Gaza - War does not determine who is right - only who is left

[BruceVC]

5 hours ago, Zoraptor said:

To be fair to them, when the formal investigation was launched a decent number of 'rules based order' countries did say they'd enforce it against Bibi/ Gallant as a matter of course, if warrants were issued- the Dutch and Italians at least off the top of my head. That does rely on them being dumb enough to go to those countries though, so it's a fairly low risk statement in terms of having to follow through. UK and Germany, well, they seem so far to be hoping the issue will just disappear so they don't have to commit. And obviously the US was never going to be exactly pleased with the indictments let alone enforce them.

There are certainly a few things which may get interesting as a result- eg those countries that have laws against weapons trade with war criminals, or if Netanyahu decides to turn up to the UNGA again next year. Not like the US would arrest him, but even with the ICC not being a UN body having a wanted war criminal address the UN General Assembly would be... interesting, if only to see how many walk out in protest vs the number doing it for Iran or similar.

Im sure Putin has  attended  UNGA or similar international meetings since his warrant was issued?

Anyone with an ICC warrant  just avoids countries that are part of the ICC

 

[Malcador]

8 hours ago, PK htiw klaw eriF said:

I'm sure the rules based international order will follow the rule of law and enforce those warrants.

Trudeau said Canada would

But Pollievre basically wants us to obey Israel and he's our next PM.

[pmp10]

On 11/22/2024 at 5:27 AM, BruceVC said:

Anyone with an ICC warrant  just avoids countries that are part of the ICC

That's not likely to last.
I bet Bibi will show up in Berlin or Warsaw before too long.

[BruceVC]

2 hours ago, pmp10 said:

That's not likely to last.
I bet Bibi will show up in Berlin or Warsaw before too long.

Yes, its possible but then those countries that dont enforce an ICC warrant must leave the ICC because whats the point if you dont enforce its warrants

We went through that embarrassing reality in 2016 when South  Africa refused to enforce the warrant for AL-Bashir from Sudan and then the ANC decided to leave the ICC because at  the time they considered the ICC   " an instrument of  regime change "

But this decision was blocked by  our  high courts which ruled the ANC cant unilaterally decide to leave the ICC without Parliamentary approval

Now we love the ICC and all countries must respect its decisions, amazing how much  you can change your views in 8 years 

 

Edited November 23 by BruceVC

[Gorth]

11 hours ago, BruceVC said:

Yes, its possible but then those countries that dont enforce an ICC warrant must leave the ICC because whats the point if you dont enforce its warrants

We went through that embarrassing reality in 2016 when South  Africa refused to enforce the warrant for AL-Bashir from Sudan and then the ANC decided to leave the ICC because at  the time they considered the ICC   " an instrument of  regime change "

But this decision was blocked by  our  high courts which ruled the ANC cant unilaterally decide to leave the ICC without Parliamentary approval

Now we love the ICC and all countries must respect its decisions, amazing how much  you can change your views in 8 years 

 

That's why monarchies are the superior form of government... Politicians and governments come and go every few years

[BruceVC]

41 minutes ago, Gorth said:

That's why monarchies are the superior form of government... Politicians and governments come and go every few years

Dont joke but our latest " socialist\progressive " political party is called MK which is a stolen name from ANC military wing during Apartheid which is called MK (uMkhonto weSizwe )

And its leader is the former SA president Jacob Zuma who was  deeply complicit  in the worst corruption we have ever seen  from 2011-2017 which was called the " Stare Capture " era

Anyway MK has this confusing political manifesto thats a combination of openly anti-Constitutional  objectives and bringing back tribal laws because according to them " Democracy has failed black people "

And 2 of   the things they want to do is change the Constitution so we end up with a Parliamentary sovereignty system  which to them means Parliament and politicians arent accountable to the Constitution because  "the Constitution is responsible for inequality "  and then they want tribal chiefs to be able to create there own customary laws that surpass  our  own normal laws 

Can you imagine the state  South Africa  would be in  if we abandoned the checks and balances that the Constitution provides for politicians  and we no longer maintained our society through laws like how the  judicial system works

The good news is they only got 14% in the last national election and there political growth  remains to be seen as future elections unfold 

 

 

 

[Zoraptor]

18 hours ago, pmp10 said:

That's not likely to last.
I bet Bibi will show up in Berlin or Warsaw before too long.

Bibi is a monomaniac who'd love to showcase his international support to the world, but that narcissism does also mean he won't take risks when it's his arse on the line. In theory, he could not fly through the airspace of any country honouring the ICC warrant (irrespective of him landing) either*. If Greece says they'd arrest him then the route to Germany or Hungary becomes extremely convoluted. Not like he can fly over Syria/ Iraq/ Iran to avoid Turkey/ Greece/ Italy/ France, after all.

Indeed, you could theoretically get a situation where he couldn't get to the US due to being denied transit. Chances of that happening practically aren't high since you could almost certainly rely on someone turning a blind eye, especially if leant on by the US. The almost certainly part is likely to be enough for him to go to the US, since that's big stakes, but to hobnob with Orban? Not so much.

*which is why Putin won't go to, say, Brazil. Whether Brazil would arrest him is only half the relevant threat.

Edited November 24 by Zoraptor

[BruceVC]

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c75lpzq0re1o 
Ceasefire effective between Israel and Hezbollah from yesterday

"Under the deal announced on Tuesday and brokered by the US, there will be a 60-day period during which Israel will gradually withdraw its troops from Lebanon's south as Lebanese government forces regain control of an area currently held by Hezbollah.

It is expected that Hezbollah fighters and weapons will be removed from the area south of the Litani River, a boundary established at the end of the last Israel-Hezbollah war in 2006."

Hopefully it will stand and Hezbollah will not fire rockers into Israel, no change to the military conflict in Gaza but considering the huge military and resource losses that Hezbollah has suffered its understandable this was no longer a demand