Ukraine Conflict - In the grim darkness of the near future, there is only war!

[Malcador]

They just need to call it "enhanced interrogation", and it'll be fine.

[Zoraptor]

9 hours ago, Elerond said:

Assassination of generals happens in every war

Yep, and personally I wouldn't call it terrorism either, despite the method. That does mean it isn't terrorism when Russia does it either though.

9 hours ago, Elerond said:

https://news.un.org/en/story/2023/09/1141417

That seems pretty standard, for war, and the complete lack of any statistics beyond an age range is telling. That always suggests the absolute number is low.

You'd have been better off quoting their most recent report about sexual mistreatment of POWs. Even then, the same thing is happening right now in Israel, and was very well documented as happening with the US as well. So there's an excellent case that's just par for the course for warfare but being highlighted here primarily because it's the bad guys doing it.

Most of the claims of rape being systemic still resolve down to one single Ukrainian official- who got sacked for lying too outrageously.

[BruceVC]

14 hours ago, Malcador said:

They just need to call it "enhanced interrogation", and it'll be fine.

Come on its Christmas and holiday  time 

You can  do  much better than that, playing the " look how bad the US is because of enhanced interrogation "   card  is so....so 2010ish 

 

I can appreciate  the appropriate use of whataboutism but this is not one of those times 

 

We talking about the reality of the long list of Russian war crimes   in Ukraine  and how some of the Russian military have been involved in rape and killing of civilians.

Lets stay on point 

 

 

 

[Malcador]

Was more thinking of the IDF, really, more than the bankrupt complaints on moral grounds from the US.  Hardly excusing Russia to point out that, but oh well.

They probably do refer to torture as that though, internally, sanitized language works well to reference Carlin.

 

https://kyivindependent.com/over-12-000-civilians-killed-in-ukraine-since-russias-full-scale-war-un-says/

~40k civilian casualties in 3 years. Still behind Gaza, hah. Although I think people say 100k died in Mariupol

[Mamoulian War]

Seems like the UA numbers about the RU casualties are pretty accurate. Mayor of Moscow admitted to cameras, that there are currently 600k soldiers attending medical rehabilitation .

Excerpt of his speech is somewhere after 3 minute mark of the video below.

Also Russia shot down another civilian airliner, and and ther “chinese” ship cut another cable.

 

[Mamoulian War]

On 12/19/2024 at 10:08 AM, uuuhhii said:

assassination using disguised bomb are act of terror

guess the only thing can stop bad guy with bomb is good guy with bomb

Nevermind that Russia has launched thousands of cruise missiles at civilian targets during the last few months. It’s the killing of General who ordered it, that should be called the act of Terrorism…

[Gorth]

1 hour ago, Mamoulian War said:

Nevermind that Russia has launched thousands of cruise missiles at civilian targets during the last few months. It’s the killing of General who ordered it, that should be called the act of Terrorism…

I don't think the world is fair. Funny thing about rules, laws, legal justice etc. is, it's inherently "unfair". Experience has just shown the world is less likely to descend into complete chaos if there are rules frameworks in place, no matter how much they get twisted, turned and abused for selfish purposes.

[uuuhhii]

2 hours ago, Mamoulian War said:

Nevermind that Russia has launched thousands of cruise missiles at civilian targets during the last few months. It’s the killing of General who ordered it, that should be called the act of Terrorism…

 

either act of terror matter or they don't

obviously they don't matter

as proven by last century of history

[Mamoulian War]

21 hours ago, uuuhhii said:

 

either act of terror matter or they don't

obviously they don't matter

as proven by last century of history

Destruction of any military target, which is actively engaged in the hostilities, wherever he is residing, is a valid defense. Especially, when no collateral damage has been inflicted. For all sides of the conflict. Terrorist attack performed by UA was the van exploding on Kerch Bridge. Although few people might dispute it as it was performed to slow down the most used logistic route to occupied Crimea. Liquidation of a war criminal and mass murderer of civilians is definitely not such case.

[Mamoulian War]

First confirmed capture of “never deployed” DPRK soldier into Europe has been reported. Including picture.

https://bsky.app/profile/specialkhersoncat.bsky.social/post/3leblo456ps27

[uuuhhii]

4 hours ago, Mamoulian War said:

Destruction of any military target, which is actively engaged in the hostilities, wherever he is residing, is a valid defense. Especially, when no collateral damage has been inflicted. For all sides of the conflict. Terrorist attack performed by UA was the van exploding on Kerch Bridge. Although few people might dispute it as it was performed to slow down the most used logistic route to occupied Crimea. Liquidation of a war criminal and mass murderer of civilians is definitely not such case.

 

so some target are acceptable and anything else is with in negotiating territory

how is the problem not obvious enough

Edited December 27, 2024 by uuuhhii

[Malcador]

4 hours ago, Mamoulian War said:

First confirmed capture of “never deployed” DPRK soldier into Europe has been reported. Including picture.

https://bsky.app/profile/specialkhersoncat.bsky.social/post/3leblo456ps27

 Although not sure why it matters, that much, well other than people who want NATO troops in Ukraine for some reason.  But good to have something other than having to trust in the omniscient UA intelligence

 

[Zoraptor]

Still recursive proof even then.

Ukraine says it captures him, South Korea says it has been told by Ukraine they captured him, this is used as proof that he was Korean since it's been confirmed by ROK that Ukraine had a capture after being told the same by Ukraine.

Was Korean, since he has now- conveniently- died.

Imagine that sequence along with claims like no bodies because Russia are burning them all (after unsuccessful meat wave assaults no less) coming from Russia to prove South Korean troops were being used. Fairly sure that wouldn't be taken seriously by the Special Kherson Cats of the world.

(In some ways it would be better if it weren't true for Ukraine, since photographing injured POWs for propaganda purposes is 100% a war crime; though a fairly minor one compared to others that both sides have been doing like drone dropping on those hors de combat. And of course one that is not likely to meet any resistance from those who have staked their rep on NK troops being there)

 

[Malcador]

From what Ukrainians are saying the DPRK troops aren't good. Also apparently they kill themselves rather than surrender.

The Eagle S was carrying spy equipment https://www.lloydslist.com/LL1151955/Russia-linked-cable-cutting-tanker-seized-by-Finland-was-loaded-with-spying-equipment

Although not sure if that's something that needs retaliation especially, not like NATO isn't also spying just near RF borders.

[Zoraptor]

29 minutes ago, Malcador said:

From what Ukrainians are saying the DPRK troops aren't good. Also apparently they kill themselves rather than surrender.

Which sums up the problem really.

Morale is so low they're addicted to pr0n and deserting en masse, they're rubbish soldiers suffering 1000 casualties a day when they aren't comically blowing themselves and the Russians up accidentally; yet their morale is simultaneously so high they'd rather die than be captured and of their 1000 casualties only one has resulted in a (purported) capture while the bodies from the unsuccessful assaults are being burnt by Russians (while the Ukrainians... just watch on without shooting?) I mean really, Z comes up with some odd stuff at times but that defies any rational explanation beyond wanting some reason, any reason for the lack of evidence.

Edited December 27, 2024 by Zoraptor

[Malcador]

 

 

[HoonDing]

As usual, the Norks are weak, losing 1,000 men per day, but also strong - since Ukraine is getting kicked out of Kursk.

[BruceVC]

https://www.nknews.org/2025/01/ukraine-ready-to-hand-over-kim-jong-uns-soldiers-in-prisoner-swap-zelensky/

Further evidence of NK deployments in Ukraine

But what made me laugh is one of the soldiers would rather stay a prisoner than to be returned to NK

Imagine how terrible it must be in NK when you would prefer being a prisoner than going home 

" But video of the soldiers’ interrogation that he released the same day suggested at least one of the POWs may not want to return to the DPRK, raising concerns about the potential for exchanges to violate prisoners’ wishes and international laws against sending people to countries where they could face persecution. "

 

[Zoraptor]

Further evidence? It's the first evidence which isn't just an assertion repeated multiple times in the hope it becomes proof.

Whether that evidence outweighs the requirement not to expose POWs to (note: direct quote from GCIII) "public curiosity" is... an open question. One suspects that protection, as always, only applies to people we like and not those we don't.

Kind of knew that the 'wants to stay in Ukraine' thing was going to get repeated as soon as I saw it.
 

Quote

 

NK: Will you let me go home?

Korean Interpreter: You want to go home?

NK: If you let me, I'll go home.

Korean Int: If they let you go home you'll go? If they let you stay in Ukraine, you will stay?

NK: "Nods his head in agreement"

 

The pow is pretty clearly saying what he thinks the interrogator wants him to. Which is of course the inherent problem with interviewing POWs.

[Lexx]

Why do we need proof for that anyways, what would it change? It's not like we would suddenly do something different.

Edited Monday at 09:10 AM by Lexx

[BruceVC]

1 hour ago, Zoraptor said:

Further evidence? It's the first evidence which isn't just an assertion repeated multiple times in the hope it becomes proof.

Whether that evidence outweighs the requirement not to expose POWs to (note: direct quote from GCIII) "public curiosity" is... an open question. One suspects that protection, as always, only applies to people we like and not those we don't.

Kind of knew that the 'wants to stay in Ukraine' thing was going to get repeated as soon as I saw it.
 

The pow is pretty clearly saying what he thinks the interrogator wants him to. Which is of course the inherent problem with interviewing POWs.

But you now  believe that NK  troops have been deployed to Ukraine\Kursk and you do  accept that the original reports were true?

 

Because initially you didnt believe it because only Western media was reporting on it?

[Malcador]

5 hours ago, BruceVC said:

But what made me laugh is one of the soldiers would rather stay a prisoner than to be returned to NK

You're taking POW videos at face value ? Really.

  

3 hours ago, Lexx said:

Why do we need proof for that anyways, what would it change? It's not like we would suddenly do something different.

Not sure really, have seen people say it's justification (near an obligation to some loons) for ROK to send aid or troops as well.  As Ukraine is the greatest concern of all nations, heh.  Not sure why ROK cares if DPRK wants to send their troops to die in a far off land, that much. Gaining experience is one things, but this isn't a ****ing RPG.

Edited Monday at 12:52 PM by Malcador

[BruceVC]

41 minutes ago, Malcador said:

You're taking POW videos at face value ? Really.

  

 

I do believe many NK if given an opportunity would love to not live in NK

We have lots or precedent around NK citizens trying to escape the authoritarian  hellhole they live in 

So yes its not hard to believe that some NK  soldiers fighting in Ukraine dont want to go home 

[HoonDing]

They look like Russians from Buryatia rather than Korean.

[Zoraptor]

People who should know say that they're speaking Korean with a genuine NK accent and I haven't seen a single nay sayer about that. There are ways to 'fake' it- like ship in a couple of defectors who have been in ROK a while- but there isn't any evidence of that. It's enough to shift the burden of evidence.

2 POWs out of 3000 supposed casualties is certainly an 'interesting' ratio though. If you had that ratio at, say, Mariupol it means the Ukrainians would have suffered more than 5 million casualties. Ukraine admits to 8000 captured, at the same ratio that would mean 12 million casualties for them over the course of the war. If you used the same ratio Ukraine claims for its troops for NK though NK casualties would be about 120 which seems far more plausible.

9 hours ago, BruceVC said:

But you now  believe that NK  troops have been deployed to Ukraine\Kursk and you do  accept that the original reports were true?

Because initially you didnt believe it because only Western media was reporting on it?

See, now this is a perfectly crafted Bruce post. Claim a poster said something they didn't, put in an obvious falsehood (deployed to Ukraine, since, unless you're Liz Truss, Kursk is part of Russia) to provoke a reply and frame it all as questions.