The All Things Political Topic - Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is an absurd one

[Gromnir]

5 hours ago, KP wants Blue Velvet said:

As a result, we're about to see a war launched against bodily autonomy and privacy from the conservative legal machine while the dems yell at everyone to vote, ignoring they control congress snf the white house right now

if you believe republicans want a war against bodily autonomy, you ain't been paying attention to the past few years o' antivax nonsense coming from the right, and you are ignoring the not insignificant number o' republicans and independents who naïve embrace a view similar to @Guard Dog with their belief the government's role is to protect their property and their "rights," and nothing else; all that annoying democracy baggage is selective ignored. nationally, republicans have been avoiding just such a war for decades 'cause it were perceived as a political loser from the 70s onward. sure, in deep red states where evangelicals hold considerable clout, abortion (not bodily autonomy and privacy) is gonna be a hill worth dying 'pon, but the republican party as a whole has been dreading the overturn o' roe near as much as has democrats. is why on fox news the new alito opinion is hardly being discussed and instead they focus on the leak aspect.

a legit complete apolitical Court woulda' killed roe decades past. again, roe were a shaky plurality opinion which satisfied nobody. as previous noted, rbg were the last Justice to sit on the Court who previous to appointment public criticized the legal basis o' roe. you kid yourself if you think none but rbg were equal critical o' roe until they became Justices, but precise 'cause criticism o' roe were deemed to be instant disqualifying a potential appointee, anybody with SCOTUS aspirations would suggest roe were established law but otherwise refuse to discuss their opinion o' the case. roe has always been political. btw, five o' the seven justices who voted with the majority in roe were old, white and male republican appointees. 

the problem for 2022 republicans is they most assured don't want a war on bodily autonomy and privacy which is gonna lose 'em numerous educated women voters, alienate libertarians/independents and galvanize democrats, but they can't have a roe "victory" without such a war. 

edit: CNN Poll: As Supreme Court ruling on Roe looms, most Americans oppose overturning it

story is from january, 2022. 

a majority o' those ~30% who were invested in overturning roe is driven by sincere religious fervor. when national elections turn on less than 1% in battleground states, otherwise fringe constituencies become disproportionate meaningful. neither democrats or republicans want this.

HA! Good Fun!

ps is worth reflecting 'pon why obama and the democrats didn't hold out for real abortion protections when they pushed through the ACA. democrats didn't want this fight even when they could win it, and for good reason... good but highly political reason. 

Edited May 4, 2022 by Gromnir

[Gromnir]

maybe belongs in the funny thread?

moving on, susan collins is either the worst judge o' character evar, or she is a liar. is possible both is true, but am suspecting her success in politics ain't due to her being improbable gullible.

and now

HA! Good Fun!

[BruceVC]

The objective of overturning Roe vs Wade and the GOP controlled states pushing this ideological view is based on several reasons. Some of it is unhelpful culture wars and the GOP pandering to this and some of it is a legitimate belief that abortion is murder. I respect that even if I personally dont believe it. This view is common in SA and many other countries throughout Africa  and the world 

I was watching on CNN pro-choice protests in Washington and all the anger and people  saying " we wont accept this "

But the US is a Democracy and a Federal system. I dont understand what their is to accept? If people arent happy dont vote for the GOP ....thats how Democracy works and we all have choices around who we want to vote for if we not happy with any political policy

I can guarantee you their are many women who support the Republicans and  they pro-choice but they wont vote for the Democrats because of what they consider are  controversial and concerning far left policies 

But end of the day we all have to accept the overall will of the people and if the majority of people in GOP states are fine with Roe vs Wade being overturned then Im not sure what anger on the streets is going to do ?

Protests dont change peoples ideological and political  views, they just highlight what people who are protesting already think 

 

Edited May 4, 2022 by BruceVC

[BruceVC]

I must add I have just heard a weak argument from some Republican commentators about the overturning of Roe vs Wade

According to them its justified because the word abortion doesnt exist in the US Constitution which is why the original ruling was unconstitutional in the first place

But surly when the US Constitution was first created words like gender equality, LGBT and abortion didnt really exist or were used so how can that be a justification to overturn R vs W?

 

[rjshae]

The issue with abortion will probably always be contentious because both sides make valid points. To me it's a technological problem; abortion couldn't happen without the use of tools. I'm hoping that some day it will have a technological solution, although what form that will take I'm not sure. A system to hold a fetus in stasis prior to implanting in a willing mother? Microbots to block sperm entry into the egg? Perhaps we should have a program to study the possibilities?

[BruceVC]

39 minutes ago, rjshae said:

The issue with abortion will probably always be contentious because both sides make valid points. To me it's a technological problem; abortion couldn't happen without the use of tools. I'm hoping that some day it will have a technological solution, although what form that will take I'm not sure. A system to hold a fetus in stasis prior to implanting in a willing mother? Microbots to block sperm entry into the egg? Perhaps we should have a program to study the possibilities?

Its interesting to me how some men in SA and on forums like Codex blame women for falling pregnant and say things like " women fall pregnant in order to trap men" and " men are victims of devious women  ". These views are more part of the culture wars and what I find incredulous is if you worried about being " trapped by devious women " use a condom and take some personal responsibility as a man. 

But whats your view on the whole argument that R vs W can be legitimately overturned because the word abortion doesn't exist in the Constitution. Does that make sense ?

[Chairchucker]

Dunno about technological, but there are a bunch of sociological - if not solutions, ways to mitigate/lower the rates of abortion. Better sex ed so unwanted pregnancies are rarer. Better social safety nets so prospective parents don't feel like they're choosing between an abortion, or having both them and their child live in poverty and/or starving to death. It's late and I should go to bed so I'm not gonna look up the exact stats but I think those were two of the bigger predictors of abortion rates.

 

Interestingly, nowhere on that list: the legality of abortions.

[BruceVC]

11 minutes ago, Chairchucker said:

Dunno about technological, but there are a bunch of sociological - if not solutions, ways to mitigate/lower the rates of abortion. Better sex ed so unwanted pregnancies are rarer. Better social safety nets so prospective parents don't feel like they're choosing between an abortion, or having both them and their child live in poverty and/or starving to death. It's late and I should go to bed so I'm not gonna look up the exact stats but I think those were two of the bigger predictors of abortion rates.

 

Interestingly, nowhere on that list: the legality of abortions.

Post some links tomorrow, I want to see if we missing anything in SA where we have a huge problem with teenage pregnancies from 12 years up 

 

[Gorth]

Politics, the gift that keeps giving. More politics this way