Swift Flurry Divine weapons

[Boeroer]

Haha! Yes! Fist try: did a short crit-chain until Red Flag grazed and got +180% dmg for the following damage roll. Awesome!

 

[Constentin Lévine]

2 hours ago, Boeroer said:

Haha! Yes! Fist try: did a short crit-chain until Red Flag grazed and got +180% dmg for the following damage roll. Awesome!

 

With an Assassin, the Red Flag chain get the +25acc bonus (proc before the main attack) on stealth! That can help to make more %damage from Gambit.

I tried some other weapons (Sanguine Greatsword, etc) with a debonnaire but without chain-succes. (only Red Flag is vs hostile target only)

[Constentin Lévine]

I edited the post : Hounding (Wicked Beast) have an hidden +10acc, and Hemorrhaging (Effort) cant crit (but the afflictions can).

I'm going, today, to try the Skald interraction (even if I am skeptical).

[dgray62]

By skald interraction, do you mean Red Flag crits giving you a 50% chance to recover a phrase?

[Constentin Lévine]

On 10/16/2022 at 2:37 PM, Boeroer said:

If anybody got the idea that Deboniare/Cipher with Mohora Tanga would be cool - because charmed enemies give the Debonaire 100% hit-to-crit conversion and DoT-only doesn't break Charmed: you can spare youself some time because I tested that and unfortunately (or fortunately if we speak from the perpective of the game which would most likely crash) Red Flag Flying doesn't get applied if the target is friendly (also doesn't work on party members and summons etc.).

So no crit-chains with a Debonaire/Cipher I'm afraid.  

Next trying Rogue with Gambit. If the mechanics work like with mortars then every crit will grand additonal Guile internally which in turn raises the dmg bonus until the bonus guile gets capped at 4 once the ability finishes. Will report... 

The solution is the great Inspiration Confused !

While confused, hostile "abilities" work on anybody, and the whole chain of Red-Flag have the  debonaire 100% crit-conversion — until a hit from Heartbeat Drumming break the chain (as active ability, SF happen after the chain), or a graze.

Here, without HbD. My game didnt crash because of a graze.

Here, HbD (Coeur Trépidant in the list) stop the chain-convertion. 

 

So, it is possible to proc a driving-flight-like chain with Mortar for example, but also a Corona of the Soul chain, a Magran's Wrath chain, a Meteoric chain etc.. at the condition to hit with the second weapon (Mohora) the charmed enemy.

Of course, these AoE in chain will kill the debonaire-monk if he is not under BDD (or Rekvu mantle for fire AoE). For Mortar, the party have to be behind the monk, the bounces always hit in the target direction. 

While confused, it is also possible to chain-crit a summon under BDD, like a many-lives skelly or a ward, with poor defenses, with a Ranger-Monk for example. Driving Flight always bounce to another target behind the first one, so like for the debonaire with Mortar, the party have to stay in retreat for the safety. With a confused Ranger-Monk (Arcane Blaster with modal, Mohora Tanga), any boss can be chain-striked.

Edited October 18, 2022 by Constentin Lévine

[Constentin Lévine]

2 hours ago, dgray62 said:

By skald interraction, do you mean Red Flag crits giving you a 50% chance to recover a phrase?

That dont work (only 1 phrase with a chain-crit).

[Boeroer]

Skalds gain +1 phrase max from one executed action (no matter how many attack rolls and crits happen during that action). So while a Skald cannot gain more than +1 phrase from SF/HBD and/or Mhohra Tanga, the chance for receiving that 1 phrase (remmeber it's only 50% of crits) is way, way higher. 

---

So, a self-contained Debonarie crit chain with Mohora Tanga is not possible I guess. For (self) Confusion you'd need a Berserker or Tactician and for Charming all sorts of enemies you'd need a Cipher or Chanter as second class. 

[Constentin Lévine]

47 minutes ago, Boeroer said:

So, a self-contained Debonarie crit chain with Mohora Tanga is not possible I guess. For (self) Confusion you'd need a Berserker or Tactician and for Charming all sorts of enemies you'd need a Cipher or Chanter as second class. 

Actually you can, without Swift Flurry but with Avenging Storm. Contrarly to Boltcatcher that proc and interrupt the 100% crit-converted chain (like HbD), Avenging Storm trigger after (like Swift Flurry). My confused debonaire just crash the game so that work correctely 

In this sense an SC druid with Entropy+Avenging Storm can also make some ravages. 

[Boeroer]

Entropy + Avenging Storm + Mohora Tanga crashes my game almost every time.

28 minutes ago, Constentin Lévine said:

Actually you can, without Swift Flurry but with Avenging Storm.

?
I meant that neither a Debonaire/Cipher can do it all by himself (because cannot confuse himself) nor can a Debonaire/Berserker or -/Tactician (cannot charm all sorts of enemies).

---

Shouldn't Mohora Tanga (offhand) + Current's Rush (main hand) on a Ranger/Monk with Driving Flight/Swift Flurry/HBD be devastating on mobs in theory? 

 

[Constentin Lévine]

27 minutes ago, Boeroer said:

I meant that neither a Debonaire/Cipher can do it all by himself (because cannot confuse himself) nor can a Debonaire/Berserker or -/Tactician (cannot charm all sorts of enemies).

Ah yes, I misunderstood, you are right. Of course there is the pet (amonita I think) that can charm enemies on hit, or the shield that confuse on crit, and charm when confusion attack also crit, but it is tedious. And the trinket, the chain of the rightful autorithy -- but per rest, and 2 weapons with dominate/charm on vessel, also per rest. so it is not good for full package persperctive.

35 minutes ago, Boeroer said:

Shouldn't Mohora Tanga (offhand) + Current's Rush (main hand) on a Ranger/Monk with Driving Flight/Swift Flurry/HBD be devastating on mobs in theory? 

That is truly devastating when the first target is under a prevent-death effect, because I suspect there is not bounce when the target is die (but I'm not sure).

I tried few days ago with my riposte build (env. 300 deflection vs disengagement) Kitchen Stove (with the 2 bounces upgrade.) and Mohora, and 5m far away the target I disengaged, an ogre have taken 40 Deep Wounds in 1s. 

[Constentin Lévine]

3 hours ago, Boeroer said:

Entropy + Avenging Storm + Mohora Tanga crashes my game almost every time.

I made some test and I think the only way to avoid the game to crash on Entropy/ Debonaire-Mohora is , and rightly because that can arrest the crit-chain when break off the charm or the entropy (damage), to wear Boltcacher or to have Heartbeat Drumming (if Monk). The hundred/thousand of damage are coming from Swift Flurry or Avenging Storm and are equivalent to a regular Ranger-Monk with high acc.

In other way, for most of the fight the Mohora wearer could be look like an SC Seraphen Cipher, where each action can mean a reset. 

Edited October 18, 2022 by Constentin Lévine

[Boeroer]

Yes, my Ranger/Monk with single-handed Mohora Tanga crashed the game way too often for my liking. 

Game even crashed with Druid/Entropy/Avenging Storm when using Boltcatchers though. Not as much, but still happened often enough so that it's not attractive anymore.

Stuff like Effort/Avenging Storm is better for playability because it causes almost no technical issues (besides making the game a little bit laggy at times, but bearable).

[Constentin Lévine]

51 minutes ago, Boeroer said:

Yes, my Ranger/Monk with single-handed Mohora Tanga crashed the game way too often for my liking. 

The mine with ranged weapon+Mohora have not yet crashed the game ( however he one-strike more enemies but dont one shot every time). Really enjoyable to play, especially with Xefa Empirical Explication + Avenging Storm.

Solo handing Mohora is good for powerful bosses 

[Okkes]

Did you test Oathsbreakers End btw? It has scales of justice ability maybe that work too.

[Constentin Lévine]

40 minutes ago, Okkes said:

Did you test Oathsbreakers End btw? It has scales of justice ability maybe that work too.

No that dont work, the Scales of Justice is not a melee attack, only a status effect. I dont know why some effects are like that (melee, ranged, AoE etc) and others are not.

I tested Oathbreaker's End for an other reason : if you import another O'sE and upgrade each weapon with Found Guilty for the first and Found Innocent for the second, you can apply 2 DoT on the enemy, and he will trigger both effect on dead. The only particular thing I found with this weapon.

 

You can try every effects with Avenging Storm : only them they are "attack" proc AS. not the pure status effects (like Storm Blade, shock damage on crit from Aldris's Captain Blade, it is only a status effect et dont proc a lightning from AS).

Edited October 18, 2022 by Constentin Lévine

[masterty66]

I had Xoti using Mohora Tanga as a Monk in my recent run and she never crashed the game.

To be honest though I never used Avenging Storm or Entropy with her so maybe that's why? She definitely got some huge crit chains and was devastating. She carried me through Forgotten Sanctum. 

[Constentin Lévine]

49 minutes ago, masterty66 said:

I had Xoti using Mohora Tanga as a Monk in my recent run and she never crashed the game.

To be honest though I never used Avenging Storm or Entropy with her so maybe that's why? She definitely got some huge crit chains and was devastating. She carried me through Forgotten Sanctum. 

Not avenging storm to blame, but the high acc/crit conversion that make the chain to an infinite loop.. Entropy or Debonaire can cause an endless crit-chain too, but because of Boltcatcher / HbD that deal damage in the same time that the Red Flag Flying proc, their 100%crit convertion fade. Avenging Storm & Swift Flurry proc after, so they dont stop the chain. 

So in most of the case the game crash, it is because there is +100 acc vs enemy fortitude with every rolls, or +50 but with entropy (or debonaire) 100%hit to crit. If there is only +99 (or +49 in the second case) then the chain have a chance to find a way to end, and the game to not crash. 

Edit : I realize that Entropy and Debonaire are basically a +50acc on hit 

Edited October 18, 2022 by Constentin Lévine

[Boeroer]

When I am fighting enemies with low Fortitude (I had two fortitude debuffers in the party) and have very high ACC (Ranger passives + Marked Prey + Endurning Dance + one-handed Mohora Tanga) then there comes a point where my ACC is 100 points higher than that of the enemy. At that point Mohora Tanga enters an infinite loop and the game immediately closes down without any further notice. Just *snap* it's gone.

This can also happen if the difference between fortitude and accuracy isn't that enormous. Sometimes I just get lucky (or unlucky, depends how you look at it) and the first rolls are all crits. After a certain number (no idea how many) the game also decides to shut down. *pouf*

I guess there's some variable overflow which isn't catched by the game. Usually you would program components in a way that such things get catched - and then the cause (here: recursion without break) would get canceled before it has the chance to crash the whole program. 

I suspect Xoti's accuracy wasn't high enough and/or enemies' fortitude wasn't low enough - and maybe it also depends on the system Deadfire is running on. I feel like my Deadfire installation tends to crash pretty quickly with such things.

Edited October 19, 2022 by Boeroer

[Constentin Lévine]

Other nice synergy : a soul-blade should be able to spam Soul Annihilation with full focus.

The swift flurry attack can give back the focus for an amount largely sup to the enemy health, and because of the lash + the new +10 focus max on kill, it is easy to chain kill the mobs. 

The Sanguine Greatsword is the most adapted : the modal work for the SA damage calculation and because of the -17acc / Mohora Tanga (-27 acc with the modal, so -7 with Borrowed Instinct) the game dont crash. With the cipher's spells it is easy to lower the fortitude and be able to chain-crit enemies with Swift Flurry. 

This is theoric, I will try this today.

 

Edit : that didnt work as intended, in first neither HbD & SF give more damage to the SA proc (since HbD proc before the attack I took a look). In second, the SF proc with the SA attack doesnt generate focus, contrarly to regular attack + SF.

In third, the focus is generate in function to the enemy health (I dealed 800 damage to an enemy, with 200 focus back (their health)).

However, these weapons generate a lot of focus per hit. 

Edited October 19, 2022 by Constentin Lévine

[dgray62]

I'm a bit confused about the need for accuracy when wielding these weapons. On the one hand, you want high accuracy to crit, but apparently the game crashes if the accuracy gets too high? I had the crashing problem wielding MT in the main hand of a transcendent (with borrowed instincts). I was thinking of dual wielding Ball and Chain in the main hand and MT in the offhand of a steel garrote/forbidden fist votary. I hope that this combo would not crash my game,  given the votary's lower accuracy but perhaps it would, given the multiple procs from those two weapons. Any advice regarding this would be appreciated.

[Raven Darkholme]

On 10/18/2022 at 9:40 AM, Boeroer said:

Skalds gain +1 phrase max from one executed action (no matter how many attack rolls and crits happen during that action). So while a Skald cannot gain more than +1 phrase from SF/HBD and/or Mhohra Tanga, the chance for receiving that 1 phrase (remmeber it's only 50% of crits) is way, way higher. 

---

So, a self-contained Debonarie crit chain with Mohora Tanga is not possible I guess. For (self) Confusion you'd need a Berserker or Tactician and for Charming all sorts of enemies you'd need a Cipher or Chanter as second class. 

Excuse me if someone replied this already, but you can confuse yourself with any class using Rakhan Field boots with Street Sweeper..

I did it quite a bit on my solo cipher, but it was relatively underwhelming for what i tried back then, since you can't extend the confuse duration with your own powers and it's only like 20 sec duration.

However that duration might be enough for the Mohora Tanga Debonaire Tech since it seems to do enough damage to wipe out most encounters rather quickly?

[Boeroer]

Yes, I'm sure it's possible to become confused somehow in other ways, too (e.g. Berserker/Wizard in the party who casts Confusion while confused)  - it's just not what I would be looking for in a "cool" character build.

  

[Constentin Lévine]

1 hour ago, dgray62 said:

I'm a bit confused about the need for accuracy when wielding these weapons. On the one hand, you want high accuracy to crit, but apparently the game crashes if the accuracy gets too high? I had the crashing problem wielding MT in the main hand of a transcendent (with borrowed instincts). I was thinking of dual wielding Ball and Chain in the main hand and MT in the offhand of a steel garrote/forbidden fist votary. I hope that this combo would not crash my game,  given the votary's lower accuracy but perhaps it would, given the multiple procs from those two weapons. Any advice regarding this would be appreciated.

This is the difference between acc and Fortitude you have to look (Red Flag crit). If an enemy have 120 fort. and your acc is 120, then the crit chain , if happen, should be short. So with debuffs (FF >-10, might aff. from a weapon >-10, Devotion for the Faithful (stack with might aff. from weapon only) >-8) lets say 92 fort. Devotion for the Faithful also hit you, so you have 130acc. Here, your chain-crit have env. 0% chance to crash the game, and even with Entropy, it is still viable.

Dualwield Mohorain offhand is a good solution, whatever the classe used : each Swift Flurry attack can cause a Red Flag crit chain when in Mohora is in main hand/solo handed.

 But in the case of Votary, because you can have only +12acc as active and +5 as passive (aware), it is more easy to chain crit low-fortitude enemies without shutdown the game, than a cipher/wizard/ranger Monk can do. But even without any buff, for any classes, it is important to not have +100acc vs the enemy fortitude. Then, if you attack everyone excepted the weakest enemies, even with good acc it is nice.

I had some fright with my "well-prepared" rogue-monk because even if I attacked only the enemies with average-good fort., a weak Pirate have missed my character and triggered a full attack .. Fortunately the chain-crit only cause a lag. But my point is to not attacking anyone with solo/dual Mohora set, to keep the control on the situation. 

So in my concern, I m using this weapon only on "full-dps" character, contrarly to a tanky one that I dont really take attention, I carefully strike and move (Flagelant Path is free when cancelled before the attack on impact). 

[Boeroer]

2 hours ago, dgray62 said:

I'm a bit confused about the need for accuracy when wielding these weapons. On the one hand, you want high accuracy to crit, but apparently the game crashes if the accuracy gets too high? I had the crashing problem wielding MT in the main hand of a transcendent (with borrowed instincts). I was thinking of dual wielding Ball and Chain in the main hand and MT in the offhand of a steel garrote/forbidden fist votary. I hope that this combo would not crash my game,  given the votary's lower accuracy but perhaps it would, given the multiple procs from those two weapons. Any advice regarding this would be appreciated.

The game only crashes for me when Mohora Tanga's Rad Flag goes into an endless loop. It can trigger itself - so if your ACC is too high compared to the enemies' defenses it will crit - triggering itself which will crit... and so on. 

You want very high ACC and fortitude debuffs because of the bosses and late game enemies who nearly all have very high fortitude(game won't crash - or only very seldomly) - but you better switch to another weapon when fighting weaker enemies.  Only sometimes when I finished a big one I forget to switch and then *pouf - David Copperlane makes my game disappear* 

Edited October 19, 2022 by Boeroer

[dgray62]

Thanks for the explanations, @Constentin Lévineand @Boeroer. I can see how +100 ACC vs. FORT is the problem, since you are guaranteed to crit in that case. When the game crashed while playing a Transcendent, it was always while battling lower level mobs. I can see now that it is best to save Mohora Tanga for the tougher foes, and use a different weapon set for the mobs.