force powers

[PSYCHOKILLER]

there is really no dark and light side powers. it is all in how the player uses the powers to either protect or hurt others around them. i played KOTOR with all darkside force powers, but i was a lightside jedi. i used thoes darkside powers to help. not hurt

 

what do you guys think

[EnderAndrew]

I've heard the arguement before.

 

I think the "Star Wars logic" is that it is impossible to summon Force Lightening without calling upon the internal anger that feeds the Dark Side.

 

Most games only allow LS Jedi to use LS powers, and vice versa. KOTOR struck a good balance by allowing you to use cross-powers at a much higher cost. Thusly, a LS jedi could use Force Lightening to protect someone, but it would be difficult for them to use the power.

[ShinIchiro]

Think about it: There is no way in the game to use force lightening without hurting someone. That's why you use it. Thus your intent is to hurt not to protect no matter what the cause you are using it in. I believe there was an argument in the NJO where Luke (I think) says to someone (Kyp I think) that the force should never be used to kill no matter what and that the ends do not justify the means. Luke says this clearly to Wedge at one point. There is no way you can inflict pain using the light side unless it is to help the person. An example is when Corran Horn inflicted pain on people in order to free them from capture from the Yuzzhan Vong.

[EnderAndrew]

Ender wiggles his fingers and uses Affect Mind.

 

"The NJO does not exist. These are not the novels you are looking for."

[ShinIchiro]

Luke talking to wedge about the ends don't justify the means wasn't NJO. I'm thinking Rogue Squadron or Thrawn but I could be wrong.

[EnderAndrew]

Luke talking to wedge about the ends don't justify the means wasn't NJO. I'm thinking Rogue Squadron or Thrawn but I could be wrong.

I was referring to your Vong mention. I wish I could uninvent them.

[ShinIchiro]

I dunno. Sometimes it seems like a good addition to SW and other times I just long for the old, better days of the thrawn era of infrequently released and usually relatively good quality books. My opinion mainly changes depending on which SW book I've read last. Star by Star was excellent and so was Vector Prime. I don't remember the names of the other good ones and the bad ones.

[thepixiesrock]

It has been brought up before but i think that when you use the darkside powers you should eventually gather darkside points. That way you still get a choice on useing them you just eventually turn light or dark. It will in a way, make the darkside more seductive and it will lure you, in a way, to turn to the darkside.

This is one thing i think the first game lacked. There was no real threat to turning to the darkside because you could be lightside and still use dark powers without worry of drawing near the darkside. They should also make it were if you go darkside you will get more powerfull alot quicker instead of the two light and dark being equal. They are equal in a way its just the darkside gets you more power faster.

[ShinIchiro]

Maybe you should level up faster at the beginning of the game and slower at the end If you are darkside. Maybe you should get bonus force powers and feats or attributes quickly but the light side gradually catches up and surpasses. The dark side is the quick path to power but is not neccessarily stronger.

[thepixiesrock]

Maybe you should level up faster at the beginning of the game and slower at the end If you are darkside. Maybe you should get bonus force powers and feats or attributes quickly but the light side gradually catches up and surpasses. The dark side is the quick path to power but is not neccessarily stronger.

 

 

That is a very good idea but it should be extremely hard to go back to the light as i found by just picking a few dialogue options you could quickly turn back to whatever side you wanted.

[EnderAndrew]

They want a certain game balance.

 

The Dark Side should be more violent, and have more powerful combat powers. Check.

 

The Light Side should have a seperate advantage, in this case they have healing. Check.

 

The Dark Side should be seductive (it's easier to extort money than give up money in KOTOR for instance). Check.

 

The Dark Side shoudl have an appropriate disadvantage. In KOTOR's case, you lose Jedi near the end of the game. Check.

 

If I changed anything, I'd have certain NPCs either attack you, or leave your party sooner in KOTOR if you were dark. I see a Dark Side party consisting of Bastilla turned, Canderous, HK-47 and Mission. Everyone else should be dead, or vacated.

[ShinIchiro]

I still feel that the dark side didn't really tempt people. When you went dark you could go back pretty easily, by the end of the game the dark side's extra money didn't even matter. i found money to only be importatn while buying extra weapons as medpacs were incredibly avalible and unneccessary with heal. Also I found the light consistantly stronger as it had heal. I guess kill was nice and death field was occassionally useful. The light also had DESTROY droid which doesn't seem that light (better than destroy person I guess). The light seemed overall safer and equally or more powerful throuughout the whole game. Not just the end.

[anari_quun]

Whoa, waitaminute.

 

"A Jedi uses the Force for knowledge and defense; never for attack." (rough quote) from Empire by Yoda.

 

But...

 

As long as he/she is defending themself, I would assume that a Jedi would use any powers at his/her disposal, up to and including the lightning. Or else, the lightning is a rape of the Force, in which case the disable/destroy droid power being used by a good side Jedi is nonsense. I'm beginning to actually think the latter.

 

"Quicker...easier...more seductive..."

 

Quicker how? To what end? Quicker to become powerful? Powerful how? Strong with the Force powerful? Powerful to fight? Jedi aren't supposed to by trying to solve things through fighting; they're driven to it.

 

Easier to do what? To manipulate objects? To gain knowledge? Enrichment? This quote really doesn't make a lot of sense, actually.

 

I don't think the leveling has to be any faster. The Dark sider is quicker to power by nature; instead of being fair/nice/benevolent and helping people, you're serving yourself and taking away from others, which winds up making you more powerful. Whereas a Jedi might have to train long and arduously with a lightsaber, the Dark Jedi begins to learn how to harm with the Force directly.

 

I do agree with the Dark side points for Dark side powers logic, but not with good side points for using good powers. Only good deeds should bring you closer to the good side, which I think explains itself.

[EnderAndrew]

I didn't play the game DS, though my girlfriend did. The options didn't appeal to me. I just started up a new game playing dark, and I'm not digging it thus far. I think having Heal is a huge advantage, and yet I've heard people complain that the Dark Side was far too powerful because of their attack powers.

 

To each their own.

[anari_quun]

If I changed anything, I'd have certain NPCs either attack you, or leave your party sooner in KOTOR if you were dark. I see a Dark Side party consisting of Bastilla turned, Canderous, HK-47 and Mission. Everyone else should be dead, or vacated.

Right on. Why would Carth still be hanging out with you after you obviously are quite evil?

[ShinIchiro]

I still say dark side gets stat, maybe skill, maybe feat, and probably experience bonuses. Maybe a dark sider gains 1.25 as much experience in the first 1/3 of the game while LS gains 1.3 times as much exp in the last 3rd.

[anari_quun]

I didn't play the game DS, though my girlfriend did. The options didn't appeal to me. I just started up a new game playing dark, and I'm not digging it thus far. I think having Heal is a huge advantage, and yet I've heard people complain that the Dark Side was far too powerful because of their attack powers.

 

To each their own.

Yeah, you have to act like a real scumbag in order to earn Dark side points, whereas in ROTJ, Luke could have fallen to the Dark side instantlyfor killing Vader, however Luke probably wouldn't have killed people for money...

[anari_quun]

I still say dark side gets stat, maybe skill, maybe feat, and probably experience bonuses. Maybe a dark sider gains 1.25 as much experience in the first 1/3 of the game while LS gains 1.3 times as much exp in the last 3rd.

Actually, I think you're right, come to think of it.

[ShinIchiro]

What exactly am I right about? The more exp or the general idea of dark side good at beginning (quick power) and light gradually catches up and maybe surpasses. Maybe the LS's good powers should have higher lvl requisites whereas the dark siders get almost as good powers at far lower levels.

[EnderAndrew]

The old West End sourcebooks give Luke darkside points for Force choking the Gammorean guards even though he didn't kill them.

[ShinIchiro]

Intent to hurt. There were other options like telekinesis and affect mind. Maybe even knocking them unconcious. My interpretation is that using a power that hurts or kills someone when there is any other option that is better is the dark side. I once again refrence Horn's inflicting pain as the only way to save people.

[nightcleaver]

I still say dark side gets stat, maybe skill, maybe feat, and probably experience bonuses.  Maybe a dark sider gains 1.25 as much experience in the first 1/3 of the game while LS gains 1.3 times as much exp in the last 3rd.

I agree, but I think the darkside should take a negative modifier later on, and be significantly faster and more powerful early on. The difference should be tangible to the player. Experience alone isn't, really, until you REALLY put some thought into it.

[EnderAndrew]

As a Star Wars GM, intent was always the key with me. If you used the Force to kill someone, while in defense of another then you didn't get DS points.

 

There were times players argued DS points. I had a Force Adept player being pursued by a much more powerful Dark Jedi. The Force Adept wedged their lighsaber in a doorway and tried their best to conceal it. When the Dark Jedi entered the doorway, the Adept turned it on via telekinesis.

 

I gave the player a DS point for using the Force to kill.

[ShinIchiro]

Wow, you must be strict giving out DS points. My GM is rather inexperienced and doesn't know exactly when to give DS points. The other players are also inexperienced. I GM LOTR and Buffy the Vampire Slayer RPGs. WHile I would debate the self defense and no choice matter, your point is taken.

[nightcleaver]

As a Star Wars GM, intent was always the key with me.