Beginner Questions Regarding SC Cipher/Ascendant

[fruitsalad]

Hello!

After completing PoE1 I just started PoE2 with a single class Cipher as main character. Set difficulty is hard with critical path scaling enabled. I just completed the first island and left for Nakataka. Many things seem to have changed over the sequel and I could not find satisfying answers to them. So I just ask them here.

1. My MC is a human SC Cipher Ascendant with One-Handed Style. I planned on concentrating on melee (apart from an opening shot from my pistol), but it seems to be very hard to get enough focus to ascend with my attacks. I picked Draining Whip to help with that, but still. One thing that kind of bugs me is that some fights have been really difficult. So I feel the need to cast early, further delaying ascension.
Is melee Ascendant not viable? Are there other weapons and weapon styles you would recommend for this sub class? How could I make one-handed melee Ascendant work?

2. Some enemies have a high will defense. That's why I picked Club Weapon Proficiency. But sometimes putting my Cipher in melee range is very risky. Because of that I chose Tenuous Grasp as first level ability. But it seems rather useless to use it to lower Will because it targets Will in the first place. When I would need to use it to lower Will, I often fail to apply it. Does this get better as the game progresses? Do you use Tenuous Grasp at all? This ability would have been way more helpful if it targeted another defense.

3. What are your recommended 1st level spells? I just picked Tenuous Grasp and Eyestrike so far. I replaced Whisper of Treason with Puppet Master. Are other 1st level spells worth it at all? Low level damaging spells probably have a better focus per damage ratio, but as Ascendant this should not really matter, given that you are able to ascend early into the fight.

4. For a melee Cipher that wants to start using abilities as soon into the fight as possible, would you recommend another sub class? I want to stay single class for now, because I want to reach higher power levels earlier into the game.

5. I am not a fan of min-maxing so I chose the following attributes: MIG 14, CON 10, DEX 14, PER 14, INT 16, RES 10. Do you think that's okay? Sometimes I feel I am a little bit squishy with only 10 CON/RES, but I played a Paladin in the first game, so I am probably a little spoiled.

6. Are firearms and crossbows viable to use apart from the opening shot? The reload time is atrocious and really off-putting in my opinion, which is one reason I chose swords for my Cipher. But most Cipher players picked Two-Weapon Style and guns, so I am certainly missing something.

7. What's your strategy will skill point allocation? Are you spreading the points across the characters or are you focussing on a certain skill with each party member. My strategy for mechanics for example has been to give each character 2 points for the party assist bonus (because of the diminishing return later on) but focus on mechanics on my main. Is this viable or are there better strategies?

8. Skills like Alchemy and Arcana seem to be useful for any character. But I have the feeling that choosing those would leave too few points for other skills. Are there skills that you would pick anyway with each character? And how many points would you put into them? Alchemy seems to be universally useful to me, because unlike scrolls, potions of all levels are usable to any character, no matter their Alchemy skill. Alchemy just would make them more powerful. On the other hand, because all potions are usable no matter the skill, this could be an argument against going for Alchemy at all. What do you recommend?

That is all I think. Thank you so much for your time

PS: What about Trickster? Do you think it would fit the playstyle I described better?

 

[fruitsalad]

I forgot something: the way concentration and interrupts work changed with PoE2. It seems concentration is a buff you need to have stacks of in order to not be interrupted. Is there any way during combat to see how much concentration you have?

[thelee]

4 hours ago, fruitsalad said:

My MC is a human SC Cipher Ascendant with One-Handed Style. I planned on concentrating on melee (apart from an opening shot from my pistol), but it seems to be very hard to get enough focus to ascend with my attacks.

one-handed style is very niche in deadfire compared to poe1. and that niche is not focus generation, you are tanking your focus generation unfortunately (for more info on the niche, i wrote it up in one of the sidebars here: https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/pc/227477-pillars-of-eternity-ii-deadfire/faqs/76599/weapon-styles). two weapon style is overall best for dps/focus, two-handed style is also good and has other advantages (quarterstaff and pike give you reach like in poe1 so you have good dps/focus while being relatively safe like a ranged attacker if you have a good tank to body block).

 

4 hours ago, fruitsalad said:

But sometimes putting my Cipher in melee range is very risky. Because of that I chose Tenuous Grasp as first level ability. But it seems rather useless to use it to lower Will because it targets Will in the first place. When I would need to use it to lower Will, I often fail to apply it. Does this get better as the game progresses? Do you use Tenuous Grasp at all? This ability would have been way more helpful if it targeted another defense.

with party support a club will work best. also, the cipher doesn't need to use a club, you can have someone more melee-capable use a club to keep enemy will low. ciphers will actualy suffer with club because of the -25% damage penalty from the modal. eventually you get a high-level passive that you can take that gives you bonus to accuracy vs will which will help. edit: same thing goes with morningstar modal. put it on a front-line tank, hit an enemy with it, and suddenly you have a juicy target for a cipher disintegrate.

 

4 hours ago, fruitsalad said:

Low level damaging spells probably have a better focus per damage ratio, but as Ascendant this should not really matter, given that you are able to ascend early into the fight.

IMO the tier 1 beam spell is always good although the targeting can be a bit challenging.

 

4 hours ago, fruitsalad said:

4. For a melee Cipher that wants to start using abilities as soon into the fight as possible, would you recommend another sub class? I want to stay single class for now, because I want to reach higher power levels earlier into the game.

ascendant is not really meant for front-loading powers, since you have to build it up. there are other ways to super charge focus generation for an ascendant (there's a unique blunderbuss that can be enchanted with a once/encounter massive push back attack that will top you off with focus almost assuredly). aside from psion, the other ciphers will do overall better with front-loading attacks, and the beguiler can generate tons of focus real fast with the right powers.

 

4 hours ago, fruitsalad said:

5. I am not a fan of min-maxing so I chose the following attributes: MIG 14, CON 10, DEX 14, PER 14, INT 16, RES 10. Do you think that's okay? Sometimes I feel I am a little bit squishy with only 10 CON/RES, but I played a Paladin in the first game, so I am probably a little spoiled.

i think those are decent stats. unfortunately a cipher on hard/potd is just going to be squishy for a melee-er, you don't have survivability-boosting abilities/passives compared to martials and heavy armor is really taxing on your ability to use powers; so additional con/res may help a bit but won't help the big picture that much. eventually by mid/mid-late game with more powers, the ability to pick up Tough, and the slowdown of the AR vs PEN arms race on hard/potd will make things easier. in the meantime, rely on your party to support you.

 

4 hours ago, fruitsalad said:

6. Are firearms and crossbows viable to use apart from the opening shot? The reload time is atrocious and really off-putting in my opinion, which is one reason I chose swords for my Cipher. But most Cipher players picked Two-Weapon Style and guns, so I am certainly missing something.

firearms are great. their #1 feature is that while reloading, you can do switch to doin anything else, like quaffing a potion, using a power, etc. one-handed pistol with modal is also a super way to do firearms w/ basically minimal reload time (the math works out heavily in your favor doing one-hand pistol with modal that it doesn't with any other weapon). crossbows/arbalests are similar, but they especially come with utility for interruptions, which is more important than any damage they can do.

there are also some frankly stupidly good unique firearms. there's a pistol that can do raw damage and be enchanted to do even more damage on top. there are two blunderbusses that instead of firing 4 bullets, fire one bullet that explodes (also decent for focus generation). there's an arquebus that lets you fire twice before reloading--basically eliminating the slow reload tax.

 

4 hours ago, fruitsalad said:

7. What's your strategy will skill point allocation? Are you spreading the points across the characters or are you focussing on a certain skill with each party member. My strategy for mechanics for example has been to give each character 2 points for the party assist bonus (because of the diminishing return later on) but focus on mechanics on my main. Is this viable or are there better strategies?

that's kinda what i do. i give each character a main skill to focus on, maybe two tops. the diminishing returns on party assist are pretty nasty. more important for watcher to focus because there are lots of checks that are watcher-only, but that's the general idea.

 

4 hours ago, fruitsalad said:

8. Skills like Alchemy and Arcana seem to be useful for any character. But I have the feeling that choosing those would leave too few points for other skills. Are there skills that you would pick anyway with each character? And how many points would you put into them? Alchemy seems to be universally useful to me, because unlike scrolls, potions of all levels are usable to any character, no matter their Alchemy skill. Alchemy just would make them more powerful. On the other hand, because all potions are usable no matter the skill, this could be an argument against going for Alchemy at all. What do you recommend?

the main argument for not giving everyone these skills is that IME keeping your characters stocked with enough potions and scrolls is expensive. eventually by late game you'll be overflowing with high-powered scrolls (through forgotten sanctum dlc) but good potions will always be hard to keep up. I max out at two characters investing in those skills at a time. similar with explosives, though explosives are honstly easier to keep stocked up (most explosives recipes give you more than one bomb/craft, and even really basic ones are good).

in terms of potions being usable by all, the best benefit from alchemy to me is making even lesser health potions extremely useful. combat is slower than in poe1 so drug durations won't get too high relative to fights, but high alchemy is needed if you want to do more than one fight (+ some exploration) with the effects of a drug.  edit: also if you are interested in poisons maxing out alchemy is basically mandatory for them to be usable at all on hard/potd. on potd you also need additional help from items and miscellaneous general buffs (like a source of aware to get graze->hit or independent accuracy bonuses not tied to perception).

athletics is also good for a lot of characters. it falls off quickly, but even with the fall off it's very useful heal. i have a fighter mainchar right now that is maxxing athletics (for an item that gives you -% recovery based on athletics), and at level 12 i can heal ~200 health with athletics (at fast speed with no recovery). for mercenaries i might need i tend to pick up laborer as a background since that's +2 athletics off the bat, and that's basically a free, no-recovery potion every encounter.

 

56 minutes ago, fruitsalad said:

I forgot something: the way concentration and interrupts work changed with PoE2. It seems concentration is a buff you need to have stacks of in order to not be interrupted. Is there any way during combat to see how much concentration you have?

if you hover over your character, there's a tooltip to the top left of hte screen by default. There should be a number next to a "Concentration" label near the top of that tooltip that will have a number if you have more than one layer of concentration. Plus I think there's "Concentration" next to whatever effect is granting it in the list of active effects. edit: there's also a visual indicaiton in the above-your-head combat short tooltips - the circle that shows your current action will be glowing if you have any concentration. very important for at-a-glance info on whether that enemy caster is interruptible.

Edited November 29, 2023 by thelee

[Constentin Lévine]

I'm agree for the squishy aspect of SC cipher, at less until you get some reliable stuff or party-assist abilities. So, quaterstaff as two handed weapon (modal +25 deflection at melee, long range) or dagger as one handed (modal +25 deflection at melee, +other weapon slot ) can be more efficient than a shield vs melee attacks. 

The cipher' subclasses are really well designed imo to concord with differents playstyles, and at melee the SoulBlade subclass take care of the Concentration problem when you constantly alternate between melee attack and spellcast : You gain Concentration on melee weapon kill (and max focus).

Weapon's abilities like the per rest spells attached to the Amira's Wing rod or the Thunderous Report on the Kitchen Stove blunderbusse, generate focus and can be basically considered as an interruptor button to be ascended. Once, switching to another weapon slot more relevant for the situation (shield, dagger, whatever else) is nice since when ascended, spamming spells for free is more interresting than attacking with weapons.

Edited November 30, 2023 by Constentin Lévine

[Boeroer]

There is one single weapon setup for a Cipher that I like - and that is single pistol + modal (rushed reload). This combination has only -3 ACC (and increased crit conversion with the one-handed style talent) but an incredible increase in shooting speed which is faster than dual wielding pistols would be (even with the two weapon style talent) . It stacks well with Time Parasite later on, too. On top of that you always have the option to switch off the modal and instantly gain 15 accuracy should you struggle to hit your enemies. 

I personally really like to use Eccea's Arcane Blaster as my primary pistol then. Its the best pistol imo because of the combination of raw and elemental damage (with its special modal) which takes away all concerns regarding pierce immune or -resistant foes.  

Once Shared Nightmare is available I like to use Fire in the Hole with Chain Shot as an alternative weapon because its AoE size scales with focus then - combined with high INT you can reach absurd AoE size for the mortar blast which gives a lot of focus if there are enough enemies around. 

Shared Nightmare also works with Kitchen Stove's "Thunderous Report" which should provide instant ascension after use if you can manage to hit enough enemies with the cone.

Of course then it's not a melee ascendant anymore...

Single handed melee weapons that could work with a cipher (and not be totally subpar) include all weapons that can proc a damaging effect on hit or on crit: usually those effects count as weapon damage and will generate focus.
Something like Sungrazer's enchantments (fiery meteor strike on crit-kill) or Grave Calling's Chilling Grave (a Chillfog that generates focus when it hits enemies). With one-handed apporach and style you can make sure to crit more which would help to proc those effects more often which in turn generate more focus.
This isn't super reliable - but it helps generating focus nonetheless.

Another option can be to use Xoti's Sickle and scale the Religion skill as much as possible. The sickle will gain up to +60% damage bonus (like a fully leveled SC Rogue's Sneak Attack) after killing a few enemies - and it doesn't matter how you kill those enemies (for example with Cipher spells).
But the damage bonus only applies to the sickle itself, so single-wielding it isn't a bad idea (or use it with a shield). That way you can start combat with something strong in order to ascend asap (see mortar shot or thunderous report), then switch to sickle and kill lots of enemies with cipher spells while ascended - and then clear up the rest with the buffed-up sickle which will have great dps from the kills.   

Yet another option is to use the Magistrate's Cudgel for obvious reasons. It's good with crits (see enchantment route for cipher) and you'll get more crits with single weapon + one handed style. 

Still... my first recommendation for single weapon + cipher would be pistol.  

 

Edited November 30, 2023 by Boeroer

[fruitsalad]

Thanks for all your helpful replies. Also @thelee for your helpful guide. I read a few sections from it that came up when googling stuff even before you mentioned it. Should be stickied or something in my opinion.

I just tried using a one-handed style, a pistol with the modal active and it awesome. I am shooting almost twice as fast as Eder is swinging his saber. Given that the enemy is not pierce resistant. I probably will give Eder mace proficiency for the modal to help with that. Or have Pallegina cast that level 1 chanter ability that reduces armor. With how penetration and armor rating works it seems to be quite a useful spell. I just hope that I will get the gun @Boeroer mentioned not too late into the game.

What do you think about a Soul Blade as single class Cipher, should that focussing on a melee approach is more appealing to me?

I also thought about going with with a Chanter/Troubadour single class just to have another character being able to tank or use summons to protect the backline a bit. Just relying on Eder for that feels uncomfortable. What do you think about a SC Troubadour with the attributes MIG 14, CON 10, DEX 10, PER 14, INT 16, RES 14? Using a medium shield when tanking and perhaps an Estoc against weaker enemies. I really like the idea of combining the Estoc modal with the -2AR spell chanters to handle heavily armoed enemies. And I could also summon mobs as distraction/cannon fodder, although I'd prefer to focus on damaging spells and buffs.

What I forgot to ask about: How important is CON? In PoE1 I played a paladin with 10 CON and because my high defenses it worked fine. I rarely took damage so fast that I could not just heal it. For an off-tank/support chanter, do you think that 10 CON and 14 RES would be fine?
Do different classes have different health and defense base stats or is it all the same for everybody, apart from class specific skills that aid survivability?

Thank's again you all

[thelee]

56 minutes ago, fruitsalad said:

What do you think about a Soul Blade as single class Cipher, should that focussing on a melee approach is more appealing to me?

i'll let others w/ more experience w/ soul blade comment on it, but cheap shred is good, and there is some insane cheese you can do with the soul blade's ability, if that's your thing.

56 minutes ago, fruitsalad said:

I also thought about going with with a Chanter/Troubadour single class just to have another character being able to tank or use summons to protect the backline a bit. Just relying on Eder for that feels uncomfortable. What do you think about a SC Troubadour with the attributes MIG 14, CON 10, DEX 10, PER 14, INT 16, RES 14? Using a medium shield when tanking and perhaps an Estoc against weaker enemies. I really like the idea of combining the Estoc modal with the -2AR spell chanters to handle heavily armoed enemies. And I could also summon mobs as distraction/cannon fodder, although I'd prefer to focus on damaging spells and buffs.

chanter/troubadour is always aces. i would personally suggest you lean more towards int and con than might in such a build. might is less important for a tank, and getting longer linger/larger chant and more survivability would be helpful if you're going to be on the front line.

if you're not into summons, i suggest giving tekahu a whirl as a pure, single-classed chanter. i've geared him up like a tank, with heavy armor, a high-quality small shield and a hatchet to start (until better defensive gear and chants), and also make sure to pick up chants like ancestor's memory for heal or her courage thick as her shield and especially silver knight (for bonus deflection and engagement). chanters start off a little squishy before you lay on all the defensive chants, but overall it worked out very well as a secondary tank, and tekehu's unique invocations can be very good (chain lightning is great when it unlocks, so is tornado, and tekehu has unparalleled chanter cheese capabilities with avenging storm + sasha's singing scimitar). you lose summons but it sounds like you don't want those as much. (edit: another consideration is that tekehu gets so many invocations for free that you can spend your ability points on tons of passives that aid survivability or general utility. in fact with tekehu i typically don't really pick up any invocations explicitly except for maybe the resurrection or the tier 9 class resource restoration one.)

 

56 minutes ago, fruitsalad said:

What I forgot to ask about: How important is CON? In PoE1 I played a paladin with 10 CON and because my high defenses it worked fine. I rarely took damage so fast that I could not just heal it. For an off-tank/support chanter, do you think that 10 CON and 14 RES would be fine?

not that important IMO. not worth dumping it, but also not worth investing heavily into. i think konstanten is underpowered as a companion because he puts so many of his stat points into constitution. a properly built party with careful enemy management can skate by even with a front-line with minimal constitution investment (my aforementioned fighter only has 12, investing mostly in might, my other frontline in this run is ydwin who has 10). i also always pick up tough for virtually every character (incl ones i've dropped their con below 10), and IMO that's a way better bang for your buck than investing in con with your precious stat points.

res you have to be a little careful. it can be very insignificant but it can also be very good. for a tank i would consider strongly finding a way to get to 19 or 20 that still leaves you happy w/out too much compromise on the other stats. but you have to back that up with a shield as well as weapon+shield style. you get increasing returns from resolve/deflection and it'll all pay off. (but it can feel rough on esp PotD early game some enemies just have such stupid accuracy that it doesn't always feel like a good trade-off, but it eventually works out). an underrated side benefit is the reduced harmful effect duration from res (a new aspect compared to poe1). another reason you get increasing returns here. at 20 res, debuff durations are down -30% which, thanks to complicated inversion math in deadfire, can be much more powerful than you think, able to cancel out up to +43%'s worth of duration boosts from the enemy (mostly intellect). and it keeps getting better the more resolve you add on. basically a high-resolve tank can shrug off attacks and debuffs really easily. in my current run i have a merc that only has 6 resolve, and compared to my higher-resolve fighter it can be a massive difference in debuff duration sometimes.

 

56 minutes ago, fruitsalad said:

Do different classes have different health and defense base stats or is it all the same for everybody, apart from class specific skills that aid survivability?

not as different as in poe1, but there are still differences: https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/pc/227477-pillars-of-eternity-ii-deadfire/faqs/76599/classes-single-classing-focus. the most notable one is fighter, who gets a +5 deflection bonus, which makes them already pretty tank-appropriate, and any fighter multiclass will get only part of that deflection bonus (i forget if it rounds up or down). on the other side barbarians get -5  pretty punishing combination with frenzy

Edited November 30, 2023 by thelee

[Boeroer]

1 hour ago, fruitsalad said:

With how penetration and armor rating works it seems to be quite a useful spell.

Penetration vs. armor is one of the most important mechanics in combat. You are right that everything that either raises your PEN and/or lowers enemies' armor ist quite useful. Very useful I'd say.  Cipher's "Driving Echoes" is a very valuable penetration buff, one shouldn't sleep on it - even if the Cipher himself cannot profit from it.

1 hour ago, fruitsalad said:

I just hope that I will get the gun @Boeroer mentioned not too late into the game.

I would just make a beeline for it. It's loot from an isolated island and the local "quest" has no ties to anything else. And the fight to get it isn't that difficult (esp. if you keep the fight to the one enemy that carries the pistol which is easy to do). Then come back later to finish the "quest". It's rel. easy to get the pistol early that way. But of course it's kind of spoiling the exploration aspect of the first playtrough to look up where you can get it and all that.

1 hour ago, fruitsalad said:

What do you think about a Soul Blade as single class Cipher, should that focussing on a melee approach is more appealing to me?

  I think a Soulblade is almost always better as a multiclass character (if not deliberately build to suck). The main feature of the Soulblade (Soul Annihilation) profits so much from a lot of other classes' abilities - and not so much from the Power Levels 8 & 9 of the Cipher single class.

I think good candidates for SC Cipher are Beguiler and also Psion. Both are not really about melee combat (Beguiler could be, but since a Beguiler can generate much more focus with casting Deception spells than usng a melee weapon most of times one tends to deviate from melee combat quickly in my experience).

Some very good and also fun to play melee ciphers are (to me): Soulblade/Trickster, Soulblade/Shattered Pillar (Community Patch version) and Soulblade/Bloodmage. I guess Soulblade/Barbarian could be nice due to the combination of Blood Thirst with Soul Annihilation. I heard that Soulblade/Stalker is also good. 

I could maybe see a melee SC Cipher with Whispers of the Endless Paths as main weapon, given that Shared Nightmare would enlarge the cone of the weapon a lot. But I don't know if that's worth it tbh. 

 

 

Edited November 30, 2023 by Boeroer

[thelee]

you know i just realized after writing my last post that i do have some more directly relevant pointers here, because i actually am using ydwin as a front-line character as a pure sc cipher.

some things that i've been doing with ydwin to ensure success: (not saying you have to do all these, but these are how i've been thinking about it and maybe give you your own inspiration)

• immediately picked up spear proficiency and spent money on fine and eventually exceptional spear for main hand, for the engagement so ydwin can actually control enemy foes.
  • eventually i got the club that grants bonus engagement, so i've been using that instead of a spear, though eventually i'll swap back to a spear that has the enchantment to get occasionally free recovery attacks.
  • magical spears are pretty uncommon so it's a weapon type you just have to shell out for. and it's important to shell out because you have no way to penetration-boosting modal. so you need those enchantments to boost PEN (on top of the other normal benefits of magical weapons)
• i started off keeping ydwin equipped with medium armor, dual-wielding. i gave her items that would boost resolve or deflection. eventually i get fleshmender (superb light armor that has bonus to AR and health regen that goes away if hit). as usual i pick up tough (early on i also use an amulet to boost health instead)
• i use ydwin primarily as an alchemy character, with a tiny amount of athletics. action economy is very tight for melee cipher, esp with medium armor's penalties, but alchemy lets me load up beforehand with drugs (coral snuff, deadeye, and ripple sponge are my favorites), and at the start of fights, while stealthed, i quaff a helpful potion or something (like merciless gaze or deftness). i also almost always rest with Grog for her (and i have the drunkard's regret ring which eliminates hangover effects... more relevant for me bc i'm also using rymyrgand's challenge so it's frequently a waste of money to rest multiple times just to clear hangovers). also, making lesser health potions very effective is good.
• a bit controversially, i picked up the soul whip upgrade that increases weapon damage, not focus gain. just to try something different. in practice there's not many focus powers i want to use, because i also picked up the two beam powers, and you can't double up on each of the beam powers anyway.
• party support comes from pallegina with lay on hands and my merc, whose build i'll probably post here eventually b.c. it's played out very interestingly. merc is a warden (blackjacket/druid) who has out of the fire, which i use if ydwin is getting overwhelmed.

overall i think it's pretty good and last time i checked ydwin was also party damage leader. those beam spells are really good. especially if you have a neat line of enemies and you empower a beam. outputs tons of damage.

Edited November 30, 2023 by thelee

[mjo2138]

On 11/30/2023 at 12:27 PM, thelee said:

mmediately picked up spear proficiency and spent money on fine and eventually exceptional spear for main hand, for the engagement so ydwin can actually control enemy foes.

• eventually i got the club that grants bonus engagement, so i've been using that instead of a spear, though eventually i'll swap back to a spear that has the enchantment to get occasionally free recovery

 

Mid and late game, which weapons do you have ydwin using: Stalker's Patience and Shattered Vengeance? I run it with Frostseeker and then weapon set 2 is Kitchen Stove. I might try a 1 handed pistol too. I should also try something different like this , but I tend to run the same every time for most characters, which I wanna stop doing 

[yorname]

On 11/30/2023 at 10:39 PM, Boeroer said:

There is one single weapon setup for a Cipher that I like - and that is single pistol + modal (rushed reload). This combination has only -3 ACC (and increased crit conversion with the one-handed style talent) but an incredible increase in shooting speed which is faster than dual wielding pistols would be (even with the two weapon style talent) . It stacks well with Time Parasite later on, too. On top of that you always have the option to switch off the modal and instantly gain 15 accuracy should you struggle to hit your enemies. 

I personally really like to use Eccea's Arcane Blaster as my primary pistol then. Its the best pistol imo because of the combination of raw and elemental damage (with its special modal) which takes away all concerns regarding pierce immune or -resistant foes.

 

I've always been using melee+scordio to get the most out of the stacking -5% recovery buff, but never thought of one-handed style for I don't know why. Now that you mentioned it I realized it's better in almost every way. Two-weapon + modal is impractical anyway unless playing something like ranger/cipher

[yorname]

SC ascendant is one of those classes that I avoid playing again because of how ridiculous it is. In 90% cases Thunderous Report - Time Parasite - spam Amplified Wave and the map is clear before the first ascension is over. Even without Thunderous Report, there are more AOE ranged weapons than melee ones so you'll have a harder time building focus with melee weapons

[fruitsalad]

So far the single pistol with One-handed Style and the activated modal is working pretty good, if the enemy is not pierce resistant. I will not rush it to get that arcane gun, but instead be all the more happy should I finally stumbe upon it. Too bad One-handed Style is not viable in many cases. I can imagine that a small recovery time bonus added to this ability would have been nice. Or something like a action time bonus if you use other things like grenades, potions or scrolls because you have a free hand to reach for them.

I wonder how much more damage one would deal with Two-Weapon Style and two Swords as opposed to One-handed Style and a sword on average. Did anybody of you ever calculate that roughly?

[dgray62]

On 11/30/2023 at 9:11 AM, Boeroer said:

Some very good and also fun to play melee ciphers are (to me): Soulblade/Trickster, Soulblade/Shattered Pillar (Community Patch version) and Soulblade/Bloodmage. I guess Soulblade/Barbarian could be nice due to the combination of Blood Thirst with Soul Annihilation. I heard that Soulblade/Stalker is also good. 

Soulblade/forbidden fist is also extremely powerful combo and very fun to play. It is one of my favorite melee MC combos. Very tanky with high RES and capable of devastating attack combos. With max RES you can pretty much alternate the forbidden fist and soul annihilation attacks, and take out most foes in a few hits.

[thelee]

4 hours ago, fruitsalad said:

I wonder how much more damage one would deal with Two-Weapon Style and two Swords as opposed to One-handed Style and a sword on average. Did anybody of you ever calculate that roughly?

it's a very steep difference, unfortunately. it's been a while so i don't know where my notes are, but i think it's something like a ~30% net damage difference (net, so multiplicative). not as high as the maxed-out speed bonus from two weapon style would suggest because bonus accuracy and the ability to crit from one-handed style does count for something, especially against high-armor enemies, but it's still pretty significant downgrade to go to 1h style.

one-handed style would be better (if still niche) if you use weapons that don't get +penetration modals (like club, flail, etc.) because when you're underpenetrating that chance to crit and bonus accuracy can be huuuge in overwhelming enemy armor when you're down by even just -1 (-25% damage).

[thelee]

On 12/3/2023 at 10:15 AM, mjo2138 said:

Mid and late game, which weapons do you have ydwin using: Stalker's Patience and Shattered Vengeance?

mid-game: Kapana Taga and St Drogga's Skull (I play almost 100% of the time with Skaen's challenge so illumination is very important)

i have a second weapon set that is Endre's Flog of Obedience (a flail to penalize reflex can be great with a beam spell, though increasingly i rely on my merc to debuff reflex) with a simple torch (torches count as a club so despite the DPS hit, it's still blunt damage and it can still debuff will). Kapana Taga has low penetration, so a backup is helpful. This second weapon set was/is more important when i have a spear equipped (due to common pierce immunity).

late-game plan: Stalker's Patience and St Drogga's Skull. I probably will sub in Shattered Vengeance for megabosses, that damage debuff is so good for long fights.

Edited December 5, 2023 by thelee

[Boeroer]

16 hours ago, dgray62 said:

Soulblade/forbidden fist is also extremely powerful combo and very fun to play. It is one of my favorite melee MC combos. Very tanky with high RES and capable of devastating attack combos. With max RES you can pretty much alternate the forbidden fist and soul annihilation attacks, and take out most foes in a few hits.

Alternating Forbidden Fist and Soul Annihilation only works with the Community Patch (mod) though. Without it the Forbidden Fist attack will not generate any focus unfortunately. With the CP you'll have indeed two very good individual attack options - and on top of their overall quality they both are fueled by refreshing resources which is aweseome, too. 

 

[fruitsalad]

5 hours ago, Boeroer said:

...and on top of their overall quality they both are fueled by refreshing resources which is aweseome, too.

That's exactly the reason why I thought about giving a Shattered Pillar/Ascendant MC a go, because the way both class resources are working is similar. Perhaps I will try the first island like that and see whether I like it. I don't have much experience with multiclasses but this combination at a first glance sounds pretty good to me.

[Boeroer]

16 hours ago, fruitsalad said:

That's exactly the reason why I thought about giving a Shattered Pillar/Ascendant MC a go, because the way both class resources are working is similar. Perhaps I will try the first island like that and see whether I like it. I don't have much experience with multiclasses but this combination at a first glance sounds pretty good to me.

Yes, I played a Shattered Pillar/Soulblade with Whispers of the Endless Paths (and Offensive Parry). I used the Community Patch here as well because the Shattered Pillar got nerfed too badly in the vanilla game (only generates wounds with auto-attacks AND the max wound count is limited to 5 instead of 10). Community Patch brings the max wound count back to 10 - and that's much more balanced with the other monk subclasses. 

It's cool to charge both wounds and focus with the same attacks. In my case it was also cool that Offensive Parry generates both focus and wounds, too. And Soul Annihilation works well with the cone of WotEP (which profits from the huge INT increase of Turning Wheel).  

Edited December 6, 2023 by Boeroer

[dgray62]

Transcendents with Soulblade are great overall, and are particularly great with SP or FF subclasses if you're using Community Patch.

Edited December 6, 2023 by dgray62
typo correction