The All Things Political Topic - In politics stupidity is not a handicap

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

2 hours ago, majestic said:

Any suprised reaction is predicated on Bruce clicking the link and properly comprehending the contents. I'm betting that you'll be the ones having a surprised Pickachu face when he replies.

 

You naughty

But this isn't Project 2025 because their not saying its Project 2025 ? I understand your concern but in  these debates we shouldn't get  distracted because the media is outraged

[uuuhhii]

usa are now threaten many south america nation for not accept their deported population

acceleration to the inevitable end

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

https://abc13.com/post/andrew-taake-pardoned-alleged-role-jan-6-2021-riots-faces-online-solicitation-charge-minor-records-show/15839204/

What's the opposite of a shocked Pikachu?

[BruceVC]

6 hours ago, uuuhhii said:

usa are now threaten many south america nation for not accept their deported population

acceleration to the inevitable end

Im interested, why shouldnt any country not accept there illegal citizens? Who should accept them if not the country they come from?

 

9 hours ago, majestic said:

Any suprised reaction is predicated on Bruce clicking the link and properly comprehending the contents. I'm betting that you'll be the ones having a surprised Pickachu face when he replies.

 

I explained several times my position on Project 2025 but I will explain it AGAIN 

Its a 900 page Heritage Foundation blueprint and I always asked  what parts of it you worried that Trump will implement. But since no one ever read that document or had any real interest in reading it that debate died

But the original discussion was based on this image and that was what I commented on

 

I also mentioned several times that Trump will implement parts of Project 2025 because its considered standard Conservative ideology and linked to campaign promises  but I said he wont implement the fearmongering parts like  Federal ban on abortion

 But we can discuss what parts of Project 2025 will be implemented because now we can see. Some things Trump is doing I support like border security so you wont find any drama from me around  that and the US leaving the WHO is not a big deal considering how easily that funding shortfall can be solved by dozens of other wealthy countries like China  and this is mentioned in  the link as an " issue " 

End of the day lets have these debates but its best to discuss specific points 

 

[BruceVC]

https://www.reuters.com/world/americas/colombias-petro-will-not-allow-us-planes-return-migrants-2025-01-26/

"U.S. President Donald Trump had threatened tariffs and sanctions on Colombia to punish it for earlier refusing to accept military flights carrying deportees as part of his sweeping immigration crackdown.

But in a statement late on Sunday, the White House said Colombia had agreed to accept the migrants after all and Washington would not impose its threatened penalties. "

 

I really dont get the initial outrage from Colombia about this, as I mentioned in the previous post why would any country not accept there own citizens back? Where else should they be deported to ...thats the official definition of deportation?

I think Trump is over playing the tariffs card but in this case it  shouldnt have been necessary to threaten tariffs because every government should accept its own citizens 

 

 

 

[rjshae]

33 minutes ago, BruceVC said:

I really dont get the initial outrage from Colombia about this, as I mentioned in the previous post why would any country not accept there own citizens back? Where else should they be deported to ...thats the official definition of deportation?

One might suspect it is driven by a long history of US intervention in Latin America. For example, we did support the secession movement that led to the separation of Panama from Columbia in 1903 (in order to build the Panama Canal).

[Malcador]

Seemed to be how those people were treated specifically, rather than anything about the deportations in general.  Apparently a great victory for the US to make Colombia kneel, though

[BruceVC]

3 minutes ago, Malcador said:

Seemed to be how those people were treated specifically, rather than anything about the deportations in general.  Apparently a great victory for the US to make Colombia kneel, though

Nah, its got nothing to do with kneeling to accept your own citizen back when they have been deported because of illegally trying to enter a country

South Africa has deported tens of thousands of people and no country has refused this 

The Colombia government created this drama and there was no need for it 

 

 

 

[HoonDing]

Trump, I don’t like traveling to the U.S. much, it’s a bit boring, but I confess there are worthy things. I like to go to the Black neighborhoods of Washington. There, I saw a whole fight in the capital of the U.S. between Blacks and Latinos, with barricades, which seemed to me like nonsense, because they should unite.

I confess that I like Walt Whitman, Paul Simon, Noam Chomsky, and Miller.

I confess that Sacco and Vanzetti, who have my blood, in the history of the U.S., are memorable and I follow them. They were murdered for being labor leaders with the electric chair by the fascists who are inside the U.S. just as they are in my country.

I don’t like your oil, Trump, you are going to end the human species with greed. Maybe one day, along with a drink of whisky—which I accept despite my gastritis—we can talk frankly about this, but it’s difficult because you consider me an inferior race, and I am not, nor is any Colombian.

So if you are looking for a stubborn person, that’s me, period. You can try to stage a coup with your economic power and arrogance, like you did with Allende. But I will die by my law, I withstood torture, and I resist you. I don’t want slave owners on Colombia’s side, we already had many and we freed ourselves. Who I want to be on Colombia’s side are lovers of freedom. If you can’t join me, I will go elsewhere. Colombia is the heart of the world, and you didn’t understand it. This is the land of the yellow butterflies, the beauty of Remedios, but also of Colonel Aureliano Buendía, one of whom I am, perhaps the last.

You will kill me, but I will survive in my town, which is before yours, in the Americas. We are peoples of the winds, the mountains, the Caribbean Sea, and freedom.

You don’t like our freedom, fine. I do not shake hands with white slave owners. I shake the hands of libertarian whites, heirs of Lincoln, and of the Black and white rural boys from the U.S., in front of whose graves I cried and prayed on a battlefield, which I reached after walking through the mountains of Tuscany and after saving myself from COVID.

They are the US, and before them, I kneel, before no one else.

Overthrow me president, and the Americas and humanity will respond.

Colombia, now stop looking to the north, look to the world, our blood comes from the blood of the Caliphate of Córdoba, the civilization of that time, from the Roman Latins of the Mediterranean, the civilization of that time, who founded the republic, democracy in Athens; our blood carries the resistant Black people who were turned into slaves by you. In Colombia lies the first free territory of the Americas, before Washington, of all the Americas, I take refuge there in their African songs.

My land is of the goldsmiths that existed in the time of the Egyptian pharaohs, and of the first artists in the world in Chiribiquete.

You will never dominate us. The warrior who rode our lands, shouting freedom, and who is called Bolívar, opposes you.

Our peoples are somewhat fearful, somewhat shy, they are naive and kind, lovers, but they will know how to win back the Panama Canal, which you took from us with violence. Two hundred heroes from all over Latin America lie in Bocas del Toro, now Panama, before Colombia, whom you murdered.

I raise a flag, and as Gaitán said, even if I am alone, it will remain raised with Latin American dignity, which is the dignity of America, which your great-grandfather didn’t know, but mine did, Mr. President, immigrant in the US.

Your blockade does not scare me because Colombia, in addition to being the country of beauty, is the heart of the world. I know you love beauty as I do, don’t disrespect it, and it will offer you its sweetness.

COLOMBIA FROM NOW ON FACES THE WHOLE WORLD, WITH OPEN ARMS, WE ARE BUILDERS OF FREEDOM, LIFE, AND HUMANITY.

I have been informed that you impose a 50% tariff on the fruit of our human labor to enter the US, I will do the same.

Let our people plant corn, which was discovered in Colombia, and feed the world.

Edited 19 hours ago by HoonDing

[BruceVC]

2 hours ago, HoonDing said:

Trump, I don’t like traveling to the U.S. much, it’s a bit boring, but I confess there are worthy things. I like to go to the Black neighborhoods of Washington. There, I saw a whole fight in the capital of the U.S. between Blacks and Latinos, with barricades, which seemed to me like nonsense, because they should unite.

I confess that I like Walt Whitman, Paul Simon, Noam Chomsky, and Miller.

I confess that Sacco and Vanzetti, who have my blood, in the history of the U.S., are memorable and I follow them. They were murdered for being labor leaders with the electric chair by the fascists who are inside the U.S. just as they are in my country.

I don’t like your oil, Trump, you are going to end the human species with greed. Maybe one day, along with a drink of whisky—which I accept despite my gastritis—we can talk frankly about this, but it’s difficult because you consider me an inferior race, and I am not, nor is any Colombian.

So if you are looking for a stubborn person, that’s me, period. You can try to stage a coup with your economic power and arrogance, like you did with Allende. But I will die by my law, I withstood torture, and I resist you. I don’t want slave owners on Colombia’s side, we already had many and we freed ourselves. Who I want to be on Colombia’s side are lovers of freedom. If you can’t join me, I will go elsewhere. Colombia is the heart of the world, and you didn’t understand it. This is the land of the yellow butterflies, the beauty of Remedios, but also of Colonel Aureliano Buendía, one of whom I am, perhaps the last.

You will kill me, but I will survive in my town, which is before yours, in the Americas. We are peoples of the winds, the mountains, the Caribbean Sea, and freedom.

You don’t like our freedom, fine. I do not shake hands with white slave owners. I shake the hands of libertarian whites, heirs of Lincoln, and of the Black and white rural boys from the U.S., in front of whose graves I cried and prayed on a battlefield, which I reached after walking through the mountains of Tuscany and after saving myself from COVID.

They are the US, and before them, I kneel, before no one else.

Overthrow me president, and the Americas and humanity will respond.

Colombia, now stop looking to the north, look to the world, our blood comes from the blood of the Caliphate of Córdoba, the civilization of that time, from the Roman Latins of the Mediterranean, the civilization of that time, who founded the republic, democracy in Athens; our blood carries the resistant Black people who were turned into slaves by you. In Colombia lies the first free territory of the Americas, before Washington, of all the Americas, I take refuge there in their African songs.

My land is of the goldsmiths that existed in the time of the Egyptian pharaohs, and of the first artists in the world in Chiribiquete.

You will never dominate us. The warrior who rode our lands, shouting freedom, and who is called Bolívar, opposes you.

Our peoples are somewhat fearful, somewhat shy, they are naive and kind, lovers, but they will know how to win back the Panama Canal, which you took from us with violence. Two hundred heroes from all over Latin America lie in Bocas del Toro, now Panama, before Colombia, whom you murdered.

I raise a flag, and as Gaitán said, even if I am alone, it will remain raised with Latin American dignity, which is the dignity of America, which your great-grandfather didn’t know, but mine did, Mr. President, immigrant in the US.

Your blockade does not scare me because Colombia, in addition to being the country of beauty, is the heart of the world. I know you love beauty as I do, don’t disrespect it, and it will offer you its sweetness.

COLOMBIA FROM NOW ON FACES THE WHOLE WORLD, WITH OPEN ARMS, WE ARE BUILDERS OF FREEDOM, LIFE, AND HUMANITY.

I have been informed that you impose a 50% tariff on the fruit of our human labor to enter the US, I will do the same.

Let our people plant corn, which was discovered in Colombia, and feed the world.

And its this  type of egregious sensationalism from the Colombian  president that made  him look stupid when he folded in 24 hours 

You must choose your battles with Trump and this was not one of them

End of the day this was about one obvious question, do you accept your own citizens when they deported and the answer for any government should be an unequivocal  "YES "

This type of populist rhetoric has no relevance to that question and its better suited for UNGA rants about the US 

 

[majestic]

Paywalled, but still: Trump’s Oil and Gas Donors Don’t Really Want to ‘Drill, Baby, Drill’

Energy companies don't want a repeat of a price collapse by flooding the market? Who woulda thunk.

So, let's see. Egg prices are on a record high, farmers' illegal work force is a no show in certain areas, Mexican and Canadian steelmakers refuse new orders from US companies and energy prices aren't coming down any time soon either, by the looks of it.

But at least there's only two genders now, and the Gulf of Mexico is now called Gulf of America, but only in the US. The US won bigly so far, I hope to able to watch them win even biglier once Trump actually makes good on his tariffs (although for some reason there already seems to be some waffling on the promised tariffs for China).

Edited 16 hours ago by majestic

[Lexx]

https://crypto.news/official-trump-meme-coin-price-crashes-as-whales-dump/

"Official Trump meme coin price crashes as whales dump"

Oh no, I bet this is the evil workings of the Dems. At least we still have $Melania coin.

[majestic]

35 minutes ago, Lexx said:

https://crypto.news/official-trump-meme-coin-price-crashes-as-whales-dump/

"Official Trump meme coin price crashes as whales dump"

Oh no, I bet this is the evil workings of the Dems. At least we still have $Melania coin.

You funny Lexx  surly that is normal market behavior nothing strange there.

[HoonDing]

GREENLANDERS!
Learn to know the Americans.
We are flying over Nuuk; we could drop tons of bombs. All we are dropping on you is a greeting of three colors: the three colors of liberty.
We Americans do not put tariffs on children, on old people, on women.
We put tariffs on your government, the enemy of national liberty, on your blind, stubborn, cruel government that can give you neither peace nor bread, and feeds you hatred and illusions.

GREENLANDERS!
You are famous for being intelligent. But why have you put on Danish uniform? By now, you see, the whole world has turned against you.
You want to continue to deny us? Continue it; it's your suicide. What do you hope for? A decisive victory promised to you by the Danish prime minister? Their decisive victory is like the victory of Ukraine: You die waiting for it.

PEOPLE OF NUUK, think of your own fates. Wake up!
LONG LIVE LIBERTY!
LONG LIVE AMERICA!
LONG LIVE TRUMP!

[Malcador]

6 hours ago, BruceVC said:

Nah, its got nothing to do with kneeling to accept your own citizen back when they have been deported because of illegally trying to enter a country

South Africa has deported tens of thousands of people and no country has refused this 

The Colombia government created this drama and there was no need for it 

Well in terms of disagreeing, you've not seeing the reporting on Colombia "caving", etc ? Plenty of Americans rejoicing at this show of power, which is rather hilarious - these people are like the Russians we've always heard that only understand force

  

6 hours ago, HoonDing said:

Trump, I don’t like traveling to the U.S. much, it’s a bit boring, but I confess there are worthy things. I like to go to the Black neighborhoods of Washington. There, I saw a whole fight in the capital of the U.S. between Blacks and Latinos, with barricades, which seemed to me like nonsense, because they should unite.

I confess that I like Walt Whitman, Paul Simon, Noam Chomsky, and Miller.

I confess that Sacco and Vanzetti, who have my blood, in the history of the U.S., are memorable and I follow them. They were murdered for being labor leaders with the electric chair by the fascists who are inside the U.S. just as they are in my country.

I don’t like your oil, Trump, you are going to end the human species with greed. Maybe one day, along with a drink of whisky—which I accept despite my gastritis—we can talk frankly about this, but it’s difficult because you consider me an inferior race, and I am not, nor is any Colombian.

So if you are looking for a stubborn person, that’s me, period. You can try to stage a coup with your economic power and arrogance, like you did with Allende. But I will die by my law, I withstood torture, and I resist you. I don’t want slave owners on Colombia’s side, we already had many and we freed ourselves. Who I want to be on Colombia’s side are lovers of freedom. If you can’t join me, I will go elsewhere. Colombia is the heart of the world, and you didn’t understand it. This is the land of the yellow butterflies, the beauty of Remedios, but also of Colonel Aureliano Buendía, one of whom I am, perhaps the last.

You will kill me, but I will survive in my town, which is before yours, in the Americas. We are peoples of the winds, the mountains, the Caribbean Sea, and freedom.

You don’t like our freedom, fine. I do not shake hands with white slave owners. I shake the hands of libertarian whites, heirs of Lincoln, and of the Black and white rural boys from the U.S., in front of whose graves I cried and prayed on a battlefield, which I reached after walking through the mountains of Tuscany and after saving myself from COVID.

They are the US, and before them, I kneel, before no one else.

Overthrow me president, and the Americas and humanity will respond.

Colombia, now stop looking to the north, look to the world, our blood comes from the blood of the Caliphate of Córdoba, the civilization of that time, from the Roman Latins of the Mediterranean, the civilization of that time, who founded the republic, democracy in Athens; our blood carries the resistant Black people who were turned into slaves by you. In Colombia lies the first free territory of the Americas, before Washington, of all the Americas, I take refuge there in their African songs.

My land is of the goldsmiths that existed in the time of the Egyptian pharaohs, and of the first artists in the world in Chiribiquete.

You will never dominate us. The warrior who rode our lands, shouting freedom, and who is called Bolívar, opposes you.

Our peoples are somewhat fearful, somewhat shy, they are naive and kind, lovers, but they will know how to win back the Panama Canal, which you took from us with violence. Two hundred heroes from all over Latin America lie in Bocas del Toro, now Panama, before Colombia, whom you murdered.

I raise a flag, and as Gaitán said, even if I am alone, it will remain raised with Latin American dignity, which is the dignity of America, which your great-grandfather didn’t know, but mine did, Mr. President, immigrant in the US.

Your blockade does not scare me because Colombia, in addition to being the country of beauty, is the heart of the world. I know you love beauty as I do, don’t disrespect it, and it will offer you its sweetness.

COLOMBIA FROM NOW ON FACES THE WHOLE WORLD, WITH OPEN ARMS, WE ARE BUILDERS OF FREEDOM, LIFE, AND HUMANITY.

I have been informed that you impose a 50% tariff on the fruit of our human labor to enter the US, I will do the same.

Let our people plant corn, which was discovered in Colombia, and feed the world.

Well, at least he writes better than Trump.

 

Edited 13 hours ago by Malcador

[BruceVC]

30 minutes ago, Malcador said:

Well in terms of disagreeing, you've not seeing the reporting on Colombia "caving", etc ? Plenty of Americans rejoicing at this show of power, which is rather hilarious - these people are like the Russians we've always heard that only understand force

  

 

 

I mentioned before that I'm going to try very hard to not focus on the drama and sensationalism of Trumps presidency

For example obsessing about Greenland and Canada being annexed and all the SM attention around this

I realize this is very entertaining for many people and thats there choice but we have 4 years of Trump so I am going to focus on the outcomes of his policies and do they have  a practical and successful implementation

So things like ending the Israel vs Palestinian conflict and then the border and his efforts to reduce the illegal migration crisis  and also the final  reality of inflation. These were the main points around how he won the election 

The deportations are part of that so it interests me. I am not concerned with those Americans thinking this Colombia outcome was as example of  " Trump winning " because like I mentioned its expected for any government to accept its own citizens back

Trump also risks overusing the tariffs card, in the case of Colombia it was an effective threat but it should never have been necessary in the first place but thats on the Colombian president for creating this issue 

 

[Malcador]

23 minutes ago, BruceVC said:

The deportations are part of that so it interests me. I am not concerned with those Americans thinking this Colombia outcome was as example of  " Trump winning " because like I mentioned its expected for any government to accept its own citizens back

I'm not all that concerned either, was a passing mention you're inflating as usual.  A mere post on a forum isn't that heavy.  Also I'm not just posting to you, you know.

As I mentioned earlier Colombia's taking plenty back before, maybe something about this flight irked them.  At least Brazil did it in a normal manner - https://www.ap7am.com/en/94313/the-world-is-shocked-how-the-us-deported-brazilian-migrants-in-a-distressing-manner

23 minutes ago, BruceVC said:

Trump also risks overusing the tariffs card, in the case of Colombia it was an effective threat but it should never have been necessary in the first place but thats on the Colombian president for creating this issue 

Probably will work out, at least short term, if the US threatens smaller nations to obey it.  Long term will be a loss of soft power perhaps, but not like Americans care much about that.

Edited 12 hours ago by Malcador

[Malcador]

8 hours ago, BruceVC said:

ts a 900 page Heritage Foundation blueprint and I always asked  what parts of it you worried that Trump will implement. But since no one ever read that document or had any real interest in reading it that debate died

How do you know no one has read it ? 

I've mentioned the part on the military that I read, for example. Or do you have a mobile goalpost for that as well.

The article itself does outline the EOs vs 2025 as well, did you read it ?

[majestic]

17 minutes ago, Malcador said:

The article itself does outline the EOs vs 2025 as well, did you read it ?

No, he's still looking for that critical race theory curriculum.

[BruceVC]

37 minutes ago, Malcador said:

How do you know no one has read it ? 

I've mentioned the part on the military that I read, for example. Or do you have a mobile goalpost for that as well.

The article itself does outline the EOs vs 2025 as well, did you read it ?

Are  you asking me if I think anyone on this forum has  read the 900 page Heritage Foundation Project 2025  blueprint ....seriously 

 

No I dont think anyone would waste that amount of time but if they  have  thats an amazing effort and then they can discuss which parts align exactly with Trumps policies

 

 But @majestic original link even states " While many of Trump’s executive orders resemble Project 2025’s proposals, not all of them fully align with the document’s recommendations. Some executive actions, such as the push to declare an energy emergency and the attempt to challenge birthright citizenship, are not directly addressed in the blueprint, for example. "

But Im more than happy to discuss what parts of Project 2025 are   aligned  to Trumps policies because some of then would be  as part of expected Conservative policies 

 

Edited 11 hours ago by BruceVC

[Malcador]

I forget you can't anticipate actions. Wonder why armies waste time with intelligence departments.

Also it's not that hard a read, beyond the usual right wing sneering tone. No harder a read than a textbook or a book by an author with no editor like Stephenson

Edited 11 hours ago by Malcador

[BruceVC]

18 minutes ago, Malcador said:

I forget you can't anticipate actions. Wonder why armies waste time with intelligence departments.

Also it's not that hard a read, beyond the usual right wing sneering tone. No harder a read than a textbook or a book by an author with no editor like Stephenson

And again lets discuss it, give me the examples of Project 2025 that align with Trumps policies and I will tell you what  I think

But be specific 

[Malcador]

Just now, BruceVC said:

And again lets discuss it, give me the examples of Project 2025 that align with Trumps policies and I will tell you what  I think

But be specific 

Can be done as they get carried out, as I mentioned earlier, the concern during the election was anticipating this, for obvious reasons. And can still do that now, as it is a nascent government.  

As for specifics, the Time article mentions some. The line you quoted doesn't negate the whole thesis, it's not binary.

The same value in discussing what they might do as there is at the point if they do those things. We're on an internet forum after all.  The only result w.r.t. P2025 is that it may have been an accurate attack from the Dems during the election, really.

 

[Malcador]

https://archive.is/CLgeE

Remarkable from a leader on Blue Team.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

7 hours ago, majestic said:

But at least there's only two genders now, and the Gulf of Mexico is now called Gulf of America, but only in the US. The US won bigly so far, I hope to able to watch them win even biglier once Trump actually makes good on his tariffs (although for some reason there already seems to be some waffling on the promised tariffs for China).

Many people are saying it's the greatest first week in the history of our country. Maybe even the history of the world. Never been anything like it.