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All I was doing was asking a question in the spoilers forum expecting answers, not to be insulted.

come off your martyr attitude. you werent asking questions, you were making a statement that the game was incomplete.

 

had you said "hey, did anyone get attons back story? i was never able to get it" it would have been different. but you made it more of a "attons story was never told! this game is broken!". see the difference between asking a question and making an uninformed statement?

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whatever. All Atton talks about is Pazaak, and I never got any negative influence with him. There was one time I got something to talk about after some people knew him on that refugee place, but I got influence failure. Even after never getting any loss of influence from him.

 

Are you saying this game is complete? You are high.

 

... It's not a matter of negative influence, Osiris, you just need more. If you had more than a couple skeletons in your closet, would you launch into an hours-long spiel about your super sekkrit uber dark past to a virtual stranger? No, you'd wait until you developed a, perhaps mutual, level of respect and/or understanding for him/her/it before you devulge your life story to him/her/it. That's bascially what the influence system is; it doesn't perfectly emulate what you get in life, but it works, for the most part. You just didn't try hard enough to make it work, that's all.

 

Jedi Reaven: You really should have asked elsewhere, but regardless... :ermm:

I can't recall the name of a robe that matches your description off hand, and it really wouldn't help much, anyway, seeing as how loot is randomly generated in this game. Sorry.

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Don't worry about it. You'll get oddles of other robes eventually, just keep looting every corpse/crate you see.

Now that I think about it, though, the Baran De Novice robes look pretty close to what Obi wears. They aren't particularly good, though, so wait for the Ossus Keeper robes: Better stats, similar look.

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I mostly liked the ending, i have prefered a less dark one for the LS but is just my taste, is also true that there are some unfinished things...

 

In the last dialogue with Kreia she mention 3 possible choices, but actually we don't get them.

 

Goto doesn't want to blow up the planet and seem to stop the drone but we see the destroyed planet in LS ending whitout knowing what really happened there.

 

Mira is another, we see her walk toward the academy after confronting her enemy, but we don't know where she went, we just know that she will survive as Kreia will talk about her.

 

we don't know what is happening on Malachor, i had the impression that the player was almost alone in the ebon hawk when he "landed", with Mira that followed him by her own (the dialogue when Sion ask if the exile is alone and Kreia point that Mira is "after him" due to her ability to find "lost" things)

 

even Atris destiny is obscure, it seem that she died in the Kreia vision and actually she felt and the handmaiden "replace" her as archive historican, but as i spared her life and tried to redeem her it doesn't seem she really died.

 

and there are also some incompleted plot during game, probably mostly due to the cut of the rumored droid planet.

 

I suspect that HK factory and Goto secret base where supposed to be there.

 

 

 

I really enjoyed the game, and i think the main plot is well written and "orchestrated", just a bit sad that the game is not developed at full potential due to these "missing stories" and maybe a bit more interaction with "secondary" party chars.

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ive beaten the game as both ls and ds, and as both male and female.  ive seen and heard every backstory available.

 

having said that, dont get your panties in a bunch.  i never said ALL of you are whiners or that ALL of your points had no validity.  i was referring SPECIFICALLY to the guy i quoted, since all his questions were atleast touched upon during one point or another, especially his complaining about us never learning about attons backstory, which is completely false.

 

also, you have to play through ALL aspects.  unless i  misread what you said, youve only played through as ds (and im assuming male), which wont give you the entire story.  no offense, but dont blame the game for not answering questions you had when, in fact, it does answer a good portion of them (not all), if you play out all the options.

 

No offense, but you missed my point. I should not have to play through "ALL" aspects of the game, to get and understand MAIN PLOT POINTS. Almost all of Osiris's questions are valid, I had the same ones and I played thourouly through DS Male. I will certainly blame the game for leaving out main plot points and piecing together a fractured end game with details and situations that do not make sense or are left out. I should not have to go searching and replay the game 10 times to find out the main plot and why my character is going where, I should only have to do that if I wanted to get every dialouge in the entire game with full backstories, which I'm guessing you pretty much did. Many of our main plot answers may be hidden deep somewhere in the game, but they should be at the surface.

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No offense, but you missed my point. I should not have to play through "ALL" aspects of the game, to get and understand MAIN PLOT POINTS. Almost all of Osiris's questions are valid, I had the same ones and I played thourouly through DS Male. I will certainly blame the game for leaving out main plot points and piecing together a fractured end game with details and situations that do not make sense or are left out. I should not have to go searching and replay the game 10 times to find out the main plot and why my character is going where, I should only have to do that if I wanted to get every dialouge in the entire game with full backstories, which I'm guessing you pretty much did. Many of our main plot answers may be hidden deep somewhere in the game, but they should be at the surface.

 

but thats what i dont get. people go on and on about the "greatness" of games like fallout and baldurs gate and planescape torment (and they are great), but you dont find out everything there is to know in those games during ONE play through, yet people expect differently with kotor2 and then complain about it?

 

and all i ever had exception to was osiris's insistance that these answers can NOT be found (ie. never answered) when in fact they were, albeit during a different play through.

 

it just seems to me that the kotor series is damned if they do, damned if the dont. if the story is too complex for one play through, people complain about that. if the story is too simple that everything is spoonfed in one play through, people complain its such a childrens game.

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No offense, but you missed my point. I should not have to play through "ALL" aspects of the game, to get and understand MAIN PLOT POINTS. Almost all of Osiris's questions are valid, I had the same ones and I played thourouly through DS Male. I will certainly blame the game for leaving out main plot points and piecing together a fractured end game with details and situations that do not make sense or are left out. I should not have to go searching and replay the game 10 times to find out the main plot and why my character is going where, I should only have to do that if I wanted to get every dialouge in the entire game with full backstories, which I'm guessing you pretty much did. Many of our main plot answers may be hidden deep somewhere in the game, but they should be at the surface.

 

Exactly. Personally, I wasn't upset that I didn't get every character's back story on the first play though or even with the ending where Kreia predicts everyone's future. In fact, I expected there to be things that I missed. But a plot where people are confused as to what the hell is happening in the main story line is just poor game design.

 

After Dantooine, I had no idea what the hell was going on. Heck, I didn't even know I was on Malachor V in the end until I looked at the map. I have no idea really what happened at Malachor V that was so traumatic (other than a lot of people dying - which is typical in a battle), or why my character suddenly decided to go there which is a major plot point. I shouldn't have to play a game several times to figure this out or for the game to make sense.

 

I feel that I played the game pretty thoroughly. It took me 40-50 hours to finish the game, but at the end I was simply confused. It

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After Dantooine, I had no idea what the hell was going on.  Heck, I didn't even know I was on Malachor V in the end until I looked at the map.  I have no idea really what happened at Malachor V that was so traumatic (other than a lot of people dying - which is typical in a battle), or why my character suddenly decided to go there which is a major plot point.  I shouldn't have to play a game several times to figure this out or for the game to make sense.

 

I only played it through once and pretty much learned everything you guys talked about here.

 

As for your questions, apparently Baro-Dur made some sort of doomsday machine at the command (or at least, blessing) of the Exile. This completely destroyed the life of the planet. It was done because the Sith were ultimately destroying the forces of the Exile, and the planet was critical to Revan's success (though I never found out why it was important, they just kinda said it was).

 

My guess is that the weapon is what caused the void in the Force for everyone there, and what made Darth Nihilsm (or whateverh is name is) a hole in the Force like you, except he was still thriving to fill that hole with the power of Force sensitives, whereas you just learned to survive.

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A bit of a spoiler below.

 

This is an overall great game. My favorite part are the moral ambiguities presented between the light and dark sides of the force, thought the events with the Council and Kreia at the end of the game take away from this in giving the standard "light side good, dark side bad" set-up vindication: the Council was seemingly proven right in not rushing to war, as it always will be, and you were being manipulated by Kreia. It was much more interesting when the Dark Side was presented more as the darker aspects of the natural cycle of life, i.e. the Force, that were good in a Machievellian sort of way, with the true evil being the oblivion presented by the Sith and embodied by Darth Nihilus, the Council could make mistakes, and there was no great discinction between the Sith and Jedi in the eyes of the populace.

 

There are, however, several flaws. The bugs suck, but they will be patched, I would hope. Above all else, the game lacks polish. The ending is as hollow as the Exile, and outside of the that, while the explinations are all there, actually getting to them is not always apparent or easy.

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A bit of a spoiler below.

 

This is an overall great game. My favorite part are the moral ambiguities presented between the light and dark sides of the force, thought the events with the Council and Kreia at the end of the game take away from this in giving the standard "light side good, dark side bad" set-up vindication: the Council was seemingly proven right in not rushing to war, as it always will be, and you were being manipulated by Kreia. It was much more interesting when the Dark Side was presented more as the darker aspects of the natural cycle of life, i.e. the Force, that were good in a Machievellian sort of way, with the true evil being the oblivion presented by the Sith and embodied by Darth Nihilus, the Council could make mistakes, and there was no great discinction between the Sith and Jedi in the eyes of the populace.

 

There are, however, several flaws. The bugs suck, but they will be patched, I would hope. Above all else, the game lacks polish. The ending is as hollow as the Exile, and outside of the that, while the explinations are all there, actually getting to them is not always apparent or easy.

 

I didn't get the impression that Dark=Evil and the Jedi were good, at all. I continued to state, and some of the Masters agreed, that the Council was wrong. The council had made mistakes, and most weren't willing to admit it.

 

And Kreia was never Dark Side or Sith. She was neutral, as far as the Force was concerned. She had fallen in a different way. It wasn't the hate for others or pride that changed her, but the disgust with herself. She sought to end the Force, and no Sith would want that. The Force itself would not want that.

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A bit of a spoiler below.

 

This is an overall great game. My favorite part are the moral ambiguities presented between the light and dark sides of the force, thought the events with the Council and Kreia at the end of the game take away from this in giving the standard "light side good, dark side bad" set-up vindication: the Council was seemingly proven right in not rushing to war, as it always will be, and you were being manipulated by Kreia. It was much more interesting when the Dark Side was presented more as the darker aspects of the natural cycle of life, i.e. the Force, that were good in a Machievellian sort of way, with the true evil being the oblivion presented by the Sith and embodied by Darth Nihilus, the Council could make mistakes, and there was no great discinction between the Sith and Jedi in the eyes of the populace.

 

There are, however, several flaws. The bugs suck, but they will be patched, I would hope. Above all else, the game lacks polish. The ending is as hollow as the Exile, and outside of the that, while the explinations are all there, actually getting to them is not always apparent or easy.

 

I thought quite the opposite. When you consider what the remaining council members are doing, it becomes quite clear to me that the jedi council are just as evil as the Sith. After all, to a force sensitive, tearing away one's connection to the force would be something comparable to at best, blinding them, or at worst, raping them. From their comments (the process is painless, and so on), it is clear that they've done such things before. It is tantamount to torture, and no matter the motives, such actions are the actions of the dark side. If you happen to be playing a light side character, such a revalation that the council itself can commit such dark acts effectively vindicates your decision to go to war as the right thing to do. Even Revan, pre-amnesia at least, didn't go in for such personal acts. She was trying to save the galaxy, she spared people's lives and livelihoods (there are comments that she left infrasturctures intact, and presumably therefore left the workers so too), and she was the Dark Lord of the Sith. If the Dark Lord of the Sith can be a better person than members of the Jedi Council, what does that say?

Hawk! Eggplant! AWAKEN!

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Awful, incoherent, rushed ending...shoddy plat all around for the last quarter of the game. I've lost alot of faith in Obsidian as a developer.

Shoddy plot...what? An unfinished plot in many regards, sure, but shoddy? Yes there are a lot things that aren't spelled out well at the end, but almost all of those could have been simply time constraints. But I disagree with shoddy. I was enthralled throughout...and that is important. Yes it took me out of the game some because there were points where I had to go "how the heck did i get here, did i miss something?" But the plot tied everything together. I continue to look at the game as if it was unfinished, because it certainly looks that way.

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I like I'm sure alot of people really just didn't like the Exile much. The whole term siphon really bothered me. I always thought you needed a medallion or atleast some sort of bling bling to channel others force powers. The whole idea of being a leech, and the sith assassins ability to use others powers really is a leap I found my self unable to make

People laugh when I say that I think a jellyfish is one of the most beautiful things in the world. What they don't understand is, I mean a jellyfish with long, blond hair.

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As for your questions, apparently Baro-Dur made some sort of doomsday machine at the command (or at least, blessing) of the Exile. This completely destroyed the life of the planet. It was done because the Sith were ultimately destroying the forces of the Exile, and the planet was critical to Revan's success (though I never found out why it was important, they just kinda said it was).

 

My guess is that the weapon is what caused the void in the Force for everyone there, and what made Darth Nihilsm (or whateverh is name is) a hole in the Force like you, except he was still thriving to fill that hole with the power of Force sensitives, whereas you just learned to survive.

 

Ahhh... thank you... It makes much more sense now. I suspect that part of my problem was that I couldn't get influence with Bao-Dur, who probably tells the pc a lot of this.

 

As far as the plot went, I really loved it until the confrontation on Dantooine. I enjoyed the moral ambiguity that the game explores (are the Jedi actually helping people or was the order useless and stagnant) and the look into why Revan took the actions that s/he did. I just wish it would have been easier to get major game revelations, because I was scratching my head by the end of the game.

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whatever. All Atton talks about is Pazaak, and I never got any negative influence with him. There was one time I got something to talk about after some people knew him on that refugee place, but I got influence failure. Even after never getting any loss of influence from him.

 

Are you saying this game is complete? You are high.

 

By the way, there's some Twi'leks on Nar Shadaa that offer you information on Atton. Accept and then talk to Atton about this and it'll set you on his storyline.

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I felt almost exactly the same as you did at the end of the game, Prisoner.

 

I think part of my problem with this game was that I really did not like the main "You are a wound in the force" plot. I miss the simple, yet fun, Dark vs. Light. Star Wars is about the struggles of polar opposites, this game tried to blend the lines, in an effort to be unique and different, and I feel that it was Un-Star Wars like. I bought this game to get a Star Wars experiance, and at the end I felt short changed. Despite this, I still enjoyed most of the game, and it is fun up to the Dantooine Council point.

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On another level, the concept of corruption, of moral baggage weighing down the universe and cleansing it, is exactly what the Star Wars Expanded Universe is all about. After all, that's what Anakin Skywalker's there for - to put an end to it. We're seeing the buildup of imbalance in the Force that will bring about the need for the clean slate Anakin/Vader will bring.

 

The Jedi Council are not evil as such - they just have such a belief in the light side of the force, and in themselves as the representatives of that light side, that they see themselves as the only ones who can save the galaxy. They don't understand, as Kreia does, that the Exile could be the only one who could defeat Nihilus. They won't let the problem come to its' natural conclusion - they will step in, and try to fix it as best they can with their incomplete understanding, and in doing so doom everything. They rely on the Force to guide their actions - but as far as Nihilus and the Exile are concerned, they are blind on the matter and choose not to admit it. Kreia calls this arrogance, I choose to call it misplaced faith.

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No offense, but you missed my point. I should not have to play through "ALL" aspects of the game, to get and understand MAIN PLOT POINTS.

 

You ever play Planescape: Torment? If you don't max out Wisdom, Intelligence and Charisma, you practically miss out 1/2 of the background to the plot. And you might not ever find this out unless you are told or you do it by accident. And believe me, that game was deeper, more complex and more in need of exposition than KOTOR 2.

 

And yet, it's still a goddamn masterpiece. This not giving everything to you, right away, it's a Black Isle trademark is what it is. The reason it fails here is because there is not enough in KOTOR 2 besides the main plot to sustain you, unlike in Torment.

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On another level, the concept of corruption, of moral baggage weighing down the universe and cleansing it, is exactly what the Star Wars Expanded Universe is all about. After all, that's what Anakin Skywalker's there for - to put an end to it. We're seeing the buildup of imbalance in the Force that will bring about the need for the clean slate Anakin/Vader will bring.

 

The Jedi Council are not evil as such - they just have such a belief in the light side of the force, and in themselves as the representatives of that light side, that they see themselves as the only ones who can save the galaxy. They don't understand, as Kreia does, that the Exile could be the only one who could defeat Nihilus. They won't let the problem come to its' natural conclusion - they will step in, and try to fix it as best they can with their incomplete understanding, and in doing so doom everything. They rely on the Force to guide their actions - but as far as Nihilus and the Exile are concerned, they are blind on the matter and choose not to admit it. Kreia calls this arrogance, I choose to call it misplaced faith.

 

 

Yes, that alone. But when you add in something that in my opinion would have to be as emotionally damaging to a force sensitive as being raped, then I choose to call that the bullet train to the dark side.

Hawk! Eggplant! AWAKEN!

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