Same with the Mandolarians.

 

 

"Kreia and the Exile are kindred spirits."

 

You on crack? I was no kindred spirit of hers. I had absolutely nothing but a forced plot device connecting me to her.

 

She was a good character; but nowhere near as enviable as some claim. Great voice, however. And, only the most corrupt could eat the garbage she was shovelling out espicially at the end. She is very much Dark Side. She oozes Hate for Everything. When she said she loved me, I wanted to puke.

 

 

That is all.

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

You on crack? I was no kindred spirit of hers. I had absolutely nothing but a forced plot device connecting me to her.

 

She was a good character; but nowhere near as enviable as some claim. Great voice, however. And, only the most corrupt could eat the garbage she was shovelling out espicially at the end. She is very much Dark Side. She oozes Hate for Everything. When she said she loved me, I wanted to puke.

 

 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Looks like you missed the subtlties. Starting to see why you are such a Bioware fanboy now :D

[NeverwinterKnight]

places i liked:

 

sith cave on korriban:

-loved this part. interesting to see the "history" behind a few events mentioned throughout both games. although malak was a bigger weenie than i thought when he still had his jaw.

 

dxun/onderon:

-my favorite of all the planets. i thought it was cool how the planet had its own problems that didnt necessarily have to do with my pc or the sith/republic conflict (although both played a part in determining which side won).

-learning more about the mandalorians was good

 

nar shadaa:

-seemed like the "largest" planet. i enjoyed the stuff with the exchange and the bounty hunters. it was also interesting to actually get to "play" a planet that ive read about so often in eu novels.

 

telos:

-some interesting stuff, especially atris' academy and the stuff with czerka and the exchange. im a big fan of seeing the "minor" factions have conflict that help give you a break from the republic/sith conflict.

 

characters i liked:

 

kreia:

-most indepth character in the game. i loved the voice acting and i really enjoyed the character. sure she was transparent early on, it was obvious who she was, but not quite so obvious until the end why she did the things she did.

 

mira:

-im just a sucker for the spunky redhead with the rocket launcher. sue me.

 

handmaiden:

-interesting backstory, especially about her mother/father and her "roots".

 

visas:

-tragic story. but an interesting backstory. shes the only reason that darth nihilus is even fleshed out at all. if it werent for visas and her dialogue wed know next to nothing about nihilus.

 

atton:

-i liked him MUCH better than carth (hes kotor2s version of carth). his backstory wasnt spectacular, but i thought the character itself, with his sarcasm and whatnot, was more entertaining than carths whining.

[random evil guy]

places i liked:

 

 

nar shadaa:

-seemed like the "largest" planet.  i enjoyed the stuff with the exchange and the bounty hunters.  it was also interesting to actually get to "play" a planet that ive read about so often in eu novels.

 

hm, i think i messed up at nar shadaa. i basically just walked around slaughtering everyone in sight and i was a light side character... :">

[Volourn]

"Looks like you missed the subtlties. Starting to see why you are such a Bioware fanboy now"

 

Kreia was not subtle. She was blunt to the point it was obviously you'd be fighting her at the end. As for ehr motivations; it wook awhile; but one can tell how she reacted to the other Jedi when you met them that she did not have a positive view of the force. Sorry, not complex or deep at all.

 

My fave planets were Nar Shadda, Dantooine, and Telos. Korriban was just behind. Malchhoir V, Peragus, and Onderron were not so good.

 

My face characters were Handmaiden, Kreia (yes, amazingly), Bao Dur, the little droid whose name I always forget. My most hted npcs were the whiny Atony and the carpet daddy loving Mira.

[NeverwinterKnight]

the carpet daddy loving Mira.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

not to be a broken record (ok i will be) but why do you keep calling mira that? thats not her backstory at all. she does not "love" hanharr and her backstory, quite frankly, has nothing to do with hanharr. he just happens to be someone she saved from death and thus owes her a life debt.

[Volourn]

"not to be a broken record (ok i will be) but why do you keep calling mira that?"

 

I know it isn't. I'm just making fun of a character I dislike immensely. Geez. I'd think you'd know that. Afterall, I seriosuly doubt even Obsidian and their love for 'depth' and 'complexity' would include a character whose had sex with a walking carpet or her dad. <>

[NeverwinterKnight]

I know it isn't. I'm just making fun of a character I dislike immensely. Geez. I'd think you'd know that. Afterall, I seriosuly doubt even Obsidian and their love for 'depth' and 'complexity' would include a character whose had sex with a walking carpet or her dad. <>

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

well youve stated you barely use her. so i wasnt sure if you actually knew her backstory since the only thing you really learn about her without using her in your party or talking to her is that, for some reason, hanharr has a life debt with her, but seems to want to kill her too.

 

i just wasnt sure if you actually thought her entire backstory was hanharr related or not.

[Volourn]

"well youve stated you barely use her. so i wasnt sure if you actually knew her backstory since the only thing you really learn about her without using her in your party or talking to her is that, for some reason, hanharr has a life debt with her, but seems to want to kill her too.

 

i just wasnt sure if you actually thought her entire backstory was hanharr related or not."

 

I probably didn't learn *everything* about her; but I know that her backstory is more than Hanharr. I learned about he rparents though actually I can't even quite remmeber. I beleive they died on a planet (Malichor V or whatever?) and she was captured by Mandolarians I beleive and they trained her in the art of combat until she got her freedom. I think that wa shers. I can't remember now as it all happened during one convo on the Ebon HAWK... <>>>>>>>>> oWW.. She, of cours,e became a bounty hounter and that's when she encountered Hanharr.

[Carrie]

They captured her long before, the Mandalorians she was with essentially became her adopted family, even if she started as a slave. That's the family she lost at Malachor.

[Volourn]

Meh. Got the sequence mixed up.. <> Thanks for the clear up.

[Tanuvein]

"Sith Cave on Korriban"

 

Yes, I agree. That was nice. Same with the Mandolarians.

 

 

"Kreia and the Exile are kindred spirits."

 

You on crack? I was no kindred spirit of hers. I had absolutely nothing but a forced plot device connecting me to her.

 

She was a good character; but nowhere near as enviable as some claim. Great voice, however. And, only the most corrupt could eat the garbage she was shovelling out espicially at the end. She is very much Dark Side. She oozes Hate for Everything. When she said she loved me, I wanted to puke.

 

 

That is all.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

How is it that only the corrupt would listen to her? Most of what she said was true and as far as morals go, she was always very logical about it all.

[Volourn]

"How is it that only the corrupt would listen to her? Most of what she said was true and as far as morals go, she was always very logical about it all. "

 

Come on. Kreia was all about hate. Hate this, hate that, hate hate hate.

 

She looked down upon everyone and everything including the PC which is why she used, abused, and manipulated the PC.

 

Yes, often times she was logical. It's what I call spindoctoring. Kreia amde sure to spin everything to make her sound better than she truly was when in reality she was as crooked, spiteful, and fearful as they come.

 

Kreia had no good qualities outside of her obviously immense power.

[Tanuvein]

"How is it that only the corrupt would listen to her? Most of what she said was true and as far as morals go, she was always very logical about it all. "

 

Come on. Kreia was all about hate. Hate this, hate that, hate hate hate.

 

She looked down upon everyone and everything including the PC which is why she used, abused, and manipulated the PC.

 

Yes, often times she was logical. It's what I call spindoctoring. Kreia amde sure to spin everything to make her sound better than she truly was when in reality she was as crooked, spiteful, and fearful as they come.

 

Kreia had no good qualities outside of her obviously immense power.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I never got the impression she hated anyone but herself. She truly loved the player for his strength and how he survived without the force. I also got the impression she didn't really looks down on many people (other than Atton), she simply saw them as possible obstacles in the way of the Exiles growth. She was motherly to him, trying to teach him how to be what she considered the best person possible.

[SteveThaiBinh]

Kreia was unfortunately a little obvious. I think if you focus on what she says, she's obviously dark side. If you listen to the way she says it, the ambiguity is better. All credit to the voice actress who did a great job creating the character.

 

The same cannot be said for Malak in the temple. Even the presumably light-side Malak sounded slimy. I can't imagine any Jedi being won over by him. Guess Revan was the better recruiter.

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

Kreia was unfortunately a little obvious.  I think if you focus on what she says, she's obviously dark side.  If you listen to the way she says it, the ambiguity is better.  All credit to the voice actress who did a great job creating the character.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Oh thats obvious but what KOTOR II shows is there are different degrees to the darkside. Malak was the typical crush everything without thought type not very deep and about as subtle as a brick.

 

The code of the Sith is all about personal freedom , being no ones slave. Thats why Kreia "admired" the exile. They survived without the force and became stronger for it. Without the force she was nothing but a weak old woman who got her arse kicked by her apprentice. Your bonds can never be truly broken if your always going to be a slave to the force. And thats the truth that haunted her.

 

Being a slave of the force was something she could simply not abide which is why she wanted it destroyed.

 

Nihilus is a creature of instinct who's only instinct is to feed. Sion seeks to bring the pain of his existence to everyone else. All three of them hated the Jedi but Kreia moved too slowly for the other two.

 

In both cases they were only kept alive by their force link. Kreia too if the "end" sequence is anything to go by. She dosnt fall over when you "kill" her either.

[SteveThaiBinh]

Destroying the force, and liberating the galaxy from its enslavement, would be a noble, 'light-side' endeavour. Preserving the force, which binds all life together, equally so. Which option should a true Jedi choose?

 

I think the game dodges the question by making Kreia an evil Sith. The code of the Sith is that personal freedom can only be achieved through the enslavement of others, and like all good pyramid cons, the only truly free person is the one at the top. Kreia is a different type of evil than the insane, bloodthirsty Malak, but is not less evil. She manipulates people, and in so doing denies them the freedom that she wants so much for herself.

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

Destroying the force, and liberating the galaxy from its enslavement, would be a noble, 'light-side' endeavour.  Preserving the force, which binds all life together, equally so.  Which option should a true Jedi choose?

 

I think the game dodges the question by making Kreia an evil Sith.  The code of the Sith is that personal freedom can only be achieved through the enslavement of others, and like all good pyramid cons, the only truly free person is the one at the top.  Kreia is a different type of evil than the insane, bloodthirsty Malak, but is not less evil.  She manipulates people, and in so doing denies them the freedom that she wants so much for herself.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Like many things in SW it all depends on your point of view. Bare in mind that most people wont surivive to appreciate the "freedom" and most people dont believe that the force is an entity which guides their destiny.

 

"Look kid I've been from one side of the Galaxy to the other..."

 

Kreia makes you strong enough to face the perils and survive. Shes certainly not altruistic as she has her own agender but every Sith knows that one day their apprentice will try to take them down. But by teaching the apprentice to be stronger than they are they make the whole stronger. Its kinda like Darwinism.

 

The Jedi on the other hand hide from and deny their emotions and train their students to do the same. "Oh look here is the death of the force incarnate" lets send it away where it wont do any damage"...

 

What none of the KOTOR games really seem to nail is how the darkside takes control of you. In KOTOR the darkside isnt faster and since you can be as pure as the driven snow and still toss around force lightning it dosnt really fit...

[Trauma Biscuit]

In KOTOR the darkside isnt faster and since you can be as pure as the driven snow and still toss around force lightning it dosnt really fit...

I was reading one of the SW EU novels a while ago (don't ask which one, as I can't remember to save my life) but Luke was talking to some girl, and explaining the Force. The summary of what he was saying seemed to be, "The Force isn't good or bad--it just is. What seperates Sith and Jedi is how they use the Force."

 

So, I would imagine that so long as you're not being super evil in your intent, you could use powers that would normally be considered Dark Side without actually being Dark Side.

 

Maybe.