Pathfinder Wrath of the Righteous, Part 6

[bugarup]

...I never knew there's a hidden dimension door boss in Colyphyr mines, granted I usually try to **** off outta there ASAP. Welp now I will have to find it in following playthroughs, because all stat books must be MINE!  Also, why shortbow and not longbow for Zen Lann? 

[Gromnir]

3 hours ago, bugarup said:

...I never knew there's a hidden dimension door boss in Colyphyr mines, granted I usually try to **** off outta there ASAP. Welp now I will have to find it in following playthroughs, because all stat books must be MINE!  Also, why shortbow and not longbow for Zen Lann? 

https://pathfinderwrathoftherighteous.wiki.fextralife.com/Ki+Arrows

at fifth level and beyond, with a shortbow a zen archer is doing monk unarmed damage. (edit: can't link even though we added the ki arrows info moments ago.)

At 1st level, a monk gains Improved Unarmed Strike as a bonus feat. The damage dealt by a Medium monk's unarmed strike increases with level: 1d6 at levels 1-3, 1d8 at levels 4-7,1d10 at levels 8-11, 2d6 at levels 12-15, 2d8 at levels 16-19, and 2d10 at level 20. If the monk is Small, his unarmed strike damage increases as follows: 1d4 at levels 1-3, 1d6 at levels 4-7, 1d8 at levels 8-11,1d10 at levels 12-15, 2d6 at levels 16-19, and 2d8 at level 20.
If the monk is Large, his unarmed strike damage increases as follows: 1d8 at levels 1-3, 2d6 at levels 4-7, 2d8 at levels 8-11, 3d6 at levels 12-15, 3d8 at levels 16-19, and 4d8 at level 20.

'course as a zen archer you use wisdom as your attack bonus modifier, so chances are you is always gonna be enlarged and then legendary proportions for later game. take a few points o' umd and have hurricane bow scrolls on hand for major battles. 

HA! Good Fun!

 

Edited January 4, 2023 by Gromnir

[Gorth]

Continuation of old thread

https://forums.obsidian.net/topic/129510-pathfinder-wrath-of-the-righteous-part-5/

 

[xzar_monty]

I don't know what the general consensus is, but I'd argue that after you return from the  Abyss, having to do another bout of fighting on the streets of Drezen is not fun, nor is it a good design choice.

Edited January 10, 2023 by xzar_monty

[Gromnir]

11 minutes ago, xzar_monty said:

I don't know what the general consensus is, but I'd argue that after you return from the  Abyss, having to do another bout of fighting on the streets of Drezen is not fun, nor is it a good design choice.

the post abyss street fight in drezen is not part o' the pnp ap, so the design choice is square on owlcat. 

am agreeing the material does feel clunky, but am gonna note the drezen encounters is mythic heavy which likely explains why the street fight(s) were added. for example, previous to the convo with the inheritor, you meet halaseliax, which is kinda your last step on the gold dragon path. does the encounter seem forced? yeah, but again, is the tacked on owlcat specific mythic content which were not easily integrated into act iv.

is not ideal to functional shoehorn mythic content in quick before the iomedae encounter, but woulda' been tough to work in the material seamless and unavoidable in the abyss.  

HA! Good Fun!

[xzar_monty]

Are you trying to be my Ralph McTell, taking me through the streets of Drezen, showing me something to make me change my mind?

[Gromnir]

27 minutes ago, xzar_monty said:

Are you trying to be my Ralph McTell, taking me through the streets of Drezen, showing me something to make me change my mind?

*chuckle*

is no reason to change your mind. the post abyss drezen material is brief and clunky.

however, having knowledge o' the pnp ap as well as having played the game multiple times and choosing different mythic paths, am seeing a practical explanation for the added curiously tacked on post abyss content. 'course practicality does not obviate the lack o' deftness displayed.

HA! Good Fun!

[xzar_monty]

Interesting difficulty curves in the game, btw, possibly because I am certainly not a master of the mechanics.

Very early on, on Core, things can be quite difficult. This is natural enough, as one Crit can easily kill, so there's not much room for error (or bad luck). But then, after a few levels, things settle down quite a bit and things get reasonably comfortable. However, once you get into the Abyss, things become quite difficult again, because many of the encounters have been designed in a rather cruel way. (Right before the Abyss, that one guy Playful Darkness is very difficult indeed and too much for me on Core.) But then, again, after the Abyss, things settle down and become easier once again, because of all the mythic powers and what have you. The main exception to this, for me, has been the big Devil guy that I couldn't deal with on Core -- with his forbidding AC and impressive saves, I thought he was one that justified turning down the difficult, again.

There's way too much combat in the game, by the way. I would cut about 50% of it, perhaps even more.

I understand Nenio's personal quest isn't pleasant, but I haven't got close to finishing it yet. I've got two or three masks and I've done a couple of puzzles (that are awful), but that's it.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

Trickster playthrough is finished. Like the Azata, it definitely feels like it fizzled out in act 5, but even the act 4 quest felt lacking for Trickster. Also like Azata, the regular ending was more enjoyable for me than the sekrit ending. There is a lot of missed opportunity, and I think going more into fey stuff would have been a welcome change than being an errand boy or girl for a perverted man mad that his ex left him. Still a fun path though.

let's see if the software works now

[Gromnir]

8 hours ago, xzar_monty said:

Interesting difficulty curves in the game, btw, possibly because I am certainly not a master of the mechanics.

you observe what we see as the crux o' a serious flaw with wotr design. 'cause the game difficulty appears to be tuned down from unfair, boss and sub-boss battles may be prohibitive difficult even on core. the stat bloat on unfair for demon lords, mephistopheles and the various playful darkness incarnations is assuming the player is indeed a master o' mechanics who is able to generate attack bonuses and/or spell dc in the +100 range. the improbable ac and saves for unfair difficulty bosses is not out of reach o' a master o' mechanics. in fact, the boss battles is often easier on unfair than many mob encounters as you may prepare and buff to max for boss encounters which only rare has many foes needing be accounted for at once. mob ambushes with no possibility o' party pre-buffing is the real challenge on unfair. the thing is, on hard and unfair, deskari, baphomet and playful darkness is functional identical to core versions save that ac, ab and saves is having fewer points shaved off their stats. core bosses and sub-bosses got same abilities, immunities and mechanics as unfair iterations. 

boss scale-down is lazy design and is leading to understandable frustration from the multitude o' players who are not masters o' mechanics... and keep in mind is not even a matter o' being a master o' pathfinder mechanics as owlcat has unique implementations which means you need be a master o' wotr mechanics specific. 

btw, you likely haven't actual started nenio's quest if you do not have all four masks. most o' the world map puzzle locations is specific related to a non-party npc, although the puzzle mechanics and boss is functional the same as for nenio, which in our mind is unnecessarily repetitive. enigma, once you acquire all four masks, is kinda wotr at it's worst as it forces you to deal with a whole lotta backtracking and filler combat while solving puzzles which feels all too familiar if you already did the world map puzzles only to confront a boss you already kinda-sorta faced. if you aren't doing the secret ending, then am recommending skipping the area unlocked once you have all four masks. we got completion ocd, so we had to finish enigma at least once, but enigma is kinda punishing and uninspired.

HA! Good Fun!

 

Edited January 16, 2023 by Gromnir

[Sarex]

Man I remember how much I hate ticks and swarms... Other than that doing the Midnight Islands DLC (way too much loot for selling there), still on act 3.

[Gromnir]

https://pathfinderwrathoftherighteous.wiki.fextralife.com/Bane+of+Spirit

is the easily overlooked swarm killing item. costs a free action to convert any party member damage type. can thus instantaneous alter the damage type o' multiple companions (weapon or spell) to force which is not avoided by swarm immunity to physical damage.

HA! Good Fun!

Edited January 16, 2023 by Gromnir

[xzar_monty]

2 hours ago, Sarex said:

Man I remember how much I hate ticks and swarms...

I honestly thought that after the backlash from those swarms early on in P:K, Owlcat would have decided to ditch swarms altogether. But no.

[Gorth]

16 hours ago, xzar_monty said:

Interesting difficulty curves in the game...

Who cares about difficulty curves... this game needs more of Nocticulas curves

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

2 hours ago, Gorth said:

Who cares about difficulty curves... this game needs more of Nocticulas curves

You naughty Gorthfucius

[uuuhhii]

12 hours ago, Space KP, Baby said:

Trickster playthrough is finished. Like the Azata, it definitely feels like it fizzled out in act 5, but even the act 4 quest felt lacking for Trickster. Also like Azata, the regular ending was more enjoyable for me than the sekrit ending. There is a lot of missed opportunity, and I think going more into fey stuff would have been a welcome change than being an errand boy or girl for a perverted man mad that his ex left him. Still a fun path though.

let's see if the software works now

still waiting for a more fey focused ap for 2e

so much potential

[Sarex]

I got 300k gold from doing the first part of the Midnight Isles (getting to the first big island). Hmm...

[xzar_monty]

I don't know if this is a common experience, but it seems to me that the narrative kind of unravels in Act 5 -- after the Abyss, that is. Another possibility is that I haven't been paying enough attention to the lore, which, to be frank, hasn't felt all that interesting. It's rather poorly written, I would say.

[uuuhhii]

39 minutes ago, xzar_monty said:

I don't know if this is a common experience, but it seems to me that the narrative kind of unravels in Act 5 -- after the Abyss, that is. Another possibility is that I haven't been paying enough attention to the lore, which, to be frank, hasn't felt all that interesting. It's rather poorly written, I would say.

pretty obvious run out of budget syndrome

[Gromnir]

15 hours ago, uuuhhii said:

pretty obvious run out of budget syndrome

hmmm.

act v is what happens in all too many crpgs when the writers, who didn't invest in those unifying annoyances such as theme and symbolism, need deal with chekhov's gun. is a bunch o' companion and rando npc quests and plotlines which need be resolved in act v and is absolute nothing linking them save that the commander is involved. chores. act v is a bunch o' chores. is nothing particular deep or profound going on with wotr, which is ok 'cause many players reflexive click through the dialogues o' longer crpgs regardless, but by the time you get to the last acts o' the owlcat's most recent pathfinder game there is no more big reveals and all the sub-plots, which do need be wrapped up or people would complain for that fail, do little to add to the overall narrative. 

am not thinking is budget per se. the wotr writing is somewhat limited by the scope o' the pnp  adventure, which weren't particular deep... and give credit where is due, owlcat actual tried to add humanity into their narrative by adding the mommy issues for areelu. the thing is, the owlcat writers is most assured not subtle and they weren't trying to break new ground with wotr. would act v have been better if 2x as many resources were devoted to the writing? *shudder* have mentioned previous how the romances and mythics is borderline over-the-top to the point we wonder if is parody... but am increasing convinced there were no parody and is nothing more than a matter o' owlcat craftsmanship is as paint-by-numbers as possible. 

the writing is not great in wotr, but is quite possible such is conscious choice by owlcat, as difficult as that might be to believe. the developer knows its audience, so we get over-the-top fare and an intentional lack o' anything which could possible confuse. annoy? yeah, but not confuse. is a whole lot happening in wotr but such is a matter o' breadth as 'posed to depth and overall am thinking it works for the intended audience. 'course the lack o' depth and the considerable breadth leads necessarily to the act v situation we see where tens o' hours is spent wrapping up unrelated and largely unsatisfying sub-plots which do nothing to bolster the overall narrative.

the writing is not great, but is not gonna keep people from buying the next owlcat release. were nothing divisive 'bout wotr writing save that it were kinda meh and am thinking owlcat is likely ok with that situation.

edit: am not making excuses for bad owlcat writing efforts. however, am self-aware enough to recognize from various sources o' wotr feedback that Gromnir is not the target audience owlcat were seeking to satisfy with their writing. good writing is hard, but owlcat knows they don't need be great. would wotr have been better if the gameplay content were sacrificed and altered so as to make for a more compelling narrative?  dunno, but am not thinking owlcat takes such risks when they got a formula which works with their audience.

HA! Good Fun!

 

Edited January 18, 2023 by Gromnir

[InsaneCommander]

 

[Sarex]

A hundred hours in and lvl13, still in act 3. Maybe I should progress the main story, but there is still so much to do.

[Gorth]

18 hours ago, InsaneCommander said:

 

Borrowing a bit from the GOG product page (no price point at the moment)

• New playable class with 6 archetype variations. Become a shifter and use animal aspects and forms to decimate your enemies with the fury of a wild beast!
• New companion for your party: a Sarkorian tribal chief who has mysteriously survived the ravaging of his homeland.
• A brand-new, previously unavailable area, which you will be able to explore with your new ally, fight new enemies, and uncover some old secrets.
• 9 new spells will aid you in battle with foes both new and old.
• Optional romance with Ulbrig, available for both male and female characters.

 

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

17 hours ago, Sarex said:

A hundred hours in and lvl13, still in act 3. Maybe I should progress the main story, but there is still so much to do.

I'd do all the red marker quests and then go on. The point of no return is 

Spoiler

Telling the Hand of the Inheritor that you know a way into the Midnight Fane, which requires you to do the Ivory Sanctum and Areelu's Lab. After that you have a few weeks for Galfrey to show up and start the attack, unless you're an Azata, in which case your dragon convinces you to launch a surprise attack (in a week).

You can keep the guy waiting around while you do other stuff.

5 hours ago, Gorth said:

New playable class with 6 archetype variations. Become a shifter and use animal aspects and forms to decimate your enemies with the fury of a wild beast!

.....

Optional romance with Ulbrig, available for both male and female characters.

So he's a Shifter does that mean....you know what never mind.

[Sarex]

1 hour ago, Space KP, Baby said:

I'd do all the red marker quests and then go on. The point of no return is 

  Hide contents

Telling the Hand of the Inheritor that you know a way into the Midnight Fane, which requires you to do the Ivory Sanctum and Areelu's Lab. After that you have a few weeks for Galfrey to show up and start the attack, unless you're an Azata, in which case your dragon convinces you to launch a surprise attack (in a week).

You can keep the guy waiting around while you do other stuff.

Good to know, I am still waiting for the first thing the guy asked for.