When KOTOR was created, was the TSL story in mind?

[Adan]

Think of Revan as Darth Vader and the Exile as Luke. The ESB and ROTJ belong to both Luke and Vader and both could be considered protagonists (depending on perspective). But a third protagonist would be problematic. I think the same thing is at work here. Let's finish Revan's story and also give the Exile the importance he deserves.

 

Exile is Revan's younger Brother, and the only human strong enough in the force to stop him/or turn him back

 

I think that would be cool

[Laozi]

It looks like they really screw up things with the "Revan went looking for the true Sith" crap. I hope Lucasarts told them they had to do it, because if Obsidian did it on their own then they really showed a lack of any sort of creativity. Unfortantly I think we are going to get some story like the only reason Revan was using the Star Forge to build ships and take over the Republic was too make the worlds he loved strong enough to resist the "True Sith". God that'd be as crappy as having to fight Markos Ragnos' ghost or something. This is getting worse then the whole syphon thing

[Johnny_Tightlips]

It looks like they really screw up things with the "Revan went looking for the true Sith" crap. I hope Lucasarts told them they had to do it, because if Obsidian did it on their own then they really showed a lack of any sort of creativity. Unfortantly I think we are going to get some story like the only reason Revan was using the Star Forge to build ships and take over the Republic was too make the worlds he loved strong enough to resist the "True Sith". God that'd be as crappy as having to fight Markos Ragnos' ghost or something. This is getting worse then the whole syphon thing

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Agreed.

 

I really don't know what Obsidian could do. Perhaps a joint Revan/Exile game, where you alternate between the 2 players. But then Obsidian would be accused of making it just like Halo 2. And if it was just he Exile, it would just be an expansion pack. So, they're in a hard place. Wouldn't want to be in their place.

[DSLuke]

When I was saying that the game should have taken place many 20-50 years after KOTOR nobody thought it would be a good idea.

 

Now they have to include both Revan and the Exile in K3.

[NeverwinterKnight]

When I was saying that the game should have taken place many 20-50 years after KOTOR nobody thought it would be a good idea.

 

Now they have to include both Revan and the Exile in K3.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

my guess is that revan/exile wont be in k3 (or atleast not as main points of the story) and we will have a brand new protagonist.

 

looks like if we want "closure" for the revan/exile cliffhangar we have to wait for a fanfic to write it.

[DSLuke]

my guess is that revan/exile wont be in k3 (or atleast not as main points of the story) and we will have a brand new protagonist.

 

looks like if we want "closure" for the revan/exile cliffhangar we have to wait for a fanfic to write it. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

No way I'm reading it in a fanfic.

 

Since they put themselfs in such a position they should the one who will manouvre out of it.

[NeverwinterKnight]

Since they put themselfs in such a position they should the one who will manouvre out of it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

i just have a hunch that they wont and itll leave many fans wondering "so what happened to revan and the exile?"

[TentamusDarkblade]

man...this is almost laughable.

[NeverwinterKnight]

man...this is almost laughable.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

why? because peoples opinion differs from yours? imagine that. not everyone thinking the way you do. i know, its quite a shock isnt it.

[TentamusDarkblade]

man...this is almost laughable.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

why? because peoples opinion differs from yours? imagine that. not everyone thinking the way you do. i know, its quite a shock isnt it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

no, just reading all these yahoos going on about how it "has" to do this or "has" to be like this.....it's damn funny.

 

i don't find it shocking that people don't share my opinions. What i do find shocking is all the folks stating as if it's god given fact what KOTOR3 "must" do.

[Muad'Dib]

Well if I'm one of the yahoos you are refering to Tentamus, due to the fact I used those specific words, I naturally assumed that you could infer that everything I was saying was said as my opinion and in my point of view, sorry if I actually had to specify this each and every time I post.

[NeverwinterKnight]

no, just reading all these yahoos going on about how it "has" to do this or "has" to be like this.....it's damn funny.

 

i don't find it shocking that people don't share my opinions. What i do find shocking is all the folks stating as if it's god given fact what KOTOR3 "must" do.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

thats more than likely due to people (myself included) not bothering to write "imo" before every single sentence.

 

i would have thought it was obvious that each side in this debate is just stating their opinion and not fact, since none of us are actually employees of lucasarts and thus dont know what they intend to do.

[Matt_Cauthon1]

KotOR III has the potential to either be fabulous or flop. the idea that you must use Revan or the Exile is not one set in stone. picture this, twenty years after KotOR II the Ebon Hawk returns to the Core Worlds. Because Carth Onassi was an admiral at the time it departed he probably had some sort of diary or journal. Now a ship of hisorical value suddenly appears in known space would call for an investigation. enter our "new" protagonist. the game uses saved data from the first two games to put togather the plot. now our young adventurer would have to search for those battlefields in the Outer Rim and beyond to tell the story, mabey even finding either Revan and the Exile or their remains.

 

but this is just one possibility for the tale for KotOR III.

[Muad'Dib]

Hey there Matt! We all realize that there are coutless possibilities on how to handle K3, and that the game can have a new protagonist as it will probably happen. However what some of us are expressing (At least from a storyline standpoint) is that to us Revan and/or Exile still have their tales unfinished, and we would like to see that before moving on to yet another new PC.

 

Me, I just don't want a new PC, I think it's poor creativity and lousy storytelling if we nned to have some new guys every time we get a new game, just imagine if all 3 of the Original Trilogy movies had a different protagonist, at least for me it wouldn't have worked. I feel that K3 should end Revan and Exile's journeys and stories respectively before moving onto a new PC, hopefully in a completely new era not related at all to the events of the first two and potential third games. I would like my cast to have new people in it but I don't want just a new cast every time I am playing a game which implies continuity in its story and timeframe, at least not if their stories are left off in the ari as K2 did with both Revan and Exile. I would rather have some really cheesy thing happen to either or both so they would begin at level 1 again than just having to start with yet another new PC. How can you care about your characters when every single time you turn around the one you just grew fond off is gone and a new one is there in his/her place doing what he/she set out to do in the game before. Games like Baldur's Gate 2 effectively used the previous game's protagonist without problems, heck BG2 was much better than the original imo. I wish the same would happen for K3, so I could get a sense opf closure for the story and characters I have been following. Then fine lets move on, and get something new, there's plenty of Old Republic left between these games and the movies to make new adventures with new characters.

 

Just my two cents.

[Darth Jebus]

I think someone already said this, but I really don't think when K1 was being developed, the folks over at BioWare had a sequel in mind. Especially in light of recent announcements from BioWare stating that they will no longer develop licensed products.

 

To add to this, when you actually PLAY K2, you can just TELL that K1 was not meant to have a sequel, imo. The writing seemed to reflect a "What if...?" type of attitude on the part of the writers and not necessarily a fleshing out of an epic story in which the first game was only a part.

 

I mean, K2's story was good and all, and it had GREAT potential, but it just felt like they were trying to link it to the first game and push the series into new territory by forcing story elements on it, rather than just having pre-existing material in which to work from and thus, just writing an "Episode II."

 

For example, when Lucas wrote A New Hope, he already had the general outline for Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi written down. Once the original Star Wars ended up being such a success, he then proceeded to finish the story.

 

K2 would have been better as a stand-alone story that had nothing to do with the first game when I think about it. But, as I've said before, the majority of gamers (prolly including me) would've had a coniption if they didn't tie K2 in to the first game somehow.

 

I surely didn't envy OE's position, that's for sure. :ph34r:

[Laozi]

When I first heard about K2 I really hoped that they would use Revan again, that was before I really gave much thought to "how" they would do it. If they had really wanted to I think they would have, but when they didn't do it for K2 basically that ship sailed.I'm sure we wil hear something about what happen to both Revan and the Exile, but in no way could we meet them, theres just the obvious facts of there alignment, some people out there actually think one of the two and even in some really extreme cases both of them are female. If they had planned for this maybe something could be done, but we'll probaly just have to live with the fact that none of the NPCs in the game will be the same. The whole 20 yrs, later doesn't really work either, 5yrs. between segments in the trilogy, its Star Warsy

[Jedi Master D Murda]

It looks like they really screw up things with the "Revan went looking for the true Sith" crap. I hope Lucasarts told them they had to do it, because if Obsidian did it on their own then they really showed a lack of any sort of creativity. Unfortantly I think we are going to get some story like the only reason Revan was using the Star Forge to build ships and take over the Republic was too make the worlds he loved strong enough to resist the "True Sith". God that'd be as crappy as having to fight Markos Ragnos' ghost or something. This is getting worse then the whole syphon thing

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I agree with you there, the whole going after the "True Sith" was very lousy in my opinion. Before K2 I stated a theory that the Sith that came to the Mandalorians with the "offer" were Nihilus, Sion and Kreia but nope it's the "True Sith". Then it makes me wonder what were Kreia and company if not Sith? And also are these "True Sith" force users that use lightsabers and what about Revan and Malak, I guess they weren't Sith but just fallen Jedi. The term "Sith" is something that confuses me in the Star Wars universe, especially in the EU. I hope George has Palps tell of their past in Ep 3.

 

Agreed.

 

I really don't know what Obsidian could do. Perhaps a joint Revan/Exile game, where you alternate between the 2 players. But then Obsidian would be accused of making it just like Halo 2. And if it was just he Exile, it would just be an expansion pack. So, they're in a hard place. Wouldn't want to be in their place.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I was thinking the same thing. Something like the Sonic/Shadow games. I think it could work out. Revan fighting here then you switch to the Exile fighting here and when they come together you choose who you want to be your primary. But a lot of people say they need to use Revan and the Exile in K3 as the heros and no new character yet some complain about how it would be cheesy if you had to start them from lvl 1 again. I have absolutely no problem taking in something cheesy if it means that Revan and the Exile start from lvl 1 again.

 

I think someone already said this, but I really don't think when K1 was being developed, the folks over at BioWare had a sequel in mind.  Especially in light of recent announcements from BioWare stating that they will no longer develop licensed products.

 

To add to this, when you actually PLAY K2, you can just TELL that K1 was not meant to have a sequel, imo.  The writing seemed to reflect a "What if...?" type of attitude on the part of the writers and not necessarily a fleshing out of an epic story in which the first game was only a part.

 

I mean, K2's story was good and all, and it had GREAT potential, but it just felt like they were trying to link it to the first game and push the series into new territory by forcing story elements on it, rather than just having pre-existing material in which to work from and thus, just writing an "Episode II."

 

For example, when Lucas wrote A New Hope, he already had the general outline for Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi written down.  Once the original Star Wars ended up being such a success, he then proceeded to finish the story.

 

K2 would have been better as a stand-alone story that had nothing to do with the first game when I think about it.  But, as I've said before, the majority of gamers (prolly including me) would've had a coniption if they didn't tie K2  in to the first game somehow.

 

I surely didn't envy OE's position, that's for sure. :ph34r:

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I have to disagree with you there. I may be wrong but I believe K2 had basically absolutely nothing to do with what went on in K1. I've played K2 many times and when I always step back and analyze the story of K2 K1 was brushed off and not significant at all. K2 was more about what went on before K1. The Mandalorian Wars this and the Mandalorian Wars that and the Jedi Civil War this and the Jedi Civil War that before Revan was mind wiped. But whenever it talked about the Jedi Civil War it's only about when Revan and Malak came back to the Republic to take it over or unify it <_< . Whenever they did mention K1 it was like: Kreia- "Revan was captured by the Jedi. He escaped to finish off Malak" and that's it. There is no mention of Revan's mission of finding the Star Maps or anything about the Star Forge except

for what Bastila says on the Sith Holocron about the "Forge" draining everybody and no mention of Mission, Jolee, Zaalbaar, Juhani except by Disciple when he says "Revan and a few Republic heroes helped to defeat Malak"

 

 

I have so much more to add to that but I think I said enough :">

[Darth Nuke]

Me must all agree this is Star Wars, not your every day RPG. Just like switching hero's wouldn't have worked for the OT and PT, the same thing applys to KOTOR.

 

To me Revan is the hero of the story, and definitly has a whole lot more story to tell.

[Muad'Dib]

I agree with you there, the whole going after the "True Sith" was very lousy in my opinion. Before K2 I stated a theory that the Sith that came to the Mandalorians with the "offer" were Nihilus, Sion and Kreia but nope it's the "True Sith". Then it makes me wonder what were Kreia and company if not Sith?   And also are these "True Sith" force users that use lightsabers and what about Revan and Malak, I guess they weren't Sith but just fallen Jedi. The term "Sith" is something that confuses me in the Star Wars universe, especially in the EU. I hope George has Palps tell of their past in Ep 3.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Well I'm only speculating here so bear with me. I pressume by "True Sith" they simply are referring to the supposedly dead Sith race that once lived on Korriban, the one who's teachings corrupted the original Jedi well before Exar Kun's time. I could be wrong though and the "True Sith" may just be an invention specifically for the game's storyline.

 

In any case, I've never had a problem with the terminology of Sith. I do however not like what the EU has done with the Sith though, as the impressions I've always gotten from the movies is that the Sith are a counterpart religious order to the Jedi, simply put they are the Dark Side equivalent of the Jedi. I don't like the Sith being an actual race or being a Empire-like government, but that's just me.

 

What I really hate is the dumb term Dark Jedi, that term I can't pass. When Jedi fall and go Dark Side they are adopting the Sith teachings and thus become Sith (Every single Dark Side movie character; Maul, Tyrannus, Sidious and Vader are Sith, regardless whether they were once Jedi or not). This is how I look at it, if a Sith would be redeemed to the light what would be the term for that Light Sith? I can't swallow Dark Jedi any more than I could Light Sith. Some argue that in order to be Sith you need to be taught directly by a Sith, but even in the EU the first Sith Lords just taught themselves to be Sith since the actual Sith race was long extinct, no Sith was around to pass their knowledge onto them. So I keep things simple, Jedi is Light, Sith is Dark. But like I said, that's just me, many other have long litst about the differences there are between being a Sith and a "Dark Jedi". I suppose it's all up to the individual's interpretation of it.

[Laozi]

What I really hate is the dumb term Dark Jedi, that term I can't pass. When Jedi fall and go Dark Side they are adopting the Sith teachings and thus become Sith (Every single Dark Side movie character; Maul, Tyrannus, Sidious and Vader are Sith, regardless whether they were once Jedi or not). This is how I look at it, if a Sith would be redeemed to the light what would be the term for that Light Sith? I can't swallow Dark Jedi any more than I could Light Sith. Some argue that in order to be Sith you need to be taught directly by a Sith, but even in the EU the first Sith Lords just taught themselves to be Sith since the actual Sith race was long extinct, no Sith was around to pass their knowledge onto them. So I keep things simple, Jedi is Light, Sith is Dark. But like I said, that's just me, many other have long litst about the differences there are between being a Sith and a "Dark Jedi". I suppose it's all up to the individual's interpretation of it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

That would make Nur Ab Sur totally feel icky.

[TentamusDarkblade]

What I really hate is the dumb term Dark Jedi, that term I can't pass. When Jedi fall and go Dark Side they are adopting the Sith teachings and thus become Sith (Every single Dark Side movie character; Maul, Tyrannus, Sidious and Vader are Sith, regardless whether they were once Jedi or not). This is how I look at it, if a Sith would be redeemed to the light what would be the term for that Light Sith? I can't swallow Dark Jedi any more than I could Light Sith. Some argue that in order to be Sith you need to be taught directly by a Sith, but even in the EU the first Sith Lords just taught themselves to be Sith since the actual Sith race was long extinct, no Sith was around to pass their knowledge onto them. So I keep things simple, Jedi is Light, Sith is Dark. But like I said, that's just me, many other have long litst about the differences there are between being a Sith and a "Dark Jedi". I suppose it's all up to the individual's interpretation of it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Maybe i'm confused on this, but i thought that when the Dark jedi were expelled from the jedi order some 20000 years before ep 4 they found a new home on a planet with a race called the sith who they basically became god-kings of. 15000 years of living with the Sith caused the original dark jedi to merge with the Sith culture. Since that point there has been Sith - which represents twenty thousand years of dark side learning and culture, Dark Jedi - which represents the teachings of the Jedi corrupted by the dark side, and Fallen Jedi - which represents Jedi who have begun falling but still try to follow the Jedi code.

 

Do you have any references saying that the Sith race died out before the dark Jedi encountered their teachings? I'm trying to gather information about that period and that fact would change alot of what i've been writing.

[Muad'Dib]

Tentamus the planet the Jedi found the Sith teachings was Korriban, homeworld of the Sith race that existed long before. It's been a while since I've read up on some of that stuff so there is a very good chance I don't have everything accurate, probably Nur could answer the question correctly.

 

I do recall what you mention, the Jedi being expelled and worshipped by the ancient Sith, so there is a very good chance I'm mistaken in some of what I said. From what I can recall, very vaguely so feel free to correct me here, there was some point where the Sith Empire of the actual Sith race died out, and the "Dark Jedi" took their place following their teachings. Don't know if it was Exar Kun's timeline or just before, but at some point the Sith race did stop existing, at least in their original form. I usually get my info fom the Unofficial SW Online Encyclopedia when I look it up, but like I said I haven't looked at this stuff for a very long time so I could be mistaken in lots of stuff. I could have sworn the original Sith race died off though, the ones that had the Empire from the Golden Age of the Sith or whatever those first comics were from Tales of the Jedi.

 

I could have also be mixing KotOR 1's accounts with the actual comics' accounts. If you recall K1 Marka Ragnos wasn't even from the Sith race, he was one of the four Jedi that abandoned their masters to go to Korriban to follow the Sith teachings before they all turned on each other. In this version I believe the Sith race had died out and the 4 rebuilt the Sith Empire anew, though like I said at least at some point in Tales of the Jedi I think the Sith Race died out for a period before the Sith Empire was resurrected. I apologize for any misinformation I gave.

 

Well Laozi Nur and I not seen eye to eye to many things in the past, him being an EU fan and me not, but I respect him as the EU authority and I tried to express that's only how I see it, I'm not implying that I'm right and Nur's interpretation or anyone elses is wrong. I still hate the term Dark Jedi, I see it as a contradiction as the very concept or defintion of the word. If a Jedi becomes evil, he stops being a Jedi, I seriously doubt that Jedi is still a member in the Order, as I understand it since the Jedi don't teach how to use and tap into the DS (They try everything for Jedi not to even come close to it, very ineffectively but that's another matter) and for all purposes the exploration and use of DS is done by the Sith teachings, I understand it once a Jedi starts exploring the DS that Jedi is following the Sith teachings, therefore is a SIth. Again, this is just me.

[jaguars4ever]

Think of Atris as a perfect example of a Dark Jedi - she's a 'Sith', and doesn't know it; she still clings to her illusions of being a Jedi Master...even as she spirals down the Dark path.

[NeverwinterKnight]

Think of Atris as a perfect example of a Dark Jedi - she's a 'Sith', and doesn't know it; she still clings to her illusions of being a Jedi Master...even as she spirals down the Dark path. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

how did atris ever get a spot on the jedi council? she seems like too much of a weak-minded fool to me.

[Laozi]

Hopefully my opinion won't incur the whining of TentamusDarkblade as it has in another thread, but I guess thats the risk you take, we'll just wait and see.

 

I'm not sure but I think the difference between the two is tha a Sith Lord has gotten specific teachings of the Sith Race. Meaning magical spells and learning how to play that song Dreamweaver, where as Dark Jedi are only those with the Force who use the Darkside. I'm not sure if a Force adept that used the darkside would be considered a Dark Jedi. Of course this is totally an EU thing, previously Darth Vader The Darklord of the Sith didn't recieve any Sith specific teachings, just alot of ability and a pretty bad disposition. The EU gives some excuse like that its just a title or something and has no real implications to the piss-poor Exar Kun era.