CastleBravo Posted July 5, 2004 Posted July 5, 2004 One thing about KOTOR that was lacking was the usefulness of skills (other than Persuade), for instance: -Security was a waste of time. You could bash anything open with a lightsaber. -Awareness was a waste of time, since mines couldn't hurt you much anyway, and all cloaked bad guys appeared in cut-scenes and could never be detected beforehand anyway. -Computers was sort of useful, except you get so many spikes that it doesn't matter. -Repair was just a waste of time, except for unlocking all of HK-47's abilities. -First Aid becomes useless when you get the healing force powers, and you get so many medpacks it hardly matters. -Demolitions is a waste of time, because mines don't hurt you enough to matter, and you can usually just walk around them. And so on. I gave up on getting any skills except for Persuade, they didn't seem to be worth the effort of clicking buttons to assign the points. Funny thing is, the opening scenes seem to hint that skills will matter (e.g. repair the droid or slice the computer to get past the last bunch of Sith, etc.) Also, ability scores didn't SEEM to have any impact on dialog choices or non-combat options. For instance, I had something like 20 Wisdom, but wasn't getting any great insights. Likewise, higher Intelligence doesn't seem to give you any better dialog choices either, even though 8 is a moron and 18 is genius territory. Finally, it was kind of stupid that only the player could use Repair skill to fix HK-47. I've got a trash-can-lookin' astromech droid with a 20 repair skill, but I've got to fix this assassin robot myself with a 10 repair skill and a coat hanger? It would give the game alot more replay value, as you'd really miss something gameplay-wise by taking points out of Intelligence... your character would suffer the consequences of being stupid. Having fewer skills would have an impact if those skills were actually useful, and you'd miss better dialog options because you are too dumb to think to say them.
icebox15 Posted July 5, 2004 Posted July 5, 2004 And if your really dumb then you say Muchu Shaka Paka to everyone.
John Morgan Posted July 5, 2004 Posted July 5, 2004 The developers are fully aware of the possible applications of all those skills and attributes :ph34r: SiO2
Judge Hades Posted July 5, 2004 Posted July 5, 2004 Aware is one thing. Doing something about it is completely different.
CastleBravo Posted July 5, 2004 Author Posted July 5, 2004 Aware is one thing. Doing something about it is completely different. True. Of course, many of the Obsidian folks were involved with Fallout and Planescape: Torment, two games that made heavier use of skills and abilities than KOTOR did. So the odds he isn't just blowing smoke are actually... pretty decent. B)
Indalecio Posted July 5, 2004 Posted July 5, 2004 -Security was a waste of time. You could bash anything open with a lightsaber. Maybe, but from what I saw, this took forever. It was easier and far quicker just to have someone with Security open it. Awareness was a waste of time, since mines couldn't hurt you much anyway, and all cloaked bad guys appeared in cut-scenes and could never be detected beforehand anyway. True, but in the KOTOR 2, Awareness doubles as Sense Motive. -Computers was sort of useful, except you get so many spikes that it doesn't matter. I wouldn't say that. I continually found myself running out of Computer Spikes. Computer Spikes was a bad idea anyway, I think. -Repair was just a waste of time, except for unlocking all of HK-47's abilities. Not totally, I would frequently repair damaged droids in the early part of the game in order to help out with combat. Still, I found myself running out of repair parts quickly. When you finally had more than enough repair parts, there no longer was any opportunities to use them. Good idea, badly implemented. -First Aid becomes useless when you get the healing force powers, and you get so many medpacks it hardly matters. They're tying First Aid to Force Heal now. How much it heals is dependant on your First Aid ability now. -Demolitions is a waste of time, because mines don't hurt you enough to matter, and you can usually just walk around them. I don't know if they've implemented it or not, but someone suggested on another thread being able to dissassemble recovered mines and using the parts in other places. If they make mines more deadly, you might have more need to disarm them.
Judge Hades Posted July 5, 2004 Posted July 5, 2004 This is a new company and the company that did Fallout and PS:T is dead. These guys have a clean slate and will treat them as such. When they prove to me they can do the game right I will remain skeptical.
Phoenix19-15-5 Posted July 5, 2004 Posted July 5, 2004 One thing about KOTOR that was lacking was the usefulness of skills (other than Persuade), for instance: -Security was a waste of time. You could bash anything open with a lightsaber. -Awareness was a waste of time, since mines couldn't hurt you much anyway, and all cloaked bad guys appeared in cut-scenes and could never be detected beforehand anyway. -Computers was sort of useful, except you get so many spikes that it doesn't matter. -Repair was just a waste of time, except for unlocking all of HK-47's abilities. -First Aid becomes useless when you get the healing force powers, and you get so many medpacks it hardly matters. -Demolitions is a waste of time, because mines don't hurt you enough to matter, and you can usually just walk around them. And so on. I gave up on getting any skills except for Persuade, they didn't seem to be worth the effort of clicking buttons to assign the points. Funny thing is, the opening scenes seem to hint that skills will matter (e.g. repair the droid or slice the computer to get past the last bunch of Sith, etc.) Also, ability scores didn't SEEM to have any impact on dialog choices or non-combat options. For instance, I had something like 20 Wisdom, but wasn't getting any great insights. Likewise, higher Intelligence doesn't seem to give you any better dialog choices either, even though 8 is a moron and 18 is genius territory. Finally, it was kind of stupid that only the player could use Repair skill to fix HK-47. I've got a trash-can-lookin' astromech droid with a 20 repair skill, but I've got to fix this assassin robot myself with a 10 repair skill and a coat hanger? It would give the game alot more replay value, as you'd really miss something gameplay-wise by taking points out of Intelligence... your character would suffer the consequences of being stupid. Having fewer skills would have an impact if those skills were actually useful, and you'd miss better dialog options because you are too dumb to think to say them. Security: You can't bash Master Uthar's door open...if you're playing a Lightside, you have one of two choices 1. Bring the that little bastardization of Artoo along and have him open it. 2. Open it your own damn self with you 1337 security skillz0rs. Awareness: If you have a low awareness, you're constantly running into the 'Deadly' mines. Not a huge deal if you're a Soldier/Guardian muscle tank, but as a more wimpy, 'smarter, wiser' counsular, it's a problem. Computer Use: It was very, very useful, and you totally run out of spikes if you don't invest at least a little in it. Repair: Might I add that HK was totally awesome with his regenerative capabilities fully repaired, very important if you're a Dark Sider who's killed most of your party off! Treat Injury: I agree, this was pretty useless. Demolitions: With a high demolitions skill, you can't take the mines apart that I know of, but you can recover them, thus adding them to you inventory to use at a later time. Useful in several places in the game, including the Rancor on Taris. :D
Indalecio Posted July 5, 2004 Posted July 5, 2004 Demolitions: With a high demolitions skill, you can't take the mines apart that I know of, but you can recover them, thus adding them to you inventory to use at a later time. Useful in several places in the game, including the Rancor on Taris. :D You might be able to take them apart in the next game.
CastleBravo Posted July 5, 2004 Author Posted July 5, 2004 Security: You can't bash Master Uthar's door open...if you're playing a Lightside, you have one of two choices 1. Bring the that little bastardization of Artoo along and have him open it. 2. Open it your own damn self with you 1337 security skillz0rs. -There is another way in that doesn't require the Security skill from anybody in your party. Awareness: If you have a low awareness, you're constantly running into the 'Deadly' mines. Not a huge deal if you're a Soldier/Guardian muscle tank, but as a more wimpy, 'smarter, wiser' counsular, it's a problem. -Just lead with your tanks in minefields. And there are hardly any serious minefields in the game, aside from the one area of the Star Forge planet. Computer Use: It was very, very useful, and you totally run out of spikes if you don't invest at least a little in it. -Computers actually did very little that you couldn't do some other way. But it IS the skill (aside from persuasion) that I liked best. Still, you only need a few points and an Interface Visor or other skill boosting gadget to use EVERY computer you want and have spikes to spare. It would have been better to just make computers a skill check... either you are competent to hack into certain features, or you ain't. That would give you a motive for maxing out the skill, at least. Repair: Might I add that HK was totally awesome with his regenerative capabilities fully repaired, very important if you're a Dark Sider who's killed most of your party off! -Repaired HK was cool, but that's it. Repairing broken-down droids was never very helpful to me, so I quit doing it. Demolitions: With a high demolitions skill, you can't take the mines apart that I know of, but you can recover them, thus adding them to you inventory to use at a later time. Useful in several places in the game, including the Rancor on Taris. -You only need 1 hand grenade to kill that Rancor. Maybe, but from what I saw, this took forever. -Anybody with a lightsaber and decent strength could bash into anything with a couple good hits.
alanschu Posted July 5, 2004 Posted July 5, 2004 This is a new company and the company that did Fallout and PS:T is dead. These guys have a clean slate and will treat them as such. When they prove to me they can do the game right I will remain skeptical. That still overlooks the history of the developers. Just because they formed a new company does not mean you should take away their previous accomplishments.
Indalecio Posted July 5, 2004 Posted July 5, 2004 Maybe, but from what I saw, this took forever. -Anybody with a lightsaber and decent strength could bash into anything with a couple good hits. Maybe you were playing the X-box version? From what I saw, in PC version,it might take from 10-20 hits, with a Lightsaber to open a door.
EnderAndrew Posted July 6, 2004 Posted July 6, 2004 It may also depend if you're playing a Guardian character. My Guardian could slice through doors and locks in a few hits.
Ratamacue Posted July 6, 2004 Posted July 6, 2004 I never had problems slicing open any locks with a lightsaber as a Guardian. Can't speak for the other classes as I never played through as a Sentinel or Consular.
Indalecio Posted July 6, 2004 Posted July 6, 2004 It may also depend if you're playing a Guardian character. My Guardian could slice through doors and locks in a few hits. That might be. I usually play a Consular.
ShinIchiro Posted July 6, 2004 Posted July 6, 2004 I've played as them all and as long as you get the special Yavin crystals you're fine. By the end of the game slicing doors should be like a joke. Of course it's easier if you're a guardian or even a sentinal. A consular can still do it easily though. Probably 2-3 turns for a consular as it is advisable for them to only use one weapon.
Judge Hades Posted July 6, 2004 Posted July 6, 2004 There is no real need for skills. All you need is a light saber. After all it is a Star Wars game.
CastleBravo Posted July 6, 2004 Author Posted July 6, 2004 Maybe, but from what I saw, this took forever. -Anybody with a lightsaber and decent strength could bash into anything with a couple good hits. Maybe you were playing the X-box version? From what I saw, in PC version,it might take from 10-20 hits, with a Lightsaber to open a door. Um, no. 10-20 hits? Maybe with 8 strength and a Bothan Shock Stick or something...
ShinIchiro Posted July 6, 2004 Posted July 6, 2004 You'd have to have a negative strength and be flicking your fingers at it to take 20 hits. No, I'm not talking about a negative strength modifier, I'm talking about a negative strength.
Indalecio Posted July 7, 2004 Posted July 7, 2004 Maybe, but from what I saw, this took forever. -Anybody with a lightsaber and decent strength could bash into anything with a couple good hits. Maybe you were playing the X-box version? From what I saw, in PC version,it might take from 10-20 hits, with a Lightsaber to open a door. Um, no. 10-20 hits? Maybe with 8 strength and a Bothan Shock Stick or something... Consular, with 12 Strength, with a Lightsaber. It was simply easier to have someone pick the lock.
icebox15 Posted July 8, 2004 Posted July 8, 2004 Why does everybody use consulars, I muchprefer using a Guardian.
Indalecio Posted July 8, 2004 Posted July 8, 2004 Why does everybody use consulars, I muchprefer using a Guardian. Its harder. I don't like things when they're too easy.
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