Brawler/Melee Build advices needed here :)

[Lonlon]

Hello guyz,

I almost finished my 2nd Deadfire playthrough (the 1st one beeing 4 years ago not long after the game released), this time with DLCs and exp-packs. I'm currently going through the DLCs. During this run, I learned a lot about the game and its mecanics (mostly thanks to you guyz ) but I feel like I have a lot more to learn so I aldready want to plan a 3rd playthrough.

I already have some ideas about what I want to play but also a lot of questions. I apologize in advance for the length of this thread and the modest quality of my english.

First of all, my run setup : PotD, RTwP, Community Patch +, All Berath's Blessings, PoE 1 Histories that allow me to get all the good stuff in Deadfire (Gifts, Effigy's Resentment, Legacy items etc.)

In my current playthrought, I chose to play a Berathian Priest/Helwalker as my MC and enjoyed it a lot. I play with Eder as a swashbuckler Tank, Xoti as buffing Priest, Aloth/Tekehu as ranged nukers, and I also have a Psion/Troubadour CC/buff/debuff bot custom character I bring everywhere cause it's really strong and a lot of fun to play with. My MC kinda play the role of the single target assassin of the group, and use mainly Spiritual Weapon with all the Monk's goodies (and also single target spells with high Might thanks to Helwalker) to do a lot of single target damage.

I loved this hybrid build a lot but it my next playthrough, I want to go for a more melee/weapon/brawler focused build (even though I liked the hybrid part of my previous build...).

Here are some ideas illustrating what I want/like :
- A reliable hitter : Not especially a heavy hitter but a MC that can reliably land things into a brawl. I hate when I spend ressource (and talents points) on a skill that often misses of doesn't do much in a fight (I have the feeling that I better use my points into passives that do better than active skills that often under-penetrate or miss... if you understand the feeling..) I know I have a lot yet to learn about numbers in this game but sometime I feel like some abilities (or even subclasses) are just not worth the investment..
- A kinda fast hitter: I liked Swift Flurry/Heartbeat Drumming combo a lot, but I found recovery time a bit too long with my build, I'm thinking about more instant recovery/faster recovery/action speed mechanics like the Barbarian ones maybe ? Chromoprismatic staff maybe ? Maybe Mobstance could fix that ?
- A Brawler: It means I want:
---> Extensive cleave capabilities. Things I like: Mob Stance, strong On Kill effects (Barbarian again ?), effective AoE abilities (Heart of Fury but requires SC and comes late), Carnage ? is it good though ?
---> Acceptable survivability: I dont want to take Eder's Tank role (I like Eder an definitely want Eder in my group) but I need to be able to sustain a bit, tough I'm ok with BDD/Salvation of Time strategy so.. I could be a bit squishy...
- Still a reliable single target hitter: I dont wont to be useless on bosses or priority targets even if I'm kinda AoE/cleave effective.
- TLDR: I want to trade the caster part of my Berathian Monk for 1) melee AoE capabilities, 2) a little more action speed, 3) maybe a little bit of tankiness 

I know the character i'm looking for is somewher between a Fighter, a Barbarian and a Monk but I dont know the good combos with these classes. Maybe a Wizard could fit too (enchanter ?) (martial enchantments seem really strong, also Draconic Fury Book...). Also Streetfighter seems really strong too, for action speed (and damage). But I can't fit all of these into one caracter. I need help

Explicit Questions :
- Could I be Devoted with Chromoprismatic Staff ? Is it a good endgame weapon to achieve what i'm looking for ?
- Is Devoted worth the subclass ? (I understand how the crit damage could synergies with Berserker but.. is it good ?) is +2 PEN a good buff ?
- I read that dual wielding Battle Axes would be good too (maybe because of full attacks and modal), what do you guyz think ? I dont know a lot of Battle Axes in the game (except Magran's Favor obviously)
- Playing Priest taught me the power of Spiritual Weapons an lashes in this game so, I was wondering, could Devoted/Priest of Woedica be good regarding the fact that you have proficiency with fists automatically ? Does it work ? Are Woedica Fists actually fists ?
- More open question : what kind of MC would you guyz suggest to achieve what i'm looking for ? 

Also, even though I like playing with companions a lot (I kinda need this in a cRPG), i'm now ok with the idea of bringing a custom sidekick with me as I did in my current playthrough, especially if it synergies well with my MC. (I loved having my Psion/Troubadour around during this run, was also a lot of fun to discover Cipher and Chanter, two classes that I had never played before.) (Psion is really good btw, for me : one of the best addition to the game so far)

Thanks a lot for reading
Read ya

[Kaylon]

Here are a some speedy dps builds:

• trickster/monk using Scordeo's Edge+Grave Calling+Fair Favor -> crit build with lots of free attacks from flurry -> high chance of Blade Cascade with long duration
• trickster/barbarian using Modwyr+Watcher's Blade -> reliable high speed + AoE dmg + free attacks from disengagement (use Barbaric Shout to increase the number of targets engaged and Ryngrim's Repulsive Visage)

Devil of Caroc's breastplate and Abraham pet can help your survivability while keeping your attack speed high. The rogue ensures high steady dps even if you crit less often or when you fight single targets.

[Lonlon]

4 hours ago, Kaylon said:

trickster/monk using Scordeo's Edge+Grave Calling+Fair Favor -> crit build with lots of free attacks from flurry -> high chance of Blade Cascade with long duration

Thanks for the ideas !

Juste wondering, what does trickster do in this build ? Defensive skills ? 

Also i'm afraid not having mob stance will harm the cleaving purpose of my build.. Maybe i'm overvaluing the benefit of mob stance comparing to carnage. I dont know what is the strongest between those two regarding my aims.

Do you think fighter/barb wont be enough for reliable damage ?

Also i feel like you need engagement in order to reliably cleave enemies. What do you think ?

 

Thx again

Edited May 1, 2022 by Lonlon

[Kaylon]

The trickster has access to Ryngrim's Repulsive Visage which is great because enemies affected by it stop attacking or run away (triggering potential disengagement attacks). You have also other defensive spells to help your survivability.

You can also try fighter/rogue, but you already have Eder. The rogue is pretty much mandatory if you want great single target damage.

If you want more AoE damage you can also try the classical berserker/devoted with Lord Darryn's Voulge - great AoE dps and solid single target dps. This build gives you Cleave, lots of crits and also Clear Out which works a bit like Heart of Fury.

[Not So Clever Hound]

16 hours ago, Lonlon said:

Could I be Devoted with Chromoprismatic Staff ? Is it a good endgame weapon to achieve what i'm looking for ?

Devoted/Monk with the Staff is pretty cool! You lack non Crush dmg since your backup are fists but it's ok except for some oozes IIRC.

16 hours ago, Lonlon said:

 Is Devoted worth the subclass ? (I understand how the crit damage could synergies with Berserker but.. is it good ?) is +2 PEN a good buff ?

It is worth it if you have a specific weapon build in mind / can use fists/Monastic training as backup Crush DMG / Play on PotD where PEN matters a lot

16 hours ago, Lonlon said:

- I read that dual wielding Battle Axes would be good too (maybe because of full attacks and modal), what do you guyz think ? I dont know a lot of Battle Axes in the game (except Magran's Favor obviously)

Battles axes are awesome because the Modal + multihitting with Swift Flurry/Heartbeat Drumming with high INT/MIG builds insane DOTs. Besides Magran Favor, the two really cool axes are 2 Handers - very cool weapons, worth building around especially Amra - or Vatnir spiritual weapons are insane but that wont help you for main char except if you mod.

17 hours ago, Lonlon said:

- Playing Priest taught me the power of Spiritual Weapons an lashes in this game so, I was wondering, could Devoted/Priest of Woedica be good regarding the fact that you have proficiency with fists automatically ? Does it work ? Are Woedica Fists actually fists ?

That's a good one - I'm not sure, I think the Woedica summoned fists are universal proficiency so Devoted wouldn't synergize. Woedica's fists are great with that being said.

17 hours ago, Lonlon said:

- More open question : what kind of MC would you guyz suggest to achieve what i'm looking for ? 

Besides what Kaylon's proposed and what you already have in mind, a Forbidden Fist / Fighter might be a great idea for you... I'm soloing one right now and might write up a little something on the build if it ends up really where I want it to be. Also, know that a Devoted/Berserker Nature Godlike with a +PL Food can get Monastic Unarmed Training easily to post-Mythic all the time and that gets very, very nice melee craziness.

[summatsupeer]

I dont really think about carnage, it's weaker than POE1.  Barbarians main pros are the crits, attack speed and resets rather than carnage.

Mob stance is good but since it was nerfed to only hit one enemy on kill its only one free hit (like barbs instant reset). Its good to quickly move onto next target but it no longer cleaves multiple enemies so much less AOE damage than it had.

To do good AOE damage you'd need a AOE weapon really as most of the best melee AOE abilities need single class to access and are later game.

[Boeroer]

A Devoted/Berserker with Amra (and Mob Stance) becomes an absolute beast as soon as you send skeletons at his side. They will get killed by Carnage + Amra's Riven Gore which will trigger Cleave + additional Carnage + Riven Gore hits. Dead skeletons also trigger Blood Thirst and Bloodlust. Do not put companions near him because if they get hit by Riven Gore and have lower than 50 HP they will get insta-killed immediately (as in: removed from the party and be really dead forever). Killing skeletons "accidentially" also triggers healing "per kill" from pets like Abraham and such and also from Triumph of the Crusaders (Priest spell) - so it's very hard to kill that Brute as long as skeletons do rush in. The best way to "feed" skeletons to him is with a Troubadour who chants "Many Lives Pass By" with Brisk Recitation.

You can also build a self-contained Troubadour/Berserker and produce the skeletons yourself - but you will miss the Cleaving. The rest (Carnage, Riven Gore, Blood Thirst etc.) will still work though. 

Works also well with Lord Darryn's Voulge - see Kaylon's suggestion.

A very hands-off and easy to play "cleaver" is a Fighter/Streetfighter. I prefer Unbroken/Streetfighter with a shield bc. of the additional armor and engagement - but stuff like Devoted/Streetfighter with a two handed weapon or dual wielding also works well. "Escape" into a bunch of enemies to get flanked and hack away - as soon as health is too low escape back out, heal a bit and work the flanks. 

[dgray62]

2 hours ago, Not So Clever Hound said:

Besides what Kaylon's proposed and what you already have in mind, a Forbidden Fist / Fighter might be a great idea for you... I'm soloing one right now and might write up a little something on the build if it ends up really where I want it to be. Also, know that a Devoted/Berserker Nature Godlike with a +PL Food can get Monastic Unarmed Training easily to post-Mythic all the time and that gets very, very nice melee craziness.

I'd love to hear a bit about what you're doing with a FF fighter, @Not So Clever Hound. FF is one of my favorite subclasses, but I've never tried that combo. I see another playthu on the horizon.....

Regarding @Boeroer's suggestion of the devoted/berserker brute wielding Amra, it's an absolute monster so long as you have companions summoning skellies for you. But be sure to keep your companions ranged and at a distance, and be extra careful on ship battles, as you can permanently kill companions and ship crew with this build.

[Lonlon]

First of all thanks for all the answers and advices.
 

7 hours ago, Kaylon said:

If you want more AoE damage you can also try the classical berserker/devoted with Lord Darryn's Voulge - great AoE dps and solid single target dps. This build gives you Cleave, lots of crits and also Clear Out which works a bit like Heart of Fury.

Do you bind Lord Darryn's Voulge with Barb or Fighter with this build ? (Barb = AoE disoriented effet, Fighter = Random Storm spell 1/encounter when going under 50% HP)

 

5 hours ago, Not So Clever Hound said:

Battles axes are awesome because the Modal + multihitting with Swift Flurry/Heartbeat Drumming with high INT/MIG builds insane DOTs. Besides Magran Favor, the two really cool axes are 2 Handers - very cool weapons, worth building around especially Amra - or Vatnir spiritual weapons are insane but that wont help you for main char except if you mod.

I'd be curious to know what build(s) exploits this mechanic the most. How does it work ? Does every application of the DoT add its damage to the existing ones while refreshing the duration ? I dont know a lot about DoTs in this game...

 

5 hours ago, Not So Clever Hound said:

That's a good one - I'm not sure, I think the Woedica summoned fists are universal proficiency so Devoted wouldn't synergize. Woedica's fists are great with that being said.

I tried, do not work  it's a shame Woedica's Fists have no weapon type. I guess it would have been way too strong with Monks. but no proficency cuts a lot of build possibilities (especially with Fighter involved)

 

5 hours ago, Not So Clever Hound said:

Besides what Kaylon's proposed and what you already have in mind, a Forbidden Fist / Fighter might be a great idea for you... I'm soloing one right now and might write up a little something on the build if it ends up really where I want it to be.

Sweet, hope it does ! But I think I will dodge Monk for my next playthrough  
 

 

4 hours ago, summatsupeer said:

To do good AOE damage you'd need a AOE weapon really as most of the best melee AOE abilities need single class to access and are later game.

I begin to figure it out. That be the kind of info I was looking for here, thanks !

 

 

3 hours ago, Boeroer said:

A Devoted/Berserker with Amra (and Mob Stance) becomes an absolute beast as soon as you send skeletons at his side. They will get killed by Carnage + Amra's Riven Gore which will trigger Cleave + additional Carnage + Riven Gore hits. Dead skeletons also trigger Blood Thirst and Bloodlust. Do not put companions near him because if they get hit by Riven Gore and have lower than 50 HP they will get insta-killed immediately (as in: removed from the party and be really dead forever). Killing skeletons "accidentially" also triggers healing "per kill" from pets like Abraham and such and also from Triumph of the Crusaders (Priest spell) - so it's very hard to kill that Brute as long as skeletons do rush in. The best way to "feed" skeletons to him is with a Troubadour who chants "Many Lives Pass By" with Brisk Recitation.

Seems real fun  
- To avoid perma-killing your friends, is it possible to use Wanton Gore instead of Riven Gore ? 33% weapon damage seems almost equivalent to 50 dmg in a good case scenario. Or am I missing something ?
- Would you use weapon modal with this build ?
- Also, how do you go over 25 MIG consistently without sacrificing INT, DEX and PER ? I'm sure it's easy if you do the maths (did not bother yet) but... is it ?
- Comparing to Lord Darryn's Voulge, what would be the pros and what would be the cons ?



Many thanks again for all these answers guys  Much appreciated 
 

 

 

Edited May 1, 2022 by Lonlon

[summatsupeer]

I dislike the getting bonuses from killing your own summons which limits what i've tried and can suggest.  I think this build would benefit from it but doesn't need it, it just takes you longer to get going and against "boss" enemies with no weak enemies it can be harder.

Ravager - Beserker + Nalpazca  

Can self-buff Might, Dex, Action Speed, Crit Chance, Pen, Int, Con... the only thing you can't improve (except for drugs/potion) is Perception/Accuracy (Monk "can" but need to not get hit or you lose it).  A Priest can fill that Perception hole for you.  Just need to make sure you keep healing that Beserker damage. Xoti is a great support Priest for this character, Triumph of the Crusaders is a personal favourite.

There's a lot of synergies between them, monk wants Crits and Barbarian boosts crit rate and damage, plus lots of others interesting combinations: 

• Frenzy gives 30% hit to crit rate and so many of the Monks abilities give you something on crit.
• Enlightened Agony can remove the Confused affliction. 
• Stunning Surge if it crits refunds the cost and the stunned affliction gives defensive penalties. 
• The free wound generation from Nalpazca drug taking can feed Torments Reach (+25% bonus damage + foe AOE damage & stun). 
• Bloody Slaughter increases hit to crit chance and crit damage to help finish enemies off under 25% health, especially when combined with Frenzy and the Monks Swift Furry and Heartbeat Drumming to then trigger your on kill abilities. 
• Enervating Blows to apply Weakened on crit, that lowers Fortitude so more likely to get stun on Stunning Surge.   You might take Brute Force because of this if you have a spare point.

Weapons?  A lot of the monk abilities are Primary Attack so a two handed weapon could work well, single target or AOE:

• Oathbreaker with Scales of Justice can add a bit of AOE damage on kill. An axe so gets bonus Crit damage. 
• Amra has AOE but it hits friendlies so need to be careful.  An axe so gets bonus Crit damage. 
• Karaboru is an interesting one as it has a chance of AOE damage on crit. 
• Whispers of the Endless Paths is an obvious one for VS groups but will want a good 2nd option vs a single target.   
• Wahai Poraga is a good early option but its another AOE that can hit friendlies. 
• Lord Darryns Voulge is interesting as I believe Carnage applies the stacking effect. 

Duel Wield is also a good option since both attacks have the chance of triggering the extra hit on crit.  The Tuotilo's Palm shield is classed as second weapon so can add a bit of damage on Full Attacks and has Transcendent Suffering applied so the damage scales whilst you have the defense of a small shield plus the option of the small shield modal to boost your accuracy.  Maybe Sun and Moon with its double hits would work well giving another chance of the extra attack on crit.

When I played this character I just used fists or Sabres, looking at these options I want to try it again!

Edited May 1, 2022 by summatsupeer

[dgray62]

1 hour ago, Lonlon said:

Do you bind Lord Darryn's Voulge with Barb or Fighter with this build ? (Barb = AoE disoriented effet, Fighter = Random Storm spell 1/encounter when going under 50% HP)

That's a tough call. I'd say overall your probably better with the barb for the reliable and nice CC whenever static thunder procs. As for the fighter, it's a bit less reliable since in many fights you'll never dip below 50% health. On the other hand, it will be better if go with zerker on the barb side.

[Not So Clever Hound]

7 hours ago, Lonlon said:

I'd be curious to know what build(s) exploits this mechanic the most. How does it work ? Does every application of the DoT add its damage to the existing ones while refreshing the duration ?

Every application creates its own raw DoT stack, so you can very quickly absolutely doom an enemy.  from a sheer devastation PoV, I think Streetfighter/Helwalker would be the best. Of note, a Wizard/Helwalker or Wizard/Streetfighter can permasteal Vatnir's spiritual weapons with Minor Grimoire Imprint, and that is something .

7 hours ago, Lonlon said:

I tried, do not work  it's a shame Woedica's Fists have no weapon type. I guess it would have been way too strong with Monks.

Yes they got hit by the nerf bat really hard because they were enabling stupidly powerful multis...

[Boeroer]

You can enchant Amra with Wanton Gore instead of Riven Gore to avoid killing companions, but the trick with Riven Gore is that it kills everything with less than 50HP on the spot - and Many Lives skeletons do have less than 50 HP...

So Wanton Gore would be less effective - but it would still work.

Another way to prevent the killing of companions is to quickly switch to Modwyr (and back to Amra) in order to remove the confusion (or use any other method to remove confusion). Then you won't do any friendly fire anymore. Will also end the skelli-kill-cycle, but better than having to reload because you lost a companion I think.

---

I would bind Lord Darryn's Voulge to the Barbarian because a "passive" Disorient is cool imo (keep in mind it contains Flanked which means -10 deflection and -1 AR!) and useful for unlocking Deathblows for fellow Rogues. Combine with Spirit Frenzy for a "passive" stagger (works with Static Thunder, too) and be a CC/debuffer guy on top of being a damage dealer. 

[Boeroer]

By the way: Swift Flurry/Heartbeat Drumming work very well with weapons which do multiple hit rolls with one attack. 

Any attack that can proc SF/HBD will lead to rolls with your main weapon. That means that an offhand crit attack (for example with Tuotilo's Palm) that triggers SF/HBD will proc main hand attacks. This is important because it means you should put the weapon that has a higher chance of doing a crit into the main hand. 

Sun & Moon is especially good here for the main hand because it does two hit rolls with its two flail heads. Both of them can crit and proc SF/HBD which will proc the two flail head attacks again (!) which increases the chance for a crit chain a lot. In addition to that the enchantments that may repeat a fire or frost attack also work with the flail heads --> even more chances to proc a chain of crits.

Another weapon is Saru Sichr. Its DoT enchantment does a separate roll vs. Fortitude that can crit and counts as melee weapon attack that can proc SF/HBD. It's kind of working like Sun & Moon's dual heads, only that one attack roll is the normal weapon dmg and the second is the DoT. Because you can use the Morning Star modal to lower Fortitude, the chance to land crits is significantly increased (because the DoT targets fortitude naturally), but especially if you use an initial attack that targets fortitude as well - for example Force of Anguish or Skyward Kick (or Mule Kick and so on - or use Brute Force of the Barb to always target fortitude as long as it's lower than deflection - you get the idea).

This setup will not produce as many crit chains as Sun & Moon + offhand weapon, but in my experience it procs a LOT more than with other two handed weapons. Also the DoT stacks like Bleedings Cuts and adds a lot more dps than one might think. Unfortunately it doesn't work against poison-immune foes. Still, Morning Stars have pierce/crush dang which is an awesome combo - the modal is very useful and the PEN is great, too. 

I can see a nice Monk/Fighter or Monk/Barb build with it. 

I'm using it on my SC Monk Xoti atm (used Sun & Moon + Tuotilo's Palm in a run before) and it's great. But admittedly I value the Morning Star modal so highly that I might be biased when it comes to a comparison between flails and morning stars.

Of course Sun & Moon + T's Palm makes you more sturdy (Balanced Shield is an awesome enchantment).

I'm sure there might me other weapons that work similarly and/or are well suited for a SF/HBD build (Rännig's Wrath, Spider Fang etc.) - those two above are also accessible pretty early which is a big plus imo. Well, R's Wrath can also get picked up quite early, but I guess a Rapier isn't really a "cleaving weapon" - I mean from a "vibes" standpoint.

Edited May 2, 2022 by Boeroer

[Kaylon]

6 hours ago, Lonlon said:

Do you bind Lord Darryn's Voulge with Barb or Fighter with this build ? (Barb = AoE disoriented effet, Fighter = Random Storm spell 1/encounter when going under 50% HP)

Bind it to the barb without any hesitation - Disoriented means -10deflection, -1AR, -5per, +50% recovery which helps the entire party, not just you. Pick also Spirit Frenzy for more AoE debuffs.

Lord Darryn's Voulge is a great weapon overall with just one drawback - it can't be enchanted over superb. However the berserker/devoted bonuses to penetration, the disoriented debuff and the dual damage ensure you will never ever need to switch weapons.

Now the good things:

• LDD can be obtained basically as soon as you leave Port Maje
• the static charges are applied with every hit (carnage included) and are triggered on crit (which you will do very often) - that's basically like +10shock AoE damage on top of your carnage
• the Bolting Strikes proc is great - it triggers very easily and gives you +15% spd (stacks with all your spd buffs) and +15% shock dmg
• the shock damage and the fact you will crit a lot will help you overpenetrate very often

The berserker/devoted is a crit build (crit bonus from Frenzy and from Disciplined Strikes stack) and it's a good thing to use items with procs triggering on crits (like Boltcatchers, Left Hand of the Obscured, etc). 

PS. The berserker has a pretty harsh self damage - especially at higher levels. To make things go smoothly there are a few key items which can help you completely negate the self damage (coupled with the Rapid Recovery of the fighter) - Devil of Caroc's Breatplate (removes confusion and regenerates health on crits), Three Trolls Stiched, Voidward, Ring of Greater Regeneration, Bone Setter's Torc/Footprints of Ahu Taka... Also a nice and easy helmet to get for this build is the Helm of the Falcon.

[Lonlon]

21 hours ago, summatsupeer said:

Ravager - Beserker + Nalpazca

And now I'm tempted to roll monk again  damn you, though I dont like Nalpazca so I would go for Helwalker instead

 

14 hours ago, Not So Clever Hound said:

Of note, a Wizard/Helwalker or Wizard/Streetfighter can permasteal Vatnir's spiritual weapons with Minor Grimoire Imprint, and that is something .

Wow..  this information opens an all new world in the thirst-for-fun-and-intricate-builds part of my brain..  maybe for another run 

 

13 hours ago, Boeroer said:

Another way to prevent the killing of companions is to quickly switch to Modwyr (and back to Amra) in order to remove the confusion (or use any other method to remove confusion). Then you won't do any friendly fire anymore. Will also end the skelli-kill-cycle, but better than having to reload because you lost a companion I think.

Ok so confusion is "needed" with this strategy to be able to cleave the skellies right ? So no Devil of Caroc BP with this

 

13 hours ago, Boeroer said:

Another weapon is Saru Sichr. Its DoT enchantment does a separate roll vs. Fortitude that can crit and counts as melee weapon attack that can proc SF/HBD. It's kind of working like Sun & Moon's dual heads, only that one attack roll is the normal weapon dmg and the second is the DoT. Because you can use the Morning Star modal to lower Fortitude, the chance to land crits is significantly increased (because the DoT targets fortitude naturally), but especially if you use an initial attack that targets fortitude as well - for example Force of Anguish or Skyward Kick (or Mule Kick and so on - or use Brute Force of the Barb to always target fortitude as long as it's lower than deflection - you get the idea).

This setup will not produce as many crit chains as Sun & Moon + offhand weapon, but in my experience it procs a LOT more than with other two handed weapons. Also the DoT stacks like Bleedings Cuts and adds a lot more dps than one might think. Unfortunately it doesn't work against poison-immune foes. Still, Morning Stars have pierce/crush dang which is an awesome combo - the modal is very useful and the PEN is great, too. 

I can see a nice Monk/Fighter or Monk/Barb build with it. 

I'm using it on my SC Monk Xoti atm (used Sun & Moon + Tuotilo's Palm in a run before) and it's great. But admittedly I value the Morning Star modal so highly that I might be biased when it comes to a comparison between flails and morning stars.

Do you mean the dot instance is considered a hit and can crit therefore proccing SF/HBD ? Seems strong indeed. Monk again... 

 

12 hours ago, Kaylon said:

Bind it to the barb without any hesitation - Disoriented means -10deflection, -1AR, -5per, +50% recovery which helps the entire party, not just you. Pick also Spirit Frenzy for more AoE debuffs.

Lord Darryn's Voulge is a great weapon overall with just one drawback - it can't be enchanted over superb. However the berserker/devoted bonuses to penetration, the disoriented debuff and the dual damage ensure you will never ever need to switch weapons.

Now the good things:

• LDD can be obtained basically as soon as you leave Port Maje
• the static charges are applied with every hit (carnage included) and are triggered on crit (which you will do very often) - that's basically like +10shock AoE damage on top of your carnage
• the Bolting Strikes proc is great - it triggers very easily and gives you +15% spd (stacks with all your spd buffs) and +15% shock dmg
• the shock damage and the fact you will crit a lot will help you overpenetrate very often

The berserker/devoted is a crit build (crit bonus from Frenzy and from Disciplined Strikes stack) and it's a good thing to use items with procs triggering on crits (like Boltcatchers, Left Hand of the Obscured, etc). 

PS. The berserker has a pretty harsh self damage - especially at higher levels. To make things go smoothly there are a few key items which can help you completely negate the self damage (coupled with the Rapid Recovery of the fighter) - Devil of Caroc's Breatplate (removes confusion and regenerates health on crits), Three Trolls Stiched, Voidward, Ring of Greater Regeneration, Bone Setter's Torc/Footprints of Ahu Taka... Also a nice and easy helmet to get for this build is the Helm of the Falcon.

I think it's quite the flavor i'm looking for. I want the barbarian theme for sure and this weapons fits it. Also the debuffing and elemental damage part of the weapon (and spirit frenzy) goes along the savage Barbarian aspect, I like it.
I'm still just a bit hesitant on the devoted part : playing with the same weapon all the game could be boring maybe.. But Fighter feels nice, and I'm not sure I want to go monk again.. 


Thanks everyone for the insight.

So it will be Devoted/Berserker (with Voulge) or Helwalker/Berserker (with Amra/Voulge/or any strong weapon that could fit in).. Any sharp pros and cons before I take my decision ? 

Also I'm now wondering how I should build this regarding attributes, do I need high INT and high MIG as a devoted/berserker ?

Edited May 2, 2022 by Lonlon

[Kaylon]

1 hour ago, Lonlon said:

Also I'm now wondering how I should build this regarding attributes, do I need high INT and high MIG as a devoted/berserker ?

The conservative approach is to dump completely resolve, keep constitution and dex at 10 and spread the rest of points between might, intellect and perception. A more aggressive approach (especially if you play with +2 all stats from Berath and stack resting bonuses) is to dump also constitution and pick later Tough ability.

[Boeroer]

1 hour ago, Lonlon said:

Do you mean the dot instance is considered a hit and can crit therefore proccing SF/HBD ? 

Yes

[summatsupeer]

4 hours ago, Lonlon said:

And now I'm tempted to roll monk again  damn you, though I dont like Nalpazca so I would go for Helwalker instead

That could be a bit hard due to Helwalker taking more damage per wound, which I think affects the self damage you take from the Barbarians Berserker Frenzy.  In addition I think the +10 Might would also increase the Berserkers Frenzy self damage as Might is applied to the damage frenzy does to yourself.  Then when enemies attack you, being a Barbarian means your Deflection starts lower so your going to get hit and then hard because of Helwalker.   Maybe a better player could make this work but personally I think Helwalker is easiest to use for ranged builds.

I'd suggest Shattered Pillar instead of Helwalker if you really don't want Nalpazca, the penalty is in effect just "less bonus" of +5 INT & 10% Fire Dmg Lash instead of +10 and 20%.  INT is handy for a bit more AOE on Carnage and the monks abilities (Torments Reach) but I think the extra duration on your abilities is the biggest benefit plus longer afflictions on enemies.  Also on the plus side if no one attacks you and you are successfully attacking something then your generating wounds.

The other option of Forbidden Fist i'm not sure if it would work in the style you want as you really need high RES for that subclass. It feels more like a tank build to me when I have high RES, though still does good damage.  There are some tricks to gain wounds, which then can heal your Frenzy self-damage but thats not really my style so someone else would be better explaining them.

Hence I went with Nalpazca as its simple to manage, passively gaining wounds regardless of what's happening and keeping your max wounds of 10 for the Turning Wheel bonuses.

[Boeroer]

1 hour ago, summatsupeer said:

That could be a bit hard due to Helwalker taking more damage per wound, which I think affects the self damage you take from the Barbarians Berserker Frenzy.  In addition I think the +10 Might would also increase the Berserkers Frenzy self damage as Might is applied to the damage frenzy does to yourself. 

Indeed. Berserker/Helwalker is a... daring combination.

On the other hand: the wound generation through the twice-boosted self damage from Frenzy is pretty fantastic, hehe... If you have really potent healing options in the party it can be quite fun to play actually. 

Forbidden Fist/Berserker with very high Resolve has the advantage that the confusion of the Berserker will no last long (especially not wih Clarity of Agony) and you can use Berserker Frenzy to gain wounds. And if you stack enough RES and not too much INT and also get some -x% hostile effect gear you can heal a lot from removing hostile effects like Confusion and the Forbidden Fist Curse. Nearly enough to balance out the self damage. Still a rather squishy combo though - but not nearly as squishy as Helwalker/Berserker.  

Shattered Pillar/Berserker is less cool imo. You will still get the self damage - but you won't get any wounds from it. That's a synergy not taken and I can't see many upsides of a Shattered Pillar to balance that out.

Indeed the best combo of Monk/Berserker is the Nalpasca. Wounds from Frenzy + wounds from drugs + wounds from Enduring Dance (potentially) is a constant stream of wounds (and works well with Rooting Pain by the way) without going down too quickly (like Helwalker). I think it also fits nicely thematically - drug infused rage and so on.   

Edited May 2, 2022 by Boeroer

[summatsupeer]

I'm playing the Ravager (Beserker + Nalpazca) build again but with the Lord Darryn's Voulge and its great! 

I'm using mainly Svef as the drug of choice since it gives +3 PER which fills the gap of the main self buff that's missing. Plus gives Resistance to Intellect, Perception, and Resolve afflictions
so I don't get Confused from the Beserkers Frenzy.  Don't need to use Enlightened Agony as often, maybe even save the ability points to put into something else, but it is handy to have.  Not like need more damage abilities, especially once you hit level 19...

At level 19 I picked up Heartbeat Drumming and Blood Thirst, the damage spike you get is crazy .  Wounds flowing in from the Frenzy self damage and Nalpazca drug use even if not being attacked. I have the AI set to use Raised Torment at 10 Wounds for the +25% damage, whilst it doesn't stun the current target it is potentially stunning the next target or those in carnage range.  Quite often when I switch to the next target I get two instant hits, i'm not sure if its because i've recovered normally and the Blood Thirst's free hit hasn't timed out or if a free Heartbeat Drumming or Swift Flurry has carried over. Its nice to make sure those attacks all hit and potentially start a new chain of crits so having the target stunned helps (paralyzed helps more).  Only other active damage ability I use is Barbaric Smash setup for <25% HP enemies.  The rest is passives, survivability and utility.

[dgray62]

If you're going to go for Turning Wheel for the +INT and fire lash, you don't need enlighten agony, since it won't stack with Turning Wheel's bonus, so long as you have another way to avoid confusion, which svef gives you. You may want the Devil of Caroc breastplate too if it's available in your game; it great armor for martial/martial multi classes.

[summatsupeer]

On 5/4/2022 at 8:47 PM, dgray62 said:

If you're going to go for Turning Wheel for the +INT and fire lash, you don't need enlighten agony, since it won't stack with Turning Wheel's bonus, so long as you have another way to avoid confusion, which svef gives you. You may want the Devil of Caroc breastplate too if it's available in your game; it great armor for martial/martial multi classes.

Definitely.

I think the biggest issue i've had is against enemies who have Arcane Dampener (Splintered Reef final fight) as it seems to cause the drug effect to run out, resulting in drug crash penalty that isn't removed when the Arcane Dampener effect runs out.  As Nalpazca that penalty is massive stopping all healing and losing wounds.  I'm not sure if Clarity of Agony affects Arcane Dampener or if it gets "suspended"?

Edited May 6, 2022 by summatsupeer

[Not So Clever Hound]

2 hours ago, summatsupeer said:

As Nalpazca that penalty is massive stopping all healing and losing wounds

I agree with you deeply and I know what you mean. But I would like to point out that this sentence at face value makes very little sense  

Seriously though Dampener + Drug Crash is a long-known, very annoying quirk. Besides very high Will, your best tools to avoid it are invisibility and mobility. 

[Lonlon]

So I decided to go for Devoted/Berserker, currently level 12 and I have to admit this is sweet so far. I'm really pleased with the AoE and debuffing capabilities of the build.

For my party composition I went with :
Eder : Swashbuckler Engagement Tank
Xoti : Defensive Support/Healer SC Priest
Aloth : SC Wizard (CC/Nuker)
and Custom Character : Kindwayfarer/Troubadour Offensive Support + also strong Healer.

I definetly think Xoti is the flex spot here, I could replace her with someone else but for now, Triumph of the Crusader and BDD seem too strong and synergise a lot with my build. In most cases, once my main char secures his first kill, he becomes unstopable, and those spells help a lot with that strategy.

For my devoted/berserker, I was wondering what gear I should pick :

Helm : Helm of the Falcon
Neck : Precognition (?) (Also help securing a first kill) (or maybe Bone Setter's Torc later..)
Armor : Devil of Caroc (I think it's a no brainer here.. immunity to confusion, more ressources for both classes..)
Ring 1 : Chameleon's Touch (?)
Ring 2 : Voidward or Ring of Greater Regeneration maybe (for now, self damage it's not that big of deal)
Feets : Footprints of Ahu Taka (?) (i'm not sure, maybe it's better for my healers)
Cape : Two Stiched Trolls (?) nothing else comes to my mind
Gloves : Boltcatchers (?) (fit the theme  )
Belt : No idea here, for now I use Ngati's girdle
Weapon : Lord Darry's Voulge obviously

What do you guys think ?

Also for my KWF/Troubadour, I have no idea what gear I should use. Should she be melee ? For now I use double scepters to keep her safe from my main character, and dual wielding makes the healing from light flames proc twice, which is super strong...
Any suggestions here ?

Thanks again everyone, really enjoy this run so far  
 

Edited May 10, 2022 by Lonlon