Violence in Video Games

[mkreku]

Psychos chose their path, it wasn't chosen for them.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Don't you realize how utterly uninformed this makes you sound?

 

I saw a rather recent study that showed that around 80% of all prostitutes had been raped and abused during their childhood. It is impossible to understand for someone who hasn't been in the same situation, but becoming a prostitute (a piece of meat that others can abuse) is actually a self-defence system. It is the "right" choice for that type of heavily traumatized person. (Of course, not everyone reacts the same way since we're all different). When your brain tells you what is right and what is wrong, you'll have a very difficult time trying to do the opposite. Unfortunately, your brain doesn't always have the correct answer and, contrary to what you might think, you're not in direct control of it either. Just try to explain why you fall in love with someone. Or better yet, try to control who you fall in love with, if you don't believe me.

[Tayl]

It's the job of the parent to look after their offsprings, so just put parental advisory tags on the game as then those who are of age can enjoy it.

 

So voted for Maybe.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I agree with you. The rating system is enough in my opinion. That is my biggest problem with the censorship of violence/sex/nudity in videogames. Why is the developer's or game store's job to make sure violence is kept out of the hands of the kids? I agree that kids generally aren't mature enough to be allowed access to ultra-violent games, but I don't think passing laws outlawing it or forcing game companies to tone down their games is the answer. It's just pushing the blame away from the parents and onto someone else and ignores the original problem of parents needing to have more responsibilty for their children. I mean, Heaven forbid a parent actually has to monitor what their kid is doing. <_<

 

I absolutely hate the level of irresponsibility that is present in almost of every facet of society. Everyone wants to push blame for any little mistake or problem on someone else. This is just another example of it. Parents are responsible for making sure their kids are ready for violent things. My parents raised me that way and I am a mature, responsible adult. My little brother is being raised that way, and he is more mature than a lot of kids his age. It's no coincidence that the kids that have problems at my college are the kids that were taught to pass the blame and that they can do anything they want without consequences.

 

But before I go off on society in general, violent games are ok if the violence isn't the only reason for the game's existance. I avoided Manhunt because it seemed to tout violence for no other reason than because it wanted to shock you. No, thanks. Half Life 2, on the other hand, isn't violent just for the sake of it.

[Darque]

Psychos chose their path, it wasn't chosen for them.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Don't you realize how utterly uninformed this makes you sound?

 

I saw a rather recent study that showed that around 80% of all prostitutes had been raped and abused during their childhood. It is impossible to understand for someone who hasn't been in the same situation, but becoming a prostitute (a piece of meat that others can abuse) is actually a self-defence system. It is the "right" choice for that type of heavily traumatized person. (Of course, not everyone reacts the same way since we're all different). When your brain tells you what is right and what is wrong, you'll have a very difficult time trying to do the opposite. Unfortunately, your brain doesn't always have the correct answer and, contrary to what you might think, you're not in direct control of it either. Just try to explain why you fall in love with someone. Or better yet, try to control who you fall in love with, if you don't believe me.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Point to mkreku

[Rosbjerg]

It's the job of the parent to look after their offsprings, so just put parental advisory tags on the game as then those who are of age can enjoy it.

 

So voted for Maybe.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I agree with you. The rating system is enough in my opinion. That is my biggest problem with the censorship of violence/sex/nudity in videogames. Why is the developer's or game store's job to make sure violence is kept out of the hands of the kids? I agree that kids generally aren't mature enough to be allowed access to ultra-violent games, but I don't think passing laws outlawing it or forcing game companies to tone down their games is the answer. It's just pushing the blame away from the parents and onto someone else and ignores the original problem of parents needing to have more responsibilty for their children. I mean, Heaven forbid a parent actually has to monitor what their kid is doing. <_<

 

I absolutely hate the level of irresponsibility that is present in almost of every facet of society. Everyone wants to push blame for any little mistake or problem on someone else. This is just another example of it. Parents are responsible for making sure their kids are ready for violent things. My parents raised me that way and I am a mature, responsible adult. My little brother is being raised that way, and he is more mature than a lot of kids his age. It's no coincidence that the kids that have problems at my college are the kids that were taught to pass the blame and that they can do anything they want without consequences.

 

But before I go off on society in general, violent games are ok if the violence isn't the only reason for the game's existance. I avoided Manhunt because it seemed to tout violence for no other reason than because it wanted to shock you. No, thanks. Half Life 2, on the other hand, isn't violent just for the sake of it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

well I'm sure single mom with 2 kids would spend more time with her children if she could .. but unfortunately this society is a little big on the money issue, and raising children isn't exactly cheap! so she has to work, and with all her good intentions she has a hard time standing up and being a b**** the only 2 hours a day she talks to her son (who can blame her I guess .. nobody wasn't to be the enternal bad guy) .. I mean come on! parents aren't the extreme benevolent superbeings with an endless amount of patience! they are human beings .. and some of them are in extremely hard positions, where they *have* to work long hours each day to even get their kids to school!

and you talk about misplacing blame??

 

and btw this wasn't meant as a total defence of parents .. some blame still rest with them! no doubt .. but not all of it!

[Baneblade]

well I'm sure single mom with 2 kids would spend more time with her children if she could ..

and you talk about misplacing blame??

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Well, if she's a single mother, it'll probably her buying the game for her kids so I fail to see your point.

[213374U]

Well, I never experienced a violent thing as they occur in games, so I don't know when a game  offers "realistic" violence.

I think this goes for most people. And like someone else  just stated: people who can tell when violence in a game is real probably don't want to play such a game anyway.

It doesn't matter. The fact is that games are becoming increasingly more violent, and nobody really knows for sure how this might affect people on the long run.

 

I agree with you that long term exposure to violence can make people feel indifferent about it, and that it doesnt apply exclusively to games, but this boils down to the fact that violence is bad. That's not news...

Violence is bad according to present moral standards. However, it's hard to shake off an instinct which is hard-coded into our genes. My point is we don't need extreme graphical violence putting even more pressure on our moral restraints.

 

It's not like the war tales that were told in old times, this is more like experiencing it first-hand, and that's one hell of a difference.

 

 

I agree with you. The rating system is enough in my opinion. That is my biggest problem with the censorship of violence/sex/nudity in videogames. Why is the developer's or game store's job to make sure violence is kept out of the hands of the kids? I agree that kids generally aren't mature enough to be allowed access to ultra-violent games, but I don't think passing laws outlawing it or forcing game companies to tone down their games is the answer. It's just pushing the blame away from the parents and onto someone else and ignores the original problem of parents needing to have more responsibilty for their children. I mean, Heaven forbid a parent actually has to monitor what their kid is doing.  <_<

No. The whole rating system is flawed in that it can't protect adults. Obviously, if something is not suited for an adult, it's not suited for children either.

 

If you have a product which is a potential hazard to the healthy adult population, who's responsibility is it?

 

Again, it seems I'm sounding like I'm against violence in games, which I'm not. In certain cases and levels it's tolerable and I've heard of people who can actually blow steam that way, even though that's not my case.

I'm just concerned about the increasing level of realism in game violence, and its possible long-term effects on people.

[Child of Flame]

On the other hand, profanity is something that tends to leave me unconfortable, because I rarely seem to find a reason of why it should be used. It doesn't improve my gaming experience, and most of the times it detracts from it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

When used correctly, profanity adds to the game, see Vampire Bloodlines. Now, when you have profanity in a game where such things dont belong (see most fantasy games), it does indeed detract from the game.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

I think it worked well in that game because only the people who were similar to the R/L people you'd find using it WERE. Other games, even ones not in a fantasy setting, it wouldn't have been so appropriate. For instance, what if they'd had the Prince talking like Jack...just wouldn't have worked.

[Kaftan Barlast]

200 years ago they claimed Beethovens music was turning the heads of the young, luring them to indecent behaviour.

100 years ago in victorian england, people dressed the legs of tables for fear of their "lustful" curves,

30 years ago, they claimed The Manson family had been inspired by the Beatles White album.

 

Today they blame everything from rock music to roleplaying games to movies and computer games. But the fact is that none of these things are responsible. Truth is that no matter how violent or obscene entertainement may be, its not going to make normal people go out and kill someone.

 

Actually there is a Swedish (its not called scientist whe they research social issues is it?) called Margareta R

[Child of Flame]

I was busy earlier, consider this the 'Extended Writer's Cut' post.

 

 

First I want you to download the F.E.A.R E3 walkthrough if you have not already and then watch it.

 

WARNING: This clip contains profanity, graphic violence, and bloodshed. Viewer discretion is advised. Strongly Recommend that viewer be 15 years or older.

 

                                          From Fileplanet

 

F.E.A.R. E3 2004 Movie

 

                                          or from gamespot

 

F.E.A.R. E3 2004 Movie

 

I could have used Doom 3 and HL2 as examples but in the meantime I'll stick with F.E.A.R.

 

 

 

Blood, blood and more blood. It seems that every fight scene can

[213374U]

Today they blame everything from rock music to roleplaying games to movies and computer games. But the fact is that none of these things are responsible. Truth is that no matter how violent or obscene entertainement may be, its not going to make normal people go out and kill someone.

Fortunately, Beethoven's compositions don't drive people mad. Real violence does, and that is a fact. You don't want to accept that fact, fine. Welcome to Denial. Population: You.

 

Actually there is a Swedish (its not called scientist whe  they research social issues is it?) called Margareta R

[thepixiesrock]

I don't know if this has been mentioned already because I haven't read this entire topic, but I heard that in england they are developing a game about the asssasination of JFK and I think you get to assasinate him... That might be going a little far...

[213374U]

I don't know if this has been mentioned already because I haven't read this entire topic, but I heard that in england they are developing a game about the asssasination of JFK and I think you get to assasinate him...  That might be going a little far...

Yes, I've heard of this. That's what happens when the line between what's acceptable and what's not isn't well defined. What's next, the possibility to slay people you know, family and friends alike? :ph34r:

[Judge Hades]

Just try to explain why you fall in love with someone. Or better yet, try to control who you fall in love with, if you don't believe me.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I have, it took me a while but I learned control. After my first encounter with love I figured I needed to control such reactions in order not to make the same mistakes. I think I have been successful over the last 13 years.

[Ludozee]

Just try to explain why you fall in love with someone. Or better yet, try to control who you fall in love with, if you don't believe me.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I have, it took me a while but I learned control. After my first encounter with love I figured I needed to control such reactions in order not to make the same mistakes. I think I have been successful over the last 13 years.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I thought you didn't have a girlfriend since 13 years? :ph34r:

[Rosbjerg]

I think he was referring to that fact!

[Ludozee]

I think he was referring to that fact!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

So AFAI undrestand it, he is afraid to love...because of mistakes he made 13 years ago?

[Child of Flame]

Today they blame everything from rock music to roleplaying games to movies and computer games. But the fact is that none of these things are responsible. Truth is that no matter how violent or obscene entertainement may be, its not going to make normal people go out and kill someone.

Fortunately, Beethoven's compositions don't drive people mad. Real violence does, and that is a fact. You don't want to accept that fact, fine. Welcome to Denial. Population: You.

 

Actually there is a Swedish (its not called scientist whe  they research social issues is it?) called Margareta R

[Juha]

Obviously you don't know jack about real violence. I recommend you ask a war vet about his experience if you can, or read stuff by people who have experienced violence first-hand, ex-mobsters or whatever. Perhaps then you will realize how violence changes people for the worse.

And you do?

 

I don't have a problem with pixel blood and 2k poly models being slaughtered. However that's as close to the real thing as martial arts training. Real violence however is a horrible thing. Not quite the 'physical' component of it, but the emotional one. The feeling that you are causing suffering to another being is something your mind can't handle very well, and thus, rejects violently.

Emotional in real life. I dont care if a mdl gets blown to bits on my screen.

 

Even though a game is not real, it's only because the technology doesn't allow for total realism yet. When it does, your subconcious (sp?) won't be able to tell the difference between 'real' and fictional violence very well, even though you know it's not real. And then, you will be in trouble.

 

Yeeeaaa that will be a problem in a few years aI guess when games will have such sweet graphics and so much detail and people will loose touch with reality..

But its not that you cant tell, its just that you think its going to be the same in real life as in a game (which it will be). Goodly people will not kill people in real life, even if they kill a 1000 in videogames every day, while an evil person would (like they do now) regardless of the video game.

But noone forces you to play a bloody game. You can close your eyes if you are too stubborn to stop, even though you know its gonna make you sick.

 

And by the time the technology will be so sweet and games will be so good I thikn we will have many more genres and a lot of games which will be peaceful, but will still be popular.

[213374U]

Just try to explain why you fall in love with someone. Or better yet, try to control who you fall in love with, if you don't believe me.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I have, it took me a while but I learned control. After my first encounter with love I figured I needed to control such reactions in order not to make the same mistakes. I think I have been successful over the last 13 years.

My, aren't you the nihilistic one?

Anyway, that is a very, very sad thing to say. Exactly, what are your goals in life?

 

Obviously you don't know jack about real violence. I recommend you ask a war vet about his experience if you can, or read stuff by people who have experienced violence first-hand, ex-mobsters or whatever. Perhaps then you will realize how violence changes people for the worse.

And you do?

Nope. That's why I don't do random assumptions about it. I base my opinions in what I've read from people who have experienced it first-hand, and people with a slight idea on how the human mind works.

 

I don't have a problem with pixel blood and 2k poly models being slaughtered. However that's as close to the real thing as martial arts training. Real violence however is a horrible thing. Not quite the 'physical' component of it, but the emotional one. The feeling that you are causing suffering to another being is something your mind can't handle very well, and thus, rejects violently.

Emotional in real life. I dont care if a mdl gets blown to bits on my screen.

Neither do I. Unfortunately, your mind likes to play tricks on you. A lot of people are uncomfortable with playing the bad guy in RPGs. That's an emotional response, which they can't control even though they know it's not real. Now increase the realism tenfold, and you get my point.

 

 

Goodly people will not kill people in real life, even if they kill a 1000 in videogames every day, while an evil person would (like they do now) regardless of the video game.

You don't know that. Somebody who has been exposed to extreme violence for a long time is very likely to react violently in a situation of extreme (or not so extreme) stress. It's not like people will go nuts overnight, it's more like people having trouble controlling their natural/dormant violent instincts.

 

And by the time the technology will be so sweet and games will be so good I thikn we will have many more genres and a lot of games which will be peaceful, but will still be popular.

Another random assumption, I see. The fact that there will be more diversity in game themes doesn't counter the fact that there may be photo-realistic ultra-violent games, so your point is moot.

[Judge Hades]

I am hardly afraid, I just found it better not allow myself indulge in such things. As for my goals, it is just live one day at a time and have a bit of fun doing so. No more and no less.

[Kaftan Barlast]

Fortunately, Beethoven's compositions don't drive people mad. Real violence does, and that is a fact. You don't want to accept that fact, fine. Welcome to Denial. Population: You.

 

 

Im beginning to think I have a problem with communicating because I write one thing and I get replies to something completely different. I will therefore clearify this even further: I do not believe violent entertainment causes people to perform violent acts.

 

 

 

..you would be surprised to see how many studies about anything you might be able to find. From the existance of God, to telepathy, you will always be able to find an 'authority' in the matter to support your claims provided you search hard enough.

However, the current consensus in psychology AFAIK is that the more extreme and realistic violence is, the more chances of becoming accustomed to violence the subject has. Remember that in games one doesn't watch others exercise violence. In games one does it herself.

 

 

But all this proves is that they become desentisized to violent entertainment, not the real thing. In a sane mind, there exists a strong distinction between what is real and what is not(entertainment). People are not mindless drones who cannot tell the differance between videogames and reality and they do not become violent by being exposed to fictional violence.

 

 

 

I view the rest of your post as pure provocation and not part of a discussion, and I will not respond to it. However I will clearify that "snuff" is now usually defined as being real photage of people dying or sustaining injuries. The films I have seen were mostly outtakes from never shown newsphotage or videos shot by terrorist groups.

[Judge Hades]

I have no problems playing the bad guy in a RPG, PnP or Computer. I can get intot he mindset of sadistic madman or an uncaring thug quite easily. Then again I can get into the mindset of a virtuous man/woman of faith just as easily. You simply separate teh emotions you are accessing from your rational mind. Not that hard to do, really.

[Rosbjerg]

A general question .. Is it just me or is random acts of violence now a bigger part of everyday life than it was 5-10 years ago?? I see more severe beatings for every month, and I hear about more and more people trying the more extreme drugs! now its not just because I hang out with a bad crowd, I know my share of them though (and they aren't getting worse), but these are "normal" people ..

 

or is it just Denmark going rotten??

 

because as I have said, but maybe I should clarify as well, I see extreme violence in movies and in games as a symptom of the desires from "normal" people .. it seems we want photo-realistic violence! to me that's a big warning sign! I know that the average person, today, can easily distinguish reality from fiction, and don't go out raping, murdering and pillaging from playing CS! but if violence because an everyday part of our lives, then won't we stop caring about it? .. If society is ok with the fact that violence is becoming entertainment and unconcerned with the youth becoming addicted to the rush of adrenalin, then the problem will one day get out of hands imo!

I don't think people will turn into raging mad-men, but they will become immune to violence, and when they see someone being beaten at a club, they won't care.. that's my fear! that we will just stop caring ..

[213374U]

Im beginning to think I have a problem with communicating because I write one thing and I get replies to something completely different. I will therefore clearify this even further: I do not believe violent entertainment causes people to perform violent acts.

Um, forgive my asking but, where did you get your degree in psychology? Right now nobody knows that for sure because it's a rather new phenomenon. Sorry, but no amount of bold text is going to convince me of something that's wrong, or at the very least, unproven.

 

I'm not as arrogant as you are, and I will not make such an absolute judgement about what the consequences of having ever increasingly violent and realistic games may be. But I'm still concerned.

 

 

But all this prooves is that they become decentisized to violent entertainment, not the real thing. In a sane mind, there exists a strong distinction between what is real and what is not(entertainment). People are not mindless drones who cannot tell the differance between videogames and reality and they do not become violent by being exposed to fictional violence.

Again, that must be something you learnt when you were studying to get your degree in psychology.

I really love it when people make random assumptions like that. It really puts the scientific method to shame.

 

Perhaps you should read the whole thread. I know that at the present state of realism it's difficult to be influenced by games unless there's a mental health problem involved. But once games become as real as you can imagine, I'm not so sure. After all, what's the difference between real violence and 100% realistic video game violence? Your mind isn't as rational as you would like to think. Sorry, but we're still animals.

 

 

I view the rest of your post as pure provocation and not part of a discussion, and I will not respond to it. However I will clearify that "snuff" is now usually defined as being real photage of people dying or sustaining injuries. The films I have seen were mostly outtakes from never shown newsphotage or videos shot by terrorist groups.

So says the guy who compares Beethoven to John Carmack and claims to watch snuff movies.

I was thinking of giving you a lecture about snuff movies but I don't really see the point.

Still, I find it disturbing that you watch that kind of stuff and proclaim it openly. To each his own, I suppose. At least you're not a criminal.

[213374U]

I have no problems playing the bad guy in a RPG, PnP or Computer.  I can get intot he mindset of sadistic madman or an uncaring thug quite easily.  Then again I can get into the mindset of a virtuous man/woman of faith just as easily.  You simply separate teh emotions you are accessing from your rational mind.  Not that hard to do, really.

Yes Hades, I can do that, too. But that doesn't mean everyone can, and you know that. Don't reduce the whole world to yourself. If you have to be anal, at least find a good excuse to.